I am active on four online dating sites: POF.com, Match.com, AfroRomance.com, and SeniorsMeet.com. I will be posting periodically about different aspects of my online dating experience, but I will not be giving any details about the resulting dates unless the woman gives permission. There have not been any yet, but there would have been one if my mother had not gotten sick. No, it was not sabotage — she had no idea. She has dementia and is incapable of taking care of her self when she is sick.

In a later post, I’ll contrast those four sites and a few I rejected. In this post, we are going to critique the main text part(s) of my profiles with the aim of improving them and/or helping others create their own. In further posts, we will discuss other aspects of my profiles, strategies for men using online dating to find BW, and how to sort through the ladies’ profiles.

The following is the “About Me” part of my “Plenty of Fish” online dating profile. It is the same as the “About Him…” part of my  “Match.com” online dating profile except that one on Match.com doesn’t have the first and last lines, so it can fit into the 4000 character limit. Ignore the Green and Brown coloration for now.

Welcome to my profile.

Please, it’s pointless for women far away (more than 60 miles away from the Saint Paul, Minnesota) or too young (born after 1974) to contact me. Just don’t.

I am a kind non-controlling man looking for a long term relationship with a mature woman who is warm, curious, deep, nature-loving, and culturally different from me, but not rigidly religious. I like unusual people. Open to any race, or healthy body type. Totally unconcerned about height. I never had children, so I actually like the opportunity to be a step-dad or step-grandpa. You must like dogs, but you don’t have to be crazy about them.

The women I have connected with in the past have had these qualities in common: intelligent, confident, a little edgy, caring, adventurous, fun, sensual, humorous, flexible, independent and responsible. They did not look like each other, sound like each other, or share a theme in their interests or jobs. So I care about certain qualities, not details.

I’m a guy, so I look at the pictures, but I also read every profile carefully. I wish some people would write more. There are a lot of great women here. It took me a while to write my profile because I wanted to do it carefully and clearly. I see a lot of frustration in the profiles of some women, and I’m sure it’s justified. There are not enough men interested in serious relationships with women their age to go around, which gives them (and me) unearned power. Some of us men use this imbalance to play games. The rest of us have character.

I have a loving personality. This means I am affectionate, accepting, attentive, patient, empathetic, & loyal, plus I share sensuality. I am flexible and do well in novel situations and with people who are very different from myself.

I am intelligent (a little nerdy) and easily bored by routine, but I can entertain myself. This makes me interesting, but also lost in the clouds sometimes. I am adventurous when I get the chance to explore. I need my environment to change moderately often, and for my experiences to be novel once in a while, but I am constant in my personal relationships. I have five happy dogs and love dogs of all kinds.

Despite my kinda lumberjack appearance, I have been a feminist all my life, which merely means that I believe women should be empowered to the same level as men. This doesn’t mean I think women are the same as men, or want exactly the same things.

I consider myself to be spiritual without religion. You don’t have to be the same, but you have to be at peace with that, because it won’t change.

I cared for my grandparents at the end of their lives, and I have been caring for my parents for 5 years. Recently, my parents have become a full-time responsibility. I also have worked with disabled adults through a previous job. My mom and dad will likely transition to institutional care in less than a year, which will allow me to go back to full time web development. 

“The secret of [success] is sincerity. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
~~ George Burns

I am a master of the sincere soft sell, and more interested in you than me. It’s my natural personality. I couldn’t do a hard sell to save my life. So I might converse for a while before asking for a date. That’s because I am serious about this, not because I am shy.

A little truth. People who try online dating are people who have some attribute or two (good, bad, or neutral) that sets a barrier to connecting in the real world. Too tall, too short, overweight, too smart, newcomer, uncommon ethnicity, burdened with a stereotype, a certain age, nerdiness, too successful (or not), single parenthood, dependent parent(s), remote location, politics contrary to their surroundings,medical issues, introversion, quirky tastes, creative, disability, too busy, unusual spirituality, food restrictions, etc. etc. We are all dealing with our special circumstances. The good news: online is a good tool for us. The bad news: most of the people you meet will have issue(s) that you will have to deal with. If you are lucky, it will be an attribute you want anyway.

So be patient and honest with each other, and think carefully about what you can and cannot accept.

Thanks for stopping by.

My “AfroRomance” online dating profile breaks the same text into two sections. I put the Green text above into the “Who Am I?” section and the Brown text above into the “What Am I Looking For?” section. I also added this paragraph (taken right out of the “Interests” part of my POF profile) to the end of the “Who Am I?” section:

My interests: Outdoors, Dogs, Dining Out, Landscaping, Gardening, Cooking, Conversation, Travel, Chocolate, Photography, Wilderness, Science, History, Environment, Justice, Nature, Geography, Movies, Politics, Technology, Psychology, Medicine, Astrophysics, Behavior, Foosball, Trees, Reading, Public Radio, Activism, Hiking, Costa Rica, Africa.

And I inserted these two paragraphs, separately, into the “What Am I Looking For?” section to better target BW:

I desire an intelligent loving active relationship-seeking Black woman, or dark woman of color. This has always been my preference. I also enjoy the rich expressive voices and bold features most Black women have.

As a famous Minnesotan once said:
“♪♫ I just want your extra time, and your… Kiss.♪♫”

My “Seniors Meet” online dating profile breaks the same text into three sections, each with a rather tight 1250 character limit. This took some editing and some switching around to come up with these three essays:

A little about me…

I have a loving personality. This means I am affectionate, accepting, attentive, patient, empathetic, & loyal, plus I share sensuality. I am flexible and do well in novel situations and with people who are very different from myself.

I am intelligent (a little nerdy) and easily bored by routine, but I can entertain myself. This makes me interesting, but also lost in the clouds sometimes. I am adventurous when I get the chance to explore. I need my environment to change moderately often, and for my experiences to be novel once in a while, but I am constant in my personal relationships. I have five happy dogs and love dogs of all kinds.

Despite my kinda lumberjack appearance, I have been a feminist all my life, which merely means that I believe women should be empowered to the same level as men. This doesn’t mean I think women are the same as men, or want exactly the same things.

I consider myself to be spiritual without religion. You don’t have to be the same, but you have to be at peace with that, because it won’t change.

I am more interested in you than me. I couldn’t do a hard sell to save my life. So I might converse for a while before asking for a date. That’s because I am serious about this, not because I am shy.

About the one I’m looking for…

Please, it’s pointless for women far away (more than 60 miles from the Saint Paul, Minnesota) or too young (born after 1974) to contact me. Just don’t.

I’m a guy, so I look at the pictures, but I also read every profile carefully. I see a lot of frustration in the profiles of some women. There are not enough men interested in serious relationships to go around, which gives them (and me) unearned power. Some of us men use this imbalance to play games. The rest of us have character.

I am a kind non-controlling man looking for a long term relationship with a mature woman who is warm, curious, deep, nature-loving, and culturally different from me, but not rigidly religious. I like unusual people. Open to any race or healthy body type. Totally unconcerned about height. I never had children, so I actually like the opportunity to be a step-dad or step-grandpa. You must like dogs.

The women I have connected with in the past have had these qualities in common: intelligent, confident, a little edgy, caring, adventurous, fun, sensual, humorous, flexible, independent and responsible. They did not look like each other, sound like each other, or share a theme in their interests or jobs. So I care about certain qualities, not details.

I’d just like to add…

I cared for my grandparents at the end of their lives, and I have been caring for my parents for 5 years. Recently, my parents have become a full-time responsibility. I also have worked with disabled adults through a previous job. My mom & dad will likely transition to institutional care in less than a year, which will allow me to go back to full time web development.

A little truth. People who try online dating are people who have some attribute or two (good, bad, or neutral) that sets a barrier to connecting in the real world. Too tall, too short, overweight, too smart, newcomer, uncommon ethnicity, burdened with a stereotype, a certain age, nerdiness, too successful (or not), single parenthood, dependent parent(s), remote location, politics contrary to their surroundings, medical issues, introversion, quirky tastes, creative, disability, too busy, unusual spirituality, food restrictions, etc. We’re all dealing with our special circumstances. The good news: online is a good tool for us. The bad news: most of the people you meet will have issue(s) that you will have to deal with. If you’re lucky, it will be an attribute you want anyway.

So be patient and honest with each other, and think carefully about what you can accept.

SeniorsMeet.com also lets you write mini-essays on your top three interests picked from their list:

Nature and Outdoors

If one goes deep enough into the wilderness, the sounds, sights, and textures reveal a world organized by completely different principles than the sterile and radically minimalist one we have created for ourselves. Intricate and vulnerable in each detail, yet robust and resilient overall. And this is why we find nature to be beautiful. It is profoundly not about us, and not according our schedules, yet nourishes us spiritually nonetheless.

Cooking

Food is both basic to well-being and fascinating to play with. I am an improvisational cook. Sometime I experiment to see if I can get unlikely ingredients to cooperate, or to play a minor chord with several spices. Everything is considered: flavors, aromas, colors, textures, presentation, layering, harmony, nutrition, pairing, sometimes sound. I am not a gourmet, just a very good creative cook.

Education

The only thing more fun than learning is teaching. I know my hard sciences very well. I am competent in history and geography. I manage in the soft sciences. I dabble in the humanities. My brother got all the sports trivia and celebrity genes.

So friends, tear away.

It’s been suggested that we release “marriage” from government, give it entirely & symbolically over to religious institutions, and use civil unions under law for all couples gay and straight. I would love to live in that world. Perfectly logical. Hell to implement.”Marriage” is an understood concept universally, even by it’s strongest critics. With thousands of years of history predating all the major religions and implemented planet-wide (with varying standards), what it means doesn’t have to be explained, and expectations in law and society are quite stable. Full faith and credit amongst the states, and almost perfect cross-border recognition between countries.

What is a civil union? A convention defined locally by state, or even county? A legislative construct that is redefined every time power shifts from one political party to another? A new form of contract that will need decades of litigation to settle it’s rights and obligations in law?

Civil union is too fluid, vague and vulnerable (reversible) a concept to be reliable in protecting (the main purpose) and enforcing formal relationships. It only becomes stable in meaning when explicitly tied to the extremely well understood institution of marriage. In other words, explicitly marriage by another name, or actual marriage. If anything, let government keep “marriage” and give religions their sacred covenants defined however they wish. And believe me, they will define differently from each other.

If we do not actualize marriage for same-gender couples, or something virtually identical differing only in name, they will struggle endlessly with an unreliable and unsatisfactory construct approximating what they actually want and deserve, constantly assaulted by legal and legislative challenge. They would be better off with a Ta-Nehisi Coates marriage constructed out of a voluminous set of piecemeal contracts and filings.

This is not a chasm we can transit in hops. Only a complete leap will suffice.

—

Original Facebook Note HERE

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‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad — Facebook note AND email

NOTE: If you reply to this [email/note], please say whether or not it is OK for me to quote your reply in a blog post I will be writing. I will be using an OPT-IN policy, so permission to publish will be assumed to be NOT given unless clearly stated otherwise.

Just a quick note. Tricia Rose‘s essay “Jay-Z – dropping the word ‘bitch’ doesn’t begin to cover it” implies that defending Black women against the misogyny of current Hip-Hop is necessary, but should be off-limits for White men (and White women?) because it would merely be another opportunity for White Supremacy to dismiss Black cultural expression and the value of Blacks themselves. I submit that the current apathy of mainstream society (read “White” if you wish) towards the protection of Black women is deeply implicated in the practice of Hip-Hop misogyny, therefore concern MUST be allowed to be expressed by White members of society. There are many such people willing to do so.

What do you think?

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Christelyn Russell-Karazin — email

I agree with you Bill. No way to I trust “us” to sort this out. Time to open up the discussion because it’s obvious there’s not real desire to seek solutions within. Frankly, I have little confidence of an attitudinal change unless there’s a widespread shame for it, so much so that perhaps the Power That Be will think twice about allowing all that filth into the music.

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Cher Smith — email

I’m In…Use my name, DOB, whatever…You’re free to fix any Spanglish, if any

This is like an arsonist offering a cup of water after the house he set on fire is burnt to the ground. Twenty-five years too later, go back to sleep Jigga! Those care about the legacy we leave our children children (not necessarily our own) have been trying to stop the bleeding and triage victims of this poison. A strange wonder how the word “bitch” and it’s implications did not cross Jay’s mind until the child he wanted had finally arrived.

And with that I leave this quote from Shakespeare’s “Romeo and Juliet”:

“O serpent heart, hid with a flow’ring face!

Did ever dragon keep so fair a cave?

Beautiful tyrant! fiend angelical!

Dove-feather’d raven! wolvish-ravening lamb!

Despised substance of divinest show!

Just opposite to what thou justly seem’st—

A damned saint, an honourable villain!

O nature, what hadst thou to do in hell

When thou didst bower the spirit of a fiend

In mortal paradise of such sweet flesh?

Was ever book containing such vile matter

So fairly bound? O, that deceit should dwell

In such a gorgeous palace!”

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Every statement from here to the end of this blog post
was a comment to my facebook note.
Some comments have been combined or slightly edited.

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V, the Great One

Limits are against freedom. Single words that some find offensive, no matter historically so is pointless. Words have multiple meanings, for multiple people, at multiple times, and uses. Intent is the key for me. I think it is discriminatory and a tad racist, to say it’s okay for some people to say it, and others not. There are power in words, yes, but in how they are used, in context, and in art. I have to regularly point out to my black friends (which is about 80% of my friendships) that they find being called a “boy” racist, but very quick to say “white boy” or “chinese boy.” I find that people who have issues with the word bitch, nigga, etc. have blame issues, believe themselves and others fall into stereotypes, limit the definition of racism to only institutional racism, and are the most limiting, exclusionary, and sensitive types.

Personally, I believe in free individualism instead of group association for identity. I believe in freedom of speech as an ideal. I put more responsibility for the perceiver to define and be free from words than the expresser. I am not weak enough to let words control me more than I command them. I choose what I believe, I choose to be free instead of jailed in what some people believe ignorantly to be “consciousness.”

I’d be a straight bitch if I didn’t let you repost what I said. So it’s ok.

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Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

Bill, whenever I hear one of these rappers, or anyone else, refer to ANY women in this manner, I’m reminded of Queen Latifah’s song, U.N.I.T.Y., specifically the line putting at least some of the responsibility on women themselves:

“You gotta let ‘em know, you ain’t a b*tch or a ho.”

As for “white” men speaking up, I say someone has to do it, to show women, especially black women, that they are not alone in fighting this fight. And to Carmen (above), who says, “Too little too late”, she may be right. But I would also say, “Better late than never.” Yes, you can quote me, Bill!

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Ic0n

Don, Your quote is perfect. Not only for hip hop related misogyny, but because even in this economy, no one is really safe, as everyone is one layoff away from living on the “wrong side of the tracks”.

I say this because as usual, unless it’s related to themselves, and their superior need for safety, no one is willing to hear it. The excuses usually claiming that its “wrong” to police the actions of violent criminal men, unless their victims lives have higher value..meaning they are white women or men. But this logic that crime is something that has allll these factors QUICKLY changes when the victim is not a black woman, and moral justice simply wins the argument. Don’t we deserve the same right that WRONG is simply wrong?

The truth is more powerful men standing up is the only thing that works against controlling violent less powerful me, and it also encourages other men to speak up in a productive matter. Even white feminists, the safest women on the planet, aren’t arguing that punishment for delinquents be carried out by other women, so who does Tricia Rose think SHOULD defend us? Or are, black women once again expected to “make do”, with no tangible advice, or weapons, and constantly dodge bullets? What tricia rose has naively forgotten is that “White men said so” brings credibility to the situation, where a black female voice only brings vitriol, anger, and more threats for assault.

Integration or total segregation (with men taking control of their immediate environments) are the only thing that have worked to stop crime, and I pick the former. And informed whites talking to other “conveniently” naive liberals, or more intelligent anti-crime advocates across the board works even more. But what works the most is MEN policing the actions of other men.

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[Concern Troll]

[withheld by troll]

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Ic0n

[garbled response to troll]

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‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad

[Concern Troll], But why resent WOMEN focusing on how this crap effects WOMEN and children, while it’s perfectly alright for you to focus on how it effects men. It seems you hold an unchallenged assumption that the focus of women should be on the plight of men. And just how often are men focused on the plight of women? You are so uninterested in the plight of women that it tires you to hear about it.

Attempting to maim your girlfriend, and especially not taking responsibility for it, is a perfectly good reason to boycott an R&B artist, eg. Chris Brown.

Ic0n’s statement was a bit confusing. I’ll try a stab at what she meant in those two sentences. The more complete version of sentence #1 would perhaps be:

“IF it is legit for a fellow White person of another gender to call out a White man on his racism, THEN is it not legit for a man of another race to call out a Black man on his abuse of women?”

Now, to edit sentence #2 a little:

“Does it take having white male misogynists on your friends list in order to legitimately point out that abuse of white women is wrong?”

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[Concern Troll]

[massive derailing and faux outrage]

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Christelyn Russell-Karazin

For the life of me, I can not understand how this conversation has devolved. Don’t worry, [Concern Troll]. I won’t come near you.

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Halima Anderson

Bill
I only skipped through the article by Tricia so I didn’t quite pick up that bit about white people staying out. I am lazy and I wont go back to re read the article so I am just going to assume it was implied as you say. Thus my response is this:

As always, black women cant seem to let go of the ‘black people working out their issues themselves paradigm.’ I call this their anti-integration posture and it is at the root of a lot of their travails especially in such a modern world of ours that is interconnected and linked in so many ways and as highlighted by this issue of the production and distribution of ‘rap.’

So to summarize my point: Black women and their hard feelings against whites and their deep ‘white resentment’ will continue to hold their emancipation in abeyance!

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‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad

‎Halima Anderson, gotta sleep sometime, but I’ll be back. Tricia Rose’s point about White men was in passing and not an important part of her article in The Guardian. I’m zeroing in on it, not because I want to make this about me, but because a huge source of leverage is being set aside. BW have been pushing against the misogyny of current hip-hop for decades, and continuing to lose. A tremendous opportunity was lost with the public shaming of Ashley Judd.

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Halima Anderson

Well bill this will be waiting for you when you wake lol!

I think we are saying the same thing just in a different way. You are talking about ‘an effectiveness model.’ I am saying that bw have yet to emphasis effectiveness over the emotionally pleasing approach of ‘we black men and women working this one out.’ I am not surprised that white folk are indifferent to the black woman’s plight here, after all they get shot down if they approach two feet. Many bw draw up rules of engagement that no white person can attain, very soon it becomes a ‘black issue’ for black people to handle!

Many bw are caught up in the notion of ‘the right way of doing things’, in this case I don’t know if it is really about the right way, or the model that maintains ‘my resentment and anger at whites and my brotherly affection towards black men no matter what’.

If bw really wanted their issues solved they could as you said, leverage the general community in smashing the hold of poisoned hip hop, but you see they prioritize maintaining the working models over achieving the needed outcome!

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Ic0n

[Concern Troll] go read http://derailingfordummies.com/ and play the “who? what? me?” game on someone stupid enough to care.

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Derailing for Dummies
derailingfordummies.com

You know how it is. You’re enjoying yourself, kicking back and relaxing at the pub or maybe at the library; or maybe you’re in class or just casually surfing the internet, indulging in a little conversation. The topic of the conversation is about a pertinent contemporary issue, probably somethi…
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‎’
Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad, sorry for repeat notifications if you get them, I had to edit what I said “A tremendous opportunity was lost with the public shaming of Ashley Judd.” I totally agree. She’s a woman of another ethnicity, so there was some protection of her, because her life is considered to have value… but it was a total disgrace the way she was viciously attacked. Hip Hop came out only 30 years ago, but anyone mentioning the violence connected with it now, or even touching the issue is left swinging in the wind. It’s a lonely fight.

You will notice that the black men against hip hop crime will be called “traitors” and “sell outs” if they are past a certain age, and specifically if they are successful (Bill Cosby giving the biggest financial donation to black youth in history didn’t stop him from being considered a sell-out because he didn’t “rep with swagger” and support hip hop). So, whites aren’t alone in that sense.

Likewise, black women who are just living normal lives against the message and with tons of proof of the tragedy causes (i.e. their relatives shot over sneakers, my fear for the lives of my own relatives who might make the wrong choice and “choose the streets” and so on)…all of us..really..are rendered invisible. So are black youth who don’t have enough bravado and “swagger” to turn on any pathological guilty whites….. and those are specifically feminists, liberals, and other groups you’d think would understand. Their guilt is connected to the plight of the criminal assaulted by cops, and not the hundreds he has assaulted, for instance. It is PATHOLOGICAL in nature, and pathological never makes sense.

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Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

Ic0n, I never understood the “Bill Cosby is a sellout” meme either. His most well-known shows have all-”black” casts portraying intelligent educated families. To call him a “sellout”, to me, is the moral equivalent of saying that “education is for white people”, which I heard many times. My response to that is the same as a “black” columnist who used to write for the St. Petersburg (Florida) Times: “If getting an education is only for white people, does that mean that not getting an education is good for black people?” Not an exact quote, but pretty darn close.

As for the issue of “gansta rap”, many of the lyrics are repugnant, yes. [Concern Troll] is in error when he suggests that a boycott will resolve the issue. It will take much, much more than a boycott, because the people who really listen to and buy into that “culture” won’t participate. The only effective means of fighting this is through education, IMO. I once asked a black friend, “Are you a man or a “nigga”? He replied that he is a man. I then asked him, “Then why do you keep calling yourself and your friends “nigga?” He said, “You’re right.” and walked away, but didn’t change his expression.

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‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad ‎

[Concern Troll], It was presumptive of me to reformulate Ic0n’s statement, but we understand each other pretty well. She was trying to make a flip-the-script point, an exercise in logic she favors.

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Ic0n

Totally Don, I appreciate your intellectual input on this as much as Bill. Bill Cosby reminds me of my dad’s sentiment on youth. Regardless of race, it used to be that older generations would tell younger generations about themselves… It was always that way, like fathers keeping youth in check. Now, to tell younger generations to aspire for something more than hanging on the corner is “selling out”.

Poverty was ALWAYS a good motivator (that is, if one doesn’t benefit or get privilege from poverty, as do many young black male youth). I think some of the vitriol shot at black women pursuing education is based on this. We were supposed to be excusing that poverty and “staying in the hood” were a matter of “cultural benefit”, and not segregation, regardless of the very alarming statistics, in which black girls are a target of assault or single-mother poverty or both. So to aspire something more than single-mother poverty and violence (even it that aspiration is ONLY to put a roof over your head) was always very threatening to the mainstream liberal opinion, which wanted to state that there were cultural reasons why poverty was a good thing.

Bill: “She was trying to make a flip-the-script point, an exercise in logic she favors.”

Yes, and your translation was precisely what I meant, but worded better.

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Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

Ic0n, Yes, I’ve heard that many times before. Those who promote the “staying in the hood” meme refuse (that is, CHOOSE) to accept the fact and truth that they’re promoting segregation. I hold up the basic premise of “Brown v Board of Education” as my first response: Separate is inherently unequal. And, like you and many others, I also point out that although the problems seen clearly “in the hood” are “hood” problems, and need to be addressed there, they are not actually being addressed there. A perfect example is the reaction to the young girl in the porn video who was ignored by that crowd, even while they sought to protect the young “men” (and I use that term loosely) who perpetrated that mess.

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Jess L Vallet

With the exception of a few family members and black (male and female) friends, any defense of me and the life I live has come from whites. When I was busting my butt in school trying to get to a post secondary education, I was a ‘sell out’ according to the vast majority of black students in school. It was the teachers and administrators (mostly white) who helped keep those kids from doing anything to me. For the handful of black teachers I had, they always pushed me to do better. They had heard the same taunts I heard.

Since I’ve been older and met (and married) my husband, he and his colleagues have been the biggest protectors of mine (and blacks in general). Hubby has no shortage of stories about some of the awful things his coworkers said about me and him. His friends won’t have any of it either.

I know I’m fortunate in having a circle (even if it is small) of people that look out for and protect me. I won’t take any bit of legit support (and care) for granted, and I’m surely not about to say no white people (asian people or whoever) you can’t help. I especially won’t say no knowing how few people openly support and protect me as it is.

Every white person isn’t evil, and every one that chooses to help doesn’t have an ulterior motive for it. Knowing what my husband goes through at his job just because he chooses to pick people to work on his teams that are best for the job and not because of race lets me know he’s doing it from a place of truly wanting to do it. He’s constantly called a “nigger lover” for putting blacks on his safety and audit teams, and there’s always someone trying to lie on him and get him in trouble because of it. He has never back down, and he won’t back down. I definitely don’t envy the position he’s in for doing it, but I truly admire him for doing it.

Especially after witnessing myself first hand how’s he’s been treated because of what he does and he continues to do it in spite of, how on earth would I tell him that he can’t help protect or defend me?

‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad, You can quote me, and you can message me for anymore questions…the thread has definitely gone a little crazy, and it isn’t all for the better either.

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Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

Jess, your post reminded me of Malcolm X. In his autobiography, he reminisced (sp?) about a “white” woman who had asked him what she could do to help, and he replied, “Nothing.” He then wrote that he wished he’d never said that.

I agree, Jess. I’ve been called that too, and worse (if there is anything worse) because of my preferences and my friends. I have a cousin who’s father disowned her because she was dating a “black” man years ago. My uncle was in the Klan, and I caught holy hell as a child because I questioned him on it. I never understood what the big deal was, and nobody couldexplain it in a way that my “child’s” mind could accept.

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Jess L Vallet

I definitely can’t speak to works en masse, but one thing my husband and some of his friends do is remind men about how/what would they feel if someone said those things about their wife, sister, mother, daughter, etc.

It stopped a group of black men from watching porn that may have involved a girl who is underage.

And regarding Jay-Z, he doesn’t get a pass from me just because his daughter showed up…you couldn’t quit saying it when you thought about your mother, your wife, or anyone else before your daughter? Beyonce’ is not cool for not checking him on this either.

I think what he did was largely to try and assuage his own soul. He definitely doesn’t appear to be doing anything that would cause others to act differently. He’s not advocating boycotts of artists who use the words, nor do I think he’s going to tell any artists on his label to not use it.

If he wanted to, he could’ve done what he did in getting folk to boycott Cristal, among other things. He has more than enough means to persuade others to make a change if that’s what he wants to do.

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‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad

To be fair to Tricia Rose, she may not be against White men being involved w/ countering hip hop, but mere complaining about the way most do it. I have to read her book “The Hip Hop wars”.

It’s one thing to say this about “Bitch” after beau coup income, but will Jay-Z throw $$$ at a changing the sitch? It would require turning his business model on its head. It would be war, I think, with artists taking sides.

____________________________________

Jess L Vallet

Yes, but he’s one of the few with enough means to do it. He and his wife has a fortune that could sustain any possible hits by him taking a different stand. Since a lot of people look to what he does as a model of what to do, I doubt he’d lose much if he made a legitimate change of heart.

I think if enough big artists got on board with Jay-Z, it would be a short lived war. Him, Diddy, and some other big ones get together and let it be known they won’t tolerate it…it’d be get it together or no record deal for you, and some of these folk are so desperate for a deal, what they’d do knows no bounds.

I don’t ever really see anyone with means banding together to do that (aside from the few who already do and get called sell outs), so I only spend but so much of my time thinking about it.

____________________________________

Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

Bill, do you really think it would come down to a repeat of the Biggie Smalls and Tupac scenarios?

____________________________________

‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad ‎

Don Rice, rhetorical war, not bullets.

Jess L Vallet, oh I see no chance of it happening in the real world. Leopards don’t change their spots. It would be like a few mob bosses deciding to reform the Mafia. Ain’t gonna happen.

____________________________________

Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

The problem isn’t that no white people have defended black women. The problem is that the ones who count in this bass-ackwards society, the ones with power and recognition, haven’t done it. I defended my black wife when she needed defending, and I’ve spoken up in support of human compassion regardless of skin color. And i’m not the only one. But those of us who do, don’t get any recognition except, maybe, in a few instances, in a strictly local forum such as neighborhood get-togethers. What I’m saying is that we need a new social and societal paradigm.

____________________________________

Martina Marty

I read this article and went back and read it again…If I understand correctly her premise is that if rappers specifically Jz agree not to use the word “bitch” in a song, then this action does not go far enough to end the disrespect of women. Well this is true. In rap video’s. called bitches and ho’s, scantily clad black and white females prance around in the video, showing their body parts. I call this objectification, where you perpetuate the myth that all women must be that way so individual women are not noted by males (black or white) for their individuality. They are just a body. Which means if you have no personality and are “just a body” I can do anything to you. You are not a person.

When starting off he was making too much money to care. I am sure, I would hope, his Mom did not raise him this way. So you give the public what they crave and now that he has a daughter he has a conscience, well he is getting older also…so wisdom and age. hummm On the flip side everything tv and media show little girls commercialism’s standard of stereotypical beauty. His action is a “step” a small one. He has the power and the money to do much more about this problem. I hope he does.

____________________________________

Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

As our society stands right now, and for the past almost 500 years, you’re right; as long as our society remains the way it is, we will always have racism. What I’m saying is that we need to restructure our society so that people can learn that we’re all people, no matter what color our skin is, no matter what our ethnic background is, no matter what our lifestyle is, no matter what our religious or spiritual belief is, and no matter what our gender is. Like I said above, a new paradigm.

Please forgive me for not being clear, but my wife passed away in 2002, so I no longer have her with me.

____________________________________

Don Rice – (NATruthstudent)

You might say I loved her more than life itself, because after she passed, I gave up. It took another special woman to bring me back from the brink. I’m not with her any more, but I give credit where it’s due.

____________________________________

Ic0n

‎Don: “The problem isn’t that no white people have defended black women. The problem is that the ones who count in this bass-ackwards society, the ones with power and recognition, haven’t done it.”

I agree toally 100% with Don’s statement here, and often, the ones who we SHOULD support in their statements are considered racist for viewing crime as immoral. A good example is that there are more black women who vote, more black mothers who work all day and do not want their sons to listen to the filth on the radio, and more working mothers who worry about their kids getting shot on their way home from school in gang violence, than the other way around. They are voting liberal, and I am liberal (well, I am anti-hierarchy) EXCEPT the liberal justification for criminal behavior so long as you isolate the violent animals in zoos and throw black women and black children in the cage with lions. But mainstream liberals being as spineless as they are, aren’t covering these issues.

____________________________________

_________________________________________

Blast from the Past!
Brought back for our current audience to read & comment on.
Originally published on June 19, 2010. _________________________________________

[Presented by Christelyn]

History can be a distasteful thing; and frankly I don’t like dealing with anything distasteful unless its vodka. That’s why me and the hubster can NEVER watch Roots together. Crap like that puts me in an “I hate white people!” mood, which is not really healthy since I’m married to one. I give him the side eye during those Kunta Kinte whipping scenes and then he looks back, befuddled. I guess I can’t blame him–his grandparents didn’t touch American soil until the early 1900′s. Until then, his mom’s side was stuffing their faces with potato balls and sauerkraut in Germany while his dad’s people where fighting over tickets for Chopin in Poland. My only comeback: “Well, your people picked Hitler!” But then it gets complicated, because the other half of him is Polish and they had their share of atrocities put upon them during WWII, so really, I can only be mad at half of him, and then feel sorry for the other half, so it cancels everything out.

Back to history. Truly it is hard to look at painful things that have occurred during slavery and segregation. So if I ask a teenager to put down his iPod for a sec to tell me if he knows about Jim Crow and replies, “Isn’t he a drummer from that one band?” my first reaction is to think homeschooling is totally back on the table. But then, I wonder…is that ignorance all bad?

Guest blogger, ‘Bill Drew’ Aabaakawad, a self-described secular humanist white guy with an interest in social justice, black women’s empowerment, and all-around lover of the melanin-rich, poses the question–is it better to remember…or forget?

— Christelyn

_______________________________________________________

by Bill Drew (Aabaakawad)

I have a dream too, much like Dr. King’s. In my version, Black & White citizens work through understanding & overcoming our differences and the history that produced them. I imagine White America finally coming to terms with their full role in creating our country’s defining tragedy, and Black America, having finally been seen, being able to forgive. Healing, in other words. Perhaps this is also what you have hoped for too. Is this too much to ask?

As much as the thousands of racial bloggers and writers have worked for decades toward these goals, it is not their demographic, middle-aged intellectuals, that is reconciling. The most successful populations in America at Black/White interaction are adolescents and young adults. Our current black and white youth are connecting, befriending and romancing each other across the color line. But theirs has not been a story of overcoming differences and dealing with shared history. In fact, our youngest people usually aggressively deny that there are any differences, or any history to be interested in. It is axiomatic in their ideology that “we are all the same under the skin”. This “End of History” narrative offends my personal dream.

Resolution or Absolution? Reconciliation or Nevermind?

I know where my instincts are on this, but should they be trusted? The “Great Forgetting” strategy is, after all, successful. Young people are dispensing with racism and leading the way … beyond Black & White.

Has America simply produced more history than it can consume?

Please, state your opinions and discuss.

Wishing you all progress …

— Aaby

This essay is based on a long comment I wrote almost 2 years ago on a post in “A Belle in Brooklyn” about the sexual politics between Black men & women. I have edited it slightly, but it is essentially the same. Belle’s post and especially the 125 comments by both men & women are quite good. You can see it all here:

From the Comments: He Said/ She Said

Here goes:

Okay, some real talk about relationship markets.

I’m going in. This is going to be an aggressive comment. Most of the men, and some of the women [at Belle's blog] are not going to like it.

 

╟─────┤WHITE PRIVILEGE├─────╢

This part will be easy, obvious, and seemingly pointless, but stay with me.

To avoid unnecessary clutter, I’m going to ignore other races, and just talk about White & Black.

1. In America, and perhaps all of the world, ALL White individuals are privileged with respect to otherwise similar Black individuals, essentially everywhere and at all times. You can come up with exotic exceptions, but nothing serious to challenge this paradigm. Perhaps some day this will dissolve, as I would wish, but none of us will see that in our lifetimes.
2. Those with the privilege benefit from it, rarely acknowledge it, never see all of it, usually believe they deserve it, and are not motivated to mitigate it. Endless rationalization is employed (sometimes self-righteously) by most of the privileged to deny or justify this privilege. Even theology is put to this task.
3. This situation is wholly a product of history, with no basis in essential differences between the two groups. The unequal relationship is maintained by control of the institutions and culture by the dominating group, which feels entitled to its power.
4. In addition, the dominating group has the natural advantage of numbers. There are MORE of them, enhancing the alliance opportunities of each individual.

 

╟─────┤INTERLUDE├─────╢

Pay attention to the underlined bold words in the WHITE PRIVILEGE section above and the MALE PRIVILEGE section below, they highlight the differences between the two sections. The words that are not underlined and not bold (most words) are the same in both sections. Notice that paragraph #2 is exactly the same in both sections.

 

╟─────┤MALE PRIVILEGE├─────╢

This part will be more uncomfortable and controversial, but still familiar.

To avoid unnecessary clutter, I’m going to ignore other genders, and just talk about Female & Male.

1. In America, and perhaps all of the world, ALL Male individuals are privileged with respect to otherwise similar Female individuals, essentially everywhere and at all times. You can come up with some exceptions, but for the most part there is not much to challenge this paradigm. I want symmetry to prevail eventually, but I doubt it ever quite will.
2. Those with the privilege benefit from it, rarely acknowledge it, never see all of it, usually believe they deserve it, and are not motivated to mitigate it. Endless rationalization is employed (sometimes self-righteously) by most of the privileged to deny or justify this privilege. Even theology is put to this task.
3. This situation is mostly a product of history, with some basis in essential differences between the two groups due to biology and psychobiology. The unequal relationship is maintained by control of the institutions and culture by the dominating group, which feels entitled to its power, aided a little by greater physical strength and less capacity for empathy.
4. In addition, the dominating group has the natural advantage of numbers. There are FEWER of them, enhancing the market value of each individual. This numerical disparity between the genders is much more enhanced amongst Blacks compared to Whites.

 

╟─────┤SYNTHESIS├─────╢

Now I bring the fire.

Black men are in the complex position of being quite privileged in one sphere of human activity — romantic relationships — while being quite disempowered in all other spheres of human activity. As ever with any human being, privilege is hardly acknowledged, while disempowerment is appropriately and loudly resented. But even if we give fair weights to both conditions, any Black man can honestly point out that that bit of privilege is clearly outweighed by the burden of disempowerment.

True statement … but not a valid excuse.

Because the victims of that privilege are the most disadvantaged, burdened, and unfulfilled sub-group of all — Black women.

So … what’s a girl to do? Well a little of everything, including some of the suggestions upthread [in the comments of Belle's blog]. But one powerful option to obviate the Black man’s romantic market advantage has not been explored [in Belle's blog, obviously you all are aware]. Black women can enhance their value not only by trying to “unionize” (one way of looking at holding out for more reciprocity) or dropping out, but also by partially or mostly breaking out of the closed relationship market.

In other words, open up some consideration of non-Black men alongside the pool of Black men. I make no claim that non-Black men are better than Black men. They aren’t. Neither do I claim they are the same as Black men. Their issues are different. But by being open, even with reservations, to such men, Black women’s oppurtunities definitely increase. And besides, if enough of them do so, their market position relative to the Black men will improve [the same point made by R. R. Banks in his book].

White men have their own good reasons for considering this too. Their market is much more tight as far as available women. Those men that are marriage material and open to crossing over will find more quality available in the cross-market.

And men, don’t be coming at me with “White men taking OUR women!” I’m not having it. You can’t own what you don’t claim. If it’s supposed to be yours, put a ring on it.

A couple of other good references on Black Male Privilege:

Yes Virginia, There is Black Male Privilege, by L’Heureux Dumi Lewis

An Answer to Black Male Privilege, by Dr. Lester K. Spence

—————

ARUGULA:
Single ladies, what are some of the rules you follow when dating someone new? Every new guy I date always tries to end the date with sex. I want to know if it could be me putting out those signals, or am I picking the wrong guys? I just went out with someone who I thought was great! He exemplified everything I thought was good in a Christian man. The entire date was perfect until he kept begging me to go to his house or he come to mine. He brought me home and kept begging that he could spend the night. The goodnight kiss was too much, like he was going to rip my clothes off or something…Okay, I’m frustrated…LOL…What am I doing wrong?

We really had a great time on the date. We went to the Olive Garden, drank Margaritas, had an appetizer, and then dinner. We were really stuffed. We had great conversation and he kept toasting me. The few things that sort of bothered me during the date was this:

1. When he got the check, he looked at it and raised his eyebrows like he was shocked at how high it was. The he pressed his lips, took out cash and put it in the check folder.
2. We stopped to get gas in his truck and he only put $5 worth when gas is $3.05/gallon.
3. We had plans to go to the movie and he asked if we could go to the movies the next time because he didn’t get enough money out of the bank because it was closed.

Okay, again, talking to him and getting to know him has been great and I actually had fun on the dinner date. The money situation and the trying to get sex bothers me a bit. What do you guys think?

During our convo at dinner, he mentioned that money wasn’t a big deal to him. Most people that say this will never be financially well off. I’m not saying I’m gold digging because I hold my own pretty well, but I do desire a man that cares about being financially independent because this is one of the main goals which I am working on becoming in less than 10 years. I plan to definitely be well off by the time my oldest graduates and I’m taking those steps to make it happen. I could see this being a conflict of interest with us because he seems comfortable. I think last night was our last date. He was really a nice guy, but I don’t think he is what I want in a man and I’m not desperate. And I can see him consistently compromising my morals and values.

I’d like to hear from the married as well…you are obviously successful.

NARANJITA:
You are dead-on with the “clues” – red flags. I would not contact him again or even consider a second date. See dating as a job interview. You are “interviewing” these gentlemen to see if they are worthy of your heart, mind, and body.

With the incessant begging to come over to his place, after the second “NO” from me, I would have cut the date short right then and there – period. I’m sure he would have been stunned. Obvious clue here is that he is accustomed to begging to get his way, and more than likely, the women giving in. He was going to beg you until you gave in. MANIPULATION – RUN!!!!

He drove? I would have called a cab – seriously. (I would always keep cab fare on me for “emergencies”.) In the future, you might want to consider driving separate vehicles to dates so you can meet at the location. I’m thinking safety here – for you and your kiddos. You would not want a potentially psycho date knowing where you live. I rarely gave my home address and for those who I did allow to pick me up at my home, it stopped at the door – I would not allow them into my home under any circumstances EXCEPT for that doctor I had one date with.

One rule in my dating was absolutely NO physical contact of any sort so as to not give the wrong impression. Not even a good night kiss. Movies to me were no-go’s for dating. All you are doing is sitting in a dark theater – with minimal interaction. I would have preferred a date where I could see him “in action” with some conversation to go along with it. Dates where my datee has to interact with other people are good for observation. Conversation is good, but action is better. People talk about who they are blah blah blah and use it as a manipulating tool, but you don’t really get the gist of who they are until you see them in action, with you, around other people, etc. So NO to movies.

You don’t say who suggested Olive Garden. If he suggested it as a date, then that would have been a good indication to me of his financial situation or at least how he viewed it coming from a dating perspective. To me, date location is a good indicator of what you will be treated to down the line. You may be okay with Olive Garden – not me, and especially not on the first date.

FINANCES ARE A BIG DEAL!!!!! He appeared to be quite flippant about it. You have goals, dreams, aspirations, and if “money [isn’t] a big deal to him” time to move on.

AABY:
When people show you what they are, believe them. That begging for sex behavior is totally on him. Best not to kiss on a first date, but that doesn’t mean you deserved being put through that.

Women look at dates as steps in a project. Men look at dates as individual events to be maximized for immediate benefits. The amount of cluelessness on men’s part can be staggering. Let me explain:

Men who pressure, or do other things that turn women off, rarely get past 1 to 3 dates with a quality woman. You would think this would drive them to evaluate themselves (see “definition of insanity”), but nooooo, what actually usually happens is they “learn” that women tend to evaporate quickly, so they INCREASE the drive to get “in” because they feel that if they don’t do this right away they will lose the opportunity to get some. Obviously this sets up a vicious cycle, frustrating both parties.

Most men will NEVER understand the INVESTMENT that becoming intimate represents for women. They really don’t understand why “friends with benefits” can’t be done along the way to falling in love for most women. Even those men who have learned to behave are usually obeying limits they don’t really understand, but they comply out of respect.

—————

Watchall think?

♪ Will you still need me? ♫
♫ Will you still feed me? ♪
♪ When I’m sixty-four? ♫

Obviously the focus of this blog should mostly be on young people looking to start families, but around the edges are few other groups we can provide support for. Like my group, the old farts esteemed elders. I’m 50 and childless, but open to step-children, and am probably not going to have children of my own because I don’t want a big age difference with my partner. Do I have peers out there lurking? But enough about me. This post is for anyone with a touch of gray, and those that love them.

When careers are over, or close to it, the retirement has been capitalized, or social security is about to kick in, and the nest is empty, priorities in selecting a romantic partner are vastly different. Likely companionship, common interests, health, autonomy, stability, medicare coverage, etc., top the list. Excitement, earning potential, fertility, hotness, religion, politics, relatives, etc., not so much.

Are middle-aged (or senior) singles more free to swirl? I feel I am. What are the barriers, or hang-ups, that might trip them up? Do the shy but loyal become hot commodities? Do playas become viagra junkies dirty old men as they age? Does the possibility of an erection lasting longer than four hours scare you? (Remember to call your/his doctor.)

Do you think your parent, or older relatives, are open to IR? I don’t think any of my older relatives would be up for swirling, except my step-dad.

Would you like to introduce me to your mom?

Wishing you all progress …

— Aaby

Throughout the comment section I hope we make distinctions amongst the various situations that might be thought of as Plan B IR. Besides the malignant psychology Cassandra had to deal with, there are many variations on this theme. BW who know they should open their options, but just aren’t that into WM. BW who are attracted to non-BM, but not as much as BM. BW who attracted to non-BM personalities, yet prefer BM bodies. BW who are open to MOC. Various conflicted states. My ultimate aim with the post is to encourage perception of the these distinctions so IR supporters can protect themselves from the damaged but still reach out to the struggling.

— A

I have a good Black female friend who is an IR practitioner and supporter that takes some exception to my recent post “That Awkward Beige: The Unbearable Whiteness of ‘Plan B’-ing“. She is not African-American, but she did grow up here. I’ll call her “Cassandra” since I have no friends with that name. This is most of her message to me:

I support black women, including AA women, who have interracial attractions. As for the other AA women you discussed in the article you sent to me, the ones who make it clear they’re ONLY attracted to AA men, I am firm in my decision not to support or ally with them and so are other black women I associate with (some are AAs). Those who want to are free to, though.

In the past, I actively supported even those AA women who have no desire for any man who isn’t AA. I saw the way AA men were trashing them on the internet and found it so disgusting and unnatural for any men to do that to women, and wanted to see it end. The main thing AA men were holding over AA women’s head was their single rate, so I thought it would make things better if AA women were married. That was a huge mistake.

Many of them stabbed me in the back. They were involved in “gender wars” online, and used interracial relationships, interracial couples and black women in interracial relationships like me as weapons in their battles with AA men. They’d hold up pictures and videos of us to say, “See, these black women have white men – we can get one, too.” We naïvely thought they genuinely supported us and our relationships, and were seriously considering interracial relationships, too. Some went so far as to claim they were “starting” to feel attracted to white men or to fake relationships online. One invited me to her “wedding” with a white man, vanished from the internet for months, didn’t know what I was talking about months after the supposed date when she reappeared with a story of a “Latino boyfriend”…and vanished again. They used us to help them and gave lip service to us and to AA men about how they’d “go get a white man” – but as soon as a handful of AA men said a few pretty words, they ran “home.” The “good” men claimed interracial relationships were “anti-community” and would stalk and harass black women (never black men) who were in them, calling us evil “feminists.” AA women would publicly reassure them that black men are “the best and sexiest,” and they’d never look at a white man if AA men would do better.

As poorly as AA men treat them, and as much as the AA women who prefer them carry on as if they loathe AA men and want nothing to do with them, AA men have their heart and loyalty. The ugly things they say in response to AA men’s attacks stem from hurt and anger, but they still want AA men. I’m not even sure this is really “preference,” because no one in their right mind could prefer a pool of men they say are mistreating them, don’t want them, are underachievers, and every other negative thing in the book. They say so many do it they can’t find a decent one in the bunch. Well, I’m attracted to some white men, but if I never or very rarely came across a white man who wasn’t a deadbeat or abusive scumbag, I could never prefer white men. Anyway, they’ve shown they’ll turn on allies in interracial relationships who stood by them when some AA men pull their puppet strings. One of my “friends” like this started secretly conspiring against and openly attacking me when I wouldn’t unite with the “good black men” she thought she’d found and forget about interracial relationships. When I told her I had no intention of dealing with anyone who trashed me for being in a relationship with someone of a different color, she thought I was making trouble and trying to destroy the “community” as those “good” men warned. Maybe she thought I should break my engagement and run to AA men. At some point, she realized those men weren’t good. She’d hoped and expected they’d defend AA women against the bashers and set an example so they’d change – but every one of them were friends and supporters of other AA men who were attacking AA women. They played the role of good cops to the bad cops. She tried to come back to me. I didn’t allow it.

Point two…most are wishy-washy. One day they seek me out and ask for help finding white men. I go to a lot of trouble helping and advising them, and they never follow through. There’s always some excuse: they met an AA man who gave them hope that AA men can be “fixed up,” they should be “fixing the community,” “still thinking about it,” etc.

Third, they’re always ranting about black men. I try to be supportive of their experiences, but it gets irritating when I simply show a loving interracial couple and a lot of the responses are angry rants against black men. I’m trying to show something positive and loving. That ruins the vibe. I feel more and more offended each time I hear some AA women talking as if men like my husband are chopped liver and inherently second choice for us all, assuming we all share these views. These things make AA males who are arrogant feel all black women’s lives revolve around them, since apparently we can’t even look at non-black men or date or marry interracially without thinking about them. These arrogant males come to annoy me with remarks about me being with “a corny white boy” because I “couldn’t get” one of them or because I’m “angry” at them. They never imagine that I’m attracted to my white husband, and that most black women of other cultures have zero interest in AA men whether or not we’re attracted to black men.

In sum, my mind is made up that I don’t have the patience to deal with these women. They got me involved in gender wars that have nothing to do with me, then left me hanging. They hurt us with repeated betrayals. They brought me nothing but frustration, problems and grief. Other black women who are ready and willing to date interracially are held back by those whose hearts or minds have serious issues holding them back. Those who relate to and want to help those women can do it. I have nothing to gain from that alliance. They hurt the image of black women in interracial relationships and make things more difficult for us. I only work with those AA women who have an attraction to at least one group of nonblack men AND open to overcoming their conditioning or grew up in diverse environments and were never conditioned. I can’t do anything for the rest.

That’s different from a person simply settling for less than their preference. Most go around trumpeting from the winds that they want only black men and that have or will settle for a white man if they “have no choice.” That’s emasculating to a partner, and gives AA males ammunition when they attack the woman’s non-black partner. “Oh your woman really wants me deep down. I could get her if I wanted her.” What man wants that? There’s already a stereotype that white men are sexually inferior to black men. Men generally want to be made to feel like men. You attract and keep your man by making him feel he’s the most masculine, the one who can best satisfy and protect you. You DON’T publicly undermine his manhood. If my husband went around announcing that he preferred white women but “had no choice” but to settle for me because he couldn’t get one, I’d feel offended. I wouldn’t even be with him if I suspected such a thing. I feel I’m top-notch and deserve a man who sees me the same. Those women would feel offended, too, especially because of stereotypes that black women are less desirable.

My reply, which might just show that I misunderstood her:

Obviously anyone who doing the behavior you are talking about is not worth investing in. I am thinking more about people who are sincere, but still carry an attraction against their interests. People can’t *think* themselves into changing attraction. Time and familiarity are needed, and usually works.

In your way of thinking, virtually all BW who grew up in a non-integrated environment are beyond reach and should not be encouraged despite what they may claim. Do you actually want to go THAT far?

My friend then concluded:

… I know AA women who’ve grown up in black neighborhoods, been conditioned, yet followed their interracial attractions. Their attractions were their motivator. … I don’t believe attraction to only black men is a liability. If I were only attracted to black men, I’d date black men or stay single. I’ve known perfectly decent black men who came from other countries (or the children of) and just want to get educated and make something of their lives. Some were friends. But that’s me. You and others are free to help those you have a desire and inclination to.

How do you all feel about her points? I grew up in suburban and rural all-white environments, and went to college in integrated schools. I really don’t have any direct insight into these types of Black-on-Black interactions.

Wishing you all progress …

— Aaby

]]> http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/the-drama-of-the-indecisive-swirler/feed/ 188 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/the-unbearable-whiteness-of-plan-b-ing/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/the-unbearable-whiteness-of-plan-b-ing/#comments Tue, 14 Sep 2010 04:00:06 +0000 Bill Drew ("Aabaakawad") http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=1114 Was interracial dating your Plan B?

(Read more...)

]]> Chris Karazin is interrupting this blog post for a VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: I know I promised Patti Wood part deux today, but frankly, writing the press release for No Wedding No Womb has my eyes bleeding. I know you’re all waiting with bated breath on the continuation of the elusive art of smiling, but I don’t have any brain cells left for today. In the meantime, I’ll bring back Aaby…since you like him so much. *stomps off like a petulant child, or Kanye West*

I’ll get to the smiling post eventually, or I may post it on the fan page. Otherwise, NOT TO WORRY! I have a fool-proof cure for a straight face:

Take it away, Aaby!

—————–
Aaby Aabaakawad

This is a post about whom this blog is for, and how inclusive we want to be about those issues with which Black women, who date the rainbow with intent to marry, may struggle.

Individuals embrace IR through a wide variety of paths, and from many different starting points. It is a process. Like any process, it takes time, and involves several steps. Those steps may not occur in the same order for everybody, and not everyone will complete every possible step.

One axis that any rainbow dater may be located on, I will call the “affinity spectrum”. Some will shift along this axis over time. At one end are what I’ll call “preference“ rainbow daters, who are attracted to other races or ethnicities more than their own. At the other end are what I’ll call “refugee“ rainbow daters, who are attracted more to their own, but believe that their life would be empowered if they pursued other races or ethnicities as a plan B. Somewhere in between are “democratic“ rainbow daters who are attracted similarly to all races or ethnicities, including their own, and select mates based on other factors.

Me? I am a White male who is a preference (for Black women) dater, but I think more often White male rainbow daters are actually democratic daters. Black women? It seems to me that Black female rainbow daters are well represented everywhere along the affinity spectrum. Preference daters are sometimes labeled as “fetishists” or “self-haters”, but not here at BB&W. Democratic daters are sometimes labeled as naïve “idealists” or “disloyal”, but not here at BB&W.

But the one group that some IR enthusiasts, even at BB&W, criticize are the refugee daters. Refugee daters may be characterized as “dishonest” or “disrespectful” in the way they deal with their plan B romantic targets, or “pitiful” for holding an attraction to those whom they have decided to distance themselves. Their prospects for happiness are severely doubted by their critics. I remember comments on IR blogs, or IR sites, similar to these:

“That’s so sad that [she] looks at White men as Plan B. How would they feel if they knew that. I have never looked at White men as anything less attractive. That’s just racist.”

or

“It’s looks bad to non-BM when BW hate on their own men or feel BM are inferior. Not a good look to outsiders.”

or

“It’s sick not to look at all races of men as if they weren’t simply men. If you can’t do that, then just stick with your own, I would never tolerate being looked at as second choice.”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Let me present a more empathetic view of those romantic refugees. Especially Black women, who are the only group with a strong rationale for being in this situation.

As a practical matter, we have little direct control over what or whom we are attracted to, although we can pick places and behavior that over time might help us acquire a taste. Mostly we like what we are familiar with; this is simply a natural situation. While our mind might discern a better direction, our heart is entwined in habit and memory. Typically, it lags rational thought, for weeks, years, or even indefinitely.

In the real world, switching to, or even settling for, a “Plan B” or “C” strategy is actually a common occurrence, and unremarkable. Most of us are not pursuing our original (and perhaps still most desired) career. Did you compromise on where you are currently living; choosing practicality over a preferred location? Do you conform to a dress code? Do you vote your pocketbook over your ideals? How many of your friends were originally pursued for enhancing your career or other goals? Have financial concerns influenced how many children you might have, or how exciting a mate you might marry? Do you feel fabulous in that minivan?

Those black women who most need IR to empower themselves, are usually the same women most deeply imprinted unconsciously, intuitively, with the familiar archetypes they grew up with. It is a brave and impressive feat to go against your instincts, and quite rare. Please, let’s not further burden these strivers by implying some measure of defect in them because they have succeeded in pursuing men contrary to where the lightening strikes.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In my limited dating experience with AA women (not Caribbean, African, or integrated Black Americans), every one of them confessed eventually to an attraction primarily to Black men. I never resented this. I mean, what else can you reasonably expect from most AA women who grew up in Black environments?

Let me finish by reposting a comment by me back in June in response to Christelyn’s post “My Story: Jumping the Broom with a White Boy“. The inner quote at the start is from Christelyn’s post.

“If black women—regardless of class and education—were really honest, most will tell you that their ideal mate is a black man.”

This constantly denied fact (denied by more than a few BWIR bloggers) is a real stumbling block in IR relationships … not because of the fact, but because of the denial. These feelings are natural, should be expected, and not in any important way anti-race. There a few natural cosmopolitans, but most of us create our romantic target out of instinct mixed with what we are familiar with, at least initially.

It is assumed by many BW interested in IR that this simple fact will cause their suitor such pause that they may evaporate. Yet the little “white” lie (pun intended) isn’t really believed. So both parties pretend.

The truth is not awful, for mature people anyway. Yes, most BW open to IR grew up dreaming of a Black prince, and may still prefer such if all else is similar. BlackGirlInMaine has been honest about this in her blogging. She is in a stable marriage w/ a WM.

Sometimes this (non-BM as plan B) is denied with anger. But I have been in a few IR relationships, and, perhaps because I am easy to be honest with, every BW I have dated *so far* has admitted this preference. Sometimes the preference disappears, sometimes it doesn’t, but it was always there at her coming of age.

Despite all the angst, this really isn’t a big deal. Most of us don’t end up pursuing our first choice in career, romance, or location, but don’t consider that a tragedy. Human beings fall in love with human beings. Their partners either grow on them, or not. Familiarity eventually creates comfort, then ease.

I hate to tell you women yet another thing to be brave about, when you have been dealt far more than your share, but it is much better that he understand what your life has been about, what you have faced, and how you have evolved and why … than to try to have him think you live colorlessly. Do you really want him to be oblivious to your stressors?

If this level of complexity is overwhelming to him, he wasn’t worthy of you anyway.

Wish you all progress …

— Aaby

I’ve been waiting for two soup-stinkin’ months for this, and he BETTER be glad I like it, because I don’t much appreciate CPT time, especially if the person using it is not “C!”

Aaby, just because you love us, doesn’t entitle you to privileges endemic to our culture.

Okay; I’ll shut up now. Wait! Like my fancy French in the title? Guess my gig at Madame Noire is giving me some Euro-class.

Alphabet Man, take the floor!

—————–
Aaby Aabaakawad

I am a bit moody. Hey, I’ve been diagnosed with having an Artistic Personality. Anyways, I have been promising Christelyn some essays for BB&W for [*gulp*] two months now, but have been stuck. Not stuck for ideas, but unable to express them both clearly and supportively.

Last week I entered the comment section for Dr. Young: Black Women & Asian Men Make Blasian-Hot Couples! feeling grumpy and ended up declaring self-righteously, “I am not a cheerleader.”

Yeah, I know. Not a good look. :-/

A few days later I realized, well, why not do a little cheerleading? What’s wrong with that? And I finally got insight into my writer’s block. I was coming at my essays as if I was in the middle of a long complicated conversation with you all (I’ve been working with this subject for a while now), yet most of you here don’t know me from Adam. So, starting properly, I shall explain in an essay (or two) how I feel, why BWIR is important to me, and perhaps show why you might be willing to trust me when I go to some of the deeper questions of interracial romance, a few essays down the line.

I am way more comfortable being analytical or humorous, but today I will present to you, a profession of my love for Black women:

This is my personal story, only true for me. Some men may have come for opposite reasons. I will not explain why some, or even who, may love you. Just that I do. And that you are lovable.

I love the dark. I am not being facetious or metaphorical. I like being in dark places. I am pulled toward strong dark colors: rich wood tones, deep purples, ancient greens, the black between the stars.

I also love curves, as complex and baroque as can be imagined without getting lost. Lines and planes are for dividing and separating, not for defining living things.

I like trajectories and progressively changing motion. The dance of Nature, over the bound and excruciatingly simple movements of engineered things.

I listen up for the minor key, oversouled blue notes, and tripping wandering rhythms.

These personal aesthetics are more fundamental than my erotic sensibilities, and originated before sexual awareness or even conscious memory. But my feelings about living things, people, and especially my attraction to women, are built on these basic preferences.

So, perhaps you can see, without me laboriously connecting the dots for you, how this leads naturally to Black women.

Fortunately for me, there turned out to be more to appreciate as I grew. I am averse, sometimes unfairly, to the usual, the comfortable, and the conventional. Struggle is much more interesting, to me, than the playing out of triumph. By my nature, I deconstruct my world constantly. So, the pieces and people who don’t mesh with the main are assigned extra potential in my mind. I always want to know why.

A Black woman who is thriving is already heroic, and what she knows, whatever that might be in each woman’s case, is guaranteed to be interesting. I am not fetishizing suffering, honest. I am honoring insight. Insight happens to privileged people too, but it is rare for them, because (unless they have an extraordinary psychology) there just is no motivation to look beyond what is in their face.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

But hey, you are likely not really feeling these sprarkly generalizations, so let me break it down.

• I love that a Black woman often has thoughts in contrast to the main.
• I love that the eyes and teeth of a Black woman are prominent, by contrasting with her skin, so every expression revealed.
• I love that each motion through space by most fit Black women evoke the impression of graceful dancing.
• I love that when a Black woman speaks, the sounds of her words have shape and color.
• I love that veins, capillaries, and subdural fat do not define a Black woman’s skin tone, but instead the actual color of the skin itself.
• I love that Black hair is substantial and elastic, and claims space for itself.
• I love that there are no colors a Black woman can not wear.
• I love the leggy look, and the butt that says “I’m here, deal with it.”
• I love that Black women are sensual in the original meaning of the word, as in enjoying experience through her senses. Think food, dance, color, texture, music, touch, man-watching (ain’t nothin’ wrong w’ that).
• I love that those Black women who indulge in thinking are daring, analytical, and not self-serving.

Wishing you all progress.

— Aaby