Who Says “Black” is “Black?” Kola Boof Has Folks Hopping Mad…Again.

Who Says “Black” is “Black?” Kola Boof Has Folks Hopping Mad…Again.

My friend Kola Boof never pulls any punches. Sometimes I just hangout out on her Facebook page with my popcorn and watch the show. One of her posts last week garnered 1,000+ comments because Kola has some seemingly controversial opinions about mixed race people identifying themselves as “black.” She posed an idea that I’d never thought about before. She expresses disgust that black people will let anyone with a few drops of black blood identify as black, with gusto. She specifically calls out Soledad O’Brien, who identifies as black, but doesn’t much look it.

Author : Christelyn Karazin

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My friend Kola Boof never pulls any punches. Sometimes I just hangout out on her Facebook page with my popcorn and watch the show. One of her posts last week garnered 1,000+ comments because Kola has some seemingly controversial opinions about mixed race people identifying themselves as “black.” She posed an idea that I’d never thought about before. She expresses disgust that black people will let anyone with a few drops of black blood identify as black, with gusto. She specifically calls out Soledad O’Brien, who identifies as black, but doesn’t much look it.

Here’s what sparked the uh…spirited discussion:

A White Woman (Soledad O’Brien) is given the power to DICTATE to Blacks what “blackness” is….she of an Irish name, white skin & everything but the burden.

She is to define an entire race of people from AFRICA based on the 1 drop rule invented by the KKK and we’re supposed to listen to her and not our own continent. It’s so typically arrogant and AMERICAN RACIST.

She made a good point when she mentioned that black people are so eager to accept anyone as black while other races will literally kill to protect who and how people attach themselves to their group.

 

 

I remember when some black folks were so offended that Tiger Woods rejected the One Drop Rule and claimed all his lineage, not just the one that was the most physically obvious.

But then, you have to wonder, who gets to be black? Here’s Kola’s take.

 

 

I admit I struggle with this. Not “struggle” in the sense that I’m staying up at night wringing my hands about whether or not three of my four kids are considered black, or will consider themselves black, or will fall into the “tragic mulatto” category. There’s not much chance of that. We live in Southern California, and there’s just too many kids that look like mine around for mine to feel isolated.  My main concern is that they become productive members of society, healthy, whole and happy.

But at the same time, I can understand the concerns of people (like me) who are visibly black being included in the same group with people who can slip in and out of their blackness according to how it suits them. Mixed race people often have this privilege, which does lend to an unfair advantage over those who are obviously black. Honestly, I don’t see any viable solution to this conundrum except that the people of H.G. Well’s “Time Machine” hurry up and populate the world so that we can find something else to divide ourselves about.

Full disclosure: I asked Kola for her permission to post about this subject. She informed me that she will write a post to mixed/biracial people who thinks she hates them after Christmas.

Thoughts?

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It could be" cool"or antagizing" for some to express their blackness at you.soon after friendly hellos, some mixed sisters would explaine that their Black. Sometimes i stare for a moment for lack of speaking out disrespctfuly. I do wonder whats on their mind to tell some one like me, Dark Skinned Black Women that they are Black. I expained to a young lady a weeks days ago at a Department store. In the world You will not be treated as a Black person Because that is not what the world sees, and Im sorry shes confused. 

SirenRites 5 pts

Its always very sad to watch the Parent attack the Child "dark attacking light skinned"! Very sad. Your Sister and/or Brothers child......

Neecy 1941 pts

UGH Whatevs KOLA!

 

I'm sorry but an African woman trying to dictate what and how black Americans should be and identify as is annoying. This is NOT AFRICA. Mixed looking and Bi racial Black Americans have contributed JSUT AS MUCH to the Black progress as non mixed looking blacks. We have also suffered, fought for equality with our darker sisters an brothers. While things are not perfect, we identify ourselves as Black no matter how we look b/c IN THIS COUNTRY that is what we do. Go sit down somewere with this nonsense about if you don't look Black you can't identify as such.

 

The problem with this "theory" of hers is that unfortunately, Blacks cannot be put inot a box based on  looks. Two people can come from the same parents and one can look mixed and the other more Black. They are BOTH BLACK.

 

Good luck with trying to tell Blacks folks who is and who isn't "really" Black based on how they look.

 

UGH

Kathy Henry 246 pts

I cannot believe that you all are still debating about this petty shit. For those who are concerned that the black community is taking in too many tragic "mulattos", contact your local congressperson and demand that land be set aside for all the blacks who are authentically black with African features and kinky hair.

MySmile 4172 pts

 KingsDaughter Yea at times she makes good points but she seems like a bit of a drama queen!

ImaniScully 200 pts

Does this even matter though? Like, what is this even accomplishing? I still don't understand what is being discussed.

DWB 7458 pts

 KingsDaughter From the article you linked:

 

"But race and racism are not only a thing for black, brown and those who are nonwhite to work through and figure out on their own. Race and racism includes us all. The argument, "I can't help or do anything about what happened 400 years ago," or " What else do you people want from us," is an easy out."

 

BIG assumption in that statement, isn't there ... can you spot it?

KingsDaughter 4640 pts

 DWB Why don't you tell me what it is??

DWB 7458 pts

 KingsDaughter The assumption in the statement is that sole perpetrator of racism are white and sole victims are not ... when in fact, in America and throughout the world, racial (as well as religious and ethnic) tension are nothing new.

 

A humorous take on what I'm saying from back in the '60s

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAOwYDlEQXo

AJ2011 2310 pts

Another dimension of this discussion in this NPR broadcast. Please listen to the whole thing if you're going to. 

"Pike County, OH – As Black as We Wish to Be"

http://stateofthereunion.com/home/season-3/pike-county-oh

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

I am kind of with Kola on this.  It is time to set boundaries on what is blackness in Americia.  I think we as black people have been too inclusive of other people who tend to exploit our openness.   I've seen biracial and multiracial people apply for black-based college scholarships knowing full well they don't identify as black. This money could go to a fully black child who is proud of who they are and want to give back to the community.  Instead it's wasted on someone who doesn't give two fux about black people in general.

 

It's time to keep the opportunists and exploiters at bay.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 Suburban Soulgirl "I've seen biracial and multiracial people apply for black-based college scholarships knowing full well they don't identify as black. This money could go to a fully black child who is proud of who they are and want to give back to the community.  Instead it's wasted on someone who doesn't give two fux about black people in general."

 

I think Black Americans need to start applying this criterion to non-Americans of African descent as well. I have heard stories of college campuses where Africans and Caribbean descended Blacks take advantage of opportunities that were set up to benefit American Blacks -- study groups, etcetera -- then deny Black Americans access to their own (African only / Caribbean only) study groups.

Only a fool shares with those who are stingy with them.

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

 AndreaLThorsen  I agree with your assessment.  If you look at other ethnic and race-based scholarships (esp. w/Native Americans, where blood quantum rules are utilized), they are clearly restricted to applicants that are of X descent.  Why should we be so free-wheeling with resources meant for black American students?

 

@AndreaLThorsen @Suburban Soulgirl I totally disagree with you on that because African blacks and Caribbean blacks have been discriminated against just as much as American blacks, We have fought right alongside black Americans and stood up for causes that would give equal rights for everyone of color. By excluding us and putting us in another category or box all you would be doing is causing the same kind of racism that we have all fought against. When a white person who is racist sees a black American, a Caribbean person of African descent, or a black African do you think they pick and choose who they will be prejudiced against? They see us as all black ppl and we all face the same types of discrimination and obstacles, So why now would you discriminate against someone who has already been discriminated against just like you? It's not enough that we face racism from whites but now we have to face discrimination from blacks because their families were in America for a few generations longer? Does that make sense to you?

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

@ Lilly-  I acknowledge the contributions of non-Americans in the Civil Rights Movement.  But NGL, it's been my experience that in general, most immigrant groups (including Africans and Caribbeans) tend to look down on black Americans and perceive us as "lazy", "ghetto" and "not hard working"- especially today.   Black Americans have always been very inclusive of everyone in general, and it's a little frustrating to me when we're the subject of everyone's disrespect.  

Brenda55 19421 pts moderator

 Suburban Soulgirl " Black Americans have always been very inclusive of everyone in general, and it's a little frustrating to me when we're the subject of everyone's disrespect. "

 

Ahhh no I don't think so.  This idea of Black Americans as inclusinve is to my mind not true at all.

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

 Brenda55  Maybe "general" is too broad a term to use, as I've encountered fellow black Americans to be quite douchey and ignorant when it comes to international relations.  But the majority of the ones I know tend to be pan-Afrocentric (which is a problematic philosophy IMO), and have no problems at all with blacks from other nations.

 

@Suburban Soulgirl In my personal experience alone, I am not generalizing or saying all black Americans are like this but I have faced more overt racism from black Americans then white Americans. Now that is not to say that all black Americans are like this towards blacks from the Caribbean or Africa, but I'm just saying this is my personal experience alone. There are many black Americans that are accepting, inclusive, hardworking, and very very intelligent and I acknowledge that and when I see those ppl I feel proud not only as a person of color but as a human being. I've met plenty of ghetto black Americans, but I've also met a lot of ghetto white and hispanic americans too. Anyone can be ghetto, loud, rude, or embarrassing regardless of your color or what your country of origin is. That's why none of us should generalize because not everyone will fit stereotypes.

Brenda55 19421 pts moderator

Suburban Soulgirl

 

Suburban.

 

Serious questions.

Who the hell sits in committee and sets that limit?

Who writes the definition?

Who enforces it?

What are the sanctions for those who do not comply?

For those who do not comply why should they care?

Who or what backs up that grand statement of setting limits?

 

Last time I looked other than the guy sitting at the head of the executive branch in this country who by the way is one of those folks, I see a dearth of any one in power who gives a fraction of a shit about this petty argument that we are discussing here.

 

 

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

 Brenda55  Suburban Soulgirl

 

There is no rule on what defines blackness. If both parents are black, then it's obvious that the child is black as well...End of story. 

 

The remaining questions seem a little condescending IMO.  Naturally, I don't support enforcing rules on blackness (it's a total waste of energy); EXCEPT when it comes to resources (scholarships, etc) that are for the benefit of black Americans.  A person who does *not* identify as black American, nor gives two damns about the black American community should be going to school on private scholarships meant for black Americans.  If they want to identify as multi-racial or whatever else so much- they should utilize scholarships meant for multi-racial people.

 

Also- Clearly, the POTUS has a lot more pressing issues in mind right now- I am sure his racial identity is the least of his problems.

Brenda55 19421 pts moderator

 Suburban Soulgirl 

"There is no rule on what defines blackness. If both parents are black, then it's obvious that the child is black as well...End of story."

 

There is no rule on what defines blackness, so it is not obvious now is it? 

So not that is not the end of the story. 

 

"The remaining questions seem a little condescending IMO.  Naturally, I don't support enforcing rules on blackness (it's a total waste of energy);   ." 

 

No condensation implied or expressed.  Those were legitimate questions.  They just cannot really be answered since black people in the US are not a unified group with our own political, economic,social and criminal justice institutions that would have an  benificial or adverse effect on a person wanting or not wanting to be a member of the group. 

 

"EXCEPT when it comes to resources (scholarships, etc) that are for the benefit of black Americans.  A person who does *not* identify as black American, nor gives two damns about the black American community should be going to school on private scholarships meant for black Americans.  If they want to identify as multi-racial or whatever else so much- they should utilize scholarships meant for multi-racial people."

 

First. Black people do not control those resources and have no control over how those resources are awarded. Second and I quote.  "There is no rule on what defines blackness" So the people who control the resources can and do control the criteria of  who receives them.  That was the point of my series of questions not condescension.  

 

"Also- Clearly, the POTUS has a lot more pressing issues in mind right now- I am sure his racial identity is the least of his problems."

 

Agreed. 

 

There is no rule that defines blackness and no group among people who idnetify as black who can make that determination.  Black people are not a tribe. We are not like the Native Americans . We are not joined by a religion like the Jew. We come from many parts of the world. We are not one people. We are many peoples and have blended with may peoples.  That should be our strength but instead it is seen as a weakenss. We have an uncanny ability of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 Suburban Soulgirl  Brenda55 I know of no "multi-racial" scholarships, which is why they will continue leeching Black scholarships for as long as it is allowed.

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

 Brenda55 I thought most scholarships were privately funded by black organizations?  If so, doesn't a board or committee have a say on who can have access to them?

 

I agree that black people are not a tribe.  Nor would I want it to be such.  But we both can agree that blacks with roots in the US share a unique history.  Our ancestors overcame great obstacles so we can enjoy the freedoms that we have, and the resources that were meant for our advancement.  It's pretty appalling that other people, who don't share that history, who don't even care about the bloodshed of our ancestors, can take that for granted.

Brenda55 19421 pts moderator

 Suburban Soulgirl Black scholarships make up a small amount of those available to AA students.

We do have a unique history one that bi- racials share with is from the time the first slave set foot in America. 

 

We are just going to have to let this disagreement stand where it is and move on. 

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

 AndreaLThorsen  I see. I believe there are some general "minority" scholarships out there that all POC Americans can apply for...Which I don't take beef with if anyone should apply for those. 

 

But yeah, it's pretty hypocritical how certain individuals apply for black American-based scholaships if they don't ID as black, nor have anything good to say about black Americans in general (which makes me wonder what they think of themselves if they happen to be partial or half-black).  It's like they play the black card when it benefits them.

 
KinkyBottleBlonde00 210 pts

In another post, we discussed white men as allies. Instead of implementing division, why can't we see multiracial people who ID as black and doing something good as allies? I've never watched Soledad's show (the only TV shows I do is Big Bang Theory and Scandal, sorry. I will read the news, not watch it), but if the big wigs were against it, but allowed her to do it and as long as she is talking to various type of black people, what's the problem? It appears that she's using her celebrity for a good cause. Would it make you feel better if she was in some movie or show playing a sterrotype or shaking her arse and using her priviledge to allow various types of men to lust after her in a hip hop music video? We can't bitch about microphones b/c we don't own them. Other than Oprah, how many brown/darker skinned people have enough influence to command attention and respect from various backgrounds and big wigs. But even when she talks about hard hitting issues, she still gets hate from some black people. The point of the other topic was that white men have a lot of influence in society, so we should align ourselves with them. The point I want to make is that right now, lighter skinned people have a lot more influence in broadcast than we do. I'm not saying support them, but if they are passionate about the welfare of all black people and use their priviledge to try to add awareness and advance the lives of browner or "fuller" black people (*cough* Obama *cough*), as well as those everywhere, maybe we should think harder before trying to revoke their black card and their freedom of speech while possessing said card.

Brenda55 19421 pts moderator

KinkyBottleBlonde00

"In another post, we discussed white men as allies. Instead of implementing division, why can't we see multiracial people who ID as black and doing something good as allies?"

 

You make an excellent point.  You have to wonder about the people who insist on Balkanizing we human beings.  What is their end game?

 

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 KinkyBottleBlonde00 I have no problem with anyone acting as an ally to the interests of BW, my issue is only with the physical and political representation of BW. If you are not a BW (with 2 Black parents) you cannot properly REPRESENT my interests. You can support my interests and stand by me, both in word and in deed --my husband understands and does this! -- but not act as my representative. And if they (non-blacks) demand a White-washed version of Blackness to represent my interests, that is a HUGE problem that needs to be dealt with in and of itself. We don't have to accept the racist demands of outsiders!

 

Money talks and you know what walks. Too many BW seem afraid to vote their conscience with their time, energy and money.  Even though it's easier and far more productive than protesting in the streets. I hear so many idiotic excuses for why some BW think they should continue supporting their enemies. Pathetic!

 

If Soledad O'Brian considers herself part Black, so what? She is by all reports. I prefer her saying that to saying that CNN doesn't need to hire a BW reporter because they have her and she's Black enough. (Disclaimer: I have not watched CNN in years, so I have no idea if they have an actual BW on there or not).  I would not expect CNN to go out and hire a Black woman (or man) for the sole purpose of doing that one series, so I'm not really sure why Kola Boof is so upset about it. Frankly, the whole Black in America thing sounds like a voyeuristic waste of time, so if you don't approve don't watch it. 

 

I don't approve because it makes Black Americans into something to be observed from a safe distance, like zoo animals. It does nothing to further "racial" understanding, it simply others us. That is why there will never be a White in America series, hosted by anyone.

KinkyBottleBlonde00 210 pts

@AndreaLThorsen , Thank you for explaining your perspective so I can understand. What you said makes sense, but this country is kind of slow in a lot of things. I feel (hell, we all know) there will never be a show called White in America. The media makes sure to emphasize that they run things. You've got Everybody Loves Raymond,Big Love, Friends, Sex and the City, think of every show and movie with a white cast. These shows are all very different, but they manage to write some variety and depth into their characters to the point of originality. They have so much pull in broadcast that if they kill their children and tell the media they go missing (side eyes Susan Smith and Casey Anthony), we're supposed to drop everything and find their child, and even when the truth comes out, regular programming is interrupted so we can sob with them. African-Americans don't have that. If your child is missing, you seriously have to rely on God. People can watch any formulaic show that has American Blacks and then decide, we're all the same b/c on TV and movies, for the most part, we're depicted the same. Honestly, I think if black people just took over and did what they wanted, it's better than having a representative. Look how knowledgeable we are about Caucasian hair, but it's only been the last few years that we've seriously gone entrepreneurial on haircare and learned how to take better care of our own hair. We need to do something like that with media, so that people realize Black people are not monolithic.

Jamila 7215 pts moderator

 AndreaLThorsen  KinkyBottleBlonde00 

 

White in America, courtesy of Huffington Post

 

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/50ca4a9602a760385c0000ab

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

I have never had an issue with mixed people identifying themselves however they see fit. Frankly, I think that if you have 2 Black (identified) parents you are "Black" no matter how light your skin is. However, I do take issue with mixed people who go around saying "I'm not Black", especially online, where no one can see them, but then when they need some credibility for their b.s. arguments all of a sudden they remember that their mother or father is an African.

 

Had a woman who pulled this on me three weeks ago, on my blog. She's not Black, but wants  to argue about a Black woman's issue, and when another commenter (actually two) called her out for it, she's suddenly 1/2 Nigerian. My first thought was "give me a break!" I was through with her right then and there. Not because she was 1/2 Nigerian and 1/2 Jewish (or so she said), but because she said "I'm not Black" -- and therefore had no dog in the fight -- until she needed her argument to be accepted/ believed. In addition, she was pushing the same b.s. thought process that is currently destroying the lives of Black women and children.

 

My feelings are this: You don't want  to be Black, for whatever reason, that's fine, but don't turn around and try to force your dysfunctional thinking and agendas on the rest of us, because you see an advantage in it for you! And NO, I do not believe that a person who has only ONE Black identified parent can represent me in a movie or politics, no matter how dark they may be. I don't even think that a BM can represent me fairly. BW get screwed left and right because our representatives (politically) are either BM or WW.

Maxine 1005 pts

I look forward to reading Kola's entry about mixed race people.  I have never believed from her writings that she hates biracials.  She is certainly a fan of our president.    

MixedUpInVegas 1653 pts

Who is going to be the final arbiter of who is "authentically Black" and who is a poseur taking unfair advantage of the circumstances of their birth?

MySmile 4172 pts

Somebody below said Soledad's mother taught her to embrace all her ethnicities..that's what I would like to do with my future children. I want them to have a strong sense of identity and not rely on random people (especially the media) to define them....it's easy to get lost out in this world of stereotypes and other negative bs.. Soledad does seem to be sure of who she is (even if everyone else isn't) and I like that about her... My mom always said "You better know who you are in this world" We used to roll our eyes when she said that but now I understand how right she was....this goes for people of every race and ethnicity...but ESPECIALLY anyone considered a person of color in this country....You tell the world who you are, don't let them tell you who you are!! Everyone is an individual. I understand these issues are important (and I'm usually passionate) but at some point there's only so much you can do about stubborn people who are going to think what they want no matter what before you drive yourself crazy.....I'm just learning to let my life and my actions be an example and not try so hard to prove myself to others.. I only hope that my children don't have to deal with all this unnecessary bs....it's tiring.. I just want them to live and live well...and embrace all of them..

JennMJack 1180 pts

I have a question. In high school, I had a friend named Johnny Abjiofor. Johnny's family came from South Africa. He and his little brother had lived there till he was six and then moved to Texas and then Cali. Johnny had a South African accent, spoke fluent French and Swahili, ate platains and wore Kente cloth to his family celebrations. And, since he was from sub-saharan Africa, he technically could and did check the box for "Black" when he moved here.

 

Here's the thing, Johnny looked 100% Vietnamese. I mean full-blown Vietnamese. He had little round glasses, jet black hair that his mom always cut in the shape of a bowl (until Junior year when he started going to Super Cuts), he was yellow complected, and had indigenous Vietnamese features.

 

Generations ago, Johnny's great somebody had moved to South Africa and started a family. Everyone in his family ranged in complexion from blue-black to stark white. But, most of them were somewhere in between.

 

So, how can we say that race is not simply a social construct. Is Johnny black? He thought he was. The census says he is. So, we get to tell him he's not?

 

What are we talking about here? American black pathology, the "black" race (assuming there is only one), or black skin? Because until we are incredibly clear about how different those three things are and how they intersect for multi-racial people, biracial people, transplants from other "black" nations, and American blacks, we can't really thoroughly have this conversation.

Avoc42883 1222 pts

 JennMJack As a child of black immigrants from a black country here's my take.  Let's say you have a Harvard lecture class.  There are 100 students in the class and 10 are black.  But of the 10, 5 are biracial kids who grew up in predominately white neighborhoods, 4 are children of black immigrants, like myself who grew up in predominately white neighborhoods.  The remaining one is an African American of two parents who identify as African American, who grew up in a predominately black neighborhood with the statistically average school systems and average income levels of African Americans.  I use this example because it closely mirrors my college and highschool experience.

 

Someone can look at that and say yup, black people in American are doing just fine, that Harvard class is 10% black, look at it.   But are African Americans really doing ok if that is who ends up in that class?  How did those kids get there?   And what happens when African Americans point to those 10 kids rather than looking at their poor performing schools and often dangerous neighborhoods? 

 

I support people's right to identify, but it hasn't been all that way, "we" have been telling Johnny he's black, and not allowing him to tell us he's black.  And if he dare said he wasn't, Johnny would have hell to pay.

 

JennMJack 1180 pts

 Avoc42883 You didn't answer any of my questions. And, again, your example reverses the argument. This post is about people self-identifying. SELF-identifying. Not being identified. I agree that the "black experience" is a unique one. But, Kola's point is primarily about complexion. Yours is not.

 

Additionally, your example neglects to take into account that poor whites have similar experiences to middle-class blacks. Therefore, a multi-racial or biracial person could share experience with any class of whites or blacks. And, class plays a major role in what your "black experience" looks like. You are intermingling race and class. I am dark-skinned and my cousins are all light-skinned (some look hispanic others are multiracial) and they are of lower social classes than me. I went to the tier college and bought a house at 23. They have not done so. How does that fit into your magical example of the poor black person and the well-off biracial folks? What is all this animus against biracial and multi-racial people on a site about interracial relationships.

 

Your example assumes that biracial folks are of higher social class than "regular" blacks.

 

When is anyone here going to stick to the argument posed. Should non-black looking people be "allowed" to call themselves black? If so, why? If not, why?

 

Nothing you just said answers that question.

Avoc42883 1222 pts

 JennMJack As I said my "magical" example reflect MY experience.  Just like your college/financial experience is YOURS.  To answer your question.  there is no "allowed", no one should be granting permission in the first place.   Johnny can call himself black and he can also identify as Asian NO ONE should take that from him. 

 

BUT if we look at history, black mixed/bi-racial people were never given a choice in the first place.  They were TOLD they were black.  There was no other side.

 

 

 

 

Avoc42883 1222 pts

 JennMJack I'd also like to add acknowledging colorism and its poison is NOT a hatred of mixed or biracial people. 

JennMJack 1180 pts

 Avoc42883 Here's the problem with what you just said though, Johnny is not Asian. He has never been Asian, doesn't speak Vietnamese, and was transplanted generations ago. He is a black man. Period.

 

I criticized your example because you failed to answer my question using yours. I cited that example pure as evidentiary support for my argument.

 

I am not going to go back and forth on this anymore. But, what I will say is this, the answer to colorism is not colorism. The answer is transcendence. Yes, we've been put in a box. But, the answer is not to change the shape, size or color of the box. Or, to exclude others from the box. The answer is to simply exit the box and hopefully take some other folks out with us on the way.

 

I will say it again:

 

"What are we talking about here? American black pathology, the "black" race (assuming there is only one), or black skin? Because until we are incredibly clear about how different those three things are and how they intersect for multi-racial people, biracial people, transplants from other "black" nations, and American blacks, we can't really thoroughly have this conversation."

 

Kola is obviously a divisive, non-transcendent actor who would suggest we exclusivize our box. I firmly disagree. #Thatisall

MySmile 4172 pts

JennMJack

"Should non-black looking people be "allowed" to call themselves black? If so, why? If not, why?"

 

I'll just throw in my opinion. The reason that this is so confusing and difficult is because you can't really tell people, especially adults, what they are allowed to do.. Even if black people did tell biracial or multiracial people that, nothing would come of it, at least for a while...because it's been going on for so long. Then of course, there are gray areas...like biracial people who don't appear biracial (to the average american) and people with two black parents who "look biracial" or multiracial. Some biracial people identify more with black people for certain reasons. There are also plenty of other factors.

 

None of us can really tell someone how to identify, but I definitely get the part where kola boof is saying the black race is a virtual "dumping ground" for anyone who isn't white enough....and I don't mean dumping ground in a bad way...not in the sense that black people don't accept biracial people or don't want them around....because black people didn't originally do the "dumping"..even though now most are doing the "claiming" of biracials as black people...I mean dumping in the way that white people back then didn't even let biracial people have a choice to claim both.....they treated biracial people like they were "contaminated" with black blood... If there was ever a shift in "racial boundaries", it would be slow and gradual..we'd have to undo hundreds of years of the one drop rule...

 

It's too complicated for me to even wrap my head around. People can identify how they want to, but like I said below, it just annoys me when biracial or multiracial people are seen as "the spokesperson for black people" in the media because they are the "safe" choices...again, nothing against biracial people, as I will likely have biracial children myself...but you have to understand why black people are fed up with that. Basically, instead of just "including" biracial people in the black race, Biracial and multiracial people have been chosen to "define" and "represent" the entire Black American experience...Though their experience often has striking similarities to many black people, there are contrasts. Lumping biracial people in with black people as well as "setting them apart" by having an obvious preference for them in the media (and regular life) only adds to the confusion of some biracial people....so, they're "just like all those other black people" yet they're "not like all those other black people" lol....I'd be like wtf if I was biracial or multiracial! It is also not a compliment to black people for the media to only give out positive attributes to biracial, multiracial, or lighter skinned people..because of course, this ties into colorism too. Have you ever heard of the "token black person"? Well...now they have token biracial people..just "black enough" to shut black people up.....again, it is not the fault of biracial people, but some of them are being used...and that doesn't sit well with me.... I worry about both "fully black" people (even though nobody really is) and biracial/ multiracial people...nobody wins here...

Patricia Kayden 1673 pts

So what is Kola going to do to the mixed race/biracial individuals who want to call themselves Black?  How would she enforce her narrow definition of Blackness to force them to call themselves something else?

 

These types of "controversies" are a little ridiculous in my opinion.  People get to call themselves whatever they want to.  I've met East Indians and other Asians who call themselves Black.  I know biracial people who call themselves Black.  Why should that bother me at all?

 

And I stopped liking Kola after she boasted about sleeping with Djimon Hounsou to "get back" at Kimora Lee (one of the posts here).  Pathetic.

Kitt_Kat 110 pts

I've had a problem with Kola Boof ever since I saw some of her Twitter posts calling black people 'n*ggerstock' and saying horrible things about them. 

That aside, being black is sort of a go-to place to dump mixed people into, but if to be black, you have to look black, then many mixed people would still fit the bill.The thing about being mixed is that you are both races, even though you may not be accepted as such or treated as such. Black Americans tend to have mixed ancestry somewhere in there, and as such, we look a number of different ways. How do we define black or being black? I believe that race is socially constructed, and I hope one day we'll bury it and identify ourselves in different ways.

Avoc42883 1222 pts

 Kitt_Kat I follow her twitter and she goes VERY hard and sometimes gets a little too lewd for my tastes.  I see a lot of what she says, especially terms like n*ggerstock as trolling/baiting the GAT-DL and Blackistanis.  She speaks particularly to African Americans and its harsh, but its true.  She gets people angry because people don't like being told about themselves.  The funny thing is all the folks she  has riled up, the most they can do is counter her by calling her ugly, gorilla, etc, thereby proving her point. 

 

The thing is that women like her who are African and and people of African descent in other parts of the world tend to forget that black in the US is a cultural signifier, its why Tiger Woods didn't call himself that, he didn't associate with the culture. 

 

In regards to Tiger Woods, what Kola is saying, which I agree with is, rather than try and bully Tiger Woods to identify as black why not instead ask why there are more black boys interested in picking up a basketball rather than a golf club?

MixedUpInVegas 1653 pts

OK, someone help me out here: what "authentically Black" culture are we trying to keep "pure" and untainted?  Are we talking about Ghetto Culture? Or Black middle class/merchant class culture?  Or could it be the Gullah culture in the Carolinas?  Or could it be the French Creole culture?  I could go on, but I'll allow others to imagine the numerous cultures that comprise the Black people in America.

 

What exactly are we "protecting" from those "tragic mulattoes," "confused bi-racials" and "others" who are trying to sneak into the Black realm and somehow do them harm?  And what harm is that?  That Black people won't be dark-skinned anymore? Or maybe the harm is that these non-bonafides will . . . .what?

 

I've been watching this argument unfold for a couple of days; gotta admit I was afraid to weigh in because the vitriol directed at mixed race people like myself was surprising and painful.  The possibility of getting flamed for something with which I had nothing to do (being born mixed race, that is) didn't seem like a fun endeavor.  Nonetheless, I want someone to explain to me how our presence in the Black community is undesireable. 

Toni_M 18807 pts moderator

MixedUpInVegas

Well...Kola herself is bi-racial/multi-ethnic. She's just DARK. I think it's a fallacy to assume that this conversation is about being bi-racial/multi-ethinic as well as light-skinned as if these things were mutually exclusive. It occurs to me that people are doing this and missing the original point, however controversial that point is.

 

Dark skinned people tend to be looked down on and omitted. White racist culture when forced to acknowledged people of color will reach for those most acceptable to them - lighter brighter persons. You can argue that this is when racial mixing is of any use to white racism: As a buffer between themselves and blackness, which they loathe. When a mixed person willingly acts a a buffer and dark-skinned people allow this buffer to exist, both groups are technically cooperating with white racism. This is the accusation.

 

As I stated way early on, I understand why this cooperation occurs. The alternative is frightening, however rather than assume that rejecting the buffer/1-drop rule is a bad thing, both groups can move away from white racism and find new ways to identify themselves and each other. Ways that make the focus of identity on the persons of color and not white racists and their need to preserve whiteness.

 

 

I think that was the fundamental rant.

 

Being bi-racial doesn't necessarily mean you are light-skinned and I feel it's interesting we are framing this conversation from that point of view when the person who is being attacked is proof that this is not the case. She's just a very dark bi-racial woman. She does not have the shade privilege that lighter multi-ethnic women have, as is the case with darker mutli-ethnic/bi-racial women when it comes to representation. So perhaps people should keep this in mind: Not all "mixed" persons are lighter and brighter and being mixed doesn't necessarily guarantee visibility and representation depending on your skin tone, even among other multi-racial persons.