Beyond Black & White » Politics http://www.beyondblackwhite.com Chronicles, Musings and Debates about Interracial & Intercultural Relationships Fri, 24 Oct 2014 05:45:50 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0 Beyond Black & White Fan Page is Under Attack Again. Time to Go to War. http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/beyond-black-white-fan-page-attack-time-go-war/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/beyond-black-white-fan-page-attack-time-go-war/#comments Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:53:41 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33997 Not even a week since we launched Beyond Black & White The Rebirth, and we’re already under attack. As you know, the last page was deleted by a concerted effort of trolls who unjustly reported and complained to Facebook until we were shut down. The reason the haters did this? Because we tell uncomfortable truths about […]

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Not even a week since we launched Beyond Black & White The Rebirth, and we’re already under attack. As you know, the last page was deleted by a concerted effort of trolls who unjustly reported and complained to Facebook until we were shut down. The reason the haters did this? Because we tell uncomfortable truths about what goes on in the black community that makes some folks just too uncomfortable.

With the inception of the new page, while there has been ZERO content that is hate speech, they have now changed tactics and are coming into the page to instigate fights and start debate topics on thread…

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Here’s another. I’m just going to add screenshots of all the hate to PROVE what is going on here. There can no longer be any speculation.

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You guys, this is not a prank. This is not a gag. This is a full-on act of social media terror. Our page is INNOCENT, and we are being stalked and bullied into silence. Those who mock me said I was being “dramatic.” Really? Wait until those people have their pages attacked. Because make no mistake, the enemy is emboldened. They took me down, and now they WILL come for you.

These people want a war, they got one. I may be feminine, but I am not WEAK. WE are not weak. I was going to keep this to myself, but I think it’s appropriate to announce that BB&W just acquired the domain, BeyondBlackWhiteForums.com. We are now in the process of site construction. This will be a real, live SEPARATE forum (think Long Hair Care Forum and (gasp) LipStickAlly) just for our community, where we can discuss the topics important to our community without FEAR of someone TEARING DOWN WHAT WE BUILT. So all this reporting to Facebook will be in vain, because what we are building there CAN NOT be torn down. But it will have to be a community effort. We will charge a nominal fee of $9.99 per year for site upkeep. In closing, trolls have done me a favor. They have reminded me of the tremendous support we have built over the years from people, like me, who REFUSE to be silenced. You BW haters have BlackMenVent, and TheColi, etc. Our light will shine on OUR space, so all this effort you’re putting into destroying our community is only galvanizing us to make it stronger and iron-clad protected. You have won NOTHING.

But I need you help. If you really care about this community, you have to FIGHT for it, same as I am.

Here’s the summary of the campaign:

Many of you are aware that the original Beyond Black & White Facebook fan was disbanded by a group of haters who organized to unrightfully flag and report all of our posts so that we would be booted over sheer quantity of complaints. We now have a new page, but we are STILL under attack. People are coming to our page SPECIFICALLY to intigate fights so that they can run to report hate speech to Facebook. Make no mistake, these people don’t want to silence the fan page solely, they want to silence our entire message. They DO NOT want us to talk about how black women should maximize their options dating interracially. They DON’T want us to talk about the victimization and exploitation of black women by perpetrators in our OWN communities. They DO NOT want us to talk about the rampant out-of-wedlock rate and how it leaves black women vulnerable and mired in poverty. They DO NOT want us to talk about how some segments of the community are hell-bend on black women being the mules of the race and to never desire and deign to rise above their station.

The only hope we have of protection against these attacks is to insulate ourselves in communities that we OWN. Facebook is a “rental,” and we can be evicted at any time, for unjust cause and false accusations. With our forum, no one can come in a take away the community, support, personal stories and essential coversations we have in our community. We can not let them win. First, Beyond Black & White, and then watch all of your favorite black female empowerment pages be attacked and disappear. Make no mistake–we’re all in danger.

We did an estimate of costs for the forum…approximately $1,000.

Domain name and hosting: $41.88
Puchase of forum software: $250.00
Graphic Design and layout: $300.00
Labor cost of web person: $60.00 per hour

So I’m asking for your help to keep our space sacred. Any little bit helps. Let’s go!

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Is Greg Orman the future of American politics? http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/greg-orman-future-american-politics/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/greg-orman-future-american-politics/#comments Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:26:37 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33441 by Dani NBC News has called him “the most interesting man in politics this November.” Newly released polls show Greg Orman (I) leading long-time Kansas Senator Pat Roberts (R) by seven points, a few weeks before Election Day. Roberts, who survived a scathing Republican primary against a Tea party candidate, initially seemed surprised by the […]

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by Dani

NBC News has called him “the most interesting man in politics this November.”

Newly released polls show Greg Orman (I) leading long-time Kansas Senator Pat Roberts (R) by seven points, a few weeks before Election Day. Roberts, who survived a scathing Republican primary against a Tea party candidate, initially seemed surprised by the surge of support for the little known businessman, who has previously identified as both Republican and Democrat. Orman’s website indicates a mish-mash of policy positions, ranging from supporting background checks at gun shows to term limits to adoption of a territorial tax system. He seems most passionate about campaign finance reform.

On running for the U.S. Senate as an independent, Orman said, “I didn’t feel like either party fit me well as someone who is fiscally responsible and socially tolerant.” Likewise, younger voters are choosing not to identify with a political party, with nearly 50% of Millennials describing themselves as independents (though they tend to vote Democratic).

If this trend holds, both as millennials age and with the next generation (as yet unnamed), then America’s troubled two party system could very well begin to unravel over the couple of decades. For me personally, I’m sick of economic ignorance on the left and social intolerance on the right. Both seem perpetuated by rigid, “all or nothing” party line ideology where defectors are “punished” in the next election cycle (as opposed to issue by issue coalitions). Maybe a rise of the independents will get America to where we can move past partisan, lockstep gridlock and toward issue based solutions.

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A Picture Says 1000 Words… http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/picture-say-1000-words/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/picture-say-1000-words/#comments Sat, 04 Oct 2014 05:13:25 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33759 I took this screenshot of the individuals arrested during protests in Ferguson. This picture is poignant on so many levels that I really don’t need to add any commentary. But I WILL ask this question: Can you recall a time when “the brothers” were gathered in the courthouse, arrested on behalf of a black woman […]

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I took this screenshot of the individuals arrested during protests in Ferguson. This picture is poignant on so many levels that I really don’t need to add any commentary.

But I WILL ask this question: Can you recall a time when “the brothers” were gathered in the courthouse, arrested on behalf of a black woman being victimized?

I’ll wait.

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Do We Give Female Domestic Violence Abusers a Pass? http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/give-female-domestic-violence-abusers-pass/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/give-female-domestic-violence-abusers-pass/#comments Thu, 02 Oct 2014 04:55:22 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33743 In the last few weeks there has been a lot of uproar about domestic violence in the light of the Ray Rice scandal and others as well. Professional soccer player Hope Solo is being charged with domestic violence (she assaulted her sister and her nephew) but she is still actively playing her sport and she […]

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society, culture, rage, angry black woman, health, emotional health, hostility, depression, abuse, reflection, perception, patience, rage, disorders, therapy

In the last few weeks there has been a lot of uproar about domestic violence in the light of the Ray Rice scandal and others as well. Professional soccer player Hope Solo is being charged with domestic violence (she assaulted her sister and her nephew) but she is still actively playing her sport and she is confident she will be aquitted. I cannot stress enough how important it is to hold men accountable for their abusive ways  against women, my concern when it comes to domestic violence and violence in general is WHY is it that we as women (and society at large) are quick to want to see the heads of violent men on a platter but are strangely silent when it comes to violence and abuse at the hands of women.. Just because we as women may not be able to utilize the same physical strength when it comes to violence does not mean that we are not capable of violent behavior ourselves. We have other ways of doing serious damage that leaves no forensic evidence many times. It is a sad thing in our society that many times abusive and violent women get a pass and we provide all kinds of excuses for her behavior regardless of the actions she has done or we just simply ignore it.

In my personal experience throughout my life I have experienced more violent expression at the hands of other females that I ever have a man (Even on my FB page). When I was in school all the way up until I graduated, the most violent aggressive behavior I ever saw coming at me or other young teenage girls was at the hands of other teenage girls!! I had a few skirmishes with the boys but those were no more than just foolish words and teasing, the girls were the ones that made my life and  the lives of many other girls hell not only because they could be mean spirited but could get violent and many times did. And again I and note hypocrisy that we will express outrage even as grown women if we hear a story on the news about a quarterback or two in high school who sexually assaulted young girl, but we will say nothing or hardly anything if that same teenage girl is ganged up on in a bathroom and bullied or beaten up by a bunch of insecure females sometimes simply because “she thinks she’s cute”.
We have no problem rejoicing over a man sent to prison for murdering his pregnant wife or girlfriend, but express sympathy or silence for woman who repeatedly runs over her husband with her Mercedes when she found that he was cheating on her (True story). She was “distraught” we justify. She beats the crap out of her kids? “Maybe she was stressed”, we justify. Same goes for things like pedophilia, we want that 35-year-old male math teacher castrated and locked up for sleeping with his 14-year-old female student but that 30-year-old female history teacher who was sleeping with her 15-year-old male student? She was just confused and lonely. And we never call her a pedophile which is what she is. We may express a little disgust at her but we certainly don’t riot in the streets and twitter it to death. She may even get her wedding to her now grown lover covered on Entertainment Tonight (Mary Lay Letourneau) and we don’t bat an eye.

If we are going to have this discussion, then we have to cover all the ground. I am not looking for “fairness” as much as I am unbiased accountability when it comes to things like this. We have plenty of stories about violent men, here are some quotes from people who have suffered DV at the hands of women:

“My friend had an abusive wife who hit him and kicked him in the balls. He called the cops and while he waited for them outside, she grabbed her own throat and squeezed hard and long enough to make a mark. Nobody noticed the mark was the same size as her tiny hand, they simply took her crying word for it & whisked him off to jail. He had to take a plea for domestic violence even though she didn’t want to charge him.”

“I’m a six foot one twenty two stone biker with military history and a vicious streak…
But only for other men…
I lived with a violent woman for too many years and she pushed me into a breakdown simply because the evil bitch knew I wouldn’t hit her on principle of being a real man…
Real men DONT hit women”

“Women are just as capable of violence as men. No one stepped to the man’s aid because no one thought he was in danger – because no one takes women seriously as a threat.”

“I never hit her back, but I was forced to restrain her a few times when she came at me with a knife all drunk or jumped on top of me and proceeded to punch me in the face continuously. I shoved her off of me once And she cut her foot on something real bad, but I had to because she WAS attacking me with a big heavy glass ashtray. needless to say I left her.”

“She spanked us without warning and pitted my sister and I against each other,” said the 45-year-old, who now works in a recording studio. “She was very clever at using emotional abuse to get my sister and I to do what she wanted. The two emotions I remember growing up were fear and obligation.”

“Pamela, now 52 and the mother of two, remembers her mother screaming that she hated the children, threatening to leave and never come back. “We formed a human chain against the door but she threw us to the side and left getting in her car and driving away.”

Pamela doesn’t know how long her mother was gone, but the “record player of her hateful words still play in my mind.”

According to the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention, an estimated 56 percent of all abusers — physical, mental and sexual — are women, The most common form is psychological. “Neglect and emotional abuse are every bit as damaging as sexual abuse.”, said Dr. Phillip Muskin, professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University. With these numbers, why are not women held to the same level of accountability  as men when it comes to abuse? Is it because many women are good at not showing evidence? Or manipulating the circumstances in their favor like one of the women above who squeezed her own neck to lie to the police to hide her assault against her boyfriend? I remember a girl I went to school with, a classic mean girl. She was an “A” student, student body president and the teachers loved her, but when the teachers and administrators were not looking, she was a monster. It was very hard to address her behavior because the teachers just could not “believe” she would do such things. I suspect that is how a lot of women get away with things as well because we as a society just cannot believe women the “frail flowers” they are capable of such manifestations of violence. A colleague of mine, a victim of bullying as a youth (female) had this to say:

“…in general females try to cover their tracks using the tendency of people to not believe that girls can be violent to their advantage.”

Many women complain about not being equal with men, but I think that’s more about the paycheck and the bigger corner office because when it comes to accountability about our own potential violent or abusive behavior we’re not as loud about it as we are with men. Somehow we justify it because their physical strength manifests the bruises and black eyes( and believe me when I tell you I am not excusing that behavior) but somehow we just can’t bring ourselves to be as outraged when a woman poisons her husband or boyfriend to death because there are no physical signs of bruising on his body or beats her children out of the house (literally). We operate in hypocrisy in the name of selective outrage. Why? Do we somehow believe in our minds that women simply are incapable of being dangerously violent on the same level as men? Or because statistically  the numbers are not that huge (so we think) so therefore it is not an issue.

We get pissed off at men who respond to our reactions to things by saying we are “hormonal” or “emotional” etc. How DARE they? But when our a** is on the line in regards to being held accountable just like the man for our outrageous behavior, then all of a sudden our va-jay-jays matter as well our hormones and emotions. we talk all day long about wanting to be equal with men and be a part of the boys club but funny we don’t want the accountability when we are caught like the men. Then come the tears and the pleas for “understanding” “I’m a girl,” we whine.

I am not bashing my own gender I am calling for accountability. BELIEVE ME I am very aware that globally women are the main victims of violence on all levels. What  I am addressing is the focus we give on the GENDER of the aggressor. A man hits a woman? We are pissed and we want his head.  A woman hits another woman or a man? Not so much. in fact if it is on a reality show we whip out the popcorn and enjoy the show.  Truthfully, when women are violent against men, it is met with humor and ridicule. “He is weak, he is a punk,” we say to ourselves never taking her violent behavior seriously but if that same guy rises to defend himself against her, he is the monster even if she is the aggressor in the altercation. After all he is supposed to exercise full self control and she is absolved of such a requirement because after all, she is a girl.

I’m a woman myself and as I said I don’t give men a pass, their mess goes without saying but I think we unfairly decide what denotes being violent. We automatically cosign against the violence if we see footage of a man beating his girlfriend unconscious or to death and we hashtag all about it, but what about a cancer research scientist whose lover refuses to dump his other girlfriend so she poisons his coffee in an attempt to kill him? (a true story trending in the news right now) SILENCE. Or a woman beats her kids almost to death? SILENCE. When the molester is a female? SILENCE. A female athlete assaults family members? SILENCE. When the bullies are girls? SILENCE. Yet when that same code of silence runs rampant in the NFL and other male dominated arenas on the matter, then we find our voices and verbalize quite loudly the outrage.

A member of my family was a victim of domestic violence as little girl along with her siblings but do you know the abuser was? Her MOTHER not her father. This lovely wife of a minister did this 50 to 60 years ago and she hid her violence under a slew of religious service and public performance. The community adored her, what a wonderful woman she was, but at home her kids knew a different person that had them terrified. She could not leave or escape and had to endure that abuse until she joined the military at the age of 17.

When it comes to domestic violence we always talk about the men but never the women and if we are going to have this discussion about violent behavior and we are going to be outraged, then we need to be outraged on both sides of the fence no matter who’s doing the hitting or the killing and stop using our va-jay jays conveniently as an EXCUSE to not be held fully accountable.

Bruises, injuries and death are not gender specific.

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Why are Some Folks Defending Child Abuse as ‘Black Culture?’ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/folks-defending-child-abuse-black-culture/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/folks-defending-child-abuse-black-culture/#comments Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:14:39 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33390 By Zac OnBothSides That thing you’re doing, where you defend child abuse along cultural lines, please stop it.  Adrian Petersons’ actions are not a referendum on how an entire culture disciplines their children. So you don’t have to defend it thusly.  And if you are connecting his actions to something traditional that supposedly the rest […]

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By Zac OnBothSides

That thing you’re doing, where you defend child abuse along cultural lines, please stop it.  Adrian Petersons’ actions are not a referendum on how an entire culture disciplines their children. So you don’t have to defend it thusly.  And if you are connecting his actions to something traditional that supposedly the rest of us don’t get, just take a deep breath and realize that’s utter nonsense.

I’m convinced many vocal supporters of Mr. Peterson decided they didn’t need to read the details. Except, that the details are all that matters in this case. This is not about spanking, or how group A raises their children versus how group B does it. This is about blood being drawn, genitals being injured, and multiple abrasions – all of that on a four year old child.   I’d rather folks just say, ‘You know what- I’m okay with ALL of that”  as opposed to saying he was wrong but he didn’t know any better. Because, ( wait for it…) this was how he was raised!  Please stop it.

This is also a slippery slope. One that I reject. If we are going to be apologists for the actions of those who use ‘It’s how I was raised’ as an excuse then we better rethink how angry we get at racists. I mean, after all,  babies aren’t bigots, so something happened during the course of their being raised-something was repeated, or taught, fused to the very marrow of that person who now walks amongst us harboring those intense feelings of hate.

Sorry, I’m not going for it.  I don’t care what you’re Grand-pappy told you about the ‘coloreds’- you will get no safe haven here.  The effort it takes to remain in a cocoon of ignorance vastly exceeds the minimal effort required to understand that no one deserves to be judged based on their ethnicity.

And if your defense of Adrian Peterson goes like this- “Well, what about the white father who just killed his 5 children”? You’re doing it wrong.  He should spend eternity in hell, immediately if not sooner. But unless you think all white parents are murders then what’s the point?  Mr. Peterson, in my opinion, didn’t fail as result of something cultural; he failed because his ignorance opened the door to something criminal, and he absolutely should have known better.

National stories are never solely about the main actors- this is about all of us. It’s also about a troubling trend that has far too many participants of all races. A trend wherein the idea of taking personal responsibility for ones actions is often the last resort.

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Black Militants Call ESPN Journalist, Jemele Hill “Race Traitor”; “Bed Wench” for Calling Out Ray Rice Disparity http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/black-militants-call-espn-journalist-jemele-hill-race-traitor-bed-wench-calling-ray-rice-disparity/ http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/black-militants-call-espn-journalist-jemele-hill-race-traitor-bed-wench-calling-ray-rice-disparity/#comments Tue, 09 Sep 2014 23:09:05 +0000 http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/?p=33153 I just have to say something. These so-called pro-black militants on Facebook who “claim” they only desire the betterment and advancement of black people honestly scare me. They have so much contempt for black women, so much seething hatred and need to for absolute control that to have these folks take over black society would […]

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I just have to say something. These so-called pro-black militants on Facebook who “claim” they only desire the betterment and advancement of black people honestly scare me. They have so much contempt for black women, so much seething hatred and need to for absolute control that to have these folks take over black society would be like the negro version of the Taliban. Yep; they’re that scary.

Jemele Hill made waves on her Facebook fan page today when she wrote the following post:

I don’t want to paint all black men with a broad brush, but I’ve got get this off my chest.

As the situation in Ferguson continued, I saw many black women standing next to their brothers supporting and protesting with them. We understand how cruel this world can be to black men, and black women have been the biggest advocates of black men throughout history.

But Ray Rice abuses a black woman ON VIDEO, and I’m appalled that some of you — not ALL, but enough to be alarmed — continue to staunchly defend this man and victim-blame his wife, who has been humiliated and abused.I don’t want hear about Solange, Chris Brown, or anyone else — much like you don’t want to hear about why you aren’t as concerned with black-on-black crime when you’ve been the victim of racism.I honestly want to know, why are some black men so determined not to protect and support us? Go.

The post got shared over 1,600 times, with those who supported her position (both black men and women) and those who  believe Hill is a “race traitor” and “bed wench” for questioning WHY so many in the black community demand support for fallen black men but remain silent–or worse–blame the victim–when instances of violence are directed at black women. I will not reference which pro-black, militant group called Hill these horrid names, because the individuals who run it are not beneath threatening individuals who cross them. Many of these groups are run by megalomaniacal sociopaths. And this is why black women need to start putting their needs first. I am unapologetic about telling black women to STOP muling for a community that only wants to BLEED, and BLEED, and BLEED their women until there is nothing left. This is why, no matter how much you march, how much you pray, there will be people in the community who will STILL hate you, but RESENT you because the still NEED you. When will you refuse to stop laying down to get your neck stepped on? Go toward supportive communities beyond racial lines. Let the criteria for entry in your circle be a genuine CONSIDERATION of YOUR needs, feelings and desires.

I am so disgusted at the amount of utter contempt some folks in the community have for black women, but in turn NEED them.  Too often, the black community will galvanize over an external threat, especially if it involves a white person, but they hear, see and speak no evil when it comes to the horrors we inflict upon each other. And frankly, the utter contempt that so many black people (male and female) have of black women has become so palpable and flagrant, more and more black women are beginning to question their willingness to open more veins for a community who believes a black woman’s place is beneath the foot of a black man, who has it firmly planted on her neck. Wake. Up.

On another note, I need to make clear that not every black man is with blaming black women for getting themselves beat up. Shared over 2,000 times on Facebook as a post by Julian Long, who said this:

Black men. Fellas. Brothers.

I need you to stop complaining about Ray Rice’s (much deserved and yet woefully insufficient punishment) RIGHT NOW.

When we – Black men are beaten, slain, left in the street and otherwise persecuted our sisters, our mothers, our women stand for us with nearly unilateral unwavering support. They march for us. They cry out our names and demand justice. They support us in our moments of quiet fear when we shed the bitter shameful tears of self-doubt and fatigue. If you cannot find it within you to get over your idol worship and stand up for our sisters when they are being abused and mistreated then you need to spend some serious time in reflection.

STOP looking for reasons to diminish Ray Rice’s actions.
“Well…it couldn’t have been that bad. She married him.”
It doesn’t matter.

“She should know he’s a big man and if provoked he’s gonna hit back”
It doesn’t matter.

“She charged at him”
It doesn’t matter.

“She hit him first”
It doesn’t matter.

“He’s trained to hit. He can’t stop it. It’s a reflex.”
Are you f*cking kidding me. That’s absurd and even if it were true IT DOESN’T MATTER.

When you say these kinds of things – when you look for ways to go easy on Ray Rice when you claim he’s “already been punished” you do two things – first you tell black women “Your lives and your sense of safety have less value to me than the recreational sports entertainment I watch ritually.” You tell the women who stand for you- cry for you- demand justice for you ––”thanks for all that but don’t mess with my game” You deny them any hope of feeling safe with you. You reinforce the perception that they are ALONE in their struggle. Which in turn signals to those who would further victimize them (you know- general society that places Black women at the very bottom of valued humans) that they are free to move at will.

The second thing you do is – and this is irony – you borrow from the script of people like supporters of Darren Wilson. Let’s compare notes…

“He shouldn’t have been in the street”
It doesn’t matter

“He should have listened to the cop”
It doesn’t matter

“They say he stole so he was in the mindset to resist arrest”
It doesn’t matter

“Cops are trained to shoot to kill. He couldn’t help it it was reflex..”
Are you seeing the terrifying parallel? IT DOESN’T MATTER.

Brothers. Recognize wrong and stand up for what’s right. Whatever happened between them and whatever they did to patch things up is irrelevant to the fact that no man has business hitting (let alone knocking out) any woman over a spat. He should regard the use of his body against her as lethal force and exercise restraint above all else.

Also stop sipping your damn tea.

IT IS YOUR BUSINESS

When one of our sisters is hurt, abused or in peril it’s OUR business. Because when somebody has us jammed against a car with 5 or 6 weapons drawn at us they sure as hell make it their business to monitor record and speak out. They throw themselves in peril to see us safe –– and you can’t manage as much as a a supportive facebook post?!

GTFOH. I mean it. we don’t need that sh*t in our community.

But of course, black men who actually DARE to defend black women and decry abuse often have their sexuality questioned, and are called simps.

 

Screen Shot 2014-09-09 at 3.26.35 PMThis is evidence that we CAN NOT all be one. We can not join hands with individuals who have open, vicious, and sadistic CONTEMPT for black women simply because they are black! There are too many groups of folks in the black community who are UTTERLY DISEASED. They are beyond reasoning with. Practice discretion in your social circles. Demand reciprocity of respect and concern. If YOUR needs are never at the forefront, then YOUR NEEDS are irrelevant. Are you okay with that?

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