From Brooklyn to Barcelona to Belgrade, This Expat Shows Us How International Love is Done

From Brooklyn to Barcelona to Belgrade, This Expat Shows Us How International Love is Done

From Brooklyn to Barcelona to Belgrade This Expat Shows Us How International Love is Done

Author : Ieishah Clelland

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Twitter is a trip.  I mean, you meet ALL kinds of CRAZY, and all kinds of SMART, TALENTED, and CLEVER tweeps.  Take Ieishah, a Brooklyn expat living where the wind blows her: and I must admit I like her so much I hate her.  (But just a little.)  *slurps her hot Haterade from a tea cup with her pinky sticking out like a TRUE lady*

Ieishah was so kind to share her globetrotting and international love experiences and advice with us here, but you can read more on her funky, chic blog.  She’s a kick-arse writer, and this BETTER not be the last time I see her up in here!

– Christelyn

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Dating Abroad: A Primer

By Ieishah Clelland

“Do you just stand in front of the UN headquarters to find boyfriends?” My interrogator was a Malaysian-born, British-bred filmmaker with whom I’d shared a handful of dates, spanning 2 continents over the last 10 years, before landing smoothly in the friend zone. I’m like, “Um, have we met?” I’ve been dating rainbow from age 13 and living abroad on and off since ’98. Before I even left New York there was the Turk who drove a mean vintage ride, and the Genovese, who survived a brain tumor. Since moving back to Europe in ‘07, there’s been an assortment of other Italianos, including The Tuscan, Dracula (whose duplex looked like the set of Interview with a Vampire), and The Stalker (I left him in Madrid. How’d he end up in Barça?). Then there was Peter-the-Catalan, a Dutch Olympic gold medalist, Argentinian McDreamy, Zeus (if God were Dominican, he’d look like him), the Belgian Billionaire, who shat money, and was the last man I loved before the Serb, who’s as brilliant and loving as he is tall (6’7). We won’t even talk about the impromptu dinner I had with a certain French football-soccer star that now lives in NY.

I’ve always loved the dating game, and dating abroad has been, like, the World Cup of it. Teams from all corners, crazy stiff competition, and fun, fun, fun! Whether your travel style is the country-to-country hop, or the expat thing (that’s me! I’m a nester!), it’s a stone’s throw from falling in love with the world to just falling in love. In all my experiences, I’ve come to the conclusion that for black women, dating beyond your borders ROCKS. Here’re 5 reasons why:

You play the Lead! From Homer’s Odyssey to Liz Gilbert’s Eat Pray Love human beings have been using the world as the backdrop for the epic search for self, for love (for self love!) and why? Because that. Mess. Works!! As black women, we’re socialized to not think of ourselves as the protagonist, the Cinderella, the Snow White, the girl who gets the guy and shoots light out of her fingers (True Blood fans??). When trying to not only find a life partner but also create the life you want, playing the lead, being that girl, is paramount. Traveling naturally puts you in the spotlight AND the driver’s seat.

Go Native! Mixing travel with your search for a mate also allows you to get your Margaret Mead on and experience a new destination from an insider’s POV. When I first moved to Barcelona, ‘Yes!’ was my favorite word. I almost never turned down invitations, especially with local men AND women. Thus I dated constantly and I routinely found myself in the hottest spots.

Sidestep Stereotypes! In the world beyond America, your blackness is seldom a barrier to being approached by men. In melting pots massive steaming cauldrons of foreign tongues and ethnic fealties like my beloved Barcelona, men are more likely to be wracking their brains trying to figure out what language to mack you in than to be worrying about if you’re a neck-rolling, gum-cracking ball buster who only wants black men. The first step, then– simply meeting men– tends to be easier because as per the cultural mores of MOST OF THE WORLD, men approach women. All women.

Options, options, options. Practice, practice, practice. The more ground you cover, the more people you meet and the more men you have available to you. The more men available to you, the more you get to flex your flirting muscles. Flirting is fun. Fun gives you a glow. Glow is sexy. Rinse and repeat.

You get prime time for a lifestyle redesign… Longtime reader (of fat juicy oyster) “Shay” wrote me last summer wanting to brainstorm ideas on how to move abroad. I answered in the form of a blog post on the pros and cons of her options, also soliciting advice from other readers. In the end, I counseled, it’s my firm belief that if you take that first step towards the attainment of a goal, the universe steps in and does the rest. Save some money, I said, and go. Fast-forward 6 months, and Shay writes again. “I’m moving to Ireland with my boyfriend…” Pump your breaks, lady!! Ireland? Boyfriend?

Apparently, she met an erstwhile Turk while traveling. Two years of platonic meet ups around the globe, and homeboy put it on her, Ottoman Empire-style. She decided to jump. What about a job? In anticipation of her eventual move, she’d saved up some cash, sold her gas-guzzler, and kicked rocks. Last I heard, she started playing violin again, picked up photography, and is lurving the land of the Leprechaun.

Mixing dating and travel is as much about finding your light as it is about finding a man. In both, one truism holds: Everywhere you go, there you are. You really can’t run from your problems. Simply changing scenery won’t automatically flip the script on a life in shambles or relationships that consistently come up fail whale. Ideally, the outward journey should mirror the inward journey, not replace it. Serious stuff aside, the food, the accents, the adventure… I mean, you could just stand outside the United Nations headquarters, but traveling is way better.

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She is living out Lil Wayne's dream, only things hers are dates.I love it.

lol, interesting and serious discussion going on. I have to say I agree with both Nikita and ieishah, they pretty much debunked the myth some might have about what to expect about European men or white men for that matter. Perhaps some of us have some reversed and absurd perception about these guys. I mean the line about German men not liking black chicks was hilarious.....they have the highest rate of interracial marriages to black/African women in Europe after UK and France. Heck, do to Orientalism, most German academic teach middle Eastern history and know more about the East than the Muslims.

ps. French women are obsessed with weight, but it has nothing to do with why they smoke. Smoking is a cultural norm all over EU, I'm more surprised to see a woman/girl who does not smoke. French women are just health conscious (ironically what with their smoking) and its very hard to find an out of shape person let along overweight....but they do have some sexy chicks who are on the heavy sites. I know French girls in the fashion industry and some are not size 4 or 8 for that matter.

You make some good points, but I get CRAZY when people intentionally misrepresent what someone else said in order to make a point.

THIS is what was said about German men and black women:

"My friend who I grew up just came back from Berlin and she said the German guys love American black women, but not any fat American black women, or any fat American women in general. She was there five years and is now here with her German husband. She isn’t skinny, but she isn’t fat either."

As one can see, that statement is a long way from your statement that you attribute to them:

"Perhaps some of us have some reversed and absurd perception about these guys. I mean the line about German men not liking black chicks was hilarious…..they have the highest rate of interracial marriages to black/African women in Europe after UK and France."

The previous commenter didn't say that German men don't like black chicks, she said they love black chicks, they just don't like fat black chicks. Or fat American women in general.

You purposefully misrepresented what the other commenter said in order to make your statement carry more weight, and that is just plain wrong of you to do. It's a fabrication.

Let's stick to the facts, shall we?

@ Elaine,

Once I got over myself, I did have a good time. We did go to Seoul, but just for a few hours and we were mainly in the touristy shopping areas. So I didn't get to see much of the city, other than from the motorcoach. My experience was limited because, in addition to the trip being a guided tour, we were only there for about a week. Because the trip was sponsored by Daewoo, a company trying to enter the US market by targeting college students (this was in 1999, after my Junior year), we mainly saw their various facilities, with a touristy stop here and there. Not much time for exploring at all.

Not complaining, though - I was a broke college student who was fortunate enough to go on all all-expenses paid trip to the other side of the world (small-town girl who had barely been out of my home state, never been on a plane, but had always wanted to explore the world!). I feel you on the travel bug! Once it has a hold of you, it never lets go, lol.

Oneika,

You just made me a fan of your blog. it is so insightful and vivid. So far the only blogs that are worth following are Christelyn Karazin and Lola Akinmade. Are you on facebook?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Oneika! I've posed several questions to Ieishah upthread, but please feel free to elaborate on your experiences as well! Off to read your blog!

Hi Ali!

Thanks for the warm welcome. I will definitely stick around.
"Nikita" was my nickname in Mexico... Most people from back home call me "Nika" for short, and in Spanish "Nikita" became the diminuitive/pet name born from "Nika"... It just kind of stuck!

Most definitely weight issues vary depending on person/culture/country. But I think that we should stop selling ourselves short just because we aren't size zeros/twos/fours or "barbies dipped in chocolate". Then again, as mentioned in previous posts, being obese isn't attractive to many men at all, no matter what race.

Mel, I sometimes feel like North American white men have more racial hangups and that it is somewhat more taboo to date interracially (black women with white men) in Canada and the States. I'm guessing that it's normal seeing how the civil rights movement took place only a little over a generation ago and race relations are still tense. While I dated interracially even as a teen, I feel like most of the white guys I knew in Canada expected me to be the loud-talking, lip-smacking, neck rolling black chick that is portrayed again and again in the American media (both television and film), and thus were afraid to approach me, or convinced I wouldn't be "into" white guys. I feel like white European guys...

Elaine, thanks so much for the compliment! And as for going abroad- definitely do it!

"I think it’s more a matter of putting yourself out there, having fun on your own terms (i.e. not going out solely for the purpose of finding a man) and giving off friendly/approachable vibes. Non-black guys from outside of the U.S./Canada don’t think twice about stepping to a sista, I think that’s more of a North American white guy thing."

Can we do a blog on this North American white guy thing? Are most of the wm bw date European? What's the issue with North American white men?

I can't speak for everyone's experience, but seeing that all (but one) of the white men I dated were North American -- from the U.S. to be exact -- I think we might be too quick to dismiss them as having an "issue" with dating black women.

The first white man to ask me out with a good ole country boy from West Virginia. Then there was the hunter from North Florida... the cop from small-town Michigan... the Jewish social worker from Ohio... the new age hippie from suburbia...

And then Mr. Right, who grew up in rural Pennsylvania in a town with one black family.

I dunno, I guess after being asked out by the first guy, I threw away all assumptions about the national origins of white men most likely to be interested in me.

Bunny 77, agree with the post I think we're all getting some bad information about white guys in general whether they be European, American, and Canadian. Because I can't attest to European men but I can attest to white men in America and I've never had an issue finding a guy that wanted to date me. I married one, divorced him and now I'm about to marry another one so it happens all the time. I think people should maybe spend less time on the internet trying to figure out the magic formula to get a 'rainbow man' and actually go out there and do something to find one. Because believe me, he will not be stepping up to your door and knocking on it to sweep you off your feet. I've dated a few white men and you're right no two are alike, just like I want them to see me as individual it would behoove us to treat them the same.

Eugenia, I, too, think people should spend less time on the internet and more time out in the field. The point of the post was about why it's cool to widen your field to include travel and dating and I make a point of foregrounding experience. The paradox is that even setting about this project necessitates being on the damn internet, but that's the nature of this particular beast. Thanks for saying that, because in the end, that's the point, isn't it?

And congrats on your upcoming nuptials!!

Ieishah, well I enjoyed the post and I'm enjoying your blog and Nikita's. I'll be sending them both to my 3 nieces (13, 14, and 21 yrs old) to read, they need to know they don't have to live and die in the same spot. I personally married a fool when I was in my mid-twenties and should have left him alone and moved to London like I was planning. But now that I've found a wonderful person to share my love of travel, I've been dragging him all over the North America, South America and Europe are next. Thank you for the congrats.

That's nice that North American men approach you all everyday and flower you all with compliments often. It only makes sense that this blog would attract bw who have success with IR. But for the typical bw interested in starting IR, it's not that simple. If it was, these black women who want to find true love and marry non-bm need to travel outside of the US posts wouldn't be so numerous.

I'm glad to hear about bw and positive IR experiences because I don't get to see it in real life and it gives me hope. But again, like I said before, these North American white men approach me all of the time and propose marriage every time I leave the house/if a BW is skinny/attractive she will have to beat rainbow men off with a stick kind of posts aren't really helpful for the bw this blog is trying to help date IR (or atleast I hope it was made to help bw like me). I know this isn't intentional, but it just gives off this slightly pretentious vibe. Like wm/rainbow men approach me as a bw all the time, so what the hell is wrong with you? kind of thing.

Hey. I just want to say to Ieishah that I really appreciate your blog. I've been reading it for a few months now. I commented one time that I couldn't decide between Barcelona or Madrid and you said you would make a post about them both. Anyway you blog inspired me a lot. I've made up my mind I'm going to move abroad next year once I've completed my CELTA program in Miami. I am also considering Rome too! Thanks for the advice about just making the leap and not feeling scared about making the move. Christelyn, your blog is wonderful as well. I found it through fatjuicyoyster. lol

I just wanted to say good luck with your CELTA program! I am too planning to take the CELTA course next year, hopefully in NYC, so I can teach abroad again. I'm looking at doing ESL teaching South Korea, Japan, and China, but I'm really open to being anywhere.

Thanks Elaine. Hopefully everything goes well.

Melissa, ugh! Do you know how many times I promise someone a post and then get sidetracked? I'll put it on deck for this month. Sorry! BTW, Rome would be a great choice; I don't know much about the teaching industry there I say this b/c in Spain it's virtually recession-proof) but as a city, it's one of Europe's top 5 for an expat, I'd say.

Hi guys,

I just found this post via the "fat juicy oyster" blog (by the way, love the blog, lady! you inspired me to start my locks!) and was surprised to see my very own blog ( http://oneika-the-traveller.blogspot.com ) mentioned in Ali's post.

Yes, I am a black girl who lives abroad (currently living in Hong Kong) who dates interracially. I date the whole rainbow. Always have. Always will. It's just never been a big deal to me, nor has it been a big deal for my non-black partners. Maybe even less so for them. You like who you like.

I am wondering though, where are people getting this info about German men only liking skinny white girls?? My current boyfriend is German, born and raised in Berlin, and is white as snow with freckles. He approached me, in dark-skinned, short-dreadlocked, bootylicious glory, in a club. He says he approached me because I looked like I was having such a good time and he wanted to share in that joy. He finds me attractive, even though I'm not tall, size-zero white chick with long hair. Most of his friends have dated all over the map race/size- wise. Also, Germany is not that "white" of a place, at least not in the big cities in Berlin. Lots of ethnic, mixed folks there. Particularly Germans of Kurdish/Turkish descent. I'm pretty sure that they aren't looking for size-zero white chicks.
So... um whatever... I guess. *shrugs shoulders*

Maybe I'm not really making sense. But I think Ieishah was dead on when she said that a lot of the people talking/writing about "what Europe is like for black people" and "what white European guys want in a women" are the same people who have been to Europe ONCE on a Contiki tour package where they stop over in 14 countries in as many days. How the heck can one speak with authority about something they don't really know/ have never lived?

This comment about all French women smoking to stay thin is kind of ridiculous. I lived in France for two years, in two distinct regions (northwest and southeast). French women are pretty slim. But as Ieishah mentioned, this is due to the natural active lifestyle (i.e. walking everywhere).

Sure, being overweight/obese is gonna be an issue. But you certainly don't have to be a size 0 or 4 or 6. Pretty and big is sure as hell more attractive than skinny and poorly put together.

I have never had a problem dating any race. I've lived in France (2 years), Mexico (1 year) and now going on two years in Hong Kong. I think it's more a matter of putting yourself out there, having fun on your own terms (i.e. not going out solely for the purpose of finding a man) and giving off friendly/approachable vibes. Non-black guys from outside of the U.S./Canada don't think twice about stepping to a sista, I think that's more of a North American white guy thing.

Anyway, that's my two cents...

Oneika aka Nikita the Traveller
http://oneika-the-traveller.blogspot.com

Welcome Oneika/Nikita!

Just discovered your blog, I think it was Vonnie who first mentioned it in a post a few weeks ago, and I am loving it!

On weight issues, (wheter in NYC or Berlin or in Hong Kong or in Paris just in general) opinons and experiences vary, and you may be surprised to find that there are women here who have spent more than 'two week Conti tours' in Europe who may disagree with you.

That being said, your two cents on this and anything else is welcome here . . . . . . .stick around.

On a side note - why the Nikita? Just curious.

Whoa! So much inspiration on this post :D Oneika/Nikita, I just want to say thanks for sharing your stories of being a world traveler and teacher. I want to do the same [teach abroad in different countries] for several years, then come back to teach in public schools in the States. All this is making me realize that is indeed possible to do so. Now off to read some more of the blog . . .

Preach, Nikita! Thanks for commenting and sharing your similar peripatetic story!

Ummm...let's hear more about Thierry Henry.... ;-)

NerdNegress I LOVE your name! I use a similar one on other sites. Thanks for the support and please do post more often when you come around!

Neecy I think you are cool but overly emotional on this single issue, that's all.

Long-time lurker here, coming out of lurkdom. I have to line up with Amber T and Ali on this. I thought that their observations were pretty valuable. And, I have to agree that the strident reactions to what they wrote seem to be about some personal stuff going on in those commenters' lives. I don't think Amber T and Ali said anything the least bit objectionable.

But the response to what they said was way out of proportion to the comments.

Neecy, I've gotten a lot of good insight and info from reading your comments over the last couple of months, but I thought your outsized reaction on the comments posted by these two women was unwarranted.

Now retreating back into lurkdom...

@ Amber and Nerdnegress -

Yep, this thread grew and grew . . . . . . . .just came back to it, it does kind of make you chuckle and shake your head. The funniest thing is, in my response to M, I never told her to lose weight - I think I recommened that she see a dating coach and read some old posts on the issue.

To me, if somebody like M is that fit and working out that much, they are prob. not meant to be smaller . . . .but of course, people will read what they want . . . .

When it comes to this issue, some are going to get it, so won't . . . . . for us maybe weight is not something we struggle with, for others - I think it's a part of their lives that carries a real emotional pain, because they feel they have no control over it. So there's a need to 'lash out' at the messenger.

Others just like to be contrary, for the sake of it. Others are working a personal agenda . . . .at the end of the day, it's not that serious.

If someone clings to a certain dogmatic belief or ideology, even if it's not getting them what they want, it must be serving them in some way . . . . . . . . .and who am I too say that that way is right or wrong?

If you're happy in life, keep doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting what you're getting. In othere words - if you're overweight or obese and you've got suitors lining up around the block, don't worry about what I think.

We're all adults here, we can all make our own decisions.

Ok... I'm gonna make a few points here, and then leave this convo alone. I'm far from obsessed with my weight, just because I want to get down to a smaller size does not mean it is all I care about in life lol. I have a lot of balls in the air and making an effort to tone up some more is only one of many.

I'll address my comments to Neecy, since she addressed hers to me.

- The advice to slim down in order to be more appealing to NYC's WM was given in response to a poster who LIVES IN NYC and wants to date a WM who lives there, but is not having success. So honestly, any advice other than how to make herself more appealing to NYC's WM would be ludicrous! Nobody said NYC is the center of the earth, but that's where M lives. Why would she care about what WM in Boise, Idaho or Chicago or LA want when she LIVES IN NYC???

- I never said all, some or none. Life is not full of absolutes. Only a child or a fool things otherwise. When you try to refute what I said by saying "Not all of XYZ is like this or that" it looks just silly, because I never said ALL of xyz are abc. It's called a straw man argument.

-I never said I was the world's greatest authority on WM. I know that lots of WM do like thicker women, but apparently "m" is not meeting those men, or else she would have dates right now, KWIM? So she needs to broaden her appeal, we can see that from the results she is getting (no dates).

- Of course men don't know the numerical size to use to describe a woman's size, but that does not mean they are unaware of the physical size of a woman's body. Men are very astute about those matters, even if they lack the relevant language to use to describe it.

- Which brings me to my next point. You harped on the fact that I used size 4 to describe my fitness goal. We are all strangers zillions of miles away from one another on a message board. How am I supposed to describe a person's physical size without using some objective descriptor? lol, I can't spread my hands apart and say I want my thighs to be such a such size, because you can't see me! We all wear clothes, and hence clothing size becomes a useful way to express what we mean relevant to body size. It's no deeper than that.

- Yes, men love curves. My body is VERY curvy. I wear a 38H cup bra and have a small waist with wide hips. But shape and size are not equivalent. You can be a smaller sized woman with curves, or you can be a ruler shaped woman who is of a large size. Being a smaller curvy woman has more mass appeal than being a larger curvy woman, it is what it is. My body is almost cartoon-like in how curvy it is. I love that, so does my husband *smile*. I wouldn't want to look like a stick, whether that stick is size 4, 14, or 24. As to your assertion that I might look like crap in a 10, lol, honey I do not. I look fab in a 10. I think I'll look fab in a 4 as well.

-Neecy, you admit that nobody wants a fat woman, or an overweight woman. Finally, a point on which we agree! The thing is, the definition of what fat/overweight is varies. In Vietnam they would think I'm an elephant walking down the road in a 10 lol. In Texas I'd be skinny. If you want to appeal to a man of a certain demographic, you will have more success if you fall within HIS range of what is appealing. Is that so complex to understand? If I wanted a Vietnamese man (who is used to tiny women) I could get one, I am sure of it. Men who like different shapes/sizes of women exist in EVERY culture. However, my success at getting a Vietnamese man would be greater if I were smaller.

-Finally, Neecy, you admit that at your current size men look and flirt a bit but don't ask you out. You've said your friend gets similar reactions and you attribute this to being larger. Well... doesn't that fall 100% exactly in line with what I have said? That those guys like your face and aren't put off by your race, but being a bit larger makes them less motivated to ask you out? So if that's the one thing keeping them from asking you out, changing that would make them ask you out, yes? So WHY ARE YOU MAD when you have essentially said the same thing I did?

I think perhaps some personal issues may be at play in your response. Hit dogs will holler. With that said, I generally like your posts and usually agree with you. On this topic however, you are being a bit extra with it.

Eugenia said:

"eecy, you’re right. I’m positive that there are not a huge population of men that want overweight women, heck I don’t want an overweight/obese man."

Well, yeah! Who does? Who wants to go out with the Pillsbury Dough Boy?

As long as we're talking about European guys, give me an attractive Irish, Scottish, or British man in a tailored suit. Attractive man plus attractive suit plus attractive accent, and I am all over that!

Day-umm!

Gina, I was just saying something nothing in that implied that everybody else was willing to take the Dough Boy I wasn't willing to take, maybe it was redundant but I'll stand by that statement LOL.

This was a great blog.

I agree with those who said that "M" has self-esteem and maybe attitude issues.

M, read more articles about having a POSITIVE ATTITUDE. Most men appreciate a truly POSITIVE woman. ENOUGH of the negative talk. We are what we think.

THINK POSITIVELY. RELAX. LEARN TO ENJOY YOUR SURROUNDINGS. ASK MEN POSITIVE AND UPLIFTING QUESTIONS, keep the negative at home.

Become more POSITIVE and I believe you will be OK.

Most women who are small and attractive looking will have men jumping out of the bushes at her.

Ladies, you are educated and intellectual. The key to living your life is happiness. Why worry about someone telling you that a certain size or weight should be the norm when attracting a white man. You do not need a book to tell you the 10 steps to suceeding in
life when you have the ball in your court. The European women and Black women have nothing in common with your heritage. Don't get brainwash by what people think what is best for you. We all have common sense that a healty lifestyle will lead to prosperous life. Who cares about being a size 0 4 6 to attract a white man. Wow it seems that some of you are making seems that the white European man is god. Get a grip, life goes on. To each is own and their are many nationalies of men out there. Work on you first. The right man will come at the right time. No need to waste your time on a 100 page self book that want you to change yourself for a man. Life is a book and you make your own story. Always associate yourself with like minded indiviual who is not going to tear you down. Black women rocks!

Thanks for the great guest post Christelyn! And kudos to Ieisha for your well written article. I nodded my head in agreement with absolutely everything that was said. Great piece!

I am as of this moment on my third continent (Europe, Africa, and North America) and my fifth country (UK, Nigeria, USA, France and Canada). I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything in the world. I tell anyone who will listen that my experiences in these different places HAS made me who I am. And I can only hope that continues to remain true.

I do admit I have had a slight leg up courtesy of my parents who gave birth to me in the UK, took me back home to Nigeria for some "home training", moved me back to the UK for secondary school and encouraged me to attend university in the US.

On my own, I chose to work for a year in France, then moved back to the US for graduate school, met my husband, and we moved together to Canada! I'm excited because with our current employment situation, we have either the Middle East or South America in our near future. I pray that everything continues to work out for us.

I am very lucky for these experiences and I wish my fellow sisters out there the same abundant opportunities in your near futures! Don't be scared, don't let people put you down and just remember you've only got this one life. Make sure you live it unapologetically :-)

p.s. Do NOT underestimate the power of multiple languages. It opens doors and people's minds in a way that is hard to explain. Language is culture and knowing a language really draws one into said culture.

Beautifully said Naina! Best of luck to you and the hubby in your travels

Thank you Monique! Much appreciated :-)

Best of luck to you in all that you do and are planning to do!

Co-sign Naina! Great story you have there! If you end up in South America (depending on where, of course) I have just the people you need to talk to... Don't be a stranger.

Hey Daphne! I'd already got from your earlier comment that you appreciated and took something positive from my post. Still, thanks for articulating that!

On to your questions, sort of.

Why Spain? Moving to Spain was an emotional decision. I'd already lived in 5 countries before that and I speak Spanish, so just sort of went... to see. The reasons I stayed were more concrete. It's simply easier, given the very casual Spanish character for foreigners to set up shop. Easier than, say, France or the UK. Neither is impossible (I did 3 yrs in the UK and 1 in Paris), but Spain is simply easier (cities are smaller & easier to socially navigate than London or Paris, for ex) if you aren't going with a job lined up. The crisis is regrettably changing this, but in the end, I went and realized 2 months later that I had a job, a flat, this whole support system and the beach (!!) . So I said, "Okay. Here." This is a good question, and there's more to the answer. It's a post I think.

The second question is easy. I miss my fam a lot and when I'm here, it's so difficult to leave. I've been in NY a month and just decided to extend my stay 2 more weeks. On the other hand, I crave travel. It's that simple. I drag my parents around with me at least once a year. Helps with the homesickness.

Lastly, question 3 is definitely a post. Prolly a few posts. That's what the 'sort of' was about ;-P

BTW, NEECY?? Wherever you're at? I love you. Your comment almost got me emotional. Almost mad me wish I was a dude. I'd do you if I were.

Thanks for your response! Your insights on Spain are interesting indeed! Especially given the recent American news that blacks are unwelcome in Spain, which you referenced in an earlier comment.

Bring on the posts to questions 1 and 3!

I have more questions, beware of the barrage:

About expat living - were there any......modern conveniences you enjoyed in the US that you found were missing, or reduced, in your countries of residence?

Did you have any challenges with obtaining visas in a country? Do you have any challenges with entry/exit within the US?

Do you have dual (or multiple) citizenship? If so, does that ease travel within continental Europe?

Seems like you have a diverse group of friends. Have you found it easier to connect with people outside of the US compared to within the US? Is female cattiness a global (or perhaps more specifically, a European) issue, lol? Or have you not come across it at all?

You sound like an extrovert. Do you have any friends who are introverts? If so, have they shared their perspective on social navigation in their countries of residence? I have a vested interest in this question, as I fall pretty firm on the introversion scale of things. The US is definitely a culture that values extroversion, so I wasn't sure if countries within Europe are similar, on that scale.

OK, I think I've asked enough questions!

Daphne, we're going to do it like this: the questions I don't answer, assume I'll tackle them in a future post. I've written them all down (giving me homework & ish!!) but some I can answer briefly.

I have a work and residency visa that I once renewed, will be good for 5 years. After 5 years, I can apply for citizenship. I'll never do that. I actually like being American and will never abandon my citizenship. Sounds a little red state, but that's how I feel. I may take dual citizenship if/when children are born, just so that the whole family's on the same page, but many countries don't allow that. We'll see.

Obtaining my visa was more than challenging. It was hell. Some of the story is on my blog, but I'll probably try to tackle it in a future post. Problem is that the process is different for each country.

I never have any problems exiting or entering the US. One of the many reasons I'll never give up my citizenship. The other thing as the being American eases travel between European countries.

Cattiness is indeed global. Honestly, I experience most among AA's who just don't get me, or people who think they understand AA's and so, just don't get me. I handle it the same there as here as anywhere: recognize it and keep moving.

I am actually not an extrovert! I'm a Cancer, honey, with a big old shell around my soft & squishy exterior... LOL... I'm an introvert with extrovert tendencies. However, (and this goes back to the first reason why travel & dating is cool), being on the road intensifies the feeling that this is your life, your story and you're the author. More often than not, people approach you and are curious about you. You can do 'ok' even with the most basic social skill. Whether or not Europe values extroversion in the way that American does, I'm not sure. Gonna have to think about that one.

Don't be shy about asking your q's, sis, they're helpful for future posts!

I am actually not an extrovert! I’m a Cancer, honey, with a big old shell around my soft & squishy exterior… LOL… I’m an introvert with extrovert tendencies.

I stand corrected! Glad to know a fellow introvert! I read one of your posts that referenced how you prefer connecting with people over taking photos, so I incorrectly assumed extroversion. I've never been one for taking a gazillion photographs, either; I'm more focused on the experience itself. I tend to think photographs are for others' benefits rather than my own, especially since they are requested by those who don't want to/believe they can't travel.

More often than not, people approach you and are curious about you. You can do ‘ok’ even with the most basic social skill.

Good to know!

Looking forward to your posts......a couple more questions:

Have you always had the travel bug? Or did you begin travel due to your academic pursuits?

I've often heard shopping is more expensive in Europe - I traveled to Florence and Rome a couple of years back, and it did seem expensive. But I chalked that up to: 1) being in more touristy areas, 2) not being well-traveled, and thus having less of a sense of costs abroad. What are your thoughts?

Hey, Daphne. You were not directing this at me, but I will add that it's so weird how black people can experience different things in the same place. I was planning to move to Madrid for 2-3 years to teach ESL, but when I got over there, I indeed experienced alot racism there in such a short period of time (4 months). However, I did get a lot of love the students, especially my 1st graders, of the school. I only had once "racial" incident at the school where this 5 year old said there were two monkeys in the room, me and the stuffed one (in spanish, out loud mind you). Other than that, I experienced most of the racism while just trying to live there, especially while trying to find an apartment.

Meanwhile, if you ask some other BW who lived in Madrid and especially, in Barcelona, the stories are totally different. So some BW experienced it, others don't. I always chalk my experience there to bad luck, because the things that happened to my friend and me were just pure craziness. I also like to say that, based on my experiences in Madrid, that there is racism against Africans and Latin/Caribbean Americans, too, mostly due to the great number of undocumented workers/people there. I mean you know how during times of crisis, all the blame is shifted over to the immigrants, unjustly I might add. Anyway, I say all this to say, you shouldn't let that stop you from living over there or anywhere. I am kicking myself now because I felt I should have fought harder to stay over there, especially since I loved my job there. I should have ignored a lot of things and stood up for myself. Again, that was only my experience, and I know for a fact not all BW experience the same things over there. Maybe Ieishah could chime in more about that. I am mostly curious because it seems Barcelona is a lot more race friendly, since most, if not all, BW I know who lived there never had a problem there.

Oh I might add that there is a lot of Obama love over there. Every time we told people that we were Americans, the people would yell "Obama!" lol. Every.single.time. You saw how they showered Michelle O with gifts while there . . .

Elaine, thanks for sharing your experience while in Spain. And thank you for the encouragement despite your experiences there! Based on some of your previous posts (not here, but another post, can't recall which), you mentioned living and teaching ESL in Asia? Was it South Korea? Do you still plan to do that?

I went to South Korea in college, but didn't fully appreciate the experience because 1) that was my first trip outside the States, and I hadn't done any research on what to expect 2) it was July, and it was hotter than Hades, and 3) it was a guided (and sponsored by Daewoo so free for me) tour, so there wasn't much freedom in exploring on your own - which is what I prefer.

Yes, Daphne. It's still in my plans to go to teach in South Korea, and if not there anywhere in Asia or South America by next year. I have a travel bug, and the more I am here in the States (and the more I read expat stories abroad) the more I am ready to get out of here!

Besides the lack of freedom and heat, did you have a good time there? Did you go to Seoul?

:-/ Elaine, do you know Lori Tharps, author of Kinky Gazpacho? She's got a blog too, www.myamericanmeltingpot.com I think. She did a study abroad in Spain (where she met her husband) and experienced lots of racism as well. We're always at odds about exactly how racist Spain is. (I LOVE and very much respect Lori, for the record.)

I'm in the process of doing a Race In Spain survey among my girls in Spain, all black, some have lived there for over 20 years. So far, I've surveyed just less than 50 women. Most have experienced some racism, normally of the kind you describe in the classroom, once maybe twice. But I mean, I was once harassed by a skinhead right in front of Big Ben in London. In front of Big Ben! I assume that if you're going to travel, you have to be ready for people to be ignorant. If you're looking to go somewhere people aren't ignorant.... I've been around more than my share. Ain't no such place.

Elaine, when you say, 'I could kick myself for not fighting harder', I've heard this before. Even Lori, mentioned above, has said this. Judy O. (she's my INSIDES in Barça and was interviewed by Nelson George for Black Atlas, y'all should all check it out!) has lived in Spain for more than 20 years, back when police were still stopping black folks in the street. What we go through these days is nothing compared, and she's still there. (Thank God! Don't know what I'd do w/o her!) My survey... I wish I could share with you guys some of the amazing stories these women have. However, none of them say that Spain is too racist.

Daphne! So yes, I've always had the travel bug. I just found a box with things from the first time I lived abroad in Costa Rica. That was a decade ago. It's my parents' fault. They are journeyman and woman!

And as for shopping, as with anywhere, you just gotta know where to go! There are so many great little boutiques in Paris, for example, that I only found about 2 yrs ago, from 2 boys I picked up in a shoe shop (they worked there). And this was AFTER I'd spent a year living in Paris! But while I was living there I had my group of friends, my routine and managed to miss A LOT. It can be more expensive in Europe just on account of the exchange rates, but if you know where to go, you can find good deals.

Oh and Elaine, people yell Obama! and Beyonce! at me before I even say anything! I don't look like none of 'em... strange, but I'm not mad. Could be a lot worse.

Oh, yes, Lori Tharps! I read her book "Kinky Gazpacho", which actually made me feel a little bit better about my decision to go to Spain (I didn't want to go a first, I really wanted to live in Puerto Rico and Dom Rep, but that's another story). The racism she experienced I didn't think would happen to me, interestingly enough. However, when I got over there, I felt as if I was reliving her story. I will say looking back now, I don't totally regret going there. I learned a lot about myself there, and how I needed to get a backbone to survive in this world! I'm still working on that, though.

Hi Ladies,

I would suggest:

- Learn to get comfortable with making direct eye contact and smiling.( I still trying to get comfortable with this myself)

- Pick just 3 physical must haves on a guy.( I use to have a full page list I had to throw that out- totally unrealistic)

- I too live NYC and it's not true that the men here are mostly into thin women. From my experience, they love curves as long as there in the right places and you're toned and fit. I have read many
studies that say that most men (including wm) like curvy women as long as the woman is toned and fit. I remember the last time I was online dating(Match.com) and when I read what most of the wm were looking for in terms of body type. The majority of them had curvy and athlete checked off, this is the combination most men prefer. I believe very few of them just wanted slim women. I believe ww and aw all want to look like the supermodels and the actresses they see in media because they think that's what men want.

Furthermore, I only want to hear about journalists and social scientists if they’re cute and single.

Bwah! Can't.take.it.

I didn't mention this in my two posts upthread, but thanks for the post, Ieishah. I've been reading your blog, and my favorites thus far are the posts about Mastering the Expat Life.

Questions:

What was it about Spain, vs another country, that made you want to live there?

You've been living abroad for several years now. Do you ever miss living in the United States? After living outside of the US for so long, do you prefer expat living?

Any thoughts on cultural differences between American men and (insert country here) men that we need to know?

Good question! Love to hear the answers.

P.S.
101 comments! :-)

Back on topic:

In keeping with the spirit of the ORIGINAL INTENDED POST and message (by the lovely Ieshah), this is why its so important for BW to get off the computers and stop listening to what others say and live life like Ieshah has.

I guess once you do that, comments by particular people on a blog become meaningless in a sense, especially if they are not uplifting.

Hence, why i need to step away from the computer, WORK ON MY FITNESS (LOL) and start living life on my terms and not based on what other individuals believe is the be end all end of life, love and happiness.

Thank you Iesha for really pointing out what really matters in life - living it and doing it. And thank you for having the CREDIBILITY to speak on such topics b/c you have lived it and are doing it.

Its been fun and real folks. Chrystelyn - AMAZING work you put into this blog and i really appreciate it. Can't wait for your book.

I don't know how it works where you ladies are, but me meeting a guy and telling him something like this:

"Hey, I'm overweight, but I have a great attitude about myself and besides, you should just like me for who I am cause that's the right thing to do"

well, that is not going to be successful. If that's working for you, then more power to you, but I just can't see that having much effect on guys in general. They're gonna like what they're gonna like, not what you tell them they should like. Whether that's here or in Europe.

My friend who I grew up just came back from Berlin and she said the German guys love American black women, but not any fat American black women, or any fat American women in general. She was there five years and is now here with her German husband. She isn't skinny, but she isn't fat either.

I don't think disregarding your weight as a potential factor in getting guys attention is a good strategy. Guys really put a lot of value on looks.