No Disrespect but….I Could Give a [bleep!] About Your Religious Views (A Big Rant About a Quiet Topic)

No Disrespect but….I Could Give a [bleep!] About Your Religious Views (A Big Rant About a Quiet Topic)

I’m sure after reading this some people will feel offended that I did not use words that make them feel good about their spiritual practices. And to that, I say, that you don’t get extra points because you feel that your membership on “Team Jesus” deserves brownie points.

Author : Tracy Renee Jones

Author's Website | Articles from

http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/goddess-of-the-week-tracy-renee-jones-too-fly/

Before I even get started on this article, I want to make it clear that in no way, shape or form am I attempting to be neutral or kind in my assessment of the validity of religion.

I can’t even promise to make sense of it all because the phenomena has been baffling me for decades now.

And I’m sure after reading this some people will feel offended that I did not use words that make them feel good about their spiritual practices. And to that, I say, that you don’t get extra points because you feel that your membership on “Team Jesus” deserves brownie points.

See, that’s the entire problem with religion, it only exists through self appointed importance.. and that shit ain’t real to me.

Others will read this piece and feel that I am being disrespectful in my criticism of the amount of value society places on the existence of religion. To this, I respond, that it is not disrespectful to question the validity of anything that one prescribes to, especially when that existence affects my life in ways that I am not comfortable with. So fuck you, too.

It is my opinion that the practicing, promoting, and teaching of religion as a viable social construct is pointless, intruding and archaic.

No, disrespect…

It really bothers me that our culture claims to be one of equality and mutual respect but it is not; and yet we know it is not, but we turn our heads or whisper behind closed doors at our frustration rather than speaking out about it and pushing for change.

So it is for this reason that I state my opinion and do so with all the logical clarity I can muster though I may not choose words to ease the blow of my statement.

Oh, frickin’ well…

The problem is that America has a cult mentality, which is the direct result of our values based on a tradition of “rock star” idol worship that has been ingrained in our country’s social system.

When individual property laws came into existence, humans began to live in a world of have’s and have not’s, and its since that time that I believe that humans began to wander around aimlessly seeking ways in which they can obtain power.

Once power and resources were dispersed unequally among humans, the fight began to control the people, and the resources, which are usually one and the same thing.

How else does a singular group of people control the unmet needs of the multiple common man?

They do it by tricking him into thinking he does not deserve to have his needs met (you’re not saved); they trick you into thinking you do not want the things that you desire (its wrong to want power and sex) and they do that by convincing him that he already has what it is that he wants but he’ll just have to wait to receive it (sit at the almighty table upon your death, great!).

Humans are lost and think they need religion because they’ve been conditioned to feel inferior.

It is relevance that we seek, after all, and people use religion to explore the meaning of life, rather, they look for something outside of themselves to satisfy the hole left by the internalized feelings of lack taught to us by society and religion.

Humans practice religion so that they won’t feel so small, so neglected and so worthless in the greater scheme of things. God is sought as an answer to all things feared in man; death, hunger, pain, chaos and confusion. Man seeks to make himself into something worthy of life, food and serenity in death by denying his right to have and obtain that which he wants and needs in life.

God represents the superiority that we seek; heaven is a place where our needs will be met and we will live in abundance.

You see, by nurture, we are taught to reach for that which we cannot obtain, we are all striving to be better than what we are born as. By nature, humans have needs and at some point the needs of the self become more penitent then the needs of others.

There is no downside for the self when the self chooses to be self servant; the only loss to be had is religion’s when humans discover their needs are better met if they assess them and then demand they be addressed by those in power rather than suffering until death so as to not cause discomfort to the ruling class.

Remember…God said you were born f*cked up…so where do you go from there? Even if you are not born Christian and were not taught these things you will still be affected by everyone and their internalized perception as you interact with them throughout life.

Any confidence, or ego or self importance that you as an individual will quickly be checked, and admonished as they attempt to indoctrinate you into the land of ‘equality’ the only thing wrong is that their version of equality means less than, like the rest of them.

“You can never be special, only God is special, but maybe God will think you’re special if you try real hard. You’ll just have to wait and see…” to that I say, nah, thanks, I’m good.

This existence based on inferiority causes humans to attempt to console themselves with things outside of themselves. I do not believe that religion improves the human existence, instead, I believe religion is only appealing in that it reinforces the feelings of worthlessness by danging acceptance just out of reach of the person who is seeking it.

Religion plays the part of a masochistic lover that takes great pride in watching and taking part in the suffering of the one person that claims to love them. And in harmony, the choice and willingness to submit to the idol’s ever lasting list of requirements and subsequent punishment in hopes of obtaining favor is the sole identity, purpose and joy of the sniveling, weak and broken sadist.

Without the pursuit to gain the favor of the one on the pedestal, the worshipper has no reason to live. If the sadist’s needs are met by the out of reach deity then the entire game fails, the sadist no longer has an identity and will then need to do the complicated work of self reflection and self regulating, something I think religious people are unwilling to do.

Indeed, my stance on the usefulness and benefit of debating the existence of a god isn’t even a conversation that I have with my circle of friends. I don’t believe in a magical man in the sky that is looking over my shoulder.

Nor do I believe in a magical man that is going to love me no matter how bad I am. I don’t need a substitute Daddy figure to love me and I don’t think my action mean much further than my realizing some immediate or short term benefit. My actions mean something to the people around me. I have to take them and myself into consideration; this is a burden that religion doesn’t address since you can always say, “oops, my bad”, and all is well.

I would rather not deal with a deity that allows such flippant treatment of humanity but maybe he is looking over your shoulder.

Or maybe you just need to think there is someone to look over your shoulder because you are immature, weak and too fragile to face life along, you’re something like a child. Let’s not pretend like religion isn’t full of references to followers as ‘sheep’, ‘children’ and any other low on the totem pole life form.

Me…I like a life where I’m an adult and I get to make choices and suffer the consequences based on my own actions. Being responsible for myself and riding the wave of the rise and fall of my days and learning to become my own sources of strength has given me superhuman ability.

There is no spoon…

At some point or another most of my friends have turned away from religion in pursuits of philosophical enlightenment that focuses on the well being of humanity and not a special group of people that I have to work my ass off to be a part of.

Just the contrary, we often have spirited conversations surrounding the absurdity of holding ancient laws up to the same standards as logical thought. I’m nice in my assessment, you should hear some of the comments, they’re hilarious but I’ll spare you the details.

My point is, there are plenty of people that don’t take religion seriously, and now that we are moving to what I think is a place of less tolerance for lazy, and mindless nose leading, it could be about time to question what exactly it is that you are afraid of?

You know you don’t REALLY believe in God and you know you have no interest in REALLY following scripture and you don’t REALLY think everything will work out in heaven, because if you did then you’d be well behaved and just wait on the reward, like you were told to.

You see, this article isn’t about upholding your religious belief, because frankly, I could give a damn about your religious beliefs. Their yours so keep them over there far away from me if you don’t want me to grind my pointy stiletto into your ratchet ass beliefs.

Me and my friends……the people who fornicate, have abortions, make judgments and decisions daily and somehow still manage to look themselves in the mirror every day, yeah, we’re laughing at you but you ENJOY being humiliated, right?

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DrMarctagon 6 pts

I had it to read it a 2nd time because I have to admit I did feel offended the first time around. I respect your opinion and though I feel it could have been done more tactfully, I understand that it wasn't your intention to be subtle, so that's cool too.

 

I myself am a believer of God and I do have faith in Him. I'm not writing to debate your words because I personally don't like religious debates. I find them futile because when the conversation is done, both of us still feel the same way, nor am I in a position to debate because I don't have physical proof to show anyone, nor they me. All I have is my own life.

 

It's okay to feel how you feel as long as you don't insult those who do simply for believing, but upon 2nd read, it seems like your blog is more focused on those who try to "convert" you or tell you you're wrong for not believing and in that, I can understand. 

Law Wanxi 5784 pts

Noon PST has come and gone and this post has failed to reach 200 comments.  Therefore, I shall be eating with Western European knife, fork and spoon.  "I think the phrase rhymes with *clucking bell*." [name the series and episode for a gold star].

 

It shall be Indian cuisine, as I rather fancy a spot of Tandoori Chicken this evening, to set the mood for a Karnatic Dance recital I will attend.  It would have been Thai, but my word [see below] is my bond.

Toni_M 18765 pts

 Law Wanxi  Oooooh, you said noon? :O Because it's well over 200 comments now. 

 

That's harsh.

NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 Toni_M  Law Wanxi

 The caption above right now, at 3:49 P.M. Arizona time (2:49 PST), says 164 comments.  Yeah, Laws' comment might be a bit harsh, but I got to give it to him, he's funny!

tracyreneejones 3532 pts

 Law Wanxi Am I invited...and can someone explain the joke. Humorous subtleties are not my strong suit, please don't point to me and make the other kids laugh, I'll cry and run away. 

Veron 1394 pts

I think the points that this article was trying to make was a lost in the judgmental tone. The ideas of self-accountability and reassessing societal hierarchy are good ones that deserve thought, but there are ways to promote a differing viewpoint without bashing the people who hold the opposing perspective.  The message immediately gets lost because people are going to become defensive and close their ears.  Even those who might agree with some of the things you might have to say will be put off by the tone of the argument.

tracyreneejones 3532 pts

 Veron I disagree that the message was lost, indeed, everyone understood my points though they disagreed with my methods, which were intentional and done as satire. Dare I say the audience here is a bit more sensitive then my normal political readers, it happens. 

 

 

tracyreneejones 3532 pts

I want a list of what is relevant to BWE, please....is there something posted on here..? 

 

Black Women's Empowerment does not include criticism of......

 

Black Women's Empowerment does not condone the discussions of the following.....

 

Black Women's Empowerment would only like to politely discuss the following official BWE topics....

Black Women's Empowerment will not be found in the following locations: challenging any outmoded institution besides....marriage....

Black Women's Empowerment will not challenge leadership dependency.

 

Black Women's Empowerment shall not encourage women to seek internal motivation rather than external symbolism. 

 

Black Women's Empowerment is not interested in critical thinking and certainty. 

 

Black Women's Empowerment will consider the minority point of view under the following circumstances...

 

Help me out...Y'all know I'm new here. 

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tracyreneejones 3532 pts

 Matrix12 Lack of tact, or the use of the lack of tact is all a part of discussion. I'm enjoying the exchange if no one else is. 

 

All discussion is not for the purpose of counter conviction, stating an alternative point of view is what I did, my methods are my own and they served their purpose and satisfied my intention. Now whether they are deemed as constructive or relevant or not is of no consequence since this post did sprout  debate. 

 

Offense happens during conflict, indeed. 

IAOSingleMoms 875 pts

 Matrix12  Thanks Matrix. You said everything I wanted to and more. If this is the route BBW is taking, then it is seriously going off track and will honestly lose a lot of its original audience...just being real. this article has absolutely NOTHING to do with Black Women Empowerment or Black Women Issues, period!

 
NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 ShunJack  Matrix12

 Actually, it does, from the jumping-up-and-down dancing-in-the-aisles holy roller churches to the Nation of Islam separatist beliefs, religion plays an important and often downplayed role in the lives and attitudes of BW.  And because it's so downplayed, it needs to be discussed in a rational, civilized manner.

IAOSingleMoms 875 pts

 NATruthstudent  Matrix12

 Sorry, I totally disagree. This article, not religion, THIS article has absolutely NOTHING to do with BWE or BW interests. it serves no purpose to bash others' sacred and core beliefs and I don't care what you are anyone else says, if you are a Christian, Athiest, Buddhist, or any other belief, that is your belief and no amount of supposed BWE principles are going to easily shake them. As you can see, I've only responded to the content of this article. however, I am not about to discuss my personal belief system with anyone on this board. because that's what they are, mines.

NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 ShunJack  Matrix12

 This article, perhaps, I'll agree with you on, because it does have some characteristics of bashing, which I tend to ignor, preferring to deal with the meat of the issue instead..  But religion in general IS a legitimate topic of discussion, especially as it relates to BW in this forum.

IAOSingleMoms 875 pts

 NATruthstudentWell, i will definitely leave it to you guys then...because as I said, not gonna discuss my religion on this forum...to me, it is not my place to brow beat my beliefs on no one or to have someone analyze mines. I've frequented many BWE blogs, and while I do get discussing organized religion and criticisms of it (because I know there are some crooks out there that aren't real Christians), I do believe that religious beliefs are sacred and we should treat them that way. Simply put, my relationship with God is personal and no body else's business.

claireshegoes 41 pts

 ShunJack I don't know about your original audience. But as a newbie, I'll speak up.

 

Ages (years?) ago I stumbled upon BBW. I was intrigued and happy. 

 

But I lost track of the site. I couldn’t recall how I had gotten here. Back then it hadn’t occurred to me to bookmark it.

 

At the time I was truly disappointed. I felt as though I understood and appreciated this site’s mission. I found it refreshing.

 

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I was thrilled to have found BBW again. I lurked to my heart’s content: I didn’t read every single article. But I spent far more than a sensible amount of time perusing several pages.

 

I remembered to bookmark BBW that night. Since then, I’ve been eating it up. You ladies like Gerard Butler and Hugh Jackman? Awesome. Health tips and profiles of interesting women and men? Cool! And Matthew Hussey…?

 

Have mercy.

 

But this article…?

 

*insert sound of happy record screeching to an awkward halt*

 

I made a WTH face when I saw the title. Things didn’t change much when I read the accompanying text.

 

Honestly, if this piece was all I knew of BBW, I’d be really turned off.

 

As for my objections--it’s not the fact that the author doesn’t care for religion. I don’t mind if people are atheists at all. In fact, a little while ago I was looking at The Friendly Atheist. I kept wanting to apologize.

 

(Believe me when I say that I have plenty of concerns about contemporary religious practices. In terms of discussing something that relates to this site, I believe other people have mentioned ideas related to religion and how (black) women or single people are treated. There’s a lot of nonsense going around that needs to be exposed.)

 

But in terms of this article’s content, I felt that it was incredibly disrespectful. I found the tone and language really, REALLY insulting. I’m not going to lie and say that I’m in church every Sunday. But my personal spiritual practice involves prayer and belief in God.

 

It’s apparent to me that the author has had unpleasant encounters with people who claim to profess a faith. And she needed room to vent. So be it.

 

Yet in spite of what she may have experienced, there are plenty of folks out there who have faith in a deity and are also intelligent and SENSIBLE--and believe in treating their fellow human beings with dignity and respect.

 

In my opinion, people—not just the author of this article, but all people—need to get beyond the idea that if someone says that they’re religious, that automatically means that they are inherently ignorant and judgmental.  

 

I know that people like that are out there. However, “I’m not a stereotype. I’m a human being.”

 

Recently that phrase popped into my head. I don’t know its original source, but I think it fits.

Renee Mimms 98 pts

 tracyreneejones  Check this article from Evia about the pillars of  BWE . You'll have to scroll down a bit but it's in there: <a href="http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/2012/01/uncommonly-common-sense-carriers-and-supporters-of-toxic-ideas-are-like-carriers-of-deadly-viruses.html">Uncommonly Common Sense Carriers</a>

 

HTH

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sparel 903 pts

 Matrix12 Agreed!!! but only if blackwomanalive accept that her beloved Jesus is a monkey!!! 

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel  Matrix12 

 

Keep exposing yourself, sparel. I personally never had any doubt to the little minded bigotry of Atheists but if anybody else was in doubt, you are providing excellent proof. I am honestly quite amused.

 

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive  Matrix12 little minded? you the one that believes in Santa Claus not I. so amused you shall. but I think i'm a little bit more amused then you lol 

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel  Matrix12 

 

Yes I do believe in Santa Clause! How on earth could ever say that Santa is not real? Are you crazy? So, just because you have never seen Santa Clause that means he doesn't exist? I mean, what about all the evidence that exists that proves his existence and what a great guy he is?  Are you SERIOUS? I mean a lot of people believe in him so that has to mean something right? Are you seriously telling me that you wouldn't believe in him unless you saw him? Like SERIOUSLY?

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive  Matrix12 wow you are nuts!! 

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel  Matrix12 

 

How am I nuts? Santa is as real as you and me! Why is it sooo hard to believe? I mean seriously, what would it take to make somebody believe that Santa Clause is real? You mean to tell me that you ACTUALLY would have to see him first? For real?

NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 blackwomanalive  sparel  Matrix12

 Santa Claus is aa fairy tale.  The Easter Bunny told me so.

IAOSingleMoms 875 pts

 blackwomanalive  sparel  Matrix12

 Just so I can be clear, are you joking, being saracastic, or do you really believe that Santa is real?

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 ShunJack  sparel  Matrix12

 

Nopers. He's real. I posted the links in a post that's probably a little lower down.

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sparel 903 pts

 Matrix12 I was speaking on evolution since ms. alive wanted to talk about the scientific method 

NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 sparel  Matrix12

 Is this what passes for intelligent discourse?

Moon Child 62 pts

I can't find this reply on the board so I am going to copy and paste! KEEKS Y SAID THIS.

 

@Moon Child  @tracyreneejones So when they do it through community service isnt religion teaching people to be humane and reach out? Whether parents believe in (a) GOD or not morals, values have emerged out of religion esp. christianity thus it does change where they came from e.g. render unto ceasar what is ceasar.... came from Jesus even though it used by those who believe and dont believe in God it still doesnt change the fact that Jesus uttered those principles first. Well religion might have not added much to society, but apatheism, agnosticism, athiestism and all the other ism hasnt dont anything or added nothing to society as a matter a fact more people have died in the last a hundred years under these views than in any religious wars

 

KEEKS Y:  I am not going to say that Christian does not set an example of community service! Please don't misunderstand me. I think that a lot of churches can set a good example. However, community service does not and should not start at a church. True community service is Mother Theresa or M. Ghandi.  But that is just argument for arguments sake right? Both means are valuable to PEOPLE. My point was that morals and values do not need to be created or started by religion or a religious doctrine. It's about humanity not religion seeking to save humanity from itself using religion. Does that make sense? It comes from the HEART not from a BOOK!

 

I disagree with you on a few points but I am doing so out of respect, NO arguments. :)

 

1. Yes, community service in a church and religious doctrine CAN TEACH community service.

2. Values and Morals are not TAUGHT by the bible, these attributes can be taught without religion, what the bible has done is created a do and don't list with consequences behind it. It's like the LAW. So, when you speed you get a ticket, you don't pay the ticket you go to jail! If you break the tenants of the bible you go to HELL.

3. Jesus was teaching something totally different with that quote. He meant, the world is going to have it's own rules and those rules are not always going to fit your soul. Therefore, you must OBEY Ceasar as you would God so that you will be balanced in your life. REMEMBER Jesus was not speaking about RELIGION, he was speaking about LIVING IN BALANCE in accordance to the LAW OF MAN and Spirit. Not the LAW OF GOD. God has no LAW, man created that word for easy human correlation. God had expectations of specific behaviors due to CULTURE ( Jewish) at that time in HISTORY. Where they moral laws, yes, according to Jewish CULTURE. Those cultural morals do not exist for you and I unless YOU AND I are ORTHODOX JEWS.

4. Those "isms" that you mentioned in fact have not contributed much in your eyes, but it depends on how each soul lives their reality. There are  plenty of atheists who believe in and practice community service and provide welfare to the needy. As far as the other "isms" like Buddhism or Hinduism, they have contributed very much to societies and have helped individuals and cultures beyond measure! Do some research. These doctrines do NOT have the LAWS that the bible does to oppress people but to FREE THEM and thus by freeing them, they are able to live a much  healthier life and have a far greater perspective of people, this earth, life and death. I am in no ways preaching here. I am not pushing a doctrine. We are having healthy debate and discussion, at least without the Atheist rants. Lastly, Christianity has KILLED MORE SOULS for the sake OF IT'S RELIGION than any other! And if given the opportunity, it can happen again. If the masses do not FOLLOW man's law, which is wrapped up in RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE TO SUPPORT MAN'S VIEWS, many will and can die! All for a book that  no one FULLY understands. I find that frightening.

Patricia Kayden 1673 pts

Shrug to this whole post. Can we keep our religious or anti-religious beliefs to ourselves? Can't we all just get along?!

tracyreneejones 3532 pts

 Patricia Kayden Acknowledging our various points of view is how we may better be able to get along. I'm trying to do my part. What you call getting along might be what others call avoidance. There is always room for more words...

blackwomanalive 373 pts

Ok. For those of you who don't know, the League of Millitant Atheists or League of Millitant Godless was a violent, antireligious organization that existed in the Soviet Union to promote Atheism. These were some scary folks. It was good day for all humanity wen they disbanded. Well, now some have decided to pick up the flag and are using their name and frankly, this speaks to the poor character of some Atheists. Read and shudder. (But most importantly, BE PREPARED!)

 

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/newleagueofthemilitantgodless?xg_source=activity

 

What I loathe about Atheists is that they have made it their life's mission to call out religion but you NEVER see them calling out extremism in their own ranks because at the end of the day ATHEISM IS A PROSELYTISING RELIGION. For those saying that religion has no importance in society, please tell me what good are these people going to do?Just go to Youtube and listen to their vids (or read the OP again).

 

Religion does not equal theism. Remember that.

 

Frankly, I am sick of the promotion of all white supremicist ideas be that Eurocentric Christianity or Atheism and all missionaries will get a tongue lashing from me.

 

 

 

 

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive Are you serious? so rejecting any form of any gods is a religion? come on! don't try and put atheism as if we go to church every sunday to give our offerings up "to you know who" because we know how much god needs money right? all powerful but needs money. 

 

and for the record atheist been in africa waaay before america so I don't know why you think being a atheist is being white...no being an atheist means you simply don't believe in ANY gods and all of it's a bunch a bullshit because it can be proven...I mean it's really simple A-theist

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel No. What I am referring to is the ideology that Atheists ascribe to, NOT non-theism. I referring to the nihilism, Humanism, and anti-religionism that goes along with modern day Atheism that is indeed birthed from white/European peoples experiences and handling and handling of religion. I did not say that being Atheist means being white. I said that it is a white supremicist/ Eurocentric ideology that values the world view of white people over the world view of others. It is in DIRECT RESPONSE to white peoples history and heritage. If you are referring to the NON-THEISM of certain indigenous people like in Africa or South America, again, that is different than Atheism, which, again, has attached to it many other ideologies that non-theists in other parts of the world DO NOT SHARE.

 

As far what can't be proven, you also can not prove that god/gods/spirits/ or a creator does not exist. As far as I am concerned both theism and atheism require belief in something we have no way of proving. IMHO the only ideology that is truly based on reason, facts and science is Agnosticism. The idea of god exisitng or not being irrelevant and that people should just live their lives for themselves is what actually makes the most logical sense.

 

And I am not surprised that you have failed to call out extremism and bigotry

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive well couldn't that be the same as any other religion? if you're going to point the finger and say that "Atheism that is indeed birthed from white/European peoples experiences and handling and handling of religion." couldn't that be said Same for Christianity, etc? 

 

and as far as this white stuff look at the blog we are on...I'm not against white people so I'm not going to be saying "oh the white people" lol those comments never gets people anywhere.  

 

 

" Africa or South America, again, that is different than Atheism, which, again, has attached to it many other ideologies that non-theists in other parts of the world DO NOT SHARE."

 

so not believing in any god(s) is different? really? interesting....

 

"As far what can't be proven, you also can not prove that god/gods/spirits/ or a creator does not exist."

 

yeah you're absolutely right I can't prove there isn't completely a god but guess what? the difference between you and I is I don't believe anything unless I have proof...no proof no god...simple and aren't we all atheist in some sort? so you are telling me you believe in every single one of the gods and over HUNDREDS of religions? come on everyone seems to have their picks I just don't believe in any of them.

 

"And I am not surprised that you have failed to call out extremism and bigotry"

 

and I'm also not surprised that you haven't either so we're even. 

 

 

 

 

 

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel 

 

There is a difference between Christian faith and the Eurocentric Christian Institutions that have historically guided Europe and it's people. African Christianity has been around just as long and is just as valid.

 

You are also oversimplyfying my comments in regards to white supremacy by assuming that it has anything to do with a disdain for white people. Obviously sense I am here, I have no such disdain. When I say "White Supremacy or Eurocentric" I am referring to a world view NOT all white people, as clearly, many non-whites also hold white supremacist views or should I should I say accept their worldview as their own.

 

"so not believing in any god(s) is different? really? interesting...."

 

Yes it is different. European Atheism has other philosophies attached to it. Nihilism, the idea of Science being the basis of life, Humanism, Secularism and Anti-Religionism. Indigenous societies that don't have theism (like say, folks who worship ancestors but don't have a concept of "god") or even those without any such ideologies do NOT ascribe to those associated philosophies. How can they as they are all birthed from European people experiences. They simply don't have a pantheon and basically live their lives as they see fit based on what they know. They don't have an active hatred or disdain for religion. They just don't believe in one.

 

"yeah you're absolutely right I can't prove there isn't completely ....... I just don't believe in any of them"

 

You are simply assuming that you understand my position on god/gods/faith and religion. You have absolutley no idea what I accept as proof and why and you are not my judge or god and I owe you no explaination. You also haven't proven there is no god so how can you actually say that denying it's existence isn't belief? That is inconsistant.

 

"and I'm also not surprised that you haven't either so we're even."

 

Oh I haven't?

"It is amazing how church has taught people to be uncomfortable wit their own divinity. I think church is the worse thing to happen to Christ's message."

 

http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/kathy-henry-homophobia-in-the-black-community/

 

"I loathe the Black Church as well as countless other religious institutions but I equally loathe the hypocrisy of Atheists. I have found them to be just as judgemental and just as preachy and just as close-minded as any Bible thumper and they can both just kiss my natural black. I say to hell with all to ALL bigoted, close minded religious freaks, be they theists or not. :-)"

 

No honey, you are in that boat all by yourself! But hey, at least you are honest about the fact that you won't do it. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moon Child 62 pts

 blackwomanalive  sparel 

Just a gentle correction.

 

The Eurocentric form of Christianity IS Afro-centric Christianity. It's where it all stems from. Judaism is considered it's simplest and most accurate form of religion.

 

Wow! I was too sleepy to peep the Atheist argument! Ladies don't get caught up into that. I believe their IS something greater than ourselves in the universe, I just don't believe it came though the manner of religion. I don't know what to call "it" but I know it's there. I also believe that along with "something bigger than ourselves" that science plays a role in our creation as a planet and as organisms, whether we are duplicated throughout the universe is the new theory. I do not believe this is the only galaxy and nah I am not talking about "Aliens" per se. But scientists believe that WE, meaning human beings, as organisms came from another galactic system as residual energy, so we may have existed before! I can't remember the "scripture" or passage in the bible but someone showed me once where it was mentioned.

 

Peace and love. I embrace all as long as love is genuine.

 

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive "You are also oversimplyfying my comments in regards to white supremacy by assuming that it has anything to do with a disdain for white people."

 

You know to be honest with you...I really don't care. Arguing with a person (excuse me debating) who thinks god *could* exist is laughable.  and pointless in my opinion.

 

I'm over analyzing your position as far as white supremacy is concern but yet you over analyzing atheism.  WE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GODS! point blanks.  and to give credit where it is due at least a person that goes by the scientific method needs PROOF!.    

 

"You are simply assuming that you understand my position on god/gods/faith and religion."

 

Hey lady I could care less on your position on god(s) the only reason I commented to you in the first place was because you said something on the line of atheist don't talk about the bad things they do.  I corrected you and is still waiting on an answer as to who did any corruption for the sake of atheism show me one person. 

 

you damn right i'm judgmental and so are you and everyone else that's common grounds just like morality.  We judge things either we like something or we don't.  I like how you say just like countless others say that you can't prove he don't.  well ain't that something? I can't also prove that you have a invisible leprechaun on your head dancing the river dance can I? 

 

I rather be in a real boat by myself than be in a invisible ship with you and noahs art 

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel You are just pathetic. I have constantly repeated myself and I am not doing it again. If you are too dumb to know how to read a book or at least use Google then please leave me alone.

 

How is anything that you have said any better behavior than what you Atheists harp on theists about? Just.effing.sad.

 

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive EXACTLY!! repeat myself my ass you can't give me one name it just prove my point? and google? are you serious? know facts before you start talking about something you know nothing about.  One person that help people indoctrinated in the name of Atheism.  You could...you lose!!!  

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel 

 

*shakes head*

Ok sparel, on a nice, even note. I have constantly repeated who I am referring to you in all the comments I left. I really don't think it's hard. So just in case there is any kind of legitimate confusion, please just refer to the comments that I already left. :-)

sparel 903 pts

 blackwomanalive *shakes head* lol like I said, before you start spewing nonsense about atheism at least back it up.  but since you can't.  I'll just leave it alone

 

 

 

Christelyn 8728 pts moderator

 sparel  blackwomanalive Am I gonna have to send you all to the Time Out Corner? *taps foot impatiently*

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 sparel 

 

:-)

 

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-face/

 

http://images.travelpod.com/users/travellingross/2.1309104005.st-nicholas-altar-in-crypt--his-remains-are-in.jpg

 

"Oh ya better not shout. You better not cry. You better not pout I'm tellin' you why..!"

 

sparel, Atheism is as much about belief as theism. We both accept as true something that we have no definitive proof of.You thought I was being silly on insisting that Santa (not the characture but the actual man) was real but that was only because your knowledge was limited. What made you sure was faith.

 

1000 years ago our knowledge was more limited and we didn't know that the world was as vast as it is. In 1000 more who knows where we will be and how vast we will find out our universe is. If we ever find the creator, perhaps he/she/it won't be some white bearded guy in a long robe, but who knows, maybe we will find them to be just as worthy as study and reverence as all the various holy men and women of all the different faiths have told us he-she-it is. :-)

blackwomanalive 373 pts

 Christelyn   sparel 

 

No offense but I don't appreciate my faith being insulted and if it's going to be allowed then I think I should have the right to defend it.

Law Wanxi 5784 pts

 Christelyn   sparel  blackwomanalive 

"Don't make me stop this car!"

NATruthstudent 1491 pts

 Moon Child  

 "The Eurocentric form of Christianity IS Afro-centric Christianity. It's where it all stems from."

 

This reminds me of a time I was channel-surfing, years ago, and caught the last few minutes of a program about AA self-esteem.  The moderator, a light-skinned BW, said, "I want everyone in the audience and everyone watching at home to repeat after me: I am proud to be an American of African descent, even if I'm white."

 

My first reaction was a shocked "Huh???"  But after thinking about it for a hot minute, I realized that she was RIGHT.  what we call the Middle East, and especially the parts where Biblical history took place, is, in fact, in the north-east part of Africa, going as far south as Ethiopia and perhaps farther.  It's where many scholars believe that humanity itself originated and where civilization as we know it also developed. 

 

Of course, many others believe that civilization first developed in what we call the Far East, mainly what id now China and India.

zipporah 1714 pts

 NATruthstudent  Moon Child Yeah.. many of .the white people in Christianity are the 'johnny come latelys' the people of the early church were DARK SKINNED. It gets confusing when most of the icons show Jesus & co. as Italian or Anglo Jewish

Moon Child 62 pts

The way I see it is this post was created in this fashion to: 1. generate discussion; 2. To allow the creator to speak her truth concerning ORGANIZED RELIGION. I have read many responses and have experienced a lot of head nodding from different perspectives. However, without trying to be disrespectful, I do not see where religion is playing a significant role in our society at this time. I do see where it bring people together for community, however, in my opinion black folk can do with some serious revamping on how, what, where and when we come together for a cause. Why does it have to be within a church setting to get anything accomplished? I think this has gone way back to slavery. This is where our ancestors "came" together for unity, prayer and hope. Not that society has changed all that much, just the very fact that THIS religion is not OUR religion makes me run in the other direction. 

 

Sure, religion or church allows one to believe in something because LIFE IS HARD, well life was never promised to be easy, however, with that said, if spiritualists or any other non Christian thinking individual or sect can move through life with a positive attitude and outlook, helping others, volunteering, giving and loving, then why can't the black community? Is it really all about the CHURCH? Religion was created to oppress people. The very first homage that was paid to anything higher than ourselves was SPIRITUAL not religious. Religion is a construct to CONTROL you, not free you, not to uplift you. It keeps you spinning in the same direction all your life with very little personal power. Anything that tells you, your a not WORTHY? THAT you are a lowly worm is NOT POSITIVE.  From my experiences at church, and their have been many from many denominations, I have found the church to be a breeding ground for social lifestyles.  I have witnessed and been a victim too biblical verse antidotes that have created more fear and chaos. Not just on a church level but on personal levels as well. I have seen more back biting, chaos, pain, and "SIN" IN church than in the world and the hypocrisy continues, not only with black churches but in white ones as well.

 

Science to me is apart of creation, you can't live with it or without it. Our universe is unique ( or as unique as we know)  I feel due to this very real construct that we take the emotional aspect out of the topic of religion and look at it from a very dynamic and diverse perspective. WE need to be honest about what religion is and why it does play such a huge role within our culture but throughout the entire world! What does religion really provide people? Again, I say provides a sense of comfort to those who find life to harsh, it provides a way for people to learn how to forgive, how to love their neighbor. But it also provides a tool for the elite to control your behavior, your thoughts, how you feel about yourself etc. It creates wars, famines, genocide etc.  The bible was used to justify slavery! Where was the LOVE then?

 

The bible has too many conflicting views (of course it does, another CULTURE set in another TIME FRAME) and it demeans women and children ( just look at all the societies of the world and name one that does not oppress women and children and are not heavily steeped in religious doctrine) and it does not provide the "true comfort" that many souls are seeking. it just perpetuates the chaos.

 

I have to agree with the poster (sorry don't recall your name.. it's way to early for me to be writing) that stated that Jesus was not preaching RELIGION. He actually was taught (and there is proof) by Tibetan MONKS and if you follow his words carefully he speaks their language and outlook. Now the Tibetan Monks are BUDDHISTS.  Food for thought! No, Jesus' name was NOT JESUS that was given to him by the Romans. Christianity was NOT a religion that was created during his life, it was created HUNDREDS of years after his death!! It as used and changed (books taken out, words changed) by a European king for the purpose of CONTROLLING THE MASSES! By instilling FEAR in order to make them BEHAVE AND ADHERE TO THE SOVEREIGNTY OF their KING. (KING.. CHRIST WAS AND IS REFERRED TO AS A KING IN THE BIBLE). This is factual. Religion or the concept of it has not changed. Will it ever be done away with? No, it won't. Not as long as the masses allow themselves to be put asleep.

 

I am not suggesting that black people abandon religion. That is something our culture won't and can't do. Our people NEED RELIGION like breathing. Which to me is both sad and endearing. it saddens me because we seem to be stuck going in circles, not finding our way out of the maze to truly make significant changes to our culture and our world views. We are archaic in our thinking and lost when it comes to CHANGE and embracing that change, in many forms. We use religion to ostracize our own people for various reasons creating even more CHAOS. it is endearing to me because we do this as a whole, not as individuals, we are all different, but for the majority we are like children, following a religious doctrine because someone TOLD US TOO. Not being brave enough to dig deeper than what pastor preaches on Sunday sermons or do research outside of bible study to truly understand what, why, how and, who the bible was written for.

 

I came from a southern bible thumpin grandmother, may her soul find rest, I was indoctrinated in religion as a very young child and was deeply educated in doctrine by the age of 20. 17 years later I have left that behind after being "awakened" to the doctrine of live and the universe and people. I find more peace and comfort in that doctrine than the bible which has me chaotic, running in circles and asking more questions, than finding answers.