Question of the Week: “My African Wife Is Mistreated By Black Americans. Why?”

Don't close the comments, we can all learn to be more constructive and open minded if those who recognize BS call it out. There is a way one has critical discussion, I don't believe the audience here is incapable of doing so, if they don't know, fugum, they'll learn. If they choose not too, then we give them a lesson in public discourse. I do think its counter productive when threads are great but comments can sometimes throw apples in with the oranges because its easier and they want to have something to say. I'm not flapping my gums, I'm here to build muscle, Ma!!PS....the AA people that insulted your wife are reacting to her 'outsider-ness' which is some low class slave ship type something because some BC's think non AA think 'they're better'. Group think...quite simple.  

To keep it short and sweet, I would say in general there are cultural differences and misunderstandings. Maybe people think that because of shared physical appearance they will share other values, but Africa is full of diverse cultures and peoples and Americans have different cultures, so there's a clash.

And I did see someone point out that it goes both ways. I've heard many people complain about the negative attitudes they've received from various Africans (in my city a lot of our African pop. is from Somalia, Ethiopia, and Eritrea). My dad is a higher ranked police officer, he is college educated, and he has told me of times that Africans have tried to talk down to him while he was in uniform. He said because they are just like any other non-US person they see the negative images of black Americans, so when they come here that's what they expect.

It is a pity that this thread degenerated the way it has. I interpreted this post as a husband upset that his wife is being treated negatively and is trying to find a way to fix the problem and/or understand why his wife is being the treated the way she is. Unfortunately this is an instance where there is no real answer other we humans just can't get along sometimes. 

"During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week Malcolm X was killed which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is. I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that. Here's a song about National Brotherhood Week.

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks, And the black folks hate the white folks. To hate all but the right folks Is an old established rule.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek. It's fun to eulogize The people you despise, As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks, And the rich folks hate the poor folks. All of my folks hate all of your folks, It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic. Step up and shake the hand Of someone you can't stand. You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, And the Catholics hate the Protestants, And the Hindus hate the Muslims, And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week. Be nice to people who Are inferior to you.

It's only for a week, so have no fear. Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY

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Tom Leher hit it right on the head of the nail ... back in the 60's.

"What I found interesting about black women were their strength, ability to discuss issues they may have with me as well as continue to love me.  White girls have a harder time communicating without holding it against you. "

Interesting point... this is one of the reasons I prefer black women.  This is very true about WW.

All I have to say is that I am apart of the African Student Association at my university. I am a black American and there are other black Americans in the group as well. For the most part, all the good people and people with an open mind and heart get along with each other despite where we are from. At the end f the day, I think that is what it comes down to, attitude.

Something was telling me to stay away from this post. THESE COMMENTS ARE FREAKING LONG AS HELL MAN!! 

When I was in Europe it was my experience that as soon as people found out I was American a small minority would take the opportunity to tell me how horrible America is and what a bunch of dumb hicks we are.  Thinking that your group is superior to others is human nature.  Some people will be rude about it, others will be more tactful.  I actually look forward to these arguments when I go back.  I keep it in perspective.  At least we aren't going to war over these differences any more.  

It's unfortunate that people who write questions to me often regret asking. It's two weeks in a row that the folks who sought support were scared away. Many of you aren't privy to the back end of these conversations--I am. I don't do QOTW because I want to wring these people out to dry. They truly seek understanding and support. I'm not pointing fingers at any particular person, because I think we can all do better in communicating constructively, empathetically, and tactfully. Otherwise, I may have to stop doing this segment or simply close the comments.

I have come to understand that  some whites deny opportunities to AAs by giving them to foreign born blacks. Given that it is AAs who fought for these opportunities by fighting for desegregation, Affirmative Action etc etc, I can see how this would be a problem. I'm African by the way.

Wow.  I was hoping to read much more enlightening comments, as I always look forward to the discussions here.  This was disappointing.  

 Toni_M ChristineB

As for your comment that "just because people look alike doesnt mean they are allies or the same."

Do you think that was the point to my question?  If so, just chalk me up to being one of "those people that has plenty of black friends."

I can already see that my time on this website, though it is brief, may have been wasted.  To think I found a place where I could learn more about someone I love may have been an error on my part.

I apologize to all those I may have offended.

 nicew0

Again, I am the one that posted the question to Mrs. Karazin.  Now I have a few things to say with regard to some of the comments below.  I am going to leave m wife out of it because she never had anything to do with my question other than get yelled at by a person in COSTCO in my presence.  I asked the question because I am very observant and have seen many many instances of the behavior I asked about, not just towards her but also to others.  So lets put to bed the notion that I intentionally stirred something up just to get people to hate on one another.

A little about me.  I am a MAJOR in the Army and serve in a branch of the Army that causes me to interact with local nationals where I am deployed.  I am currently serving overseas at this moment working with 10 different Arab nations.  I have worked overseas with Iraqis, Bosnians, Germans, Panamanians, Albanians, Koreans, and more.  My job is to learn about culture, people, what makes them tick so I can conduct my mission successfully for this country and the Soldiers that I serve. I am nearly complete with my PhD and believe that part of learning and being tolerant, something I see little of in the discussions below, is something I strive to be.  I am a white man from West Virginia who grew up in small coal mining towns that did not not include anyone from different races or cultures.  The first AAs, Latinos, Asians, etc I ever met were in college.  Additionally, because my wife is black, my family has cut me off for the very same reasons they raised me not to emulate as a kid.  My family is racist and I never knew it until I got married. 

I attend a predominantly African pentecostal church in the DC area that is most accepting of other races and the congregation continues to grow because we dont care who you are.  For me, I am one of only about 10 white people in church and have never felt like an outsider.  When I was dating others, I did feel uncomfortable until I met my wife's people in which it was never a big deal that I am white.  The American side of my family, the side that talks about everyone being free, a melting pot, etc is the one that not only turned on their son but also on someone that came to the US for college and stayed. 

For those of you that say my wife came here to improve her social status, I can tell you that she was more well off in Africa than she is here living on my military salary with me.  She could have gone home and done so much better than me. Believe me when I say she is one of the "haves" in Africa.  but she loves America, what it stands for, and currently works to help Latino immigrants learn English to improve their social status and stop allowing the US government to hold them down by enabling them not to learn our language.  So some of you can get off your high horse acting like she came to a place that welcomed her. Maybe that is part of the problem, you allow yourself to be held down by a system designed to raise you up.  The articles on this site talk about how black women need to be strong, work hard, not take anything from anyone, stop allowing others to hold you down.  What is wrong with you people?

Please direct all your hate to me and we can talk about it.

So back to why I asked the question.  In my experience, and I am just me, I have seen, witnessed whatever the very question I posed to Mrs. Karazin.  I live in multicultural and cosmopolitan D.C. where every time you look somewhere, you see someone of a different culture, religion, race, whatever. Someone below said the Koreans do not like the Chinese and vice versa, etc. I get it, people do not like other people.  My question was simply to find out what, if there was one and as it appears there are many, are the issues AAs have with Africans. I dont like a lot of white people but I can still have an intelligent conversation.  If AAs dont have issues with Africans, then problem solved and we can move on. 

This site is meant to educate us all about culture, mixing races, being tolerant, and so on and look what my simple question has resulted in.  This was never my intention to play anyone against the other, Africans against Africans, AAs against Africans, whatever you conspiracy theorists like to dream up and complain about. 

If any of you have a problem with what I asked, please direct your comments to me, not one another.  I am a big boy and can take it and will be more polite to you than you have been to one another. If you want my personal email address, just send me a note and I would be happy to send it to you.

Maybe the actions in this thread is why we are so divided in this country and cannot find our way out.  I know for me though that I crossed the color barrier after growing up in a place that it was strictly forbidden and have learned to tolerate even those that sling comments to my question as someone that wanted people to hate on one another.

Whew what a hot mess. Thankfully, I take everyone on an individual basis and it has served me well. Also helped me avoid appearing like a stupid jacka$$ to strangers.

I don't see Nigerians and Ghanaians all chubby either. Africa is a continent right? 

And please pardon the typos (there are many). I was typing fast and not up to going back to re-read and replace things, such as "detract" with "retract" and "spend" with "spent." Oh well, please just rely on context. lol! :-)

Just going to make a simple mod note: Make sure we please follow the house rules and everyone be civil to each other. I know things get heated, but I'd like people to be sure we respect each other.

Any bigoted comments that do not contribute at all to the discussion (here or the other post) will be removed.

Ooops! My computer is acting up. But, I agree Toni, that use of race is useless. In the health field, it does help map health disparities and how racism (can't articulate the full extent of it here) plays a role in some health issues today.  Otherwise, it seems to be used to rank people based upon someone else's hierarchy.  Unfortunately, given our (humans) propensity for division, I can find people finding another way to divide. :-)  My brother's Indian friend from high school had a mother who not only wanted him to marry an Indian, but an Indian woman from a specific city in India. 

 ChristineB When I read the letter in this article my first thought was that it was a ploy to pit groups of people against one another. Sadly—even if unintentional—it's done just that. 

Final Part....

Finally, stereotyping is a sort of defense mechanism, a way of protecting us from people we think will “harm” us. Sure, sometimes they are warranted and do protect us. But, sometimes we miss or risk missing out (as in the case of my Ugandan friend) on really good people, who could be great allies and support systems. So, to the guy and his wife 1) Black doesn’t equal bad and White doesn’t equal good-try not to let your experiences affirm these myth/stereotypes; 2) don’t waste time and energy on INDIVIDUALS who don’t accept your wife, you, and/or your relationship; 3) focus on the people who are open and receptive to you, who smile back, speak kindly, etc.; 4) don’t blame an entire group for the behavior of individuals; and 5) don’t assume that, if you only seem to encounter negative Black Americans that positive ones don’t exist. :--)

Well, I'm going to add another important part. I remember, when I got to my history class in high school, being excited about the fact that information about Africa was going to be taught.   The result?  Just as with Black Americans, there is this message to the world that BLACK people (whether you want to accept it or not AFRICANS) contribute nothing to the world.  About the only ones they will acknowledge are the Ethiopians.  But the northern Africans, especially the beloved Egypt, where White people refuse to believe Negroes had the intelligence to build a structure (the pyramids) they haven't figured out, have been white-washed as Arabs.  The message is, not only do BLACKS not contribute to the world, all they do is TAKE? Sound familar?  Aid to Africa from the West and China, despite taking that and more in people and resources for centuries...literally building their economies?  Welfare recipients and affirmative action when it comes to Black Americans, despite the fact that this population worked free for decades building the wealth of some families and even insurance companies; that affirmative action only benefits those in a position to use it (a D average will not get you a seat in college); and more White Americans are on welfare (let me not talk about other "privilege" and "entitlement" structures in the US that benefit White Americans) than Black Americans. 

Who do you think initiated action to put pressure on the South African government to end apartheid?!!! Black American politicians. Yet, we are ignorant and lazy?  I'm not discounting what was done within that country. But, having internal and external pressure made a difference.  You all need to really assess these messages you have and where they come from?  And let some wisdom seep in. Is a group of people truly ALL one way?  It's so absurd, I don't know whether to laugh or spit nails.  Nigeria is constantly rated the most corrupt country in the world and a guy I dated was friends with the son of one of the Nigerian government official who stole money from the country and ran off to England.  Yet, I have enough sense to know the ENTIRE country and culture is not comprised of swindlers. 

Part II....

Thirdly, I assure you, as someone said, the individuals treating her so shoddily are likely miserable (not because they’re Black American-as that would be utter ignorance and stupidity for someone to believe) in their own lives. As such, NO one, not even another Black American female, is exempt from the venom of a negative person. Some Black Americans would have done as the wife and ignored the ignorance. And some Black American women, as well as African women, would have given as good as they had received. And trust me, there are some nasty, messy and miserable Asian, White, Latina, and African women, too, within the US and back in their native countries.

Fourthly, just as someone said, people who share the same skin color don’t automatically have kinship or relate to each other. But, that also applies even WITHIN cultures. And non-Black cultures are included in this too. Surely, I don’t need to recount the many, many wars and atrocities committed and being committed on the continents of Africa (anarchy in Somalia, fighting in Kenya after the election that displaced my mother-in-law (brother’s wife) from her home, Asia (Vietnam War, Rape of Nanking), Europe (WW II and SOOOO many wars), and South America? My African girlfriends and I laugh and say how it is amusing how, after some people step on American soil, all the sins and vices they know abounds in their cultures and countries, among their people, become virtually non-existent and only the people in their new country (in this case America)seem to possess those negative behaviors. Suddenly, the only lazy, violent, problematic people are in the US only. Lol!

When I lived in Germany, two of the four of the African women I befriended spoke of how they didn’t trust the other Africans. In their opinion, there was a lot of mistrust, deceit, manipulation, violence, and unwillingness of their own countrymen/women to provide aid. I dated a Nigerian that even spoke badly of Nigeria and Nigerians. I don’t agree with his stereotype as I have met some great friends who are Nigerian. I’ve even been told by Ethiopian friends, that some Ethiopians don’t want to be identified as African, only as Ethiopian, in an attempt to dissociate themselves from other African groups, much to the chagrin of SOME (not all or most) individuals from those West African groups. I’m not saying this is widespread, just giving an example of how ignorance abounds and all groups find ways to discriminate from others. But, an entire group shouldn’t be blamed. But, my point is that, even within cultures “brotherhood” and “sisterhood” are not guaranteed. I don’t assume I will be exempt from harm if I enter a violent neighborhood, just because the population is predominantly Black American.

Fifthly, the animosity isn’t entirely one-sided (as in some Black Americans against African only). If some Black Americans can be so influenced to believe the negative stereotypes about ourselves (e.g., colorism, hair quality, ranking of beauty, sexual minority myth), Africans, and blackness as a whole, is it too farfetched to believe that some Africans, sometimes before they even step foot on American soil, are already filled with stereotypes and bias against Black Americans? In fact, I’ve had African friends reveal to me directly (not in a malicious way) that White Americans, specifically, working abroad in Africa, at customs abroad or the US, and in the US, “warn” them against associating them with Black Americans. And they have countrymen and women who “warn” them, also. Of course, as in the case of my friend Laura’s brother, Amadou Diallo, who was shot and killed by NYPD police officers years ago, Black Americans weren’t his enemy that time. There are plenty of Africans who look down upon Black Americans, for various reasons. Overall, I think that the Black Americans who view Africans as inferior and the Africans that view Black Americans as inferior, regardless of the reason(s), have already displayed and proven their own inferiority and ignorance.

Sixthly (new word), to address the comment about Black Americans not being liked anywhere, what BS. Yes, I said it and I do not detract it. In fact, from my experience and what Europeans have conveyed to me, Africans are not always generally respected. And don’t even get me started when it comes to China, including the death of the Nigerian in police custody. In Germany, my African friends expressed being treated with disdain, whereas I was treated as an American-basically with respect. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have had issues had I stayed longer. But, while I was there, I was okay. And many African Americans, such as Nina Simone and Josephine Baker, left the US to live abroad in Europe for the very fact that as Americans, regardless of their race, they were treated better there. And an Ethiopian friend told me of an Ethiopian friend who now has American citizenship and brags about how differently he is treated with an American passport when he is traveling throughout Europe. So, I have a very strong difference of opinion about the lack of respect for Black Americans in Europe.

Of course, this brings me to what I call the “Special Negro” Myth. This is akin to the house slave/field slave dichotomy, whereas one slave is told he/she are better and superior based upon X, Y, Z qualities, than the other slave, when they are both still considered inferior. When some Africans come to the US, they feed the manure some White Americans shovel down their throats about them (Africans) being better than Black Americans for basically characteristics that individuals within all races and cultures share. Few outside of the US, truly understand how the history of America influences relations among Whites and Blacks today. As someone who prefers to date interracially, I wish it were otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, I know there are things that can be done to achieve one’s goals, despite obstacles. But, there is no doubt that some characteristics facilitate and, conversely, hinder achieving goals, even if only temporary. My former hairdresser, a Nigerian with fierce skills, married a White American. He met her in Nigeria and told her that if she were Black American, he wouldn’t have married her. Ironically, some of the qualities he thinks are only applicable to Black Americans, she displays. And she’s no dummy; she loves her husband, but her head is not buried in the sand. She met his mother who basically introduced her (the Nigerian) to her (the mother’s) friend, with a need to emphasize that she was African. My friend stated that the way she said it was clearly in a way to compensate for her son marrying a Black woman, as if to say-she’s not Black American. And, when I was in Germany or have encountered some Europeans, they talked trash about Africans. I don’t trust that sort of thinking and contest it.