Question of the Week: “Why Are More West Indian and African Women Open to Interracial Marriage?”

 nahlaa Everyone: don't feed the trolls.

 medtrotter  Did not see that post.  I deleted it.  Thanks.

Most of them are shocked when I tell them I'm open to dating "Onyinbos" as they like to say. They tell me that I'm brave and that they couldn't do it because of their parents and they want ot preserve the culture. I know many Nigerians, and I haven't met one open to IR yet. So it's not always one case fits all. But of course, some of us are individuals. In Nigeria, I did see a few bw-wm couples. And I've learned through the internet about many Nigerian woman/wm couples. I just haven't met any in real life.

Bunny77 Amen to that.

Bunny77 Last night when I wrote my post I started it with a long preemptive paragraph explaining how I was talking in general terms. I deleted it because it was too long.

You're right. There are a lot of people with the same cultural background as myself who are exactly as you described. When a person comes from a broken or dysfunctional home it doesn't matter where he/she is from, they are more likely to lead a dysfunctional life themselves. Again, I'm speaking in general terms.

Most of us on this website pretty much think alike. My post was intended to give a frame a reference to why I think the way I think. I know there are plenty of African-American women who think just like me.

Thanks for responding Anne55. Your post didn't bother me at all, and I do understand that in writing, it's hard to get across all the nuances and point out that not every person is like ABC or XYZ. My point was more toward a general trend I see whenever the AA vs. other BW (or Americans vs. non-Americans) come up in general... eventually, it seems to disintegrate into Americans = bad, everyone else = good. I just didn't want it to get to that in this thread.And I'm no flag-waving "Americans can do no wrong" type either! I think there's a lot that all of us can learn from each other!Anne55

Anne55 Typos-a-plenty here, deal with it :)

AJ2011 I wasn't raised in a "black-centric" or "race-centric" household. Even though my parents were older and personally experienced Jim Crow in the South, race just wasn't something we focused on. While that may have made it difficult for me to relate to other black people (always told I acted white, talked white, etc), it benefited me when it came to relating to non-black people. I didn't have any of the notions of loyalty to the "black community" when it came to dating. I didn't feel uncomfortable around non-black people socially, so it made it very easy for me to attract and date non-black (white) men.

The Working Home Keeper Me neither. I didn't think there was much ado about mixed couples until I saw Spike Lee's X where he "give up" smoking and White Women LOL. I was raised in a black neighborhood with all the amenities and award winning education as the whiter more diverse neighborhoods that bordered ours. Our banks, grocers, and businesses were owned and operated by blacks, most of them living in the neighborhood, more people were married and owned homes. Even now the black elementary and HS are in the top 10 for the state and top 100 in the country so I wasn't familiar with "black" as a burden. My church, museum classes, girl scout troop, parents' friends and their children, and our God parents (we have total of 10 between me and sis because my parents are nuts) are diverse so I never had a bad feeling about people who were black or even American. There was a balance there and thousands of black children in my neighborhood grew up with this kind of exposure and it was a good for us. So I do get irritated when black neighborhoods are seen as bad or limiting and equally pissed when blacks make race the qualifier for friendships. Relating to people with my values, race be damned, helped me.

It sounds like we had very similar upbringings! Well, we are from what I consider "sister" cities! :) AJ2011 The Working Home Keeper

AJ2011 "Black as a burden" is an excellent way to describe the mindset of some American blacks. For me, being black is on the level of being right-handed or wearing a size 6 shoe. It's not something I'm ashamed of or feel burdened by. It's just what I am. But it doesn't define me!

Bunny77AJ2011 Reminds me of a bumper stick I saw yesterday - "A good childhood lasts a life time".

Bunny77 There is one black area like ours in the city and 2 more in the burbs. These areas are hard to integrate because most people don't move and if they do or pass on their kids take over. I'm not staying though, the houses are too small:) and there is another black area I want to live in across town. Its blighted but there is a lot of potential and my motives are "selfish". But if I were married and had children we'd be living here or the other neighborhood.

Bunny77 You know what though, even after saying all that I still entertain the idea of leaving the US anyway.

AJ2011

I am curious. In our earlier exchange, you seemed pessimistic on the chances of black women and white men getting married, but when you talk about places you could live in your city, you only mention black areas. If you are interested in marrying non-black men, are you limiting yourself in other ways. You are unlikely to meet non-black men if you limit yourself to areas where they don't live.

Brice Cameron Back that train up Cam. I'm pessimistic because I don't agree that black women are responsible for the assumptions white men make about them. My choice in where I live has more to do with what I know about infrastructural improvement and investment potential in these areas and they just happen to be black, most of the whites live in sprawl which I detest, sprawl that is. Buying a home is a huge investment so I will be looking at places with the best potential, not where da white men at LOL. Any property I acquire will belong to the family as part of our portfolio anyway.

In my hierarchy of attraction, race doesn't have a place as much "dark features" which white, Asian, and Latin men have equal standing. If a white guy believes there is something wrong or even "racist" with me being comfortable around blacks who share my values then something is wrong with him, not moi:). Whites do it and that courtesy should be extended to other groups too.

Brice Cameron By "dark" I mean Russel Wong, Johnny Depp, Oliver Sitruk, David Schimmer, Chow Yung Fat, Richard Chavira etc.

AJ2011

There is nothing wrong with being comfortable around people of your own ethnic group. Most people are. But if you are going to marry someone of a different ethnic group, then you will have to be comfortable around their people too. I was just sort of looking for clues as to what in your own experience makes you pessimistic. I don't understand your reference to white men's assumptions. I agree with your statement, but I don't get the relevance. Please elaborate.

Brice Cameron I'm comfortable around most people in most settings, my point is how my decision to live in a neighborhood that is black is perceived as something uninformed and limiting, like there is no value to be found simply because there are no whites. Whites can live in complete homogeneity and that choice isn't seen the same. Assumptions; that they're (black women) not interested in whites guys and expecting these women make an effort when white guys aren't willing to do the same. Even when you said that I should live among white men to date one. I can't meet them in places I frequent including my campus? How about my Irish Set Dancing Classes? My membership functions at the museum? Town Hall meetings? The city planning commission I "intern" at once a week? The VA? How does that work?

AJ2011

I was just asking a question. I wasn't trying to imply anything. I really wasn't trying to tell you where you should live or make a negative judgement about it. I think I offended you and I am sorry if I did.

Brice Cameron I can't communicate my tone over the web but I can't say I'm offended, at least not yet. Ask more questions if you think there is something missing. My main point is that black women are still women and for some reason they aren't given that benefit. A Native American women can say she is not dealing with a "Pale Face" and she is taken as a woman speaking for herself. A black women says I not dealing with the "slave master" and she is taken as a spokes person for her demographic and whats even worse is that black women get upset with her instead of the guys using her as an excuse to stereotype. That's not right.

AJ2011Brice Cameron I understand what you're saying...would we ever suggest a white guy interested in swirling move to a black neighborhood? IDK.

iHeartLove Doubt it and to be fair we'd assume they wouldn't before they could explain themselves.

AJ2011 ITA. I've brought up the same thing before. BW are expected to do all the work, while the men just sit around. Why do we have to move to white neighborhoods/events? Why can't they move to black neighborhoods/events? Like you said, you don't have to live in a white neighborhood to date IR. Why limit your dating prospects to your neighborhood? Since non-bm are not likely to go to black events anyway, you're doing what you can by attending "whiter" events like you mentioned.

Mel_womanAJ2011

" Why can't they move to black neighborhoods/events?"

Simple answer. White men just don't have to move anywhere to look for women. Why? Because they are not having trouble finding women who want them. I'll include those guys Law talks about who give up and get the little dog. All most of those guys have to do is widen their dating pool and there would be a woman of color who wants them. So no, the person with the weaker hand has to make more of an effort.

Here's the thing... whenever I'm talking with women (and not about race but just about relationships in general), this common thread of "Someone should tell me to stop being jerks/get married/stop cheating/be better/etc." always comes up. A lot of women get very offended when advice columnists/writers/etc. (especially the male ones) tell women what they should consider when seeking a quality relationship and ask them why don't they tell men to just "be better."What women don't seem to get is that men know men... and men know that men don't respond to being told what to do. They're going to do what they want to do regardless of what others tell them to do (maybe with the exception of their fathers or someone like that).So, since it is women usually seeking the advice, the only thing women can control is themselves and they're choices. So if a man is being jerky, dump him. If a man won't marry you, move on and find a man who will. If you're with a cheater, leave him. If these men in particular want to change, they'll do so of their own accord.So, back on topic. BW can get mad all day long about what non-BM are or aren't doing to show they're interest, but ultimately so what? You're still just as single and they're living their lives not thinking about you and pursuing the women who are in their orbit. Brenda55 Mel_woman AJ2011

Brenda55Mel_womanAJ2011

I'd also like to add that maybe the advice should be to try *diverse* and/or *upscale* places/neighborhoods and events.

'white' could be the trailer park or wrestling show. lolz. let's not get the two ideas all scrambled up. haha

"A Native American woman can say she is not dealing wiht a "Pale Face" and she is taken as a woman speaking for herself"

I doubt that one. As minorities I am sure many assume we speak for all.

The Working Home Keeper SOO understand that WHK, LOL, my cousins used to call us oreos...black on the outside, white on the inside, because we spoke differently. My brothers and sisters and I were like..ermmmm WHAT is speaking white!?!?!? Like what does that mean!?!?!?!? Can laugh at it now, but can sooo remember feeling like, why do they think we're speaking 'white' or trying to act 'white' what does act white mean!?!? SMH. hmm never thought of the loyalty to the Black community...interesting thought..will have to ponder that WHK. Was loyal to me, lol, so does that count!?!?

BrwnBeauty Yeah, I heard it all - act white, talk white, listen to white music, have a white girl name LOL!

NOOOO ROFL!! you toooooo

Jennifer Marie

heheheheeeee

BrwnBeauty Mary Ellen :)

Anne55

I absolutely agree. You have made a great point that foreign blacks cultures are equally foreign to AAs and White Americans. Even when a Caribbean/African is 'acting black' her black will still be foreign to the American black. So there is no difference between dating an AA man and a white man.

Joyce345Anne55 You summed it up perfectly. To me there's no difference between dating an AA man and a white American man. They aren't Jamaican and I identify culturally to Jamaicans... no matter what his/her skin color is. And contrary to what most people think, Jamaicans come in all colors and ethnicities.

You know, now that I think of it, I've never seen an African woman in the USA with an AA man. She's either married to an African man or a WM. Same with Caribbean women too for the most part. If her husband is black, he's Caribbean. Otherwise, he's a non-black guy. Joyce345 Anne55

Bunny77Joyce345Anne55 Wait Bunny-- do you live in DC?I don't remember if you were the poster that said you did?

Anyway--if not, come to DC! lol We have plenty of African women with AA men lol

Bunny77Joyce345Anne55 " I've never seen an African woman in the USA with an AA man. "

I know of one couple, my parents' friends...he's AA and she's from Sierra Leone. He met her while traveling there.

No, I'm from Detroit originally and now I live in Southwest Ohio. Not too many Caribbeans or Africans in either spot!I have spent a summer or two doing internships in DC and I did see a lot more African men and women... you're probably right about the types of relationships that happen there! sharisajidan Joyce345 Anne55

Anne55 I totoally get what your saying and as I first generation American whose family is also from Jamaica I agree with the statment that we were raised to be proud of being Jamaican.

Anne55 Totally agree. Most people, regardless of race, identify 1st and foremost with their culture. I grew up in a very racially and culturally mixed environment, but still it took me till college to really acknowledge that White-Americans are not just this generic and monolithic mass of white people. I know 3rd, 4th, 5th generation White-Americans who still hold their cultural traditions from being Italian, Irish, or even English. (some people don't even consider Italian to be white...) They have differing cultural backgrounds and they sometimes vehemently dislike each other despite both being white. Same goes for black people. Africans and people from the Caribbean can (not always) have very racist attitudes towards African-Americans.

KimberlyButler

As an African woman, I think also that part of it is for purely pragmatic reasons.

The president may be black but whites still own America.

An African immigrant from a Third World country trying to make it in America - or any western country - would not want to further increase the odds against them by failing to assimilate into the dominant group.

That is probably why many Africans in the US are keen on distinguishing themselves from AAs.

Africans cannot afford to segregate themselves among other blacks hence the need to mix.

Joyce345KimberlyButler

Agree on the different frame of mind thing: I also don't have the slavery baggage/history so I view things differently. I tell people I never knew I was black until I lived in N. America, especially the US.

However, cultural aspect is also big. Many African immigrants feel unable to relate deeply to AAs initially (until they've stayed a while) as they see similarities end mostly in skin colour. Culture and socialization within both groups differ greatly.

Datewise, I've tended to connect to Africans or WM, not AA dudes. Although in my case, living across different countries while growing up always kept my social circles multiracial.