Should We Cease To Embrace the One Drop Rule?

Should We Cease To Embrace the One Drop Rule?

As more and more of us swirl, how should we identify our progeny?

Author : "LorMarie"

Author's Website | Articles from

I am quite sure that you’re familiar with the ‘black people come in many different colors” or “we range from dark chocolate, caramel, and corn yellow” mantras. Heck, some of us are sandy-haired and green-eyed. Are we all really black? Growing up, I accepted the One Drop Rule but it always left me puzzled. Perhaps it is because I pondered the reasons why black people range and was troubled. The only reason that black people range is because of nonblack genetic influences. This revelation is in addition to the fact that this One Drop Rule has a negative origin…that being that blacks were at one time considered less than human so if you had our blood running through your vein, you were tainted. Why do blacks generally embrace a rule so deeply rooted in racism? Why is it so acceptable that anyone can be black but not everyone can be white or Asian? There are a myriad of possible reasons why blacks embrace it. Some are adamant that self-hatred is the cause meaning blacks just want to brighten up the race hence mixed folk are classified as black. Others believe it is due to the fact that black people are more accepting of biracial individuals as a result of a shared experience. We have also heard that blacks and mixed folk are viewed and treated similarly and should therefore share a identity. However, that has been proven to be false:

“We found that a light-skinned black male can have only a bachelor’s degree and typical work experience and still be preferred over a dark-skinned black male with an MBA and past managerial positions,”

Harrison found that in black women, credentials did play more of a role. If a dark skinned woman were more qualified, she got the position; however, if all things were equal, it would go to the lighter skinned woman.

 

So who exactly benefits from biracials self-identifying as black and who does it harm?

Many people believe that the inclusion of mixed race women actually harms black women with authentic west African features. In other words, light skinned and biracial women are privileged and seen as more beautiful because they are closer to the white ideal. This privilege banishes dark-skinned black women to the outskirts of femininity. This means that they will not to be presented as beautiful along with light skinned women of any race. There are exceptions to that rule but generally, the bias exists. For example, there have been eight black women nominated for the award for best actress in a leading role. They include Cicely Tyson, Whoopi Goldberg, Gabouray Sidibe, Angela Basset, and even a lighter toned Dorothy Dandridge and Diahann Carroll. Who becomes the first black woman to win the award for best actress? Halle Berry who is actually biracial. That is not to imply that Berry is a horrible actress but a question needs to be asked. Has a black woman ever won the award for best actress? Many will say no including those who are biracial.

The documentary, I’m Biracial Not Black Dammit! clearly shows us that many mixed race people do not believe in the union that monoracial blacks tend to embrace. They absolutely do not consider themselves black. Strong title aside, they simply want to be free to identify themselves how they see fit instead of taking on an identity forced upon them by society. Monoracial blacks may cry foul accusing them of rejecting blackness but they need to focus on the possible benefits. If biracial individuals are no longer viewed as black, society will have no other choice but to accept blackness for what it truly is. If a role calls for a black actress, the Gabriel Unions or Kerri Washingtons rather than the Thandie Newton or Paula Pattons.

Remember the iconic 80′s hit The Cosby Show? It featured biracial/creole women in an unrealistic casting with a brown skinned mother and an even darker father. Were Lisa Bonet and Sabrina Le Beauf the best women for the jobs or did they need biracial or light-skinned women in order to offset the presence of two darker sisters? So to those in the video I would say Your Biracial Not Black Dammit.

None of this is a slight against biracials because they are a special people. However, their presence in the race has been detrimental to monoracial black women. What about those who are adamant in solidarity with black women? Of course they should not be rejected but they should be sensitive to the plight faced by black women and respond accordingly. They should recognize that while they identify as black women, their features are in essence not authentically black.

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Aabaakawad 1198 pts moderator

In other news, Thandi Newton has also won the role of Margaret Thatcher in the coming TV series based on "The Iron Lady".

Obviously not. Yet she's supposed to play a Nigerian Igbo in "Half of a Yellow Sun"?

Well, there's a petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-casting-of-thandie-newton-in-half-of-a-yellow-sun-reconsider-casting-of-half-of-a-yellow-sun

Joyce345

My latest conversation: ForumPress

AJ2011 2310 pts

AabaakawadJoyce345

I read about this. There seems to be equal parts of people unhappy about the casting. just happy the story will be a major film, and the "who gives" a damn group. The comment about Margaret Thatcher is what I mean by the one drop rule only being a one-way-street.

Joyce345 1738 pts

AJ2011Aabaakawad

Bizarro... Why is it that black people - and by that I mean black women - are the only ones who are supposed to put up with this? And yes, a lot of bw will act like they are okay with it because they don't want to be seen as 'angry' or 'jealous' or whatever. Does this happen to women of any other race?

As Chris puts it, you don't get to pee in my cup and call it lemonade. Over and out.

ElfeV 7093 pts

semi-OT but fascinating:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Casta_painting_all.jpg

http://www.learner.org/courses/globalart/work/85/

"...By the end of the eighteenth century, sexual interaction and intermarriage among Spanish, Indians, and Africans in Mexico had resulted in a population that was approximately one-quarter interracial. Casta, or caste, paintings took the intermingling of races as their subject...

...From the beginning of the colonial period, the intermixing of races had been a point of anxiety among both Spanish and Creoles (individuals of Spanish parentage born in the Americas). As the interracial population grew throughout the eighteenth century and boundaries blurred between social and economic classes, as well as races, casta paintings sustained the illusion that racial identity was stable and reinforced hierarchies critical to maintaining colonial power."

ElfeV 7093 pts

I'm reading the wiki on the anti-misceg. laws in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States

This part is crazy:

"...Anti-miscegenation laws discouraging interracial marriage between white Americans and non-whites affected South Asian immigrants as early as the 17th century.[citation needed]For example, a Eurasian daughter born to an Indian father and Irish mother in Maryland in 1680 was classified as a "mulatto" and sold into slavery.[8] "

tha' hayle?

ElfeV 7093 pts

from the general entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation

"...During and after slavery, most American whites regarded interracial marriage between whites and blacks as taboo. However, during slavery many white American men and women did conceive children with black partners. These children automatically became slaves if the mother was a slave or were born free if the mother was free, as slavery wasmatrilineal. Some children were freed by their slave-holding fathers or bought to be emancipated if the father was not the owner. Many children of these unions formed enclaves under names such as Colored and Gens de couleur, etc. Most mixed-raced descendants merged into the African-American ethnic group during Jim Crow, while over the centuries a minority of mixed-raced Americans passed and became white, and others exist to this day in small mixed enclaves of Mestees such as the Melungeons and Lumbee.

Genetic research suggests that a considerable minority of white Americans (estimated at 1/3 of the population by some geneticists such as Mark Shriver) has some distant African-American ancestry, and that the majority of black Americans have some European ancestry..."

"...The Motion Picture Production Code of 1930, also known as Hays Code, explicitly stated that the depiction of "miscegenation... is forbidden." One important strategy intended to discourage the marriage of white Americans and Americans of partly African descent was the promulgation of the one-drop theory, which held that any person with any known African ancestry, however remote, must be regarded as "black". This definition of blackness was encoded in the anti-miscegenation laws of various U.S. states, such as Virginia's Racial Integrity Act of 1924. The plaintiffs in Loving v. Virginia, Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving became the historically most prominent interracial couple in the US through their legal struggle against this act..."

ElfeV 7093 pts

"Admixture in the United States

...Some claim the vast majority of African-Americans possess varying degrees of European admixture (the average Black American is 20% European) although studies suggest the Native American admixture in Black Americans is highly exaggerated; some estimates put average African-American possession of European admixture at 25% with figures as high as 50% in the Northeast and less than 10% in the south.

A recent study by Mark D. Shriver of a European-American sample found that the average admixture in the white population is 0.7% African and 3.2% Native American. However, 70% of the sample had no African admixture. The other 30% had African admixture ranging from 2% to 20% with an average of 2.3%. By extrapolating these figures to the whole population some scholars suggest that up to 74 million European-Americans may have African admixture in the same range (2–20%).

Dr Mark Shriver, the team leader of the study, found that he had 11% West African ancestry though he identifies as white. Studies based on skin reflectance have shown the color line in the US applied selective pressure on genes that code for skin color but did not apply any selective pressure on other invisible African genes. Since there are an estimated 6 genetic loci involved in skin color determination it is possible for someone to have 15–20% African admixture and not possess any of alleles that code for dark skin.[dubious – discuss] This is the basis of the passing phenomenon. Thus African admixture amongst white Americans can increase without any significant change in skin tone..."

ElfeV 7093 pts

"...Conversely amongst African-Americans, an amount of African Admixture is directly correlated with darker skin since no selective pressure is applied; as a result, African-Americans may have a much wider range of African admixture (>0–100%), whereas European-Americans have a lower range (2–20%).

A small overlap exists so that it is possible that someone who identifies himself as white may have more African admixture than a person who identifies himself as black.[297][298]

A statistical analysis done in 1958 using historical census data and historical data on immigration and birth rates, concluded that 21% of the white population had black ancestors. The growth in the white population could not be attributed to births in the white population and immigration from Europe alone, but had received significant contribution from the African American population as well.[299]

The author states in 1958:

The data presented in this study indicate that the popular belief in the non-African background of white persons is invalid. Over twenty-eight million white persons are descendants of persons of African origin. Furthermore, the majority of the persons with African ancestry are classified as white."

AJ2011 2310 pts

Mocha ZForestElfQueen Its been a pleasure as always. I have BIO in 6 hours and I have to hit the hay. I look further to more dialogue if you 2 are interested and feel free to be honest. Not saying you haven't been but I know where your perspective comes from so there will be on offense on my part.

Night, night:)

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen Good night :-D

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 I need to pack it in for the night too. Before I go..how about this for 'american blackness'?..a Venn diagram?...so one circle would be for w. /ss African or un-mixed AAs or Caribs etc living here... then another circle for multiracials, creoles, some AAs & afro latinos etc, ....& another for the 1st gen biracials?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Venn_diagram_gr_la_ru.svg/220px-Venn_diagram_gr_la_ru.svg.png

does that make any sense? haha no? i didn't think so. hahah maybe we need more circles? lolz.

G'nite!

ElfeV 7093 pts

from http://www.isteve.com/2002_How_White_Are_Blacks.htm

"In contrast, African-Americans are much more racially mixed than European-Americans. Yet, Shriver's study shows that they are less European that was previously believed. Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver's project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That's the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.

According to Shriver, only about 10 percent of African-Americans are over 50 percent white. This genetic database is restricted to adults. Black-white married couples quadrupled in number between the 1960 Census and 1990 Census, so the admixture rates among children are no doubt higher than among adults..."

"...The admixture rates vary by region. The African-American populations with the highest average numbers of white ancestors found so far are those in California and Seattle. They average a little over one-quarter European ancestry. In contrast, according to a recent article published by Shriver's team in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, the Gullahs of the long-isolated Sea Islands of South Carolina and Georgia, who are famous for speaking a pleasantly African-sounding dialect, are only 3-4 percent white.

In the rest of the rural South, African-Americans tend to be not as black as the Gullahs, but still blacker than the national average. Shriver's team found that the white admixture percentage in four Lowland farm counties in South Carolina was 12 percent. Cities, whether Northern or Southern, tend to be about average. In terms of white ancestry among African-Americans, New York is a little above the mean, while Philadelphia is a little below. Jackson, Miss., is near the norm.

The African-Americans of New Orleans average 22 percent white. This fairly high number reflects the influence of Spanish and French mores in Louisiana. Latin cultures have no "one drop" rule, so intermarriage was somewhat more socially acceptable there."

ElfeV 7093 pts

"...For centuries, however, American whites defined anyone with visible black ancestry as ineligible to marry a white. (It wasn't until 1967 that the Supreme Court overturned the "anti-miscegenation" laws that were then still in force in 19 states.) This meant that mixed race people could seldom marry white people. Unless, that is, they were white-looking enough to pass for white, and were willing to pull up their roots and move to a different part of the country where they could assume a white identity. This happened not infrequently in American history.

For instance, one of the slave Sally Hemmings' one-eighth black sons (who, according to geneticists, was fathered by either Thomas Jefferson or one of his relations) moved to Madison, Wis., after he was freed and founded a family of socially identified whites. Nonetheless, Shriver's data suggests that well over 90 percent of the African genes in Americans are still found in people who call themselves black.

Over the generations, mixed-race lineages would tend to either pass into the white population and become more white with each generation's marriage to a white person, or stay in the African-American population. If the latter, the families would normally become more genetically African over time as their offspring married African-Americans.

Thus, the "one drop" rule helped make African-Americans and European-Americans into two social groups whose members -- despite sometimes being highly varied in ancestry -- are perhaps more distinct on average in their family trees than the arbitrariness of the "one drop" would lead you to initially assume."

ElfeV 7093 pts

acc'd to this YTer : AA+Mexican+Chinese = Black

"Good Hair, Light Skin, Don't Care!"

http://youtu.be/8lAxebQhY0g

good nite! BBT

AJ2011 2310 pts

ForestElfQueen

Her approach to the subject seems air tight, well executed, and she even asserts her own individuality. But her argument is taped together if you will. And she is also being inconsistent and dishonest about the issue. NikkiDior, the girl she was responding to/about, had the unfortunate experience at the Natural Hair function. This was a space for Black Women who'd had the common experience of feeling inferior about their hair and by extension their blackness and they were celebrating their new perspective. Nikki Dior wasn't considerate or sensitive to that. How many blacks have the expectation of being accepted/embraced at white, mixed, etc events? No one deserves to be treated badly though. That takes care of the NikkiDior part.

AJ2011 2310 pts

ForestElfQueen

Now for the woman in the video.

Being teased by blacks isn't unique to mixed people and asking about race isn't a social activty for blacks alone. Consider the fact that mixed and white people will ask for your racial breakdown if you exhibit features that they don't consider ethnic enough for the black ID. So again blacks are held to a different standard. Her "black" is an option (she even said she chose it), mine isn't. How does that work? Black isn't a lifestyle just like white isn't a lifestyle. So she is redefining the black identity for her own personal use. Again how does that work? She said "we" create the community. "We" didn't create the tensions in our community, we just react to it. Mixed people, collectively, aren't vocal or active in mediating the conflict. Just like whites who don't agree with racism but understand racial equality will result in a loss of social privilege. She then says in so many word's "screw you, I don't care what you think." Its the best way to avoid an actual dialogue where she'll be exposed to the experience of black women, seeing how she and other mixed people can negatively contribute to that experience. But if you ignore your gut in favor of her comfort you are more than welcome in her presence. Sounds a lot like the reaction of white women to Chescaleigh's video. Finally she ignores the position light skin has in our little informal caste system. It exists in almost every society in the Western Hemisphere but she knows any perception of privilege will put her in a different position relative to the Black Lifestyle she has created for herself. There was a video about the preference for light skin in Hip Hop media. One of the light skin models said that it wasn't dark skin that caused the disparity, it was their "Negative Energy" and internalized insecurity. That woman, like young lady in the video you linked to, is full of it.

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011 Yeh, I couldn't understand if she was coming by-land or by-sea. I thought I was confused because it was late last night but I rewatched it and I'm still confused. lolz

Can Blackness(in the USA ) be a lifestyle choice? We already know that Whiteness has tall iron gates, w/barbed wire & a pack of Dobermans guarding it ...but maybe Blackness is different?

All I kept wondering was what was so wrong with her simply being what she is(AA+Asian+Latino). I also thought it was interesting that she pointed out her "chocolate" husband and surprise at having a light brown child(he's beautiful btw, i saw him in one of her other clips). I don't want to do what others have done to me and accuse her of trying to breed for coloring/self-hate.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen The woman that was linked is babbling about nothing in particular. Youtube really does have so many people that think because they have a voice they should speak. It's just not so, lol. Have no idea in the end what she was actually saying. She is rambling and making much ado about nothing, lol. Why is she even responding to the other woman's video with what she was rambling about? Was she there at the event and witnessed the experience. I wonder why she had anything to say considering she claims to have been victimized over the years. Jeez...too much free time and free internet usage, lol. Remember when you had tight limits to usage?

Oh, here is another Shima ranting videos, lol. She is so funny and I love how she addresses herself. Yes, this is every video....Shima this, Shima that!

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen This is her "good' "bad" hair video,lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg5M8RAs8pY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

AJ2011 2310 pts

Mocha ZForestElfQueen I like Shima. I'm not sold on her product but you have to admire her overall personality. She has a Spanish channel I watch. I understand little Spanish but I'm hoping if I watch it enough, I'll pick it up. But yeah that woman in the video was pretty transparent.

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 i loooove her!! she cracks me up!

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011Mocha Z

more of where hair talk meet racial/genetics talk:

i love this woman's channel....

http://youtu.be/OyX4FZrsIXw

http://youtu.be/Wbj6u8oC7uQ

anyway, IIRC she has/had a german grandmother and is african-american on the other sides. so maybe she'd be old-world-labeled as 'griffe'(1/4 euro 3/4 afro) but since many AAs are pre-swirled, who knows what her breakdown is. I'm guessing it doesn't matter to her because she IDs as African-American or Black. lol

In the info area, under one of her vids, she says that she has about the 'same amount of Caucasian DNA' as most USA blacks. However, I'm not sure if most AAs are 25%+ Euro or not? (will Google/Bing search later)

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011Mocha Z

I guess my Q is (re: the idea of re-labeling & preserving African ID) What's the theoretical cutoff? ...and would it be it based on parentage or phenotype? Does Victoria Rowell's son by Wynton Marsalis...Jasper(also 25%+ euro) get a black pass?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3254/rowellandfam.jpg

he's soooo cute! ^.^

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen I like her too. Ditto on the product. I wouldn't mind watching her Spanish channel. May just do that too.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 I am at least 25% due to the Scottish grandmother and AA others. Most AA I have met are not directly 25% white. On the same note, this womans hair is the same as my bff who has two black parents that are not mixed at least one, two or even three generations back. In fact, when she was younger, she looked like this woman a little. Her full blood sisters and brothers looked like they have more afro heritage. She can cut her hair in the winter and have mid back hair at the end of the summer. Her sisters had the same growing capabilities with very coarse hair.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 What would we call him? My son who is at the most 12% white looks more mixed than the boy on this picture.That kid on the pict is so darn cute.

My son looks like he has a black daddy(he does) and a white mama(I'm not). He came out with blonde on his body, sandy hair and super fair skin. He is darkening up some but he literally had/still has some blonde highlights in his hair and on his body. With the sun, he is darkening but he is still lighter than this boy in the pict. Do we go by genetics or looks?

My youngest daughter looked like her mama is Asian(I'm not) and her daddy was black(he is) because she has Asian folds over her lighter brown eyes,was fair, had freckles on her whole body and a cute round face with bright pink lips.

In fact, a black girl that didn't know her didn't like her at our all white church and insulted her with "You black Asian girl, lol!" Not to sound racist BUT....lol. I think the girl thought my daughter had an Asian mama. She looks like an exotic African girl now. Stopped daily by Africans to exclaim at her likeness to.......

She actually doesn't really look like the average AA girl. None of my children do. They could be from different parts of Africa.

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 how cute! I love freckles!

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 Me too...they faded when she darkened up. My mother, older sister and aunt have them...not fair!

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011 The Natural Hair thing is tricky for me...

I feel like *anyone* (Afro, Euro, Asian, Indian, mixed, alien) with a kink, spiral, wave, or curl should be truly welcome to participate. The fact is that many kinds of ppl w/ kinky, wavy, & curly have sometimes felt shame or tried to disguise it.

re: Nikkidior, I watched her vids and a few of the 'answer' clips & I still don't totally understand what event she went to, where it was, or what the theme was....

.... The events/shows/meetujps that I've seen advertised(so far) haven't made it explicit that it's *only for fully or near-fully W. African descended women who were formerly-ashamed or derided for having type 3c to 4z hair* lolz

& for all I know Nikkidior could've felt her hair was inferior or problematic at some point too ...or she simply wanted help/new ideas with her hair as well.

From what I gather, the 'greeter' (person who wouldn't give her a program or whatever?) was just being a jerk.

I do agree that all lot of this kind of ugliness could be avoided by people being more honest and not glossing over everyone as "Black". So in ND's case I guess she was the wrong kind of black for the hair party.

AJ2011 2310 pts

ForestElfQueen NikkiDior, in my opinion had an expectation and she experience didn't match it. So again I say she doesn't deserve to be treated badly but she is no position to judge the validity of the Natural Hair "community" because of her personal experience. If I get bad service at a restaurant and I can't say if the whole chain is a POS or not. She could go to the next meet-up and have a wonderful time. Either way she didn't invest any critical thinking into her experience but in her mind that is something blacks should do when it comes to her and people like her.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen "This was a space for Black Women who'd had the common experience of feeling inferior about their hair and by extension their blackness and they were celebrating their new perspective."

There are some main natural hair products manufactured and sold by biracial women. In fact, many curly products now include for mixed girls, some even are for different textures. Heavy thicker products for thicker hair, medium products and lighter product. I have a looser curl and my children don't so if I want to find products and mingle with women of different textures that can help my children, that would mean that I would have to either send my daughter in alone or stand at the door and see if one of the ladies with the "common experience" can bring me some products to the back door, lol. I don't agree that these events are just for a select group. Curly Nikki, Taryn, Kimmay are all women that have a loser texture than many bw and they not only attend these events but they have businesses and/or are vested in the community online and at the functions.

Nikki Dior has a valid frustration about having hair issues. I guess it wouldn't be that serious for me to be at those events unless that was the only way to get a product or ideas. On the other hand, I have hair similar to Nikki Dior and I can attest to going through hell with my hair at different times.

AJ2011 2310 pts

Mocha ZForestElfQueen Going through hell because it was hard to manage or going through hell because it's considered unattractive and unfeminine? The products, the product creators, and product users aren't what made the event or even the concept what it is, having a new perspective about a look that is so far removed from the mainstream is and even vilified is what attracts black women to the idea of Natural Hair. So should Nikki's experience have been better? Oh yeah. But could she identify with most of the women there? Nope and that isn't something she'll admit.

As far as Natural Hair, as whole my only interest is in the social evolution, how the sausage is made. Curl patterns, products, and the other stuff (how its packaged, where its sold, and to who) isn't something I get into. I got the info I needed in 2004 and called it a day.

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011Mocha Z If NDioe grew up around a lot of straight(ened)-hair folk it could have been a trial. i knew a euro guy who said his hair(i'd guess his is 'type 3c') helped to make him an outcast growing up. He also tried to chem. relax it to look more acceptable.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen I guess the question is....are the groups for products and ease of styling, hair accessories or joining hands in solidarity over the ugliness and discrimination that has gone on in the media, white and black circles over the years. If the event is about fellowship of the "outcasts" of hair then, yes, NikkiD was in the wrong place. Not sure the natural hair communities are being clear on who should come. I never knew the 3 and under hair textures weren't welcome or part of the experience. No she couldn't identify at all but i am not sure she was going there with that intention. I would have gone just as clueless until this was brought up. I would want to hear what other women with a looser texture have experienced. It may have been that one woman. Maybe it is a newer and growing sentiment to segregate the natural hair community by texture. I don't care considering I am too old to want to,lol. 20 years ago, I might have been hurt too...not today.

I do find it curious that at my age, 20 year olds are ready to make me admit to not being black and leave the black community. "Admit, you aren't really black, dammit!" Lol.......TOO LATE, I fall under the grandfathered "one drop rule" (said with my tongue sticking out). I ask my dd daily if I am black now....she falls out laughing with a very distraught look on her face. She can't have be call myself anything else but black. She is the fist afro earring wearing natural haired child and proud of it kind of girl. She defies her own father to call her ugly(he actually may as well have for his stupid comments about her and my sons hair). I cut him down figuratively (and literally wanted to cut him..not really....yeah really) and told him he better tell her that if she likes it, he loves it. Punk! BM with the self hate is sickening.

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 Even if the hair event was geared to type 3-4s, it's still kind of silly IMO to limit who can come in peace.

NDior or another person could also be shopping for ideas/products to be used by a family member, child, spouse, client whoever. It's silly for an attendee to be expected to look a certain way.

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 What did he say about their hair? Was he expecting theirs to look like yours?

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 Right....so now I might have to go to the back door again, lol. Not black enough for the event. This is actually comical because it puts people that look a certain way back in segregation. My poor children...what will they do with their "not black" mama. She can't by products for dem babies! I guess I'm no Negress after all, lol.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 Ohhhhhh yes! His whole family is sick and twisted about color and hair. I would have done better with a wm. He wouldn't have cared nearly like his people. His mother looks at my dd hair with disgust. I let the boy grow a nice big fro and load it with natural products but dare him to cut it during visits. It's so fun to watch my natural children with their curls while their daddy needs to have them look "neat and groomed" according to him. I usually don't even straighten my hair like I would sometimes do and wear it really big and curly like Taryn or two pigtails. He has the nerve to still comment on my hair. I look thru him with no answer.....that is actually what I have done for the last year. If I didn't, my words would be fighting words, lol. Actually, he doesn't make me angry unless he hurts my dd feelings. She is getting tougher and "fights"most of her own battles with him now...including her hair ones. She protects her brother's fro with her life!

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 Oh...dd looks just like daddy but if the old lady no likey her son....she no likey the son's babies. They always want to get her hair braided(hidden).

One of the bald, weave wearing cousins mentioned that she had the option of getting a relaxer. Duh, fo real? All of those women(younguns too) are bald....why would we listen to them? I pointed out that fact when daugthers mid back relaxed hair was suffering the effects of tennis, salty sweat, lack of time for care and the harsh sun. We grew it out some, did the big chop and she never looked back.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenAJ2011 Just saw a Euro American guy at church with a HUGE red fro. It was probably 9 inches round, lol. It was perfectly round and he was rocking it like a star!

AJ2011 2310 pts

Mocha ZForestElfQueen

Consider the Natural Hair thing as a Black is Beautiful movement for black women. Feel free to participate but also be prepare to be reminded of why its more than hair grooming tips. Hair segregation is already here. That man-made numbering system that gets repeated over and over again is how its spreads.

There is less then a decade between us and you're not being kicked out. A black woman is sharing her experience and perspective based on our differences. This contradicts a lot of what you believed to be true and rather the rest of the black and mixed population has the same ideas is yet to be seen. I think you know as well as I do that most Blacks would prefer to leave well enough alone.Black women with kinky hair, brown skin, and brown eyes are easily dismissed when they talk about their differences; jealous, racist, self conscious, negative, hostile, and that its their own fault they are having a hard time in their own country.

I still think the One Drop Rule is racist and the fact that blacks still adhere to it perpetuates that racism. Mixed people have a higher place in this social hierarchy saying their black is also saying to blacks "the problem isn't as bad as you thought." This allows blacks to be replaced by mixed people in key positions. There are very few mixed and even light skin people who are interested in promoting the darker side of the black population and why should they, its not their problem, right?

ElfeV 7093 pts

Mocha ZAJ2011 that's so crazy :< & a relaxer? esp for a young girl...no way. I can still remember how, as soon that mess started burning my scalp, I *instantly* regretted the years of begging my parents to let me do it. lolz. I think I was about 15.

re: Eurofros, my friend was convinced that his mom's family was part North African or something. His hair was close to this girls but longer/bigger, more dense:

http://youtu.be/9CwT7UZy5vY

he did WnGs(tried to hep me to it), pony puffs, sometimes a bandana headband. haha. he was a cute rascal.

ElfeV 7093 pts

AJ2011Mocha Z I think it really depends on the person's upbringing. I do think that there are lighter people that are concerned about & deeply connected to black & brown-skinned people, esp their own family members! lolz.

I do agree that the ODR/hypodescent is foolishness but I wonder where to go from here? Like I asked before what would the guidelines be? DNAtests? How a person looks? Genealogy?

it's so jumbled and tangled at this point,IMO.

ElfeV 7093 pts

PearlMocha ZAJ2011 I wanted one because 2 of my friends had them since like 6th grade and I thought that life would be so much easier (rain ,swimming etc). My hair just can't take chemicals well and it was a matter of time before it was breaking & staying around chin length forever. It snapped off as soon as I could grow it. lolz. I aslo knew nothing about caring for my kind of hair. My mom was pretty clueless since our hair is different.

I didn't chop it until college after a new stylist did a really uneven application and a whole quarter of my hair at the back broke off near the new growth. So my first 'big chop' was a no-choice deal. lolz

yeh, I might get silly, break down and flat iron in the unforseeable future(i had a setback year before last from too much heat, my ends looked like old broom bristles and i had to cut about 4-5 inches eventually), but the drano cream for my hair? never again.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

PearlForestElfQueenAJ2011 Wet sets were my favorite as a young girl....I could wear it for a week. The curl was great and less heat.

MZ Elf 2727 pts

ForestElfQueenPearlAJ2011 It is like drano isn't it? I used the Revlon relaxer so I could just blow dry and go during my teen years...bad idea...bad idea. My hair looked non existent, flat and dead...I mean dry.

ElfeV 7093 pts

PearlMocha ZAJ2011

i love Harmony's hair cut here

http://youtu.be/w7YAHNZaDUM

but i don't want to do another grow-out so I've been wet-bunning the area that would be cut and leaving the crown-bangs out to get a reasonable facsimile of the awesomeness. lolz!

MZ Elf 2727 pts

AJ2011ForestElfQueen My hair? Excessive shedding, single strand knots a week after a trim, none of the products working well enough without being too heavy/too light, lack of growth. I have curly hair closer to the scalp and straight on the ends. One area in the front of my head has a tendency to be bone straight...I think it's changed hormonally every so often. I have minimal styles from the lack of thickness(curly or straight). I can't wear braids, locks(without having 3-5 for lack of thick enough hair) or any other protective styles. I can't even do two strand twists and have a twist out. My version is four plaits taken down after they dry, lol. So very sad.....I have to laugh because it looks very pathetic when I have my 4 little braids in walking around the house. I could go on and on...unfortunately. This "good" hair has more "bad" times than good. I know people with very coarse as in stick a fist pick in it at the roots and it wont budge, doesn't burn, is never brittle, can withstand a curl, relaxer and color all in the same week and grows to mid back/waist lengths in any state. That is what I call some pretty darn good hair. My sister can grow hair to her waist. It's a loose curly texture, tangles easy, is now thinning and is always dry. She straightens it and it is fried. I'll take the thick stuff with the fist pick, lol. I also notice that I get zero help on the natural boards with my problemo. I stopped asking.

Shima is one of the thick hair women that can grow and maintain her afro relaxed hair. She shows her roots in response to her having loose textured "good" hair...it's thick, coarse and must be rope that is glued on her head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbtbvF10LM

ElfeV 7093 pts

OT but good.

'Black and Latino'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT7_oQzDYMw