Should We Strive To Raise Elite Black Girls?

Should We Strive To Raise Elite Black Girls?

As I devoured the pages Amy Chua’s Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, I had a pseudo-divine revelation…I’M NOT CRAZY NOR A DESPOT IN AN APRON.

Author : "LorMarie"

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As I devoured the pages Amy Chua’s Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, I had a pseudo-divine revelation…I’M NOT CRAZY NOR A DESPOT IN AN APRON. Like me, she thinks highly of her daughters. What mother doesn’t want her daughters to be top-notch? Let’s be real, mediocre just won’t cut it…especially not if you are a black woman or girl. I know what you’re thinking. ‘Why do black women have to take two steps forward when others only need one step?’ It’s not fair that such a burden is placed on us.’ Think about those two steps for a moment. Now ask yourself why we shouldn’t take two steps ahead of others. If we are ahead then we can essentially come out on top. And no, I don’t buy the notion that we must work harder to be equal. We must rid ourselves of that way of looking at society. After all, whites may be in power but which group is viewed as the most intelligent? It’s not the white race. This positive stereotype provides them with a much wider acceptance and opportunities.

That brings us to a way that black women can improve their station in society. We must strive to become the elite. We should set high expectations for our daughters. Don’t be content with a report card full of B’s or even B+’s. Teach them to work for and achieve the A’s. Let’s be clear about one thing; we should not simply tell them to get high grades but show them that we have the confidence that they can do it. We should also model the work ethic that we want to instill in them. We can do that by going to work on time and limiting the number of days we miss work. A conversation about your routine at work just might do the trick. That way, they will get an idea of how you efficiently complete your task. Letting her tag along to work with you for a day during winter, spring, or summer recess would be even better. In other words, we can’t expect them to do what we say if they don’t have the model.

Just imagine if black girls were known primarily as the studious high achieving ones.

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Zindzi_Zenani 1399 pts

My mother raised me to work hard at everything I do, just like she did (she used to yell, "spirit of excellence" to my sister and I when we walked into our school everyday) Got my Master's by 23.  However, the word "elite" sounds a bit classist to me.  I like to think I'm just hard-working.  

 

And I totally disagree that we don't have to work harder just to get as far.  There's faaaaar too much racism still in our society for me to believe that the playing field is equal.  My sis is getting her PhD and one of her white mentors moved to a more elite school and invited students that weren't even her mentees to join her, even though my sister had progressed farther.  Another white mentor took a white exchange student with her to an important conference instead of my sister, even though she basically did all the research for the paper her mentor presented.  In academia, its a known fact that PhDs who are Black & Hispanic are offered tenured positions much less often than their white counterparts, no matter what the qualifications.

 

My mother was always real with me about that and it saved me & my sis a lot of heartbreak over unfair treatment.  We expected it and were pleasantly surprised when it wasn't present.  

MZ Elf 2660 pts

“When I find myself sitting in a crowded classroom where no real instruction is taking place I can say history does repeat itself,” Jada wrote in her essay, according to the Democrat and Chronicle. “I feel like not much has changed. Just different people. Different era. The same old discrimination still resides in the hearts of the white man.”

 

This is part of an essay by one of "our daughters". She obviously knows she deserves something better and can't get it. There are so many out there like her and her male peers. Even if/when they escape, the damage is hard to fix. This is the stuff that should go viral on youtube, not Amber Cole.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T-lG1Wb2AfM

 

kc 36 pts

To be quite honest, I would rather my children build or create something worthwhile than recieve fantastic marks all through school, but create nothing. The G.P.A./rank model is a bit outdated. Just as the 8am-5pm class/after school time mainly benefits parents of children, not children themselves.

CherieMaria 838 pts

 kc This is true. As a college student I would be lying if I said our GPAs aren't somewhat important in college but the truth is unless you are going straight to law school or any other program right after that depends heavily on a GPA, when it comes to starting a lucrative career  it is more of who you know , what internships you have access to and skills that you possess outside of a classroom atmosphere(something that college doesn't always prepare us for). Im getting closer to my last year and Ive seen too many before me work their tail off for a high GPA but not invest in anything else to get them in the door of a career. Don't get me wrong, grades are important and I keep my GPA very high but you dont need creativity other skills and networking skills also because most employers aren't counting the number of A's. Of course its possible to do both, which is the best option. Now, before a child reaches the college level, grades are obviously important to get you to that level in the first place.

Blanc2 343 pts

Much of "Tiger Mom" resonated with the way we raise our kids.  Among other things, both of our kids are required to play piano and will be required to do so until they no longer reside under our roof.  Daily practice is optional.  On our fridge, we have a sign that says:  "You only have to practice on days that you eat."

 

We have found that it's amazing what kids can do if you simply expect them to do it.  Our son is a sophomore in high school and he is alreay in AP calculus, AP music theory, and AP Spanish.  He can play the Pathetique in its entirety, with beauty and real passion, and he can play "Lila's Dance" (Mahavishnu Orchestra) or "Beelezebub" (Bill Bruford) on drums.  He rows on a rowing team. He's amazing.  Our daugher, in 6th grade, carries a 97 average across all subjects, plays C1 and Olympic Development soccer, plays piano in the school orchestra and saxophone in the school jazz band.  She is also amazing.

 

As parents, our job is to help our kids be their best, and to create as many options as possible for them up to age 18 so that when they step out to college they have a wider spectrum of choices.

Zindzi_Zenani 1399 pts

 Blanc2 Basically.  My mother invested BUNCHES of money into music lessons, instruments, conservatories, orchestras, marching bands, master classes and music camps for my sister and me.  Neither of us still play the flute, LOL.  (Well, we can still play, but we don't take lessons or play with any ensembles.)  However, we were WIDELY EXPOSED because of that.  Met people we would've never met, went places we would've never gone.  I actually got a job at a top university in the music department because I did have so much musical knowledge.

 

My mother always stressed to my sister and me that we were, "citizens of the world."  There was nothing good we didn't deserve if we worked hard for it.  Her expectations were high and so was our performance.  My sister is the type of person who probably would've excelled regardless of expectations but not me.  If my mom hadn't made me do my homework and made me practice my instrument, I wouldn't have.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

At the risk of stirring up controversy, I'd like to see something in the way of a similar future topic about raising sons.

 

It's all well and good to consider the raising of daughters, but what approaches can be taken given  the tremendous cultural pressures in place for boys to under-perform?  How would you go about raising sons to excel against stereotype?  A lot of the blame is placed on how boys are dealt with in the educational system, but this is the same educational system, unchanged little, that fostered excellence in White males 40 years ago.

 

Karla 18226 pts

 Law Wanxi You're not stirring up controversy because oekmama talks about her son below and we also have your experience as a son.  Although some blame is placed on education, I think a lot of it is placed at the mothers' feet, particularly single moms (e.g. "A single woman can't raise a boy.").  My parents' SPECTRE motto applied to my brother as well and he is now interviewing for a judgeship.  My father gave him the benefit of his experience as a BM dealing in a competitive (read White) world so my brother has common sense as well as a keen, analytical mind.  He was Valedictorian at his high school, did EE as an undergrad, worked for Motorola for eight years, took and aced the LSAT and was accepted to Michigan Law School (at the time, the number two school for Law behind Yale).  He passed the Bar the first time (the "no-failure" rule runs deep in our fam) and has a varied career in law from a prosecutor to sports attorney to corporate lawyer to a part-time family court judge to assistant AG (received top honors as lawyer of the year there).  My brother says he sees, every day, the effect of cultural pressures on his brethren (across all races) and it's not pretty.  In fact, he believes that's why he's able to compete so effectively.  He brings his home training and varied experience to the table.  This home training has also affected how he deals in his personal life as well.  He doesn't consider himself a "kang" nor does he make himself sound or look better on the backs of BW.  He knows better than that because my mother, sister and I would kick his intelligent a** up and down the street.  In fact, most women see him coming and God knows, I have had to get brutal with the honesty (he told my mother I'm the "Dragon Woman" and cold-blooded because of my (true) assessment of his lady friends).

MZ Elf 2660 pts

 Law Wanxi I agree and this weighs heavily on me. My solutions when all else failed is homeschooling but that isn't possible for everyone. The article I posted above is about inner city public school failure but I have been in some awesome school districts that could easily deal with the "minority" children stereotypically. When that happens, it is very hard to overcome. Thankfully, I had the opposite experience.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

 Mocha Z 

"...easily deal with the "minority" children stereotypically."

 

The Liberal soft prejudice of diminished expectations.

MadamCJCPA 1125 pts

 Law Wanxi I am approaching a conundrum with how to effectively raise and mold my son.  My husband and I do not see eye-to-eye on how to motivate our son into getting his grades up.  My husband has a very lax attitude towards our son's education; where as I because of my own personal drive for perfection expect him to bring home all A's.  My husband has the benefit of "white-male priviledge," so the fact that he didn't get straight A's in school never effected his opportunities.  Unfortunately, he refuses to acknowledge that our son doesn't have that advantage; my husband in his efforts to not acknowledge race (and be seen as a racist ) I feel he is setting our son up for failure because little black American boys that cannot compete with their foreign counterparts will be written off and left to twist in the wind.  Alas, this causes the most strife in our marriage as he feels it's the schools fault for assigning so much homework that kids have no time for TV and video games.  Two areas of our household where I am now the villian because I've basically banned Jon from being allowed to do either until his grades reflect a level of excellence that I feel is appropriate.  My question is, How do you raise your son with a high-level of achievement if his father is consistently coddling him?  I want to step back and release control to my husband in the raising of our son, but at the same time feel that if I do it will be a disaster.  My husband says I'm a control-freak (and it is true), but what can I do?  Being born black and knowing how the world views us when we allow mediocrity to reign supreme I refuse to allow our son to fall prey to societies' expectations (or rather lack there of) for black boys.

oekmama 1047 pts

 MadamCJCPA  I'm the same way. I  have the same situation with my husband. He just says that the cream always rises. So it is on my head too. Since I work part time, I consider myself the COO - Chief Operations Officer.

Perhaps you need to have a talk with your husband about providing a united front.

Granted, we have a different system over here, where the teachers say at my son's level - they should only be sitting down for homework for max one hour. Maybe you should have a word with the teacher as to how much homework in a time-measure is expected at your son's level.

About TV and video games, I'm not sure banning is so good. As I understand it, these are entertaining rewards for grownups after a hard day/week at work. Why should it be different for kids? And for kids (unfortunately) their 'hard day' isn't done til the homework and prep for the next day is done.  It's all a matter of how you phrase it. :-D

On the other hand, I tell my kids almost every day, that they didn't get a 'nice' mommy nor a 'buddy'. They got a mother. And I'm not afraid of being called 'stoopid mommy' or being not liked, coz tomorrow is another day, and kids forgive quickly - I just want a 'Thank You' when the report card full of As comes.

MadamCJCPA 1125 pts

 oekmama Well, with regards to TV and video games with my son, he likes to half-ass his homework in order to finish faster to have more playing/viewing time.  When I ask to him to show me his homework in order to approve it before he was allowed to play there was never any real effort or critical thinking put into it.  I partially homeschool my son due to the fact that the public school he attends I find their curriculum to shoddy at best.  The basics are being taught only sparingly, Reading, Writing, and Math have been replaced with computerized multiple choice tests and calculators vs. good ol' fashioned paper and pencil, and a dictionary.  It is because he cannot walk the fine line of balance with "A" quality homework AND fun time that fun time had to be eliminated completely until Summer vacation.  Yes, he has expressed that I'm not a "nice mom" like such and such's mom, (it was hurtful) but at the end of the day I know I am the adult and one day in the future he will understand the method to my madness.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

 oekmama  MadamCJCPA 

The cream does NOT always rise to the top.  Examine a carton of homogenised milk.  America is hell-bent on homogenisation as a cure to everything wrong and your son could easily be pumped at extreme cultural pressures through very narrow educational/social tubes through the system and come out as dumbed-down as the rest; unable to form that rather tortuous metaphor, or even understand it, incapable of making sense of a lengthy and complex sentence like this one.  [I say, that took a bit of doing, lol]

 

As far as husbands, someone needs to lead and someone else needs to follow or get out of the way.  [ring any bells, Karla ?].  You have my vote for CEO - Chief Education Officer.  

MercedesHasLeftTheBuilding 1060 pts

i have a new twist on that saying:

 

"Lead,follow, or be GOTTEN out of the way."

Karla 18226 pts

 Law Wanxi  oekmama  MadamCJCPA  Yes, it does.  "Ding ding, ding ding!  Commander (in every sense of the word), departing."

Karla 18226 pts

 MDNA2 Exactly the way I see it.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

At some point, the child needs to start taking some initiative on their own and not be passive in pursuit of excellence.  Parents need to inspire and support those efforts, by helping the child select appropriate self-directed goals.

 

I started out in the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong in 1977.  There was NO stigma among Chinese of any refinement about "sounding White".  I don't know how boat-dwellers in the harbour felt about that and furthermore and to the point, I didn't and don't flipping care how they felt about Chinese with posh accents.  We lived in the hills and we literally and figuratively looked down on the boat dwellers.  Their commonality with us began and ended with phenotype.  I knew I wanted to sound like the people on the top of the heap and those were "public school" [not state school] educated Brits.  I know a lot of you view television as The Devil, but it can help broaden horizons, if used sparingly and effectively by parents.  

 

I started out at about age four trying to sound like Allistair Cooke, as my grandmothers and governess suggested, listening each evening to "Letters from America" on the BBC Overseas Service.  You may wish to listen closely to this  http://youtu.be/1RmmhUejouY  and the next example.  Something to be learned from what they have to say, even though they are now seen as reviled and dread Dead White Males.  After a bit of time in school, I wanted more and decided that the best English sound on earth was the man later styled as Baron Clark of Saltwood http://youtu.be/r9lmepH9STs widely known to most as Sir Kenneth Clark.  Again, a vid well worth the watching.  I spent hundreds of hours with an Uher reel-to-reel with Sir Kenneth on one track and Wanxi on the other, Telefunken microphone in hand, to perfect it.  My tutors at school encouraged my efforts, telling BRIT kids that I had it right and THEY should emulate ME!

 

I acquired the posh accent by parroting every syllable in every episode of Clark's "Civilisation", plus, and I didn' mention him above, I lifted some posh from Jacob Bronowski, by repeating the word for word mimicking of each and every syllable of "The Ascent of Man", every episode on one of the first Betamax machines in the neighbourhood.  My Grandfather Law called in some favour from someone at the local BBC branch and provided me with copies of the programmes so that I could grow and improve.  Yeah, he loved me that much, I suppose; or alternatively, Grandmother Chu got him to do it.  Doesn't matter, my accent improved with the unintended consequence of me picking up some Dead White Male dogma along the ride.  Thus, I don't agree with Minnow; I don't see TV as "a vast wasteland".  IDK, maybe I'm deluding myself, but I lean more toward Murrow of 1958; "This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire."  I know it inspired me to be better than I thought I could be.  Properly managed by caring attentive parents it can do a world of good, as can the internet.  It comes with this caveat from the same speech, "it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends."

Karla 18226 pts

 Law Wanxi  I think one can say that about any medium.  It must be properly managed.  Both my parents came from the South but their accents are, for lack of a better word, "accentless"; they made every effort to improve their speech because they knew it could make a big difference in how they were perceived.  We kids spoke as they spoke.  I have often been asked what part of the country I come from because, based on my speaking voice, it can't be pinpointed.  And, I'm with you: I don't flipping care if people think my speech is too formal or sounds "white".

Veron 1400 pts

 Law Wanxi "At some point, the child needs to start taking some initiative on their own and not be passive in pursuit of excellence.  Parents need to inspire and support those efforts, by helping the child select appropriate self-directed goals."

 

Law, I swear to goodness, I'm going to start needle point embroidering your words and passing them out as decorative wall hangings. Maybe stencil art. Pop-up books. Anything to spread the message.

Betty Boo 259 pts

 Veron I Co-Sign, well spoken!!!

kc 36 pts

 Law Wanxi 

 

When my siblings and I were younger, our mother made us recite from Encyclopædia Britannica and the Oxford English Dictionary. She also made us imitate RP (Queen's English). By the time we entered grade school, people were asking us if we were British. I used to get marked down on spelling tests because I used some British spellings.  After a while, I taught myself to speak like my peers--a mix between Midwestern and AAVE. Today, I am able to code-switch, and do so all the time.

tracyreneejones 3545 pts

 Law Wanxi My recollection of the ideal known as 'cool' was when I realized that Sesame Street taught us ALL words!! The Spanish kids learned English and the American kids learned Spanish and it featured kids that looked like the kids I went to school with, tannish. Media is a tool, if everyone only knew of the impact it has...

Karla 18226 pts

Considering my parental pedigree, I had no choice but to be the best I could be.  My mother was a phenom in that she skipped two grades in high school (sophomore and junior years) and was in college when she was 16.  She was at Columbia University (an Ivy) at 20.  My dad was an engineer with an ROTC scholarship.  He had his masters in six years.  This was in the 50s, mind you.  I'm the oldest child so they started with me.  My mom was probably putting me through my paces when I was a baby because she has everything recorded in my baby book (something they used to do back in the day).  My first word wasn't "mama" (much to my mother's chagrin); it was "water".  I was using sentences by the time I was 9 months old and was potty trained by the time I was one.  My mom had an agenda because she was pregnant with my sister and was not about to have two babies in diapers (cloth only at that time).  I'll swear my parents were giving us subliminal messages as kids because none of us ever thought of doing anything else but going to college and that's exactly what we did.  I was a straight-A student throughout junior high and high school and graduated number 5 in my class (we had advanced placement classes that gave a 4.5 for an A and a 4.0 for a B so the top five were apart by hundredths; my GPA was 4.2).  I was on the Dean's list as an undergrad with a scholarship and in graduate school, I was never less than a 3.9 GPA (Navy wouldn't allow it).  I'm not giving this information to brag but to prove a point.  My parents had seriously high expectations of their kids and started from the cradle.  They did not tolerate anything less than an A and, believe me, we weren't being bribed to get good grades.  At the time, I thought it was harsh and sometimes felt stressed but it was good prep for the real world and I thank my mom and late father for pushing us hard.  My parents' motto was like SPECTRE from the James Bond series; they did not tolerate failure.

tracyreneejones 3545 pts

 Karla Bad grades....*looks around* Where? I understand that upbringing, my foster parents were older people, I had the baby book and steps to master. Even though our parents had expectations, it wasn't just talking. It was also environment, I am my mother's daughter, for every infant born of girlfriend's has received an abacus as a toy/gift. Why re-invent the wheel. My daughter was a wrestle and my opinion of how one might instill expectations has changed drastically. She's expected to excel, no matter what, because this journey is far easier then those that did more with less. 

Karla 18226 pts

 tracyreneejones Very true.  Unfortunately, even though there's more to help kids achieve, sometimes it's used the wrong way and gives the kids a sense of entitlement not achievement.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

 Karla 

"Considering my parental pedigree,"

 

So that's how you got to be Best In Show!

Karla 18226 pts

 Law Wanxi LOL!  At the risk of sounding arrogant, yes!

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

 Karla 

"Take her up and back, then around the third cone..."

Veron 1400 pts

 Karla "Unfortunately, even though there's more to help kids achieve, sometimes it's used the wrong way and gives the kids a sense of entitlement not achievement."

 

This.  It's too easy for the in-and-upcoming generations.  They have no sense of self-responsibility.  Every single avenue is open to them, but instead of getting up and walking toward the opportunity, they sit down and wait for the opportunity to come to them.  "Effort" is a word in a foreign language, and if something has to be earned with hard work, then they don't want it.  And don't get me started on the unrealistic expectations.  Goals aren't set and worked on until achievement, they're set and then begged, prayed, and wished for. Young people really need to get the message that they are they're own motivation.  They are the only ones living their life. No one else can or should have to do it for them. 

 

I could harumph forever. I'm totally the crotchety 25-year-old yelling at high schoolers to get off my lawn.

MZ Elf 2660 pts

 Karla  Law Wanxi No...just telling the truth! I think it's awesome that you come from that background and parental pedigree. If those had been my parents, I would have been in heaven! I swore that I got dropped down with the wrong people, lol.

Law Wanxi 5788 pts

 Veron  Karla 

Darned kids and their skateboards/bicycles.....

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Brenda55 19412 pts moderator

 Matrix12 "In European countries alot of immigrants are not being allowed to integrate, there's a saying they have in France, "France is for the French" its not a racial thing as much as it is a nationalist thing. African/Arab immigrants are shoved on the outskirts into project-type living conditions and not really allowed to move up in the professional world, because remember, "France is for the French". So unless you're already rich and well established or marrying someone who is, I wouldn't suggest moving to Europe."

 

I am glad that you made this point and it is one of the reasons why I feel that all of this talk  America's decline is wrong and why is see movements that limit immigration and integration so wrong headed.  Call this the land of opportunity, the Dollar princess, melting pot what have you. People still want to come here. 

MZ Elf 2660 pts

Yes! It's difficult when society is so lax with their standards. Most people think you are a Nazi mama when you are just trying to be the garden variety "Chinese mother". You know the kind that makes them practice violin, tae-kwon-do and piano while practicing French and typing an essay, lol. With my oldest, sometimes I joke she would have done better with her talents if I were a crack mother in a roach motel instead of driving her miles daily to a prep academy and rushig her to all her private lessons before returning safely to her cushy and spacious room in "The Castle"(her friends' name for our house)

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MZ Elf 2660 pts

@Rosie S My perpective deals with the idea that kids want to be like their peers...the 95% people. No matter how much you try to convince some children, they want the easier path that the 95% seem to have. If children are surrounded by the 95% and they were overachievers, they usually want to compete with them. Keeping them in that environment is a tall order in western culture. Even children of immigrants see it happen with their children.

oekmama 1047 pts

 Rosie S I'm not sure lax standards are a good thing. If you accept or set lax standards, then you send your kid the subtle message: I don't think  you're good enough to be the top 5%.

Kids don't see that 'oh I'm competing with the top 5%' -Big picture.Or the 'in 10 years, I can study anything I want, because I kept up in Math class'-Big Picture. That's too far in the future, too intangible.

My son's only in the 3rd grade,but he knows that a B is kinda okay, but an A is better. Why? His Dad pays him a bonus (just like Dad gets for good work) for every A he brings home. That's a tangible that kids 'get' which has overridden that desire to be like the 95%.

 

PS - I don't believe in comparing my kids with other kids (that'll just give you grief). I tell him I'm not interested in the other kids, I'm only interested in how he did in school. I compare my son with himself. He knows that it's not just his cleverness - he has to put in the hard work and effort. [I don't have daughters, but it's the same principle.]

Karla 18226 pts

 oekmama  "I'm not interested in the other kids, I'm only interested in how he did in school. I compare my son with himself."

 

Yes!

MZ Elf 2660 pts

 oekmama  Rosie S "I don't believe in comparing my kids with other kids (that'll just give you grief)"

 

Ditto. That doesn't fly with me either. I would have people tell me that I expected too much from my children. Compared to who, I wondered and asked. Lol, one woman thought I was too good to my kids, expected to much from them and was too good at taking care of my family. Naturally, we didn't stay acquainted for long...mutually decided, lol.

MZ Elf 2660 pts

 oekmama  Rosie S "I'm not sure lax standards are a good thing. If you accept or set lax standards, then you send your kid the subtle message: I don't think  you're good enough to be the top 5%."

 

When my dd went to kindergarten, there was a girl that didn't think she could do the school work in the class because someone at home kept telling her she was only just 5.  That child never could overcome that the whole year. The rest of the kids were so motivated by the overachieving, constant drills and discipline that the girls were excellent in math and the boys in English/Reading. No one was convincing them that only girls know how to read and only boys do well in math. Those kids knew that the competition was stiff in that class and the majority of them loved the challenge.

Seenyc 785 pts

@oekmama @Rosie S My parents gave me money for good grades until I realized I was capable of getting good grades just because I was smart! I still took the money though, lol!