Swiring and the International N-Word…Burning Questions on Race and Relationships in Deutschland.

Swiring and the International N-Word…Burning Questions on Race and Relationships in Deutschland.

Do you talk about race with your significant other, or men you date of a different race? Do you think MAJOR differences in racial politics is a deal breaker?

Author : Christelyn Karazin

Author's Website | Articles from

by: Ieishah Clelland

A German publisher decides to remove a few negers from a beloved children’s tale, and volks are acting like there’s new Führer in town, herding whites into ovens or something.

Okay. That was mean.

In “The Little Witch and a Big Problem,” Lucian Kim, an American journalist based in Berlin, explains what’s happening over here with a much cooler head.

“When publisher Klaus Willberg announced earlier this month that the next edition of the children’s classic “Die Kleine Hexe” (“The Little Witch”) would appear without outdated, racist terms, he was met with an unexpected storm of protest.”

Hundreds of angry e-mails poured into his Stuttgart-based publishing house, Thienemann, the online peanut gallery went berserk and even the stodgy weekly Die Zeit ran on its cover alongside black characters from various children’s books a headline that could be translated as: “Kids, these aren’t Negroes!””

You’d think someone was depriving Germans of a basic human right; that someone was taking away universal healthcare. Or Christmas. Or schnitzel. Kim goes on to play Neutrality Man, making the argument that the word ‘neger’ was common (read: innocent) German usage when “The Little Witch” was written in 1957. Furthermore, he’d read the story as a child, and couldn’t imagine what people were objecting to at first. German newspaper, Die Zeit, subsequently published an editorial criticizing Thienemann for cleaning up the book’s language, as well as the Minister of Family for supporting the decision, saying she’d long since omitted the word when reading stories containing it to her own children. Ishema Kane, a 9 year old mixed German girl, fired back at Die Zeit with an angry missive–

“You cannot imagine how I feel when I have to read or hear that word. It is simply very, very terrible. My father is not a ‘Neger’ [lightning bolt sign] nor am I. This is also true for all other Africans. Right. That was my opinion. This word should be deleted from children’s books.”

Note to my unborn child: This is how you fight.

And still, many Germans go on as though removing the word from children’s stories (CHILDREN’S STORIES!) is an attack on German culture itself. As though children like Kane are not German, and don’t deserve to grow up in a more respectful nation than existed in the wake of World War II. It’s such a peculiar mutation of racism that you end up explaining, even to a man with 3 mixed race children, why this thinking is warped. His advice to his sons, who are ready to fight anyone who calls them anything other than the names their mama gave them? Relax!

“What’s the big deal?”, he says to me over barbecued chicken and red wine. “Neger just means black.”

He can defend the fatherland all he wants. His sons are listening, and they need to know they are not the problem here.

“But you have a word for “black”,” I remind him. “It’s schwarze. How about you not be a dick, and use that? How about you have your sons’ backs when they feel disrespected?”

“But my sons are German, just like me!”

That’s when the little one, barely six, taps is father on the hand to get his attention, then rubs his own little colored arm and shakes his head. “We’re not the same. I’m brown”. If little Miss Kane, and little Mr. “I’m Brown”, here, are any indication, the next generation of Afro Germans isn’t going to be very easy to silence.

For the mother’s part, a black Canadian who has lived in Germany for more than a decade, leans in and whispers, “These are the conversations you need to have before you get married.”

My German boyfriend, Honey, and I had never not had “these conversations”. We’re in love, and infatuated, and in awe of it all…but no so much so that we don’t talk differences and fault lines. We argue race. A lot. Because I need to know that if our future son or daughter wants to write a letter to Die Zeit, he’ll proofread it and pay for the stamp. Not tell him/her to “relax”. We don’t always agree, but at least we know how the other thinks about these matters. It’s a grueling process sometimes. But if you can navigate these sensitive waters as a couple, your relationship never get caught in the undertow.

*****************

Months later, at a brunch thrown by another black American woman here in Berlin, I end up surrounded by a small group of Black and mixed race women, talking relationships.

“I just got out of a relationship. With a white guy,” a petite German-born Cameroonian woman with eyes wide and dimples deep says, her face contorted in disgust.

“Okay. Bad break up?”, I venture.

“Ugh! No more white guys! I’m looking for a nice black guy now!”

I’ve heard this before. I have a black British friend in Barcelona who declared she was also no longer dating white men. I advised her to go back to London, where good black men were aplenty. In the end, she ignored my advice and found her unicorn right there in Barcelona, standing in front of a high end men’s clothing shop, where he worked as a buyer. They are now the perfect little wedding-cake-top chocolate couple. I wasn’t going to knock Dimples for her choices, especially when I’ve seen it work. Still, there are so few prospects here when it comes to black men…I challenge her. For her own good.

“Well, what was the problem?”

“He just didn’t understand me! Like, you know how you see a black man in the streets and you say, “Hi”, or nod? It’s normal!! But he would always say it was racist. Why couldn’t I just say hi to everyone…things like that he just didn’t get. It was the worst!”

Dimples had simply had enough of explaining. Enough of breaking down her brand of black. She didn’t want this type of negotiating to be part of her work in a relationship.

Honey and I have always been on the same page when it comes to the N word, and until one morning over coffee and race talk, I thought we were cool on the nodding at random black folks thing. I do it. It’s not so easy being black in Germany. I try to acknowledge that by acknowledging “us”. A nod, a “Wassup”, something. At least, I used to.

So one morning over coffee and race talk, the subject of Homie resurfaced. You know, That Awkward Moment When Honey’s Black and IRR Married Friend Hit on Me? I don’t remember how we got on the subject, but I realized that I had never really talked him through Homie’s thought process.

“Babe, to him, you are the outsider. Even though he’s known you longer, he thinks that because he and I share a skin color, we share some intimacy that goes beyond what you and I share. And he fully believed that I wouldn’t tell you, that I’d protect him, and my loyalty would be with him. He may even have expected me to prove my loyalty to the race by accepting his advances.”

It was an “aha” moment for Honey. He even said, “Aha!”. Then he took it somewhere I didn’t expect.

“Do you see now why some white guys wouldn’t like their girlfriend greeting every black man they see in the street? It could be misinterpreted.”

And that was my “aha” moment. Dimples was only thinking about herself, her feelings, and every random black guy in the street’s feelings, making her boyfriend, essentially, the outsider. She thinks it’s a just a nod, but in the end, it signals some sort of predetermined intimacy between you and a stranger, a strange man, at that, that your actual intimate partner isn’t allowed in on. And I was doing exactly the same.

She (and until that morning over coffee, I, too) could not look past the language her white ex-boyfriend may have used, to what was actually being said. It isn’t that greeting every black man in the street is racist, (wrong choice of words) it’s that it invites idiocy like what I experienced with Homie. If I’d had a history of shutting down Honey’s race thinking, we’d never have gotten there.

And since we often require that white people simply shut up and listen when it comes to race, even our partners often don’t learn how to communicate in a way that doesn’t push our buttons, trigger ancestral memories, and generally piss us off. But you can’t shut down lines of communication in relationships for any reason, or they’re doomed to fail.

Do you talk about race with your significant other, or men you date of a different race? Do you think MAJOR differences in racial politics is a deal breaker?

Lastly, is there any way in this wondrous universe to explain–in a way I can understand–why the hell so many people think removing the N-word from a children’s story is an attack on culture? Honey’s no help here. He doesn’t really get it either.

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Just going by my experiences being half black & German and having family from my mum's side in Germany and now living in the UK, I have experienced more blatant racist and slurs in the UK living in a predomoninatly white town, but then again I have only really spent short periods of time in Germany. I think Germans can be more covert about their racism than say Americans. For example I have only ever experienced racism whilst shopping in Germany and never in the UK. I have been to a couple of shops there and have been followed and asked questions such as if I plan on buying that item and been made to feel uncomfortable. Also Germans will often complain about the influx of foreigners such as the Turkish, many people in Europe in general complain about foreigners coming into the country. But very rarely will Germans say a racial slur to your face they are more covert with their racism.

I once met a guy in Germany, which was just a summer romance, he wasn't ashamed to hold my hand and be open with me in public, generally German men like to date black women I think moreso than men in the UK.

I think white British men tend to be more small minded about what type of women they find attractive and prefer a Cheryl Cole type, whereas in Germany a hot German would date a not so attractive woman (someone with unconventional looks like Tilda Swinton) or a woman of a different race, they seem less shallow in their tastes to me than English men.

q____q 7 pts

It's so nice that this is discussed here, in an non-German blog. I've been following (and been disgusted by) the debate in Germany (I'm German) and I can assure you that everybody who says that the German nword isn't racist or derogatory is a racist, nazi or really, really stupid (of course you need to be the latter to be any of the first two). And it course DOES NOT „just mean black“ (someone argues like that? Racist).

 

The thing about why it is „a problem“ (it isn't) to erase racist shit from children's books (or any other kind of „literature“) is that (conservative) people have crazy views on (especially „classic“) texts being „sacred“ and author's rights/intentions and whatnot. It comes down to this: When you translate Shakespeare to modern English (and erase the racism and sexism) is it still Shakespeare? Is it still Shakespeare if you only translate the words no one uses anymore today? How much of the text can you change without the text not being Shakespeare any more? Is it still Shakespeare if you just erase the nword (it probably is). Generally, I think this is a pretty interesting thing to think about but making this the argument in this context it is just disgusting.

 

ieishah 833 pts

 q____q "It comes down to this: When you translate Shakespeare to modern English (and erase the racism and sexism) is it still Shakespeare? Is it still Shakespeare if you only translate the words no one uses anymore today? How much of the text can you change without the text not being Shakespeare any more? Is it still Shakespeare if you just erase the nword (it probably is). "

 

Hey Q, great question! I'm reminded of reading Tom Sawyer with my 10 year old students in Spain. It was an abridged reader for young ESL students, and didn't include the 'n' word. Actually, it didn't change the spirit of the story so much. That said, in an American classroom, where the teacher can (and should!) engage the students on context, actually, the inclusion of the N-word doesn't bother me so much. In an ESL classroom (especially in a country where race is discussed in a completely different way), I think it's inappropriate. ("Injun" was not edited out of that version, and I did spend an entire class discussing it...)

 

But in a children's story (not of the age wherein one can discuss context, politics, etc.) I think it's incredibly dangerous. So, no I wouldn't say offensive language in Shakespeare should be edited--it's for older audiences who have the capacity to contextualize. 

 

BTW, I LOL'd at your first paragraph. So on point! And so unforgiving...which is why it's on point!

q____q 7 pts

I just realized that this "nword just means black"-bullshit has another layer: people who argue like that think that you are really stupid. Too stupid to realize that in 99% of all cases when someone says it, it's totally clear that it's meant as an insult. Imagine someone snarling at you in the streets: "Go back to your country fucking blue!" and then arguing that "blue" is "just the name for a color, no offense". How ridiculous is that? (I know this example is a little flawed because "black" happens to be a (sometimes very inaccurate) way of describing the skin-color of the insulted so no one would really say "blue" but still …)

tatianarichards 57 pts

"Do you talk about race with your significant other, or men you date of a different race? Do you think MAJOR differences in racial politics is a deal breaker?" Yes ma'am! SO much i could say, but i'll keep it short: I was nodding my head the whole time I read this. My German husband is my black son's stepfather, and if he had shown even the tiniest lack of will to understand, we wouldn't have worked. He doesn't trivialize our experience with the racist elements of German culture, the same way I didn't trivialize the hostility many black men directed toward him when we lived in Alabama. Oh, and he doesn't see the problem with taking Neger out of the books, either. So I can offer no enlightenment as to why a nation of folks who'd bristle at being called Nazis are so staunchly defending this N word.

KimberlyButler 57 pts

I live in Berlin and my boyfriend is German. This is a constant struggle. Sometimes he trivializes my experiences. He says it worse then the south. I've been spit on in berlin, called the nword, stared at mercilessly...it's a tough transition. Germans always assume I know my African ancestry even after I explain I'm America, my parents are American and so on. In Europe, I realize ppl just do this. It's a tough transition for me being from Southern California. I'm often scared to be out late without him, because some crazy German may try me...they often do. I have also changed the way I dressed to attract as little attention as possible. Germans love to stare. Just today, while visiting hamburg for work, I was called Schwarzenegger ...meaning black nigger...or negro, but they know what that means. I'm sorry, many play ignorant, but it really is up to you to check them at all times. It is stressful, but I've found a core group of expats that I surround myself with to get my mind off of it. Blackgirlinberlin

Karla 19184 pts

 KimberlyButler My four cousins live in Berlin and say the same.  They were born and raised there and have a German mother (my uncle is their father).  They agree.  It's a constant struggle, day to day, even having lived there all their lives.  They are dual citizens so have often thought of coming here to try it out for a while but haven't done so except on vacation.  I guess the grass is always greener because they absolutely love it here.  Don't get me wrong because I do love my country but living here exposes its seamy underbelly as I'm sure happens in Germany too.

KimberlyButler 57 pts

@Karla yes...some days are awesome here. You meet such open minded people, but somedays I just wanna be human. They also assume my boyfriend takes care of me when I'm more educated and make more money in both countries. It's tough, but we do need to band together...black and Turkish. It's a shame. As we speak I'm being stared at...lol

Karla 19184 pts

 KimberlyButler  LOL, Lawd, girl... well, we can stare right back and we're talking about them anyway, so there!

DarlingNikki69 319 pts

I posted that last thing too soon, darn it, lol. Personally, I do not want to be with anyone that is not in lock step with me on important issues with race being one. Black men have a certain privilge that we black women do not have, and I would take exception with anyone telling me they think something is ok because some other random black person said so. If you are unable to figure out what is offensive, and should not be said to ANYONE then you are not someone that I will communicate with on a regular basis. I'm moving abroad soon, and I am wondering how will I handle these issues when I begin my life abroad. Especially when dealing with people from other areas of the world.

ieishah 833 pts

 DarlingNikki69 Thank you! Your compliments mean a lot to me... I definitely have had a wide range of experiences with "rain beaus" from so many different cultures, and have some knowledge to impart, but there's never a need to be condescending about it. I've made tons of mistakes in dating! Tons! I think people who say they haven't are either lying, or NOT DATING. lol!

 

"If you are unable to figure out what is offensive, and should not be said to ANYONE then you are not someone that I will communicate with on a regular basis."

 

I think your attitude about this is right on point. I'm all for "each one teach one", but you've got to come to me with a basic level of understanding on this. I do see women cave when it comes to this sometimes, and I always pray children won't enter the picture, because THEY are the ones who suffer.

 

YAY on moving abroad! If you're anything like I was, you'll be too busy dealing with all of the other cultural differences, and setting up the details of your daily life (at first) to make race issues your priority. You'll find there's lots of freedom in that, actually. On some level, you're just another foreigner, and you'll be trying to pull your ish together like every other foreigner. Perhaps just with a few extra sets of eyes on you....

DarlingNikki69 319 pts

Ieishsa, I really enjoy your writing. You find away to impart your opinion with facts and antecdotes without coming off as a derisive or condensending. I respect that quality in a writer. You and Tracy are very good at that!

Patricia Kayden 1710 pts

Wow Ieishah, have to admit that Germany sounds a little scary after reading your post.  Seems like Afro Germans have a lot of fighting to do if an obviously derogatory racist term is seen as okay with the White populace.  At least here in the US, the "n" word is not used in polite company and there are no children's stories that use that term at all.

 

Hope things get better in Germany -- especially for the younger generation. 

 

Informative post.

WorldTravelingChic 738 pts

Wow. Ieishah, thanks for this thought-provoking post and all of your clarifications. I had no idea this was going on in the undercurrent while I was there. I was in the south (Munich), where people were either really friendly or just ignored me.

PaigeinPhilly 368 pts

“Neger just means black.”....

 

Uh, if they aleady have a word for the color black...why use this one?....

 

hmmmmm.

SwirlQueen 1067 pts

 I told someone that a kid called me a negerfrau when I was in Germany.  The kid was innocent but his father asked him to say it again so he was sure that I would hear it.  Rolls eyes, whatever.  They told me it was an endearing term.  I kept it moving as I didn't live too far from there.  I was only there because the bus driver purposely passed my stop.  Not too different than what some in the states have experienced.  Another man called schwartz and  he meant it in a bad way that particular night.  I kept walking to find my seat at the Oktoberfest.  I could have made a big deal but why?  See I was there during the Reagan years.  Where is all of this coming from now since they were soooooo in love with Obama?  What in the heck?

ieishah 833 pts

@SwirlQueen Wow. You came to Germany before the wall fell or after??!! People stare like I'm Django riding thru town on a horse in 2013 for no good reason! I can't imagine back then. Yeah, I don't always address racist ransoms either. Depends on my mood. I'm much more concerned with how my partner and I deal with these issues. As for the Obama love, well, lets just say Euros have a love-hate relationship with anything American. For example, they talk so badly about how Americans eat, yet I can't throw a stick without hitting a new burger joint....

Maria Scot 37 pts

Thank you for this engrossing post. This type of problem comes up all the time except when you highlight it you are told to shut up with your political correctness, called an anti- white and overall made to feel like the overly sensitive, crazy one that still believes that racism is omnipresent. This has happened so often that sometimes you actually start to believe it. I am not taking it anymore.

ieishah 833 pts

 Maria Scot First, I can't be with someone I can't talk race with. But that's me. Anyone who feels like I'm overly sensitive has no chance with me. There've been times I've experienced pretty explicit racism in the presence of a BF, and I'll ignore it (I don't ALWAYS feel like addressing it, especially when the aggressor seems particularly low in IQ points), and my SO will say something! That's the guy I need. Indeed, the one I was lucky enough to find. They ARE out there.

 

On the other hand, practice taking some of your feelings out of it when expressing yourself on racial issues. The more even, logical, and (I said this below) humorously you can approach something, the more likely it is people will want to listen. So you get to have your feelings and beliefs (as everyone should), you just express them in a more palatable manner. All comes with practice.

heyimPearlilikefries 2135 pts

Ohh my goodness this is an interesting post!

 

Uhm, Germans.. are they unaware that thy have an extremely racist past? Or just the Jews? 

ieishah 833 pts

 heyimPearlilikefries Here's the thing: there is one N-word even more taboo, more unseemly than neger. That's Nazism. Apparently, the slaughter of millions based on ethnicity/religion doesn't count as racism, and even if it did, you can't really say Nazi in polite company, so...

heyimPearlilikefries 2135 pts

 ieishah ..... I don't know what to say. That's like saying the word slavemaster or KKK is a bad word... the ones who did the most harm! Well it is what it is... if they can't say THAT then why say neger? Is the word that important? Obviously. 

Patricia Kayden 1710 pts

 heyimPearlilikefries That's what I was going to ask.  I would think that a country which is responsible for the murder of millions of Jews, Gypsies, etc., would be more racially sensitive, but I guess not.

heyimPearlilikefries 2135 pts

 Patricia Kayden  It's really blowing my mind right now. 

ieishah 833 pts

 heyimPearlilikefries  Patricia Kayden +1!!

q____q 7 pts

 Patricia Kayden  heyimPearlilikefries

 

I'm afraid we (Germans) really didn't learn anything at all from history. There's lots of racism everywhere and you often read of surveys in which a high percentage of Germans (even people who don't consider themselves openly as neo-nazis) have staggering racist views.

 

One of the most recent developments on this was the NSU, a group of neo-nazis who for years murdered people with Turkish and other emigrant backgrounds all over Germany and the German police and intelligence for years and years denied even the possibility that these murders could have a racist background (though of course the victims' relatives have brought this up again and again and went on rallies and protests etc.). It has been a huge scandal at first when these people finally were caught (neo-nazi terrorism in Germany!) and there has been talk about racist/neo-nazi mindsets in German intelligence services but these issues are completely ignored by the government (there even have been papers on the subject that German intelligence with their confidential informants are largely funding neo-nazi activity/structures in Germany (the guy who founded the German KKK was an ex-confidential informant and is now the KKK-„specialist“ for a German secret service and is of course getting money from them which he will probably use for KKK activities)).

ieishah 833 pts

 q____q  O_O  The demographics here are changing so dramatically...half of all Germans in Hamburg for instance, have at least 1 parent of "foreign background". What's it going to take for people to get serious about tackling nazism at its root? What are they gonna do, target half the population?  

q____q 7 pts

 ieishah  q____q That is a really interesting question on which I don't really have an answer, so I'm just going to speculate:

 

I think that lots of white Germans still have almost no "real" contact with non-white Germans or emigrants. Sure, they see them in the streets (and of course they remember the few who where violent or threatening more then all the friendly ones that just passed by) and they buy their döners and falafels from them but I think not so many actually have friends with an "emigration background" as it is PC to say in Germany.

 

This will (have to) change in the future just because of the numbers you stated and my hope is that once POC are not only seen as "other" but some of them are actually your friends, your racist believes will die out. If you ever had them because I'm afraid all this will probably take a looong time. Which doesn't mean we just have to sit on our asses and wait of course, there things that need to happen NOW, like we need to stop the ghettoization and all the "only emigrants" and "no-emigrants"-schools (not on purpose of course it just so happens that in this neighborhood there are only emigrants and in the other there are only rich white kids) and employers only hiring Germans so lots and lots of well-educated German Turks are emigrating back to Turkey after uni because the can't get a job etc..

 

 Generally my hopes are in the young people, I don't really see how the old, backwards people (from the small villages = East Germany) are ever going to change.

I'm from Sweden and we have the same word here, basically, "neger" is like the equivalent of "Negro" but slightly closer to "Nigger" since it's used as a derogatory word meant to hurt you.

I've grown up with kids and adults (in the 90s when it was a lot more common) calling me "Neger" this and "Neger" that. They come up with the same stupid excuse that it's "just a word that means black" (which is BS), there is a word for black, it's "svart". And if "Neger" only meant black, we would call black objects "neger", but we never have because it doesn't just mean black. It means black, ignorant,inferior, being, as in human being.

 

Unfortunately, because we don't teach slavery in our schools, and don't even have African history taught at all, it's hard for them to feel sympathetic or feel any empathy towards black struggles, simply because they don't know.

We are taught about the jewish holocaust from the 3rd grade!! And the holocaust has its own day/week or month every year.

 

The worst part is when they say "Well my black guy friend says it's okay to say the N word, he says it's not a big deal". I find that a lot of black males have more tolerance for it and will excuse it and sometimes even welcome it! This makes it hard for white people to care about racism that affects us.

Ignorance is bliss, but it can harm you in a way that is frustrating. You want understanding, but when it's "no big deal", how can you convince people it's important? Fortunately, more people are opening up and talking about it, so that's good.

But it will really be us black women who will do most work because black males are just gone. They don't even care about racism anymore. That's just what I've noticed and it's actually kind of scary.

I'm not saying you should be a "soldier" and fight racism because that's impossible, i'm talking about smaller things and conversations you should have with your white friends and your romantic partner.

 

Sorry for the long post!

ieishah 833 pts

 @Rodarte Sweden! Land of the FGM cake, right?? I find that talking race in the Nordic countries is especially difficult, because they "weren't really involved in slavery and colonialism", and any involvement they did have was "late and light".  For instance, all those Greenlanders drinking themselves to death in isolated communities in Denmark, well, that's not as bad as what's happening in Africa/the Caribbean, etc...

 

"The worst part is when they say "Well my black guy friend says it's okay to say the N word, he says it's not a big deal". I find that a lot of black males have more tolerance for it and will excuse it and sometimes even welcome it! This makes it hard for white people to care about racism that affects us. [...]  But it will really be us black women who will do most work because black males are just gone."

 

Now this is VERY interesting. I love this comment, partially because I don't even really know how to respond yet... It sounds about right, though. I think what you're talking about here is when black men use MALE PRIVILEGE to mitigate the affects racism has on their individual lives. They back slap and locker-roon-talk their way into some semblance of acceptance and equality, even trading privileges ("I'll let you use the n-word without repercussion, and you otherwise treat me like one of the club, and we'll call it even!).

 

"I'm not saying you should be a "soldier" and fight racism because that's impossible, i'm talking about smaller things and conversations you should have with your white friends and your romantic partner."

 

Yes! I'd say always see how you can come at it from a loving, or humorous place. I've gotten pretty good at diffusing situations, or just expressing my discomfort at, say, staring, by making a joke. People really don't realize how crazy they come off sometimes, by either words or actions, and I consider it a public service to make them aware. In a gentle way, of course. ;-)

 

Thank you for understanding and putting my feelings into words much better than I ever could! One thing I will say about Sweden is, no one will shout the N word at you, or harass you in the streets or even stare all that much. In a small town, yes, maybe they will stare a little, but not in a hostile way. Also, street harassment in general doesn't happen here! Which is one thing women notice when they come here, especially American women lol ieishah

 

When I read the comments from you German black women I was horrified because I didn't think it was that bad in Germany, in fact, I thought it was more tolerant than Sweden! I'm pretty sure due to numbers there are more IR relationships there between black and white people, but I thought it was more open and welcoming towards it! When someone says they have been literally shouted at and called the N word....my God, that would make me so upset if that happened to me because it never has! Not since 1995 and that was in a small town where I grew up but even they (well, two kids who  I grew up with in school) apologized once we grew up lol I was kid back then.

But yes, Swedes are so unaware of racism and disconnected, they think we are sensitive when we bring it up, but I will say this, liberals here are VERY liberal. The liberal Swedes are the ones who are very anti-racist and very pro-immigrant, and pro-gay. They are the ones who will discuss "negerbollar" (a sort of cookie-ball thing) and say how unacceptable it is to call it the N word, so in that way some liberal Swedes are good because they are willing to learn.

 

And what you said about black males is so interesting! That is exactly what it is! It is an exchange of goods.

 They just want to fit in but it's disturbing. I try not to be around them if I can. It just makes me feel pity for them and that is energy I am not willing to give, it's enough watching the news!

 

Bren82 1395 pts

My husband and I talk about the subject from time to time. One thing that I will definitely say is that when in an IR, it is very important to be sure about your feelings towards your partner because there will come a time when some ignorant person will decide that you need to hear their opinion.

ieishah 833 pts

 Bren82 !!!!! This is great advice. I had a black man (gay, and dating a white German) try to convince me that maybe my BF (whom he's never met) has a black girl fetish. If you're weak minded, people will try to use race to tie you into knots. 

q____q 7 pts

 oekmama really nice site, thanks for the tip!

oekmama 1047 pts

There are sooo many interesting points in this post. First off, I'm going to throw into the discussion what my husband says: Basically that people here in Germany do not 'get it' that this word is related to the N-word and that it is derogatory. Many people here, he says, have no idea that this word has ANY negative connotation and have more problems using the word 'schwarz' because it does have negative connotations to them but not to us (me and other folks of African descent living in Germany).

 

We've talked a lot about race before and in the first few years of marriage. His stance is 'get rid of those words, end of discussion'. And for him, racists are idiots and a**h*les, and will not be tolerated. So, when I signed our boys up for karate, he was like, 'Yeah, good. So they won't have to put up with any guff later on.'

 

There is a different racial understanding over here, clearly, and Germans who would not identify as neo-nazi have a hard time grasping that some things they say or do might actually be discriminatory. And so they're fighting like heck now to try to protect a word that they want to be innocent. 

 

Also, I totally get what that German dad was trying to say with 'my kids are German like me.' He believes his Germanness will somehow protect those kids from any ugliness - because all that ugliness is associated with being an immigrant, not being able to speak german properly, or having a non-german-looking name. Um, yeah, maybe it'll protect that kid to a certain extent... but he's already savvy to the differences.

... I gotta get lunch on the table, so I will post now and come back later...

ieishah 833 pts

 oekmama "Basically that people here in Germany do not 'get it' that this word is related to the N-word and that it is derogatory. Many people here, he says, have no idea that this word has ANY negative connotation and have more problems using the word 'schwarz' because it does have negative connotations to them but not to us (me and other folks of African descent living in Germany)."

 

I first came to Germany about 10 years ago with a big diverse group of dancers. As we were leaving a McDonald's late of night, a skinhead (from a safe distance, of course) yelled out, "Negers!!", and spat. They KNOW that word is a loaded gun. Those neo nazis etc. are not isolated from society. They are the brothers, cousins, and homies of regular German folk everywhere. It's not a secret that that word is a weapon. I don't accept that "they don't get it" anymore. Especially after THEIR OWN SONS are telling them, "that word hurts me". Like you said, they "want" that word to be innocent. The question now is, why??

Karla 19184 pts

My sister has been married twice, to two German men.  She has lived in Germany for 22 years, speaks German fluently, works at a German company and has three daughters (one with the ex and two with her current husband).  Her oldest daughter is now 19 and we (my niece and I) have had conversations about this.  These girls have gone to German schools and have endured different forms of racism from my youngest niece and her Turkish friend being physically and verbally attacked by German boys (and holding her own with her scrappy self) to my middle niece who, when they were studying American history and slavery, was teased by German boys about her "Tar baby" ancestors (she fired back with "I'm proud of my American ancestors; at least they didn't gas other people because of their religion.  And, yes, I get the irony of that but I'm only half German.") to my oldest niece who was called "zebra" as a child, denied entrance into her father's new girlfriend's house because she was a "schwarze neger" and, just recently, broke up with her boyfriend because he told her he was making a sacrifice dating her.  His Neo-Nazi men friends were starting to question him about his relationship with her.  It cut her deeply and, frankly, I truly considered going to Germany and hunting him down to rip his weak heart out.

 

I've asked my BIL about all of this and he said he doesn't have an answer as to why Germans are so blindingly stupid about racism.  My sister is ticked off at this development but her husband just shrugged and said it was just a group of idiots.  When she asked his family, they were evasive.  I asked her if she and her husband(s) discussed racism before getting married and she said no.  Her ex didn't see the problem with "neger" but her current one does and he hates it because he deeply loves his wife and his kids.  It's very interesting, to be sure (and I say "interesting" like Mr. Spock).  My sister doesn't discuss racism with her daughters but I do because they ask me.  Sometimes, it's difficult because I just want to rage (when my oldest niece's father just accepted his girlfriend's rebuff of his daughter based on her parentage, I wanted to b**ch slap both of them so hard!) but I try to discuss the issue calmly.  My sister has a tendency to ignore what happening because she said her little world is fine.  I'm not sure that's the answer, though.

oekmama 1047 pts

 Karla Well, I know what your sister means. In one respect, if you keep looking out for racism, or thinking about it 24-7, you can't live in Germany - every little thing will get to you: from the fact that there are very few black people on TV, and on and on. Even between explicit incidents. 

My heart bleeds for your nieces, and cheers that they fight back.

Your experiences trying to engage in dialogue only confirm a few ideas that I've had - that racism as a topic that is very uncomfortable - folks would rather not discuss it, because they are not sure what they think you want to hear. So they'd rather get off that topic with a quickness. What I find is that they pour the whole of their sensitivity into antisemitism.

So, the same folks who allow someone to come on after prime time news wearing blackface to protect the N-word, will chop you down at the knees if they even consider you halfways close to saying something against Jewish people.

 

Karla 19184 pts

 oekmama Not that it's excusable but, considering their history, I can see why they will scream bloody murder at any hint of antisemitism.  When there's film, photographs, diaries and the Nuremberg trials documenting this particular stain on German history, you can bet they'll do whatever they can to convince people that the new Germany is nowhere near this.  Now, it's also been documented that "Ausländers" are hassled but I'm guessing because these incidents are random, no one thinks anymore of them.

 

In my sister's family, she's the only "Ausländer" since her children were born in Germany and to one German parent and yet, sometimes, they are treated as if they aren't native to Germany.  I also have four cousins who were born and raised in Germany (my uncle was married to a German lady and chose to live in Germany).  They live in what used to be East Germany and my cousin Norma says the racism is really bad there.  My cousins love to discuss it and maybe that's because they're older and angry that nothing has changed from their childhood.  Two of the four cousins graduated from German universities, one with a Bachelors and one with a Masters.  Both said those degrees were hard earned and not because they weren't smart.

 

Both my cousins and my nieces have so many options open to them because they are dual citizens.  But, for now, they choose to stay.  Funnily enough, my BIL wants to live in the United States.

ieishah 833 pts

 Karla "My sister has a tendency to ignore what happening because she said her little world is fine.  I'm not sure that's the answer, though."

It's not the answer. Luckily, your nieces know avoidance isn't going to cut it, and they at least have someone to talk to about it. 

 

"my youngest niece and her Turkish friend being physically and verbally attacked by German boys (and holding her own with her scrappy self)"

This is disgusting. I'd want to waterboard a kid over this. But also the visual of your niece 'holding her own' heartens me. Like I said in the article, this next generation will not take any sh*t. You give that girl a big hug from me!

 

 oekmama "they'd rather get off that topic with a quickness. What I find is that they pour the whole of their sensitivity into antisemitism."

 

Yeah, I feel like the focus on it is a way of avoiding the race/ethnicity problems of modern Germany. It's like that Hitchcock thing wherein one admits to one crime, to avoid discussion about another. It's the "willful naiveté" of white Europeans that Baldwin writes about in "Stranger in the Village", but an even more focused sort.

 

 

Karla 19184 pts

 ieishah  oekmama Yes, I was proud of my youngest niece as well; she was 8 years old when this happened.  She was walking home from school with her two friends, one of whom is Turkish.  Three boys jump out of the bushes and proceeded to verbally unleash racial epithets, particularly directed at her Turkish friend but some at her.  One of the boys got bold and socked the Turkish girl in the stomach.  My niece said she doesn't remember what happened next very well but her Turkish friend said her little fists started flying with accuracy and she got two of the boys down; the other boy ran away.  She sat on one and told her friends to go and get a grown-up.  They weren't far from school so a teacher appeared on the scene.  My niece is a petite girl, tiny for her age.  We never knew she had the spirit of a warrior until this happened.  My sister and her husband, later, approached the parents of the boy she sat on and told them they didn't appreciate what had happened.  Apparently, the boy's mother thought my niece was some big, Black tough girl who picked the fight from the way he described her.  When they saw my niece, they were mortified.  My sister was a bit shocked because she had never taught the girls to defend themselves nor did she expect anything like this to happen but I'm mystified as to how she thought this since the other two had their share of issues.

ieishah 833 pts

 Karla  "We never knew she had the spirit of a warrior until this happened." 

 

Any chance she's got a bit of auntie in her??

Karla 19184 pts

 ieishah LOL, you know it!

hummingbird78 50 pts

i love reading your posts, ieishah! as i have mentioned before, my partner is german, but we live in the South (well, i’m abroad right now). even though i know that our politics are the same, sometimes i find myself talking in a very measured way about race to explain to him why i feel that something is offensive. let me just say that it is increasingly rare for a racial incident to happen in our faces; the South is far more progressive than it used to be before i moved away for grad school. when he doesn’t notice the *covert* ish that we black folks/people of color have been groomed to uncover and acknowledge, i occasionally point them out. i say "occasionally" because frankly, it is exhausting to try to explain the idiocy of others...i'd rather stay in my happy place. :) when i address something that he might not have noticed, i have to remain extra-mindful that it’s not just his whiteness that may make him less-aware, but nationality also plays a big role. racism is everywhere, but often acted out differently from country to country. we’re currently looking for our first home and had been considering an area that is rather rural and not very diverse, which increased my spidey-senses, but i remained open-minded. a bw/bm couple that we’re friends with just moved there and the wife was called a “n” in neighborhood traffic just a few months after they purchased their house. when i told honey about it, he promptly removed that area from the list without me making a demand. if he had said, “oh, that was a fluke. it was probably a random redneck. you’re being too dramatic,” we would have had a serious problem! major differences in racial politics would be a definite deal breaker for me.

 

ieishah 833 pts

 hummingbird78 "a bw/bm couple that we’re friends with just moved there and the wife was called a “n” in neighborhood traffic just a few months after they purchased their house. when i told honey about it, he promptly removed that area from the list without me making a demand. if he had said, “oh, that was a fluke. it was probably a random redneck. you’re being too dramatic,” we would have had a serious problem!"

 

HE'S GOLDEN! Nothing sexier than when they GET it!! NOTHING!

So MnM12 205 pts

“Do you see now why some white guys wouldn’t like their girlfriend greeting every black man they see in the street? It could be misinterpreted.”

Is it really to do with race, or ones flirtatious abilities. I think any guy wouldnt want his girl greeting any male stranger like that on the streets.

Also this scenario screamsof if this girl is a NBAB because if she could have a black man she would run to him as fast as she can. She is in a majority white population so there and waiting for her GBM to come!

Yes in some European countries they have antiquated words for discribing black people and it takes someone from outside those countries to point out the difference, but to actually tell someont to relax on those issues when its sensitive is very inappropriate.

oekmama 1047 pts

 So MnM12 ..."but to actually tell someont to relax on those issues when its sensitive is very inappropriate."

 

This happens ALL the time in Germany. Their defence is: You are being too sensitive. Now, a lot of Afro-Germans, especially those working in media circles, are raising exactly THIS point.

Maria Scot 37 pts

 oekmama  So MnM12 Its so frustrating how people seem to sweep these kinds of situations under the carpet. Wouldn't it be better to just face it head on, sort out any incomprehension and move on. Whats even more baffling is that Afro- Germans are more willing to do it and since its an issue affecting them, then surely they should be allowed to bring it up!