This one is serious, so no silly sound effects. This is a real note, for a real person, so I want to be sensitive to how she might be feeling. It’s one thing to face rejection because of skin color, but it’s a whole other thing for folks to hide behind “religion to justify bigotry. In this video, I give the writer some tips on how to deal with it, identify red flags and how to talk to her mate about the situation. We go into a lot of details about these situations in “Swirling,” but I’ll share just a little bit here:
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“Swirling” Chapter Excerpt: “What Do I Do If My Partner’s Parents Think Our Interracial Relationship is a Sin?”
This one is serious, so no silly sound effects. This is a real note, for a real person, so I want to be sensitive to how she might be feeling. It’s one thing to face rejection because of skin color, but it’s a whole other thing for folks to hide behind “religion to justify bigotry. In this video, I give the writer some tips on how to deal with it, identify red flags and how to talk to her mate about the situation. We go into a lot of details about these situations in “Swirling,” but I’ll share just a little bit here:
SirLoinDeBeef
When my daughter married up with her 1st husband, she converted to his church ... something about an 'Assembly of' Diety - He (husband) demanded that I convert too, quoting Scripture - I said no - from that moment, suddenly I became an Agent of Satan.
So my granddaughter, when born and then raised to age 15, has no contact with me and only knows me as the self-same 'agent' - I'm never called, nor written to, nor are my birthday and holiday presents acknowledged.
But, now that my daughter has divorced and re-married, it's, "Oh, Dad, that's all in the past, so let's just forget about it" - except that the custody arrangement still has ex-husband in charge for 5 days a week ... I never get to speak to or see my granddaughter ... and I'm still an Agent-of-Satan.
I think I'll go to Starbucks, sometime this summer, and have a discussion about contemporary hypocritical Christianity with the Anti-Christ ... and I oughta get my Agent card renewed ...
MissFLondon
SirLoinDeBeef
Sorry but I blame your daughter. Isn't honour thy parents in the bible? She over extended herself for a man who had problems and now she has a daughter who has had her husband's crazy mindset thrust upon her and who is legally obliged to spend more time with him than her.
Asking her to convert is one thing; asking you to convert is actually disrespectful. The moment she allowed for the ensuing estrangement to take place, she lost her hand and any outside support, she's even lucky she found the goo sense to divorce him. Family alienation is one of the first things that cult members force their recruits to do.
These pangs never go away, you are always in good humour and like me will tend to laugh away disdain. I know that she wishes to forget it all, but it's her refusal to be confrontational that got her into the last marriage.
At some point though, the two of you are going to have to hash it out over a bottle of gin, you can't take familial disloyalty lightly, especially 15 years worth.
Morenika
Hello Christelyn,
Well said... I hope that she will be brave and stick it out with her boyfriend. I honestly wonder how my great grandparents dealt with their families being in an inter-racial relationship. He leaving his first wife who was a French Woman and Caucasian, she being a single black woman with a black child to raise. That is what makes life interesting. Man + Woman = Child of any race or culture....
Morenika
Christelyn Hello .... I think about the story and think wow..... My Mother has been reaching out to her caucasian 1st cousins. When I get to my parents home in Las Vegas, I will send you the family photo... It is all siblings from both of each great grandparents marriage, children with their past spouses and their seven together. LOL..
YoFabulous
I didn't read all of the comments here, but since I've had this conversation with my mom and with my old pastor eons ago, the argument that interracial couples are "unequally yoked" is being taken out of context. We are instructed to not to marry people of different faiths, lest we be led astray. It has absolutely nothing to do with the race of your spouse.
Christians believe that we are under a new covenant with God under Christ Jesus so men are to be husbands to one wife only.
Shulamit
This is sad and I can say a lot but I won't. This is such a personal choice and situation. Personally, I would not marry someone in this situation. I was engaged when I was 21 to a guy from Idaho and his family had major issues with my being black and he wanted us to move there after marriage. Twin Falls? Really? I decided to back out. It was a battle that I did not want to fight, not even for love.
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zipporah
thats SO SAD...Since i'm from CA, i've NEVER been to an 'all white' church, there have been at least SOME latin types in it.
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Shulamit
Matrix12 don't even get me started... I am staying mum... mum I say..
Law Wanxi
Shulamit
Twin Falls, the gateway to Pocatello? OMG, that's over a hundred miles from a big city and then, that big city is just .... Boise. Well, you would have never lacked for potatoes, LOL.
You didn't just dodge a bullet on that one, you dodged all the six-barrel output of a PHALANX!
Shulamit
Law Wanxi bwahahahaahaha.. yeah I went with my gut on that one :-)
purplemoonflower123
My close friend from college (WW) went through heck when she married her husband (BM). She grew up Mormon and her parents used religion to say that her marrying her husband was a sin and an "abomination". They used to get into "biblical battles" where her parents would quote scripture and tell her that her relationship was wrong and sinful. It was crazy! Her parents "disowned" her when she married her husband. She kept in touch with a couple of her sisters, but her brothers and her parents refused to talk to her. I think, to this day (15 years later), she hasn't had any contact with her parents. I feel bad for her kids, because they will never know their grandparents. Her husband's family is great, so they have that support. BTW, I have issues with organized religion, especially when it comes to this issue. We hope that the next generation will be better, but I have seen examples of racism and prejudice that makes me SMH in disgust. We can only teach and hope for the best.
zipporah
Actually, in the Mormon church, interracial dating or marriage is a SIN. i THINK they have changed their 'doctrine' since 1978 and allowed blacks in ALL of their church lke the sister who is the mayor of a small Utah town. Joseph Smith believed in POLYGAMY and also in 'pre-existence" in when the soul exists outside of heaven, and then you are born. If you were born with a BLACK SKIN. You couldnt go into a certain part of their church; you were CURSED..as a said before. If you talk to a Mormon missionary today, they know nothing about this belief. Mormons were nice to blacks but didnt want them into the family because of the 'sin of cain'. this belief also affected the churches where many anglo whites went to, and would quote Gen 9:27-29 to back it up. Moses sister got leprosy because he married Zipporah and she was racist about it
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zipporah
It's about beliefs NOT ETHNICITY...Ruth and Boaz even had different ethnicities. Ruth became a believer.
Law Wanxi
People pick and choose the Bible parts they want to use. If someone wants to cite the Bible as a source for banning IR marriage or relationships, I'd wonder whether they were themselves following all of the entire text for the rest of their lives. Do they eat meat not from animals that do not attack, does all their fish have scales, all the red meat come from split-hoof cud-chewers?
One bite of lobster or catfish and their whole doctrine is suspect.
FriendsofJay
A word for a future reality: when the grandchildren are born, mom and dad will almost certainly come around. I have seen racist people in my own redneck community soften when grandchildren are born. Its natural when a grandparent knows that a part of them is in that child. Children will be the great uniters of race in this country. Fifty years from now, maybe sooner, blogs like Christelyn's won't be needed because black and white couples will be a normal sight to the average American-----and isn't that what we're all working for.
zipporah
I've heard the BEST PART of having children is having GRANDCHILDREN (if you dont have to raise them)...many redneck parents ALWAYS come around, i've seen it myself
Grace80
A sin? what are you dating? A Boer? eish.
oekmama
The parents clearly do not consider their son 'qualified' to make his own life decisions. So he can't reason with them. Here's the last chance shot: They should talk to the parents' pastor. Now if the pastor cannot counsel them and get them to open their hearts, then they should wash their hands of them.
Now if the pastor is of the same belief, then he can console the parents when their son and girlfriend leave them behind.
Best of luck to you.
mspbody
I have taken this from another source to demonstrate how people, any people, use "religion" to justify what they believe. There is most often no hope to sway the feelings of this type of person, and truly, if she is seeking happiness, she should let it go unless he is willing to walk away from his family.
The Bible has been used to support, promote and act upon some pretty un-Christian things: slavery, holocaust, segregation, subjugation of women, apartheid, the Spanish Inquisition, domestic violence, all sorts of exploitation and the list could go on and on.
It not only promotes marriage between a man and a woman, but it insist that that marriage be within the same faith. Not only should a wife be subordinate (Ephesians 5:22), but she should also prove her virginity... lest she be stoned (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). Oh, and the whole thing would probably be much better if it were arranged (Genesis 24:37-38). If a woman's husband dies and she hasn't had a son, she must marry his brother and have intercourse with him until she has a son (Mark 12:18-27). Sometimes, biblically wives are good, but concubines are better. Many of the “men of God” were not only married, but at least three of them had more than one concubine (Abraham, Caleb, Solomon) and they remained “men of God.”
(See article I took this from here:http://www.thegodarticle.com/7/post/2011/10/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing.html)
zipporah
It was actuallyl the LORD JESUS CHRIST who made marriage between one man and one woman only...since he is the 'bridegroom' everything doesnt matter. and who wants to be sharing a man. GOD really didnt like these men having more than one, and Jacob only wanted Rachel, but to get her, he had to get 3 other women---Sarah TOLD Abraham to go into Hagar. Abraham didnt do it on his own
valeriesmith15
@ MissFLondon, that problem will always come up and she probably needs another man whose family will love her. It is a whole way of thinking, what do you deserve?, is this love worth it. Sometimes, we have to cut ourselves off from our families, because although we may try to resolve their issue. If it cannot be resoloved, then break away from them and break the cycle of evil, bigotry and racism. In the Psalm 27:10
When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up. Meaning, God will bring representatives who will act as a mother figure. Recently a young man and his fiancee won over £46 million on the lottery (Euromillions) and his mother didn't speak to him for seven years, after winning, he still hasn't spoken to her and he is at peace, she is very bitter every minute writing to the papers. Another man hasn't spoken to his mother for 29 years, his mother didn't like his wife, both married people were white, he said that he has the most wonderful mother-in-law he could every wish for.
valeriesmith15
Moses and Zipporah, Joseph and his Egyptian wife, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, King Solomon was also married to black woman, (Songs of Songs 1:5 I am black but comely, black, but good-looking). He was also married to an Egyptian princess. Ruth and Baoz, Esther and her husband, the King, Timothy, he was mixed race Jewish mother and Greek father. Other important black poeple in the bible was Joseph of Arimathea, he was a rich black Jew, who washed and prepared Jesus's body. The Ethopian accountant who came from the court of Queen Candice, but he was very upset, when he discovered that Jesus was already executed, he was bapisted by Phillip. Simon the Niger, he was another rich black man who with his family, wife and two sons, supported Paul, with the gospel.
The Ethopian army officer who reported the death of King David's son. The Ethopian who told David where his wife was taken, when he and his 400 men had their wives and children taken away from them.
Book of Zephaniah attributes its authorship to “Zephaniah son of Cushi son of Gedaliah son of Amariah son of Hezekiah, in the days of King Josiah son of Amon of Judah”. The name Cushi, Zephaniah’s father, means ‘Ethiopian’.
People like to use the bible, to jusify their evil and racism, God does not like people abuse his word, because it is his reputation and he has a way of dealing with them. He doesn't care who you marry as long you are equally yoked.
MissFLondon
valeriesmith15
Thank you!!!! I believe that after the west chose to forget that Jesus was a Jew, they also chose to Europeanize the rest of the Bible.
I think people like to forget that the BIBLE had so few Europeans and was not set in Europe??? - unless you wish to count Pontious Pilate and other oppressors?
Interracial marriage was no big deal in the bible. In fact, it seems to have been encouraged as a way to bring people closer to your own god.
People will read a book and see what they want.
zipporah
AMEN
MissFLondon
I'm sorry, but no.
I can concede that my upbringing has something to do with this - I'm always going to be an African - You don't marry the man, you marry his family.
While you can tolerate discomfort and unenlightened racial politics (with a view to educating these people further down the line) They need to be good and decent people to begin with, then you have good raw material to work with.
Religious bigotry does not go away - EVER
She needs to find another man and realise that if she were to go ahead with this relationship it will cause her problems and will not be worth it in the long run. If they think that you are an abomination, what do you suppose that they will think of your offspring?? What if something were to happen to this woman and her children would be left with such people.
Please, politic correctness aside, she must walk away, it's not just about race, it's also about value and hers has been tarnished as far as his family is concerned. Yes, people within European culture tend to be more able to stand up to their family, as theirs tends to be a more straight forward relationship, but time spent defending a woman can be put to better use simply being with her.
It's a pity for him, but she needs to move on. She will no doubt find someone who's family and upbringing has not associated her skin colouring with hell fire.
Christelyn
moderator
MissFLondon That's because you don't necessarily have a Westernized view. I don't think you dump people for the "sin" of their parents. That's not fair, and in and of itself, bigoted.
MissFLondon
Christelyn
It's not bigotry if their slander is harming her. They have insulted her and she doesn't need to stick around for further insults.
arlette81
MissFLondon
i agree with you. one thing that i can never do is marry into a family who sees me as less than. i always think of the future. if his family were racists i doubt that i would ever want my kids around them ever, even if they changed a little. thats why i think getting to know his family before it gets too serious is always important.
MissFLondon
arlette81
It's vital, who needs the heartache. Staying with him out of principle is foolish, to whom exactly are you proving a point??
She can use that energy and effort to find someone with this level of baggage.
I'm not saying that expect a pat on the back, but if I'm gifting someone with grandchildren, they had better be grateful!!
mspbody
MissFLondon I agree with you that for the most part, religious bigotry does not go away. Now, whether or not she chooses to stay in a relationship with him is something she needs to weigh carefully. Later, will he be estranged from his family and resent her? Is he willing to be with her and turn his back on them?
And quite frankly, I do not think your very pragmatic viewpoint is "non-Western"...for the record.
Toni_M
mspbody MissFLondon I don't know about "pragmatic", I say it's dripping with fear of rejection. Are you gonna drop every relationship because there's resistance in the family? What's the point in connecting to someone and assuming it means you have to throw in the towel because momma and papa don't approve for whatever reason, religious or otherwise?
You may never find yourself diving into a completely comfortable and perfect relationship where EVERYONE approves. But I believe that there should only ever be two people in a relationship leading to marriage. Cultures may dictate otherwise, and THAT is when it becomes a problem. If you are marrying into a culture where you can realistically expect to not be separate from a problematic family situation, it's definitely something to step back from, but that's when you need to know the person you are getting involved with. And this is why we V-E-T. If a man is willing to tell the people he loves most in the world to "shut the hell up, I love this woman and we are getting married whether you like it or not", that man is a keeper. You would be a fool if you threw such a person away because of what his family thought.
The only worry is if you have a man who is weak and ruled by his family and friends and their opinion. If that's the case, I say definitely, back off.
But remember, not every person is religious, even if they come from a religious background. How would you justify dumping an atheist because his religious family didn't approve?
It can be complicated, but I maintain that nothing in life worthwhile is easy, and if you're going to run away from every potential disappointment more so than an actual disappointment, prepare to be running for a long long time. This is not to say rush into anything. On the contrary, think long and hard about the situation you find yourself in. And decide whether or not you're dodging a bullet, or giving into fear that is not necessarily justified, and potentially cheating yourself out of a quality mate.
Christelyn
moderator
Toni_M mspbody MissFLondon That unfortunately, is where most of this resistance comes from instead of admitting they are afraid of rejection, they would rather cut it off before it's even a possibility.
ASwirlGirl
Christelyn Toni_M mspbody MissFLondon True, which is why Angela also needs to take a long, hard look at *herself* to determine if *she* is strong enough to stand up to this type of resistance. What's the point of her Rainbeau being willing to stand up to his family if she's going to constantly feel terrified or intimidated by his family? That strength of character and intestinal fortitude works both ways.
Also, if the parents on the Rainbeau's side want nothing to do with her or her children, then so be it. She still has her side of the family.
MissFLondon
ASwirlGirl Christelyn Toni_M mspbody
Let's make it clear ladies, this isn't a disapproval, his parents are not upset about him dating a black woman. They think it's a SIN!!! religious disapproval is not the same as racial disapproval; a racist can be made to see you half way.
Toni_M, This isn't just a run of the mill bump in the road of interracial dating. This isn't fear of rejection talking, it's the knowledge of the road ahead for this woman and the fact that she could have so much more elsewhere.
Self preservation is the most important thing that a woman needs to understand. It is a ruthless beast, but important.
I'm merely saying the same thing that we all say when we have a friend who picks up a man from a troublesome background. It really is not his fault, but that doesn't change the situation she in?
When we hear black women sob about how we need to stay with brothers because boo hoo, they have been cut down by society and need help, we shake our heads. Similarly, this woman is not running a charity with her heart or body; whether or not it's fair on him is frankly immaterial. Men consider themselves and their own interests first an foremost, with great success, we have to start doing this ourselves!!!
As Black Women in America, a lot of you have mentioned how you stopped dating within the black community due to the strain, the thankless nature of it and the fact that you were not valued. In short we have all mentioned how black women will go where they are not wanted and stay there and labour and toil there. So having left the frying pan, this woman seems to have fallen into the fire??
I'm not saying that every relationship should be easy, but this woman is clearly disturbed by what she has experienced. This thing will slowly eat away at her and him.
And Mspbody has raised a great point; estrangement from family can lead to resentment. Going further does this woman suppose that she can be this man's mother and father? if not it's going to get bumpy.
I have seen many mixed marriages, and many marriages that were not approved of and what I understand is that no man is an Island. In the rare cases where the relationship is working and they have total disapproval, the two parties have completely cut off those who don't approve, have moved away from them and have committed to each other for life.
If she thinks this is the love of her life and she can't live without him, she needs to figure out where the relationship is going. If he's just a boyfriend, dealing with this is just ridiculous.
Christelyn, very recently, you posted the most precious picture of your children with their grandparents, the woman who wrote in can also have that if only she goes where she's wanted. We all read and loved your squirm inducing account of the first meeting with prospective in-laws, so we know it's not been easy getting to that point. But even then, they were not declaring you an abomination. The writer sounds young; she can still try to get what you have.
If she's writing to a stranger to gain perspective on a situation, she probably hasn't the spirit for this particular battle.
I still say she should RUN!!
Toni_M
There are interracial relationships in the Bible, which as usual goes to show how many holier than thou people who use it to justify their bigotry and cruelty either have never actually read it, or only cherry-pick certain passages than can be twisted to justify their un-Christian behavior.
Definitely not your mama’s relationship book…
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Is she in a 'relationship' since thats all ive heard..LIVING TOGETHER without the BENEFIT of marriage is a SIN...he needs marry her, or she needs to leave
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