The Black Women’s ‘Blacklash’: Why SO MANY hating on my marriage?

@Sandra77
So innocent children should pay for the views of judgmental adults such as yourself?
@ Neecy
Calling innocent children bastards is as low as one can go
And I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical that sex outside of marriage is OK, but having children is not?? You all can't be serious.
And since when is being single a bad thing? How insulting. All of you need to get over yourselves.

Mrs. Christelyn Karazin:

I have to give you props for allowing the trolls to have their day on your blog. I'm too lazy to have a blog, but such folks would not be allowed to trifle with me if I had one.

Nothing they said changes my mind that NWNW is needed for the Black community (or what fronts as the Black community). It needs to be drummed into people's heads that having children out of wedlock IS A PROBLEM. There's nothing good about it.

Marriage is not perfect, but children born within marriages have a fighting chance at life. How many Black men are in jail who grew up in fatherless homes? How many Black women who grew up in fatherless homes go out and have children out of wedlock, who struggle in poverty? Why are we okay with this? Which other racial group is okay with this? And don't talk about Scandinavian countries -- not comparable to what's happened in the Black community.

KEEP SPEAKING UP, Christelyn! Your message is getting through -- that's why there's such a backlash. You're stepping on toes.

You know what, I compare the whole 'carrying the BC or the burdens of the black race' thing to this:

Have you ever used a moving company to move your things when you're moving out of one house to go to another? Have you ever noticed that the removal MEN working for these companies are actually MEN only? That's one clue right there. Imagine you have in your house a lovely very good quality table made out of very heavy wood or marble, let's say. And a whole bunch black people, men and women, were a lifting this marble table up at the same time and trying to move it somewhere. Then one by one, or right away the black men decide to stop lifting the table and just walk away, leaving the black women to lift the table up by themselves which is not a good thing to do. THAT'S how I see the black collective today.

The black women just insist and continue with lifting up something too heavy for themselves that they weren't built to handle and some of them would even keep trying after some of the other black women stop lifting it all. Everybody else has walked away and found something better to do with their time, but these black women don't stop to think if they themselves have something else that they could be doing!

This is a real life problem. How do I know?: Becasue of my own mother. I hate to admit it but she does have some mammy-ish endencies. She's a nurse who usually dealt with older, less mobile patients. She had one elderly WW who would have tendencies to fall all over the place, and even the other BW nurses told my Mom that 'If that lady keeps falling, to just let her drop to the floor, because she's already lived most of her life already' and even agencies that hire nurses tell their staff the same thing because they can't cover their staff if they get injured on the job.

But what did my Mom do? Catch the old lady when she was about to drop from the bed, and my mother's back will never be the same because a lot of tissue got pulled out of whack. And hindsight is sadly always 20/20 and even the other day my Mom said how her fellow nurses working with her were right because that old woman must be long dead by now, and here she still is with a bad back that she constantly has to worry about.

i think the real reason they're hating on your marriage is just that... you're married! the average black woman isn't married (and many of them never will be) unfortunately.

Elle wrote: "Now let’s talk about the paragraphs that were cherry-picked for this blog post. ...The second statement was pulled out of an article by g.g., a writer whose work I enjoy reading and whom I respect. While I do not share her opinions on interracial relationships, I have read the article several times as well as all of the comments associated with them. I think g.g. brings up some very good points and I agree with much of what she says. While I don’t share her view shown in the one quote picked out of that article, I am not going to say that her opinion is invalid. *Especially* since she states explicitly in the comment section that she does not expect or advocate that everyone feel the same way that she does about interracial relationships. My respect for her personal choice about who she does not to be with is no different than my respect for Christelyn’s choice about who she is with. If all that anyone takes away from that article is that g.g. doesn’t want an interracial relationship and puts down those who do, her point was definitely missed."

Elle, I couldn't have said it better myself. All the negative backlash you had to endure as a result of your well composed response is the exact problem with this blog and the NWNW forums. Christelyn distorts ideas, takes them out of context to place herself in a victim role and then gains sympathy from the "leave Christelyn alone" bandwagon who fail to investigate for themselves and lack critical thinking skills.

I have never attacked Christelyn's marriage. I simply stated my personal decision to not engage in an interracial relationship - a decision which has not kept me from supporting the interracial relationships of my sister and friends.

Personally I just see this as another sad attempt by the organizer to kickstart her cause using sensationalism/shock value. Again, I hope she realizes she is doing more harm than good by dividing the community and pitting black women against each other. This post is the work of an instigator who spreads gossip and then sits back and enjoys watching people fight over a problem that never really existed.

God bless Christelyn, her marriage, her children and all the women seeking love and marriage (swirl or not).

-ggSpirit

I was just at a different IR site at found this quote by Ambassador to United Nations, Susan Rice.

“So if you want a family, get yourself launched, find a *worthy* partner, build a support network, put some money in the bank-and then get going,”

To me this is the heart and soul of NWNW. This was said by a black woman who is not only extremely powerful and successful, but it also married and has a child. She is now apart of the Obama administration but her son was born while she was born while she was the Assistant Secretary of State for the Clinton administration. She was 31, which means she was still a fairly young mother. She was already married which means she was a very young bride. She'd worked for two different presidents which means she has probably never settled for anything in her entire life.

The point of NWNW is that it is not too late for any woman, especially women that single without children. We can go out and find our husbands and good fathers for our (future) children as well as find our jobs and have well rounded lives. We can be examples to girls who cannot help their situation that they don't have to remain in those situations. And these girls and women will never believe that they can do it if they don't see others going it as well. Why should anyone have to try and fix problems in their lives when they can do many things to avoid the problems all together.

There are things they hate about themselves and that’s the reason why they are pointing their disdain toward you. If they hate themselves... they'll end up hurting themselves.

Be well...

I have the perfect solution for all those who don't support NWNW. Let's stop supporting them - with our tax dollars. That means no welfare, no subsidized housing, no food stamps, no subsidized daycare, no social or entitlement programs to pick up the slack. Then we'll really see "Life Happen" to them. If their choice is to have OOW children without a committed male partner, then let them do so. And left them feel the consequences of their actions. We'll soon see who survives and who doesn't. The world is so full of liars and deceivers who claim to be and convince themselves that they are full or wisdom, when they are in fact nothing more than the blind leading the blind at best, and minions of Satan at worst. Life happens - what a statement of irresponsibility and unaccountability. I expect to hear that from a 2 year old, not from a so-called adult. It is absolutely ridiculous that time and resources have to keep being WASTED on such people and such issues. But fortunately and unfortunately, not for too much longer. People are becoming less and less willing to support the consequences of the dysfunctions of others (recall the line-up of black women and children in Atlanta trying to sign up for a few subsidized housing spaces, as an example). We're heading into a political cycle where entitlements are going to be cut, and those doing the cutting won't care if you live or die. And those caught in OOW poverty are going to suffer hardest and longest. The truth is that the world is already moving on without you. Those who won't listen will, unfortunately, feel pain.

Ladies (and Gents),

As melodramatic as it may seem, IMO we're truly at war with the hearts and minds of the next generation (and current who will at least have an open ear) of black girls/young women.

We see the causalities (and in some cases basically living dead) of all ages around us. From overburdened Great Grandmothers, on down to unwed teenagers with no means to take care of themselves less more a vulnerable child.

When you're at War you don't give your enemies ANY concessions. You don't have to be "fair" with them in fact as Evia says, Lives NOT fair.

The only ones who think you have to be "fair" - even towards your enemies - seemingly are black women.

And we have the LEAST reason to give ANYONE "a chance" unless they've proven FIRST beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have OUR back and our best interest in mind.

Others (especially a large percentage of black male/black male oriented black female/"community" others) have a LOUSY track record when it comes to being interested in furthering the interests of black women and black girls who desire more out of life than being unmarried black breeding stock and cheerleaders for dead concepts.

Being anti NWNW (which is the human norm across this planet) for whatever convoluted "reason" proves to me that the opposition is not pro black women/girl empowerment.

We're telling heterosexual marriage oriented BW and girls you have the SAME choices and options that white, Asian, Indian, Hispanic, etc... women have. The SAME. Marriage is NOT only for white people. It's for whoever desires it. QUALITY is what matters. NOT "race". You don't have to "go it alone" and be a "strong black woman"/mule. If you marry the right man, HE will be YOUR strength and together you can build a strong solid foundation to rear the next generation.

IMO anyone who has issues with the above statements as it applies to straight marriage oriented BW, is not truly pro BW/girl.

And this is a PRO BW/girl site.

We're at war here. So when we see nonsense unsupportive of OUR cause, we have to go for the jugular and call a spade a spade.

And get back on track and STAY on track.

Because there's work to do.

What is sad about the critism is you are sharing your experiences and thought for them (black women). I mean if they are not moved by the ideas on the blog, do not read it. I mean that is what I do, do not read, unless someone violates any of my rights or it you have a something positive to say.

Black people's "reputation" is ALREADY SHOT! Thanks to all of this indiscriminate loveless and commitmentless scr*wing without seemingly ANY thought of the consequences to ones own health and well being, future, OR that of the blighted lives of the innocent and defenseless children (victims) who are being brought into this world under less than ideal circumstances.

"Reputation"... a BIG LOL and SMDH.

Christelyn, and the rest of us with some d*mn common sense (and decency) who support NWNW (which has been the human norm for eons) are trying to RESTORE the good family oriented reputation that African-Americans once had.

African-Americans were once known as being highly family oriented with high marriage rates. Right out of slavery - when blacks were DIRT poor - the vast majority of black children were born and raised in TWO parent households. A mother AND a father. Something like 80%. Now we know what close to 80% stands for when it comes to blacks and it's shameful.

IMO Christelyn, along with the other BWE/BWIR bloggers - and us commenters - are providing an INVALUABLE service to "the community" whether the detractors realize it or not.

We are letting anyone who will listen know that there are STILL signs of intelligence in the black universe.

We (blacks) are NOT a monolith by any stretch of the imagination, and there is a growing percentage of sane heterosexual marriage oriented African-American BW who have the SAME aspirations and expectations as every other woman on the planet when it comes to the issue of marriage and childbearing. A NEW breed of BW who will not restrict themselves racially speaking when it comes to seeking QUALITY men who will make QUALITY husbands and QUALITY fathers to their children. Period. End of story.

If the detractors of the NWNW message have a "plan" to stem the tide of the multiple negative outcomes directly related to mass fatherlessness in the "community", instead of detracting from our message, they need to get busy doing what they can to enact their plan. Instead of b*tching and complaining about Christelyn and others who HAVE offered a time-tested solution to the problem.

If they're not willing to do that, they need to STFU and get out of the way.

And if they can't do that either, they can at least restrict their complaints/objections/"concerns" to THEIR sites/blogs.

They are unwanted here. Their comments are tired, stale, regurgitated, and predictable.

We've heard it ALL before. And unless the detractors offer a reasonable solution to the problem at hand (mass fatherlessness and the mass HAVOC it brings), and proof that they're actively putting their plan into action, then their "two-cents" and "opinions" are USELESS and IMO a waste of precious time and space in the comments section.

If it's as bad as it seems to be with Black fathers leaving their Babies in America, then I think that anything people do to stop this negative trend would be a good thing. At least she's trying to do something while others just sits around and complain.

Oh and attacking her family, that's just low.

And people who claim that this is hurting "black people's reputation" grow some skin on your nose please. If you really worried about our reputation, shutdown BET please.

oopsy, sorry here is the link Eugenia was referring to earlier:

http://sojournerspassport.com/catering-to-damaged-black-men-by-deliberately-getting-it-twisted/

With N., Elaine and Monique I agree. Enough already, the doc and I had our time, I personally didn't understand why someone would bring up stuff from a month ago but whatever. If other people have no life that's fine. But in this time, I've been living and trying to spread the message of NWNW to anyone who will listen. I wasn't really sure why these folks just showed up here but I'll chalk it up to that they no longer have a way to spread to their sabotage at Twitter or NWNW website, no more sabotage there so they come here. The time for fairness is over, I also admire Christelyn for trying to be fair but that time has come and gone and saboteurs do not deserve equal time. So let's get on with it.

*sigh* here we go again. I just can't grasp why these "sista soldier" BW need to comment on this blog. I mean it's lunacy, really. OK, you don't like the campaign of NWNW, you don't like the fact that Chirstelyn is married to a white man, you think NWNW's message is elitist, classist, hetero-normative and short-sighted, etc, etc. Fine, that's what you believe, so why do you still come here to comment? Stay on your blogs and comment on blogs who agree with you so those who agree with the message of NWNW can go on and do some WORK.

The MESSAGE of NWNW as I understand it is that BLACK WOMEN should not be reproducing with men who are neither interested or equipped to parent a child. If he is unwilling, unable or incapable of marrying you, committing to you and being a partner with you in the rearing of this child then you need not have a child with him. My understanding of NWNW is about the empowerment of HETEROSEXAUL BW who want a family and who want to ensure that their offspring have a fighting chance in an increasingly volatile world by having at least two parents invested in their rearing. I get that you don't agree with that OK fine, don't agree with it...just stop posting here.

You all are not giving dissent, many of you have not offered NOT ONE IDEA or COURSE of ACTION to address the glaring problem of chronic fatherlessness within the increasingly defunct Black community. NOT ONE OF YOU have offered an IDEA or COURSE OF ACTION on the scale or magnitude of NWNW to address this issue since NWNW was launched over a month ago. I'll say it again..NOT ONE. There has been namecalling, and finger pointing, but no ACTION, NO competing IDEAS, NO WORK. Complaining, and bitching and pointing fingers and throwing around credentials and degrees and fancy names you all read in college is just SO MUCH EASIER, than actually do the WORK of stemming the tsunami-like tide of Black fatherless children and all its attendant problems in this country. Having to deal with that issue is just gonna call for SO MUCH WORK.

Christelyn, I applaud you for wanting to be fair and wanting to have debate and discussion on this issue and this is your blog and you can do what you will with it, but I am asking that you not give voice to these naysayers any further. They derail the conversation, which is their intention, they throw in all types of red-herring arguments in order to obfuscate and cloud the issue. We need not give energy to this. As many havee alluded to and as Khadija has so simply stated let the grasshoppers do what they do and we ants will go on with our WORK.

I too agree with Eugenia about not giving lunacy a forum no longer. The more your focusing on the negative, the more I think it could make you doubt yourself and this movement, and that is not what you need right now. I do believe that some critics can be helpful to your movement because they can see things that you may not have considered before. However the critics who do nothing but bash the movement without even giving any real solutions, as witnessed over Twitter and right here on this particular blog post, I say ignore them. Yes, it is hard to do, but you have to think that all this time that you are dedicating to these negative people you could be doing more things for the movement itself. You should counter each negative comment from naysayers with your positive contribution towards NWNW. I for one have no real issue with No Wedding No Womb so far, especially since you have had over 100+ bloggers, all from different backgrounds/beliefs, to give their story of why they support NWNW in some form of fashion. Hopefully, more people will understand that life doesn't "just happen" and that we need to hold ourselves accountable for everything we choose to do. To me THAT is what life is about. As adults, we must think about the consequences of our actions BEFOREHAND. We must think of out [future] children and do whatever possible to provide them the best life possible (in whatever variety that could to this "best" life). That is what NWNW is about. If some people lack the reading and comprehension skills and/or want to be contrary just for the sake of it to the point they do not understand what NWNW is REALLY about, well that's on them [shrug].

To the dissenters:

I've read your comments and I see you all disagree with Christelyn's marriage and/or those who are in support of NWNW.

Okay. Fair enough.

What I have to ask you all is this -- Why does this matter?

What does her marriage, or even more extraneously, a few of the people who agree with NWNW, have to do with the MESSAGE?

These are all irrelevancies to the actual matter at hand.

Needless to say, no one is perfect, and you are bound to disagree with something about a leader or his/her backers. How many of you who vote agree 100 percent with the candidate's personal life or background? Why throw away the baby with the bath water?

That you all are nitpicking makes me believe that I was absolutely correct in my analysis that this backlash has more to do with "race loyalty" and an inability or refusal to look critically at one's self and one's perceived group.

P.S. The manner in which some of you have decided to disagree with Christelyn and others I find to be VERY distateful and juvenile. Extremely so: I was not expecting that. But like I said, I think it's important to look past the irrelevancies and hear out the message, so I've offered my sentiments on your arguments above.

I think we have some of this going on this thread, as we try to figure why anyone would care who Christelyn is married to in regards to NWNW. I read this "Time’s Up: Legitimate Dissent Versus Sabotage ~ by Khadija Nassif of “The Sojourner’s Passport” sorry I can't give you direct link, I stink at that kind of stuff but it's the NWNW website and it's really time to just truly stop worrying about and analyzing why people are hating on her marriage. And it's time to start doing what you can to help the premise of NWNW happen in your families, homes and communities.

I'm going to say it and it's been said, stop giving lunancy a forum. The folks that I see on here that are critiquing and I'm not even gonna say critiquing because it's not even critiquing it's just complaining because you're not being nice to them and saying nice stuff to them, that makes them feel good about their dysfunctional lives, just forget it. They are not going to change their minds, stop seeking approval from the dead, these folks are dead morally, intellectually, let it go. There are tons of people who are on your side and willing to support to you in NWNW so use those resources. For some reason people with a complaint, want you to address it, their egos don't need to be feed. You're not gonna convince everyone to agree with you, these people are about themselves and you're trying to do something to help children and women to make sure they aren't suffering in fatherless home. I could care less if the father is black or white or hispanic or asian, as long as black women and their children are in loving, supportive, protective relationships and families it's all good. There will always be people that are left behind, they can go down with the ship of fools. You should have no issue letting them go, it's time to get to work, not worry about foolishness because trying to understand some of the venomous vitrol is really like asking crazy people to somehow give you their approval, who cares.

I've said this before, I'll say it again. Those people who just can't see themselves with someone white forget it was someone black who sold their ancestors to the slave traders. If that's their thinking they shouldn't even be with other black folks.

Next, water seeks its own level. We attract what we put out. Based on all the venom that has come out of the mouths of black folks about waiting for marriage to have a child - a morally, spiritually and economically wise option - I am of the opinion that the problem with some black women is black women. If they can't think beyond their color to see what is good for them, then there's no way they're going to see a good man, regardless of his color, if he was gift wrapped and dropped on their front door.

Finally, let's not forget, not everyone wanted to leave Gomorrah right before God destroyed it. Some people would rather stay. Not all black women are going to appreciate the message.

K.Michel, I am totally confused as to what you are trying to say in your post. Would you care to elaborate further? I'd rather not assume or read between the lines, so please...explain? thanks

Christelyn, if you sincerely want the answer to your question... and I mean, sincerely. Elle's is the only post that matters in this thread. Everyone else has little or no problems with "No Wedding, No Womb", so why would we listen to them if we're trying to figure out "why so many are 'hating' on your marriage"?

They'll only be telling you what you think you'd want to hear, or what would make you (and themselves) feel better.

You strike me as a very nice person (despite the treatment that a few of my ladyfriends have received), so don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way.

It's a bit naive of you to be surprised at the backlash you've been getting (and I say this respectfully). Did you expect "No Wedding, No Womb" to go over well? For everyone to open their arms lovingly to you, Black men and women alike?

Or maybe you expected this response all along?

Personally, I don't think you're naive at all. I think this is all deliberate, but what do I know?

If I can speak honestly, I have a very tough time trusting your intentions with "No Wedding, No Womb". It's not me being petty... I don't have time to be petty. That is me being careful. I see bloggers like LorMarie, Faith and CW spearheading it and huge red flags come up for me. I start thinking, "what's the angle here?"

That's neither here nor there.

Your interracial marriage isn't the issue, I'm sure. Read the comments of this thread (barring Elle's). Ask yourself whether a Black woman who wasn't open to being in an interracial relationship would want to converse with the people who made them... much less take orders from them. I hope you understand. You have my e-mail, if you don't.

Stay classy.