Thoughtful Response to Last Week’s Holly Patraeus Post

Thoughtful Response to Last Week’s Holly Patraeus Post

Why is everyone piling insult upon the injury in Holly Petraeus’ life? Because she doesn’t look like a hot young model? Because she looks like a 50+ year old woman who raised her family and moved numerous times because of her husband’s job?

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Why is everyone piling insult upon the injury in Holly Petraeus’ life? Because she doesn’t look like a hot young model? Because she looks like a 50+ year old woman who raised her family and moved numerous times because of her husband’s job?

Why is it expected that she is supposed to take the blame for his indiscretion? It’s her fault because she isn’t hot? She “let herself go” so it is understandable why he wanted a younger hotter woman ?

What kind of thinking is that?

Maybe it’s because I’m over 50 and I know how drastically the thinking about women changes once we are no longer young and hot. Yes, I know, I don’t look my age but the truth is, I know how old I am. I’m no young hot babe anymore either. But should I work harder at the image because it’s “expected” of me? Do I owe it to the world to look desirable way past when it should matter? Why can’t I be loved because I am a kind and loving woman? Because I am intelligent, funny, self-confident and sensual? Why does being older render a woman unlovable?

Life is unkind to women in many ways but to me, one of the coldest realities is that regardless of how good your heart is, how smart you are, how efficient and capable you are, no matter what, if you aren’t “beautiful,” nothing else you are matters that much. We are always first judged by our looks and everything else is secondary.

This becomes especially difficult once you reach that point in life where those pounds are really hard to get rid of. Hard when those lines creep into your face and that gray is taking over your hair. Very hard when those once perky breasts start to go south, that cute butt starts to sag and the waistline has expanded. Yes, there are some women who can delay this aging thing for a while, but let’s be honest, it catches up with all of us eventually.

But does it make you less a woman? To me, it is one of life’s ironies that just when your self-confidence is highest, when you finally get what it’s all about, when you no longer worry about little middling things that really don’t mean that much, when you are at your sexual peak, when you know what you are doing and are most likely to be the best lover ever, you are no longer considered attractive or even desirable.

The men who should be available to you are now attempting to grasp onto their own flagging grip on age are chasing girls half their age. It keeps them young, they say. They want girls who are still able to give them children even after they have raised a set with you and should be anticipating grand children instead. It makes them feel the very thing they say we aren’t – desirable.

We all know what is going on when we see an older balding or gray haired man with a young girl half his age, and we know it isn’t true love. General Petraeus and George Clooney are two different animals. Younger women want George for the same reason older women do – the man is famous, intelligent, rich and he puts the G in gorgeous.

General Petraeus is no George Clooney. Let’s face it, he’s no hunk of burning love. He’s rather skeletal and nervous looking for my taste. But he’s a powerful man and probably has a nickel or two to rub together. Power makes him attractive to younger women. I guarantee you Ms. Broadwell would not have been willing to engage in a verbal catfight over him had he not been who he is.

Men delude themselves every day by thinking that a young hot woman wants his old worn out butt because she loves him. Not true. She wants something from him. She sees him as being some form of security for her and she is willing to offer up her young hot body and even have a child or two in order to get it.

I have had numerous conversations with young women who find the thought of sex with an older man repulsive, but add they will choke back the gag factor if he has enough money.

But all this is overlooked while everyone happily bashes his wife for not being “beautiful.”

Doesn’t it matter that this woman has done valuable charitable work, she has given freely of her own time to help others, she has raised the value of her philandering husband and has suffered in silence over these 37 years of marriage and now must endure public derision because she looks like a 50 plus married woman with children and a life should look?

Why is his cheating her fault? If she had concentrated on her own looks instead of her marriage, her family and her life, we’d say she was shallow and selfish. Did she break some vow by “letting herself go?”

Have we lost sight of the fact that she is the one who was wronged here? If he is prosecuted for his completely ludicrous behavior, it is entirely possible that he will lose his pension and that her life will be economically impacted as well. How is that her fault?

Now he is sitting at home in disgrace. He had to leave his powerful position in the government. He’s right in the media storm as more and more distasteful information comes out about his ridiculous behavior and the silly self centered woman he risked it all for.

And who is sitting by his side, undoubtedly wondering what she did wrong, feeling the pain of knowing her husband cheated on her with a younger, more attractive woman and questioning her own femininity?

And who are we, the public, to add to her pain by blaming her because she isn’t beautiful?

How much does the poor woman have to suffer?

Holly Petraeus did nothing wrong other than marrying a philandering, selfish, lying childish man.

 

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LorMarie 1345 pts

This deserves repeating!

 

"And who are we, the public, to add to her pain by blaming her because she isn’t beautiful?"

Joyce345 1738 pts

 Brenda55. 

"...I feel that after a certain point in your life you deserve serenity...."

 

100% agree. What is the point in getting married if you are supposed to remain in perpetual competition with others for your mates attention?

 

I have met men who were wealthier and more good looking than my husband but I pay them no mind because I don't believe that my husband should have to compete with anyone for my attention.

Joyce345 1738 pts

I couldn't agree more. Holly Patreaus has a right to be left alone. She has done nothing except take care of her family for all these years. I don't think that 60 year old women should be bending over backwards trying to look sexy to keep their selfish husbands faithful. Yes, if your husband expects you to look 30 when you are 60 HE IS SELFISH.

 

The general has his own reasons for cheating which may or may not have something to do with Holly's looks. We'll never know the real reasons. Cheaters generally cheat first and then make up 'reasons' later. No point in trying to study why he cheated.

iHeartLove 804 pts

"Yes, there are some women who can delay this aging thing for a while, but let’s be honest, it catches up with all of us eventually."

 

This is what makes me laugh. Age don't discriminate. Age don't give an ish if you're "trying to keep a man."

 

Every person who is blessed to live a long life will look in the mirror one day and lament that the 25yr old hottie they use to be is gone. 

DeepWater 2446 pts

I've been wanting to say this.    I have more male friends than I can handle.   Boyfriend doesn't necessarily care for this, you know why?    I'm a sportswoman.    As a sidebar to Mrs. Betrayus, her husband appreciated Broadwell for her "shape"skills.   The woman can do serious push-ups, she's "in-shape".      

 

A lot of the ladies here are not sportswomen, of which I am.   I do, play, and watch sports.  It's who I am.   I not only have a competitive nature, I'm a jock at heart and men love it, not all, but most, love it.   I think that is also a problematic emblem of what's going on in Betrayus matter.  Broadwell could do as many, if not more, push-ups than Betrayus himeself.    

 

I notice females (women) on this and other site(s) are not "into" sports, where "men" live.   This is where I live and have for multiple decades.  

 

Regarding Mrs. Betrayus, she does not appear "in shape", I don't think she's "ugly" but I do think she is no longer "sexually" appealing, you know, if I were a man I would see Broadwell as "sexy" in that she keeps in tune with her body.    

 

I mean, look at Mrs. O, she does the "Dougie" dance and moves her body, as well as my having liked Mrs. Ford (dressed fly and created The Betty Ford Center for "serious" alcohol and drup abuse patients of which is followed to this day, in just about, all drug and substance abuse treatments, to this very day) in that she was fly in her dress and appearance and hair, and even in the 70s, Mrs. Ford always had a tough hairstyle, mostly in the back, where it came to a "point" at the nape of her neck, she was ALWAYS fly.   Even Mrs. Reagan (couldn't stand her husband) had tough dresses and hair even at an "elder" age, I believe she's still alive, though days are "numerated".

 

So for people to call me sexist, is a joke, they just mad, that I don't "follow" in line, that ain't me, never will be.  I say, ladies are losin' out in that they chose not to enter "a man's' domain".    I'mma a tough broad, always have been, always will be.     Don't like it, so be it.

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@DeepWater you don't know what any women on this page are or are not, that's a broad assumption. Being a sportsman doesn't mean anything if you have an immature husband this not keeping his vows. Geez once again, this man is married, he took vows, her gaining weight or looking dowdy does not make it okay to break them. Too tell the truth here in the real world, most men and women are not sportsman. At least not in their old age.

Karla 18226 pts

 DeepWater I'm glad your sportsmanship works well for you and creates sex appeal that men of your circle seem to like. Of course, that can work the opposite way too.  When I was in the Navy, I had no choice but to be sporty jock.  It was part of our job to remain fit, in shape and able to do all the things men could do on ships and in squadrons; it was also part of teambuilding.  But, instead of being considered "sexy" and "in shape", most of us were considered "butch" or "trying too much to be like a man".  I was actually told, by one of my commanding officers, that I needed to "feminize" myself and his delicate, blonde, non-sporting wifey (Southern belle who never (gasp!) perspired) could give me tips on how to do so.  I was far from butch; I had long, relaxed hair, wore makeup, earrings, even skirts from time to time in my uniform and yet, this is what I got for being able to keep up with the guys.  I met my husband at that same command; he was also in the Navy but he didn't see me the way a lot of Navy men did.  It only took one.

 

Petraeus's illicit affair isn't about his wife.  Again, let me state for the record, that we have no idea what's going on with them nor can we state, with any certainty, that her looks are the cause of him totally blowing his career because the Viagra gave him a four-hour erection and he felt the need to relieve it, many times, with his biographer.  My guess is, had Mrs. P been fit, trim and still looked like she did but skinnier, never having gotten a facelift or something of that nature, the media would have said she should have gotten plastic surgery to make herself look younger, she should have dyed her hair, she should have gotten contacts because he preferred brown eyes to blue.  There's no way this woman could have won, no matter what she did because, once the claws were out, the media were going to find something wrong with her to be able to find a simple, "justifiable" reason for what he did.  I submit that there is no reason other than the simple one of eating his cake and having it too.  It's been done since the beginning of time and there's no rhyme or reason for it except in the cheating men's and women's heads.

 

Also, it's not possible to paint all of us with a brush of being non-sporting women.  Up until now, I'm willing to bet a lot of us didn't know you were a jock.  I think you're a cool person and agree with what you said about the First Ladies but they are/were in a different stratosphere than Mrs. P, they certainly have/had more "assistance" at their disposal (servants, cooks, secretaries and every fashion house begging them to show off their outfits, not to mention a kick-a$$ gym) and there's no evidence their husbands cheated so the point is moot.

DeepWater 2446 pts

 Karla   True that, solid points, Karla.

Spabeautigal 7 pts

I agree wholeheartedly. Shame on folks so shallow that they try to justify their own lust and greed. I hope Holly gets everything and the kitchen sink from that freak husband of hers and she should sue the pants off of his trick or being a home wrecker as well!

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

I know some folks on here don't get mercy, my hope is that you'll never need any.

Neecy.  Hello.  You're one in a million, babe.

 

If you are born a female in our society, you are granted social value and power from the ages of your teens to mid 30's simply by existing.   Men of social status, power and influence will court you and society as a whole will protect you . 

 

When your looks fade, this power will be gone, but it's still a good 15-20 years of power and sexual value.  Spend this time earning REAL value that no one can take away from you.  Get an education,  a career, raise a family, get involved in your community, empower yourself in any way you desire.  Eventually,  your sexual value will be gone, but if you have had kids, mother natures purpose for this value will have already been accomplished.

 

Now let's compare that to a man.  If you were born a man, there is NO time in your life that you will be granted any value or power than you have not EARNED. Standing around looking pretty or simply existing doesn't work for us.  We could be of little value from the ages of 0-99. 

 

We have to prove ourselves to be of value and we have to prove ourselves worthy of sex.   If we haven't attained financial security or gotten educated and shown the ability to be productive, social members of society, we may go our entire lives with no female interest and no social power.

 

All that happens when a females looks fade is you've joined the club of the rest of us (men) who have to earn our keep. Rather than bemoan the loss of power, try to recognize that it was never earned in the first place.  To think that men will feel sorry for you is to be ignorant of our position from the day we are born.

Joyce345 1738 pts

Interesting perspective. Never thought of it that way.

Neecy 1941 pts

And while we are jumping on Mr. Petraues  and his cheating and having a pity party for Mrs. P uuuh, i see not one mention about the POOR HUSBANDS of the two floosies who cheated on them with Mr. Petraues. Are they exempt from sympathy too? Ooooh they are men and they don't deserve the same empathy and sympathy and acknowledgment as Mrs. P?

 

How about just for one second we stop flogging mr. P  for a moment and start the public flogging of the two women who ENABLED this affair to even happen? Two MARRIED women who cheated on their spouses and hurt thier kids and families???? No post or topic about that? How about  we go hard on the two women in this scandal about thier behavior as women? Oh we can't do that if we are feeling sorry for ourselves as women now can we?

 

Cause we all know it takes two to tango. So for all this "oh woe is us women in a male dominated society"  it ALWAYS takes another WOMAN to agree to, and complete the cheating affair with a man. If women said NO to men who were cheating would we even be having this discussion?

 

 

 

I won't hold my breath :)

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Neecy 

"And while we are jumping on Mr. Petraues  and his cheating and having a pity party for Mrs. P uuuh, i see not one mention about the POOR HUSBANDS of the two floosies who cheated on them with Mr. Petraues."

 

Because the initial thread that birthed this one was about Mrs. Petraeus' looks.

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter I get that, but its been TWO threads on this topic and in the comments or post, rarely if ever are the other CHEATED ON parties (the other husbands of the two cheats) mentioned in conjunction with Mrs. p. they all went through this, yet the focus is ONLY on Mrs. P?

 

So. If we are going to have a post about how hard it is for women, then why can't we acknowlede the HUGE role women play in their own demise by ENABLING AFFAIRS AND MAL CHEATERS BY AGREEING TO THEM ? There were two other cheatees in this scandal - TWO *MARRIED* WOMEN and there is rare mention of them and their behavior and how their behavior as women ENABLED such an affair to take place.

 

Instead we want to focus on people pointing out the frumpiness of Mrs. p as the ones setting women back 100 years? lol come on.... Who are the real women setting women back? THE TWO MARRIED WOMEN who also broke their vows to thier husbands and HURT another married woman.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Neecy Oh I think  folks would have a lot of views on that. So maybe the administrators are listening and we canhave a thread on that. Or you know what? You can create one on your blog :)

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter :D  *translation* "shut the heck up Neecy you are getting on our nerves. HEY LOOK OVER THRERE! Its... YOUR OWN BLOG."

 

LMAO I'm just idding Kings!

 

But Oh believe me I am now. I just get sidetracked. Yall keep pulling me back into this discussion i can't finish my post!!!

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@KingsDaughter yes this about her not the other cheaters. If folks want run them down the rail, do so gladly. I'll say the same thing for them that I do for him. They're immature, they've damaged their marriages, they're narcissist and worse of all they've damaged their children with their selfishness. How is someone calling him out a pass for them. That logic makes no sense especially on this particular thread. No one gets a pass here.

Statuesque 1738 pts

My goodness. Can some people from the "keep it tight" school of "keeping" a man PLEASE stop acting like Holly Petraeus came out in public looking like Nick Nolte's mugshot? The woman was clean, well-groomed and had on a get up that probably cost more than the 6-inch Manolo stripper heels that many women salivate over. Being current in fashion or keeping up with Chris Kardashian is not what women in Mrs. Petraues's social circle were raised to do.

Neecy 1941 pts

 Statuesque Some of yall are still on Mrs. P and can't seem t move beyond that. I can say for MYSEF I am talking BEYOND Mrs. P. Yeah she's frumpy and a bit cuddly and cute  in a grandma kind of way. No one said she looks like hell. We said she looks FRUMPY. That is it. Fumpy is within her control. And frumpy goes across all age ranges and colors.

Neecy 1941 pts

 Statuesque Just to put it in perspective. My behind was frumpy and tore up in MY LATE 20's. Ok?

Statuesque 1738 pts

@Neecy The post is about her, though. I have mentioned the cuckolded husbands in most of my posts on the matter anyway, because the fact that they were cheated on too doesn't fit the "keep it tight" narrative. Plenty have gone beyond criticism of Mrs. Petraeus's style. Personally I find that the older people are the less most care about keeping current with today's trends. I would be the last person to express surprise if a woman of any age with any type of fashion sense got cheated on. I wouldn't lay the blame on her hairdo or weight. The blame lies with the man who broke his marriage vows. I wouldn't blame a husband for not making enough money or getting a beer guy. I'd lay the blame on the wife who broke her marriage vows. Deal with the problems in your marriage IN the marriage. I think most of us agree that is the right thing to do.

Neecy 1941 pts

 Statuesque  Neecy Ok we agree on that. i cant speak for others. i can speak for myself and say FOR THE RECORD. I never thought, assumed or SAID that Mrs. P and her frumpiness or looks was the *reason* her husband cheated. CHeating is disgusting from all angles b/c we live in a free society where people are free to break up and leave befor they do that.

 

And I will say again for the 74764734353654865 time ALL WOMEN no matter how unattractive or ATTRACTIVE they may be get cheated on. Its a proven FACT that i don't think anyone has or can deny. That is why I am just confused as to why people keep saying that others are accusing Mrs. P and her looks for why her husband cheated - when we ALL agreed that all women of various attractiveness get cheated on?

 

I do believe HOWEVER a lot of older women(including Mrs. P) do know or see signs their husbands are cheating and choose to stay for a number of reasons. How can you not see the signs? Especially when they have been together for ages. You see changes in your mans behavior after a certain time of being with them. The thing is they don't expect thier husbands to publicly humiliate them. A lot of women who reach Mrs. Ps age have no desire to have sex or even be bothered with their husbands on that level so they yield to the obvious signs of their husbands cheating, AS LONG as it doesn't humiliate them or thier family.

 

As we can see, when women stick around in a relationship with a man they see signs of cheating, its never good. I don't know this to even be the case in the Petraeus scandal, but I find it just a bit hard to believe that Mrs. P didn't suspect something well before the scandal broke.

Statuesque 1738 pts

 Neecy Signs of cheating are always bad, whether the women have acknowledged it or not.  It means that two people are no longer connecting.  Maybe this was known and discussed, maybe it wasn't.  In either case, it is clear to me that neither of the Petraeus' were ready to give up the marriage.

 

To answer your question, it comes in through the back door, IMO, when people acknowledge the truth on one hand (anyone can cheat, and one's physical appearance can't and won't stop it at any age) and then say in the next breath that if a 50+ year old woman can't conform physically to the standards set by women half her age, she should expect to be cheated on, or that it makes sense that her husband would cheat.  If from there, someone moves onto she should have done X, Y, Z to PREVENT the cheating that's just craziness in my opinion.  It also makes sense that if a powerful, rich man wants a younger woman, he has plenty of opportunity and leeway to do so.  Why settle for a proxy of a young thing when you can have the real deal young thing?  If you are trying to use your body as the primary means of keeping a man interested in you at Holly Petraeus's age, you are missing that crucial point.

 

This mentality comes from the premise that women keep men or lose them, that a woman with a man must claw, bite and fight her way to continued relevance with a man who is constantly being stalked by other women.  I don't see any evidence that men are kept or lost, but I see A LOT of evidence that some men exercise the options available to them no matter what the cost.  In fact, so do some women.  These people are rich, poor, fat, lazy, muscular, powerful, powerless, etc. etc.  

 

My uncle told me something many years ago that rings truer and truer the older I get:  "It's about the feeling a person gives you.  The person you love and you stay faithful to is the person who gives you a feeling that no one else can."  It's clear that the general lost that feeling for his wife.  It's not clear at all that the younger, hotter, "tighter" side piece inspired that feeling, because we are all debating about this situation precisely because she was trying to fend off another one with email threats.  

 

Whatever feeling the man is searching for, he has not found one woman who elicits it.  And so any woman who doesn't fit that bill in his mind may find that he will seek out other options until he finds it.

Neecy 1941 pts

 Statuesque Well Chrissy is gonna get mad at me for saying this but she was honestly the ONLY person who made even an implication of such *Sorry Chris I still love you*. She created the post and asked the question "HOW MUCH DID SHE OWE IT TO HER HUSBAND TO KEEP HERSELF UP" and everyone is jumping on the commenters who simply responded with their opinions.

 

I truly believe things got interchanged. I get what you are saying. Its not realistic to believe that a woman should try to maintain an appearane of women half her age. But i think the undercut of what is being said (even in the original post made by Chris) is, ALWAYS LADIES, strive to look your best - even for your spouse. Its not about keeping them from cheating. peple are gonna cheat no matter how good or ugly you look if that is what is in thier mind to do.

 

And she posed the question "how much did she owe it to to her husband to keep herself up". So we responded wth our own VIEWS on that. Some of us do agree that couples should always maintain themselves in a intimate relationship b/c what makes thier relationship different from a deep platonic friendship is INTIMACY. You don't get intimacy without attraction. Therefore if someone is an a LONG-TERM monogamous intimate relationship, some of us feel that EACH party in that relationships OWES it to the other person to maintain a level of attractiveness that keeps their parter interested in them sexually. Of course this is no gurantee for long term love and bliss and no cheating. Nothing is EVER a guarantee in love. but the effort suggests that you care enough to TRY no matter what the end result is or if that person steps out.

 

Let's face it. Some spouses *DO* cheat b/c their better halves have let themselves go. its an UGLY reality and truth, but its a fact in some cases. This doesn't justify the cheating, but it does offer good discussion on whether we as people in relationsps (ALL INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS) Should strive to maintain a level of attractiveness for our mates. Not b/c if we don't they shoul dbe able to cheat, but b/c if that is going to be an important thing for a specific individual in NOT going to cheat then it could hep in some instances.

 

There are plenty of marriage counselors who will tell you that a lot of spouses become unnattracted to their wife or husband  who has just given up on their looks and felt the need to cheat b/c they wanted some physical satisfaction but stepped out b/c they were not intimatley attracted to their spouse. Its not right but it is what it is in some cases.

Statuesque 1738 pts

 Neecy LOL yes she did pose those questions, and there were many who agreed with her opinion.  Let's face it, offering any opinion here on an issue is liable to be challenged vigorously.  The quality of some opinions is low, and the civility of some opinions is as well.  Some folks offer more empathy, some folks will have none of it.  I lean towards the empathetic side, but not always.

 

My original post in Christelyn's thread stated my views on those questions in detail, but I separate the issue of fulfilling the needs of a mate in a relationship from what one's personal obligations in a relationship are.  I completely agree that anyone in a relationship who cannot or refuses to meet the needs of their S.O. is liable to be cheated on.  I completely agree that many who cheat will cite physical/sexual dissatisfaction as the motive.  But I am not convinced that either party gave it their all to restore the connection, that either party made the relationship a priority, if infidelity occurs.  The cheater broke a vow, and the person who was cheated on stopped tuning into the needs of the cheater.  Since everyone (in the West, at least) is free to stay in or leave a relationship, no one has an obligation to "keep" a person.  If you aren't happy with me because I am too old or too fat or too wrinkly, there's the door. If you have tried to tell me how important it is to you that I stay youthful, slim and wrinkle-free, and I cannot or refuse to meet your needs, show me the door. But cheating is the choice of a coward, or maybe just a poor communicator.  It is a cry for help from a selfish person who can't change another person to his/her satisfaction, so decides to get what she/he wants without showing that person the door.  Oftentimes the cheater really just wanted more attention, or to feel wanted in some way, and that IS the responsibility of his/her mate to provide....IF she/he chooses to be with that person.  All of this infidelity in most cases is due to poor communication between people who are no longer in tune with one another's needs.  It's the staying attuned and responding that matters, not the mechanics of "keeping it tight" or all of the cues that people look at.

 

People need to take commitment more seriously than they do, or accept the fact that cheating and other kinds of neglect have a high probability of ending their relationships.  I applaud anyone who is committed to staying in tune with a changing mate, and in tune with what their personal needs are.  I just don't think anyone owes it to another adult to change when we ALL have the option of walking away from a person who can't or won't meet our needs.

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@Statuesque yes, I just got married a second time last year. When my first marriage ended it wasn't that I was cheated on but you're right it happens sometimes ppl stop meeting or needs or don't even try. The downspiral of a marriage is lot longer than just a couple of months of cheating. I would have loved more in depth blog on cheating, working out issues in your marriage or relationship so cheating doesn't occur. T Yea there's no guarantee that you won't be cheated on and women are cheating as much as men today. But there are things you can do to lessen that chance. It's sad that he decided to go outside his marriage to find what he should have been seeking in his marriage that's never works. But yes he still had the duty of fidelity and if he didn't want to do it, he should have left her. When my ex wasn't meeting my needs, when I'd worked all I could with no reciprocation, it was time to move on. It was not time to cheat. Because that wasn't going to fix a thing. Many ppl in marriages as old as the Patreaus don't know anything about getting their needs met, many suppress them and build up resentment. They both took vows, yes I agree with you wholeheartedly if you're going to do commit to it. If not move the hell on and don't leave carnage for others to pick up.

Statuesque 1738 pts

 eugeniaberg   Statuesque Exactly!  If getting our needs met in a relationship was so easy-peasy there would be no affairs, long, drawn out unhappy relationships or divorce.  Commitment is not easy, and leaving or staying in a relationship is not an easy decision when a person wants something that they believe they can't/aren't getting from their mate.  But do the damned work, especially if you are married.  I say that and still have some empathy for people who can't, even the classic male "cake and eat it too" cheater, because these guys have lots of emotional issues underneath it all.  I feel sorry for them like I feel sorry for criminals that come from dysfunctional families...get it, sorry for it all, but you still committed a great wrong.

 

The most ironic thing for me in this Petraeus situation is the lack of honor that a career soldier displayed towards country and family.  Yes technically he was out of the military, but that stuff is bred into folks and tends not to leave them, ever.  Those are sacrosanct values in the military community.  I'm sure there are lots of soldiers who have been lectured, punished, demoted or kicked out the military by Petraeus as he rose through the ranks who are feeling lots of Schadenfreude right now, especially anyone punished for adultery.  

 

kiki100 630 pts

 eugeniaberg   Statuesque  Many of these men are selfish and are not going to leave if the only thing they are looking for is sex. Many of them lie and say they will divorce but do not. You were the mature on is your circumstance to pack up and leave.

WendyLBarber 169 pts

 eugeniaberg   Statuesque I agree Eugenia. If it's not working get a divorce. Why cheat? And especially now when everyone's business can be every where in an instant. I feel sorry for the kids. Last week when I went shopping to pick up a few things for Thanksgiving dinner, I talked to a couple who had been married for 60 years. They were still lovingly teasing each other. They enjoyed each other and I could tell that by the way they interacted with each other. If you're not getting what you want, tell your partner, get help and if that doesn't work, get out of the relationship.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Statuesque Oh no, not Nick nolte's mugshot LOL

Joyce345 1738 pts

 Statuesque 

I couldn't agree more. She just looks like a regular old white woman. She's not shabby or ugly.

Brenda55 19297 pts moderator

Thank you for writing this.  I vented extensively on the other two post related to this subject. I am vented out.

 

To me expecting older women to some how freeze their looks at age 38 is just another form of unnecessary pressure that is brought to bare on women. 

 

Me? I am not going for it. I have more time behind me than ahead and I am not for the drama. Ain't listening to that stuff.  I feel that after a certain point in your life you deserve serenity. I started unloading the toxic people, places and things in my life at age fifty and now at 57 things are chill. Don't come at me with some B.S cause I'ma hurt you.

Brenda55 19297 pts moderator

Off topic but related.  You know the scandal in now well into circus phase when this women shows up.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/21/gloria-allred-enters-petraeus-saga-as-attorney-for-natalie-khawam.html

 

Holly brake out the cast iron frying pan.  I'll hold dude down for you while go to work on him for putting you through all  this. 

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@Brenda55 yes! Love it.

Neecy 1941 pts

kiki100

Thank you! I am not buying this pity party about women againg and looks.  Boo hoo women age. YEAH big deal. You can still look great!  People need to understand that no matter what age you are, how many wrinkles you have, how thinning your hair is YOU CAN STILL LOOK GOOD AND LOOK YOUR BEST! Just because you reach a certain age doesn't mean you have to let yourself go.

 

I see aging women in 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's (YES mothers, grandmothers and great grandmothers of all races) everyday who I just look at and smile b/c they take the effort and time to make themselves look good everyday. Some of these women look downright FLY (yes even the old WHite women too) and they just make me smile on the insides. Some of their faces are more wrinkled than prunes. But you now what? They can't change the wrinkles. But you better believe they still have on a touch of lipstick or make up, their hair as thin as it may be is coiffed to the best of its ability, their clothes are appropriate yet stylish. Their nails are done. etc. i can go on. These are the old women who inspire me b/c they say to hell with letting themselves go. They still enjoy doing the things they did when they were younger even in spite of thier bodies changing.They enjoy being a woman and still partake in their femininity  all the way to the end. And you better believe they make people of all ages and genders smile b/c people love those who always make an effort to look good no matter their age. You should hear the people giving these old ladies compliments - I'm talking OLD LADIES. So these "women get old boo hoo hoo" comments don't really phase me b/c like Elanore Roosevelt said: "NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU FEEL INFERIOR WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT"

 

They make me inspired to grow older and know that i can STILL work at looking my best. They inspire me also b/c they didn't settle for that "when you get old it just all goes away". OMG then women wonder why they are always so insecure about thier looks? They are literally telling themselves that when they get old "its all over". Welll NOT FOR MOI. I'm 38 and considered "old" in the sexual market place. AND? I don't try to compete with teens and 20 year olds. I acknowledge and accept that YES younger women are more sought after for BIOLOGICAL reasons and for superficial reasons. AND? Does that mean at 38 pushing 40 i should just say "to hell wth my looks b/c most men are chasing 20 somethings"? NO. And I won't do that wen I am 50, 60, 70 either b/c I have always had wonderful examples of older women in my life who did not feel sorry for themselves growing old or getting the things that come with old age.

 

If God grants me good enough health to be able to do my best to look my best, you best believe I am going to do it all the way till the end BABY. I don't care if I am married or not. i am going to do my best to make my old age work for me and not me working for my old age. An older woman once said that to me when I complimented her and told her how inspiring she was.  She told me don't fall for the oey dokey that getting older mens that a woman loses her femininity. There are old women who are stll walking aroud like they are the ISHT b/c they refuse to feel sorry for themselves b/c they are old. They thumb their noses at society and other women who wanna throw pity parties about how they don't look hot after a certain age.

 

People always assume that  when discussing looks its about having the perfect skin and hair and body. NO. Its about working with what you HAVE and making the best of it. 

 

All I can say is i THANK GOD for the minority of old women who step out looking just as good as they can because they say to me that even in my old age when I reach those golden years I can still look and be as beautiful as I WANT and I don't have to accept looking frumpy or unkept just b/c I am old.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Neecy  kiki100 Advanced Style is a great site on older people fashion ( http://advancedstyle.blogspot.com/)

They're old enough to be my grandmas but I still enjoy looking through the pics and applaud them for it. Personally I love fashion and style and keeping fit. I like beautiful things. However I also appreciate that not everyone does and there are some people whose values are not embedded in such things. Maybe Mrs. P. is content with how she looks and doesn't feel INFERIOR. Btw I'm sure you know that the most beautiful girls and model types often don't feel beautiful and are hugely insecure but I digress. I have this niggling suspicion that Mrs P. has always been one of those little make up/unfussy hair and style persons. It doesn't make her less of a person or less worthy of compassion imo

 

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter  kiki100 Yeah I think Mrs. P like a lot of other women just have personalities that are less maintenance. I'm not knocking that. but that is not an age thing. Women of all ages vary in thier desires on dressing up and such. Some women get to a point where they simply can't be bothered. I get it. My dad's mother who is a POLAR opposite of my mom's mother is like Mrs. P. But i can tell you she says she is happy with being low maintenance but always has something to say when I or her youngest daughter who is my age likes to dress up or get "spiffied up" even if we are just going out for a minute. That is what irks me about women who say they love being low maintenance but want to harass women who like to dress up and use make up etc.

 

I am just speaking out for the women who enjoy this b/c HONESTLY I  feel in western society where femnism is HUGE, that too many women act as if there is something wrong with wanting to look good AT ANY AGE. How many times have we seen older women get accused of  "trying to hod onto her youth" simply b/c THEY choose to still wear make up, get their hair done and have their nails done? Because feminism AUTOMATICALLY says that women who think like this are trying to "please men" and are adhering to male domonated social rules etc. It never has anything to do with them just wanting to enjoy the things that come with being a woman (for those who like make up and things of that sort).

 

Women should feel good in making whatever choice it is for them. If they want to dress up everyday and wear make up, then they should not be made to feel SHALLOW or pleading to men's desires. Just as women who chose not to do that don't like people saying they should "dress up" more.

 

I just think Black women need to feel COMFORTABLE in knowing they have options. they don't always have to settle for that "you old and shouldn't be tryna dress up and look good since its all gone anyway" OR "you ant always gotta be trying to look good for someone. People are going to love you for you" crap.. i feel this is often the message and young African American women need a different message. That its OK to AT ANY AGE take pride in your appearance and love yourself and feel good about being a woman and the things that come with it.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Neecy  kiki100  I think third-wave feminists would disagree with some of your assertions but I'm with you regarding women having the ultimate decision (though environment/media undeniably plays a role) on how they want to look. I don't expect women to contort themselves into what I believe just as I don't like being pidgeonholed because of my race, religion, dating preferences, career and a whole gamut of other things.

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter  kiki100 OMG I love that blog you posted!! Thank you!

 

I think women should celebrate older women more instead of joining with society's pitiful views of older women. Maybe if more women stopped saying things like "well it all goes to hell when you get old" and say things like "the best is still yet to come BABEE", more women woudn't be so insecure about aging.

 

Men NEVER say crap about the ills of aging b/c hey truly believe they are STUDS well into their 90s. LOL

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 Neecy  kiki100

"hey truly believe they are STUDS well into their 90s."

 

  LOL some probably do, especially with the blue pill... Seriously though I think men are also insecure about aging but not to the same degree as women and it likely manifests in less obvious ways.

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter  kiki100 Women could have changed this mindset DECADES ago. Instead women have played along with it and AGREED with it. look I am not saying an older woman looks as good as a young fertile woman in her prime years. It wasn't set up that way. Young women are sought after b/c its in our youth that we are more fertile and able to use that to our advantage to gain a husband and father to our children.

 

A lot of women squander their youth and time when they can maximize finding a good husband, on no good loser men who suck the life out of her. By the time these women get 40 they are a mess and then start crying that "people don't love older women" stuff and star saying how hard it is for women. they were NOT saying that when they were at their peak and squandering their beauty, youth and fertility  on losers and ignoring good men who wanted her and would have committed to her over the long haul.

 

There is a reason young women are desirable b/c BIOLOGICALLY they are at the epitome of thier fertility.

 

Society has thwarted the original intent of biology by making it simply out to youth being some kind of be all end all. Its not. 

 

And women YES WOMEN jump on that bandwagon and only help to create that "old is bad" standard when they start beieving that b/c they are no longer fertile ad young they are useless and therefore shoud stop trying.

 

Men, as you said do feel insecurities about aging as well. A lot of those men will project that in various ways by either putting down older women their age and chasing women half thier age. But the poit is, men BELIEVE and PROMOTE that they are fab in their old age. Women DON'T do that. WOmen instead talk about how hard it is and focus on the older men who prefer younger women.

 

Instead of focusing on the older men who do appreciate a woman with some age and maturity.

 

That is where I am at now in my life as a woman who is pushing 40. Once I let go of the idea that I was no longer in my prime and therefore "not worthy" and started embracing my age and blessings that i do have and working with what I have, I meet men who are not caught up with being with 20 years olds. men who appreciate a woman, her maturity and the femininity at any age. THOSE are the only men I focus on and women need to STOP focusing on things and people who are against thier progress - this inclues aging. To many women listen to ignoramouses AND OTHER PITIFUL WOMEN about how terrible it is for women as we get older and how we should just stop trying.

 

If you believe it, then it is as far as I am concerned.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

Neecykiki100

The realization that one is ageing I'm sure is not easy for most people. Definitely would make you rethink some of the choices you previously made, wasted youth and all, and it's not restricted to looks. And some would whine loudly about it and not take any responsibility for their poor choices and shift the blame on a bunch of things. There are those.

 

On the other hand there are those who feel that they've really come into their own and have a better sense of self and are happy with who they are, "declining" looks included. They don't live in constant angst about not fitting the expected standard or constantly changing their personas to fit in with different people etc etc

 

Maybe what makes them happy is to live far away from the city on some farm or boring place and have found some similarly -inclined guy to do that with. I've met women just like that and they seem happy.

 

 

Neecy 1941 pts

 KingsDaughter  kiki100 Agreed. 

DeepWater 2446 pts

 Neecy  kiki100  What's good.   You're just about the only one I agree with here, Neecy.    As a woman of certain, I can still outrun, outbasketball, outfootball, outbaseball just about anybody on this site (nearing, not there, yet 50) and can still do the splits.    So folk hatin' on me for saying the truth about Mrs. Betrayus' looks, frumpy, not attractive, appearance wise, are the ones trippin.   I stays attractive for myself first then "for" the the man I'm with.   

 

As far as Jill Kelley and Broadwell husbands, they not fairing to well in this whole thing either in that both aforementioned females have made a mockery of their own marriages and themselves for that matter.

 

Like I said this ALL about right-wing neo-con power.  

 

Rove and company (Koch brothers) wanted their man (Robme and their mult-billion dollar no return investment) in power, thus, the the push of Robme trying to make B.O. look bad just prior to re-election so they could say that B.O. "knew" this happened thus, stretching here, they may would have gone as far as wanting the POTUS impeached to, there, again, have their man in power (again, return on investments).   THAT'S WHAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT.   However, it was not anticipated the American electorate would re-elect Obama considering the economy and all, so this whole mess would have been swept under the rug under Robme, but, Broadwell, again, after U.S. Marshalls got hold of her computer, had sensitive information about the envoy fella and 3 other American killed in attack in Benghazi, Libya.     Understand this whole trip was about power.  

 

Who knows what's going on in that marriage, I just stated the truth about Mrs. Betrayus, not attractive, and yes, I can still see with my eyeballs why the cheating.     Too bad folk don't want to hear the truth.   Men are visual, have been since time and memorium, even with a mature woman, as far as I'm concerned Betrayus is straight up dirtbag, slimeball.   He reminds me of a squirrel, buck teeth and all.   However, he had those medals on that chest and 4 stars on them shoulders which some women (does nothing for me) evidently find attractive.

 

So my calling out this womans' appearance is miniscule as compared to the macro picture, not the micro.    

valeriesmith15 136 pts

Probably Holly should have taken care of herself, but we don't know the type of husband she has.  Her husband is no oil painting himself. As far as I am concerned, her husband and his mistress are horrible, he for being unfaithful and the mistress, because she has her own husband and has children.  It is all selfishness all around.  Everytime when a man is untaithful we blame the wife, she is too ugly, in the case of Princess Diana, who was beautiful, she was too much of an air head.  It seems to be damned if you do and damned of you don't..  If an older woman is attractive and takes care of herself we accuse her of being mutton dressed like lamb.

 

There is programme. that I watch "Strictly Dancing" , similar to "Dancing with the stars".  Several older women have been voted off not because they couldn't dance, because they happen to be mothers, some older mothers, and  do the splits or they have beautiful legs and they are dancing with their younger male partners and they get voted off, because that is not how women should be. Society hates older women, if they happen to be mothers, Cat eat your dinner, they are selfish, heartless etc. We like fat, funny  women, becasue they are not a treat.  Suppose Sarah was alive today, looking stunningly beautiful and just give birth to Issac at the age of 90 years.  The authorities will definitey try and take her child away from her.  The medical authroties will not release her from hospital, because it is not possible. 

 

If a woman is 38 and has not had a child, yet she is too old and she only has 2 eggs left.  The only people society likes is young men, young women and older men, as for older women, society can't stand them.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 valeriesmith15 "Everytime when a man is untaithful we blame the wife, she is too ugly, in the case of Princess Diana, who was beautiful, she was too much of an air head.  It seems to be damned if you do and damned of you don't..  If an older woman is attractive and takes care of herself we accuse her of being mutton dressed like lamb."

 

So so true. I've read pieces where the likes of:

 

Halle Berry get's cheated on (chorus line-she's crazy anyway)

Garcelle Beauvais get's cheated on (chorus line - bwahaha so you thought you were special marrying that white dude)

Elin Nordegren (chorus line - this glorified baby sitter should thank her lucky stars for the pot of gold she landed)

Maria Shriver (chorus line - she really must eat something)

Demi Moore (chorus line -grow up and act your age, don't dress so hot, date men your age).

 

 Never can win in ageist, sexist and any other -ist societies.

KingsDaughter 4610 pts

 valeriesmith15 or perhaps it simply boils down to  schadenfreude :/