“Why You’re Not Married…Yet,” a Review by ‘ASwirlGirl’

“Why You’re Not Married…Yet,” a Review by ‘ASwirlGirl’

“McMillan doesn’t claim to be an expert, yet she believes that the fact that she’s been married and divorced three times, has experienced three live-in relationships, and had a large number of boyfriends yielded her a great deal of practical wisdom. She also claims that she has messed up in relationships to such an extent that she has a good idea of what works and what doesn’t.”

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ASwirlGirl

Why You’re Not Married . . . Yet – The Straight Talk You Need to Get the Relationship You Deserve by Tracy McMillan is based on the ubiquitous article Tracy wrote for the Huffington Post in February 2011. The piece unleashed a firestorm of conversation, special comment threads and a counter article on CNN Living.

McMillan doesn’t claim to be an expert, yet she believes that the fact that she’s been married and divorced three times, has experienced three live-in relationships, and had a large number of boyfriends yielded her a great deal of practical wisdom.  She also claims that she has messed up in relationships to such an extent that she has a good idea of what works and what doesn’t. [Christelyn barging in here--Terry will co-star with my buddy, Matthew Hussey on a reality show coming this fall!!]

McMillan’s original article listed six factors she attributed as causes for women’s perpetual single statuses:

      1.            You’re a bitch

      2.            You’re shallow

      3.            You’re a slut

      4.            You’re a liar

      5.            You’re selfish

      6.            You’re not good enough

follow up article  posted by McMillan in May 2012 added four additional reasons:

      7.            You’re a mess

      8.            You’re crazy

      9.            You’re a dude

  10.            You’re godless

These 10 reasons form the chapters in McMillan’s new book. The book begins with a 38-question True/False quiz. The object of the quiz is to show the reader how much she needs the book (I scored an 8, which meant I “sort of” needed the book even though I probably already know everything in it).

Each chapter features a consistent format:

  • Three reflective questions
  • McMillan’s personal insight regarding lessons she learned
  • An illustrative example of the chapter using one of McMillan’s friends or acquaintances
  • Discussion regarding how the chapter  relates to “some relevant stuff about men”
  • Advice concerning what the reader needs to do to change
  • In-your-face statements that summarize the chapter

Using this framework gave the book a nice flow and made each chapter easy to read.

Here’s a chapter-by-chapter breakdown. Per McMillan’s definitions, you’re not married yet, because:

Chapter 1 – You’re a Bitch

A “Bitch” is someone who freely unleashes angry energy and secretly enjoys doing so. A “Bitch” wants total control and is unloving, manipulative, judgmental, and spiteful. This bitchiness stems from a fear of hurt, rejection, and vulnerability. The bottom line? A Bitch just hates to be nice.

A woman needs to tame her inner Bitch because, according to McMillan, “Inside every man is a very simple creature who just wants to enjoy a woman, not do battle with her.”

I know a few “Bitches” (who doesn’t?) and I can certainly understand why chopping men off at the knees would not be considered  . . . well, endearing.

Chapter 2 – You’re Shallow

Being shallow means that a woman is “more concerned with how a man looks than how he is.” Shallow women give factors such as a man’s outward appearance and financial status more importance than his character.

McMillan took a lot of time explaining the pitfalls of shallowness and her points made sense. One thing stressed by BB&W is “character over color.” It doesn’t hurt to choose character over other external factors.

Chapter 3 – You’re a Slut

Basically, sluts engage in casual sex with men who aren’t committed to them, or engage in prolonged sexual relationships with men who won’t commit to them. This behavior is an antithesis to a woman who wants to be married.

McMillan’s premise is that quality men don’t fall in love or marry because of sex; they marry if and when they want to. A woman who uses sex as a means to getting a man to commit may find herself on the short end of the stick – pun intended.

Chapter 4 – You’re Crazy

Women who are “cray cray” (yes, McMillian actually uses this term) are intense, carry a ton of drama; are needy, easily hurt, jealous, insecure, dependent, and out of control.

McMillan advocates getting professional help and developing a hobby to help women develop relationships with themselves. While I agreed with her advice,  it came across a bit weakly on providing practical help.

Chapter 5 – You’re Selfish

A selfish woman approaches men largely in terms of what they do for her – how they make her feel, how they make her look, and add to her life. Selfish women take and don’t give.

McMillian advocates that women combat selfishness by engaging in service – giving – rather than constantly seeking to receive. Her pointers were noble and made sense, but may be perceived as somewhat simplistic when considering someone who is selfish to the core.

Chapter 6 – You’re a Mess

In a nutshell, women who are a mess have “issues.” McMillan defines marriage-hindering-issues as those factors that we try to hide – alcoholism, eating disorders, out of control spending habits, OCD. McMillan makes good points, but is weak on offering concrete solutions.

Chapter 7 – You Hate Yourself

Women who self-hate never think they’re good enough. Self-hatred foils attempts at finding true love because it constantly sabotages and becomes a self-fulfilling negative prophecy. The subject matter of this chapter can be a deep one for BW on a number of levels. We’ve all heard and know that we have to love ourselves before we can truly love someone else; this chapter holds to this principle.

Chapter 8 – You’re a Liar

Liars aren’t honest with themselves or with the men they date. Liars also aren’t honest with themselves or with men about what they want out of a relationship. If what you really want is marriage, then don’t lie and say you’re ok being a friend with benefits.

I view this reason as one of the strongest to consider for those who truly want to be married. Facing and denouncing the lies you tell yourself and those you date helps you to zero in on what you want and will cause you to adjust your behavior accordingly.

Chapter 9 – You’re a Dude

This chapter encourages women to tap into what McMillan calls their “inner feminine.” At first glance one would think that inner feminine refers to being girly; it doesn’t. Instead, it references being attuned to your inner power as a woman and knowing what makes you uniquely attractive. This is a valid point, yet I think it’s an intrinsic one that may be hard for some women to grasp.

Chapter 10 – You’re Godless

This was one of the most interesting chapters. Women who are “godless” make a man their “source.” Placing this level of importance on men scares them and thus causes them to run in the opposite direction. Bottom line: The status you would normally give to a “higher power” should not be attached to your relationship or your man.

Closing Thoughts

This book should be approached with the understanding that McMillan is not placing all the relationship blame on the shoulders of women, or looking to bash women for their single status. Instead, the purpose of the 10 reasons is an attempt to help women examine their lives and possibly change their minds about men, marriage, and themselves. The book is more robust than I expected it to be and it exceeded my expectations. Overall, it provides a great deal of food for thought and is quite worthy of consideration.

My rating: B+

 

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dani-BBW 1784 pts

I think it’s really, really easy to look back on dating opportunities with rose colored glasses 5, 10 or 15 years later while your cats are frolicking about, but I lean toward trusting people’s intuition in that moment. If you’re really lonely, of course you can go, “Maybe that guy wasn’t so bad” or “Maybe I could have made it work with him” but if you had character concerns or was not attracted to someone after a period of time because of whatever it was that deterred you, I think the right call was made not to pursue a relationship and things were fated as they were. I think as Elfe suggested, that many women fail to place themselves in situations to meet adequate numbers of men in order to find a compatible mate one is attracted to. Failing to do that has nothing to do with being a bitch or shallow or godless. I really think this book belongs in the self help section of the bookstore and not the relationship section. I would encourage single women who believe they are emotionally healthy, whole individuals to focus on resources that offer practical ways to increase the number of men they interact with. 

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 dani-BBW This: "I would encourage single women who believe they are emotionally healthy, whole individuals to focus on resources that offer practical ways to increase the number of men they interact with" definitely speaks to women who fit the category. Yet, on the other hand, there are some women who strategically place themselves in situations to meet men, meet them, and then can't maintain a relationship because they DO fall into one of the 10 categories. It doesn't hurt to engage in some honest self examination; some women may see themselves reflected in this book. I think the book fits the relationship category for the women it applies to. I certainly agree that it doesn't apply to women who are emotionally healthy and whole. A woman who is honest with herself will know which of the categories she fits into.

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl  dani-BBW "...emotionally healthy, whole individuals"

 

There is a spectrum of sanity/wholeness.  IMO, anything from the midpoint('I'm Ok, You're Ok')

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_OK,_You're_OK

to radiantly emotional health/borderline enlightenment

http://goo.gl/Y8gw4

should suffice before 'product placement.'

 

 No one is perfect. I think what we're looking for is the right combination of imperfect people ...which usually requires a lot of testing(chaste/near chaste dating, courting). 

 

Also re: failure to maintain rel'p.  This might sound weird but really the only rel'p to maintain from the woman's perspective is a marriage,IMO. OTing a bit here: Somehow women(not pointing at you but just thinking of what I've seen in general) have it scrambled that going all pseudo-wifely during courtship will lure the men into marriage... so cue the easy sex, OOW children, shacking up, being too available for dates, going exclusive pre-engagement, long phone calls, allowing oneself to be e-dated/texted too much...just being overly-responsive and well, essentially 'thirsty' as the kids say etc.

 

I haven't seen these behaviors work in women's favor at all.  I guess this goes under Chapters 7 &10.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Elfe  dani-BBW Well stated! Some may find this view a bit outdated, but I believe it holds a ton of merit. 

dani-BBW 1784 pts

Elfe  "No one is perfect. I think what we're looking for is the right combination of imperfect people ..." I agree with this. Get to a place where YOU feel you are a good person and have a good idea of what personality type best works with your own attributes (which some people may be indifferent to and others may see as flaws). Like R pointed out below, she felt uncomfortable with someone who has a mental illness. Whereas someone else saw that as being shallow. You will run yourself ragged trying to eliminate what OTHER people perceive as flaws.  

 

dani-BBW 1784 pts

ASwirlGirl

“It doesn't hurt to engage in some honest self examination.”

 

The problem is that there’s an over-abundance of things pointing single women to self-examination. It’s the whole “Oh you’re single – there’s probably something wrong with you – are you doing, x, y or z? Are you a, b or c? You know, you really should be D,E and F.” The problem I have is the default that if you’re single, it’s likely because there is something wrong with you. If the relationship advice industry had its way, single women would be self-examining til kingdom come in a futile quest to perfection.

 

 Everyone should a) love themselves and b) do unto others as they’d have done unto them. If you are not in both of these places, then you need to see the self-help section of the bookstore and/or a good therapist. It’s really that simple. So I place this book in figuring out how to get to a and b as it’s really more “How to be a good person 101” which is not helpful for many single women who are great people and simply haven’t found the right person yet. There’s more to finding the right mate than being a good person, namely practical action. Unfortunately “Why You Aren’t Married Yet” fails to consider the other half of the equation.

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 dani-BBW Gotcha. Your points are well taken. One of the things that I really like about Chris' book Swirling is its more comprehensive, holistic approach to interracial dating and relationships. Great points!

R. Kamaria 854 pts

Hahahaha. Laughable. Yet funny. I was told for the first time last week that I'm SHALLOW and JUDGMENTAL by a guy I was dating. I had thought I found the one. Seriously. We were going out for several months and had the best dates and never got physical. Things were perfect, then he told me he takes meds for bipolar disorder. I didn't say anything at the time. I later told him that it freaked me out and my heart sank, yet I still valued his friendship and like spending time with him. Long story short, he sent me a barrage of messages saying how he felt judged and that I'm shallow and he never wants to see me again. Wow. Perhaps that was the manic side coming out. So maybe I'm not married because I'm shallow. Oh well. I'll stay unmarried. 

Toni_M 18852 pts moderator

 R. Kamaria Sorry things didn't work out.

R. Kamaria 854 pts

 Toni_M Thanks for your condolences. lol. I'm more sorry that he was diagnosed with BPD. I just got out of a relationship with a guy with social anxiety disorder. Not trying to go down that road again. 

Oneof thegirls 214 pts

 R. Kamaria omg...funny how you meet that type again.

R. Kamaria 854 pts

 Oneof thegirls IKR. I'm like WTH? I must have some inner child work to do around "fixing" people. I DONT want to fix anyone universe. I want a man who is mentally stable, sane and conscious! Perhaps because my mom is kinda mental and my dad had addiction issues which resulted in his death. But I swear I've recognized these things and don't need to fulfill this crap. I'm working really hard at being who I want. Perhaps there's some 10 year rule or something. lol

tracyreneejones 3578 pts

Great break down of the book. Sounds interesting to interested parties... I'll pass...*files nails* 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Niobe Am I correct in thinking that is the reason you believe you're not married? That is a point very worthy of consideration and examination.

 

Niobe 23 pts

 ASwirlGirl I think its a big part of the reason. I can meet men but soon the phone calls taper off or the guy's interest wanes. Some disclosure here, I'm new to swirling and in the past it was black males that found me to be uninteresting. I have found that I have easy conversations with white guys. I could theorize as to why, but suffice it to say, I am thinking that my perceived awkwardness in the black community will be accepted/welcomed in a non-BC.

 

In another odd twist, my mother told me (and my sisters) when I was a teenager to date white guys because she felt that BM would not appreciate me (us). How right she was.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Niobe Do the phone calls taper off because you run out of things to say, or because you two don't have/anything in common? I'm not trying to be simplistic; just want to get a better feel for what you think is happening. What types of guys are you attracted to - or seem to attract?Something I've read on this blog is that often times men feel just as awkward and unsure, so don't beat yourself up about it.

 

 

I believe you're new to posting on the blog (WELCOME! As our dear Law Wanxi says, "Post more; lurk less!"). I'll try to find some links to past discussions that may prove helpful.

Niobe 23 pts

 ASwirlGirl  In the final analysis I guess it could be called "not much in common", but this is routine for me with BM. Also, although I'm far from a prude, there was this pressure of being a 'sex-kitten' all the time. It gets old....quick!  On a basic level, I like easy-going, intelligent men that aren't beholden to many of society's superficial standards. Unfortunately because of my dimensions I attract men that like the "big booty" type chicks. 

 

Yes I'm new to posting, thank you for the welcome!  Pretty much just lurk but I'll try and post more. 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Niobe Gotcha. My mantra for life is "This above all: to thine own self be true." You're right to not allow yourself to be pressured to be something you're not, or you're not feeling at the time. There's a man out there who will appreciate everything that is uniquely you.

 

Thanks for posting! Looking forward to interacting with you on the boards.

Morenika 839 pts

I thing you gave an excellent overview of the book.  Each point is something to think about.  I know that I am not messy, selfish or a bitch but I find myself wondering why the right person has not come along yet.  If I turn into a messy, selfish bitch, then I may have a new husband LOL....

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Morenika I know sometimes it may seem like women who are that way manage to get married - there's even a book about it by Sherry Argoy entitled "Why Men Love Bitches: From Doormat to Dreamgirl - A Woman's Guide to Holding Her Own in a Relationship." I understand not being a doormat, but a bitch? Naw . . . . .

 

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Love-Bitches-Relationship/dp/1580627560 

Oneof thegirls 214 pts

 ASwirlGirl Sometimes it just you haven't met what you are looking for. It's not always a particular personality that you lack.  I am done scrutinizing myself. I have changed some things about myself but some aspects of my personality I like. Most of the men I meet who are too aggressive, for instance, have no desire to change. Yet, I beat up on myself for smaller flaws.???----yeah right.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Oneof thegirls I understand. "Finding what you're looking for" works both ways. I'm glad you've reached the level of being comfortable with yourself. If you're not comfortable with yourself, how can you expect someone else to be comfortable? Relationships involve give and take, and they also largely involve acceptance, so neither party should beat themselves up (or be beaten up) for smaller flaws. I think the author wanted to make women aware of overreaching faults that may sabotage their dating success.   

Leona_LoveQuest 433 pts

I have to  wonder why this book isn't called "Why You're Not Married Anymore" or " Why Your Married and Miserable." I've met plenty of women who I would describe as a bitch, a dude, who hate themselves, are a mess, etc. that had no problems finding someone who would marry them. Sometimes it seems like men are more attracted to women that have some really major issues. As you may know, I'm all about introspection, so it always a good idea to take inventory, but sometimes you're not married just because you haven't met the right person yet. Sometimes the odds are just stacked against you.

Jamila 7221 pts moderator

"I've met plenty of women who I would describe as a bitch, a dude, who hate themselves, are a mess, etc."

 

She mentions women like that in the book. Yes, sometimes these women do get married. But look at their marriages...do their marriages look like the kind of marriage you want to have? Do the men who married them look like the kind of men you would want to marry you? There are exceptions to every rule, but it's called the rule for a reason. Overall, women who are a mess or a bitch do not have happy marriages, if they get married at all.

 

"Sometimes the odds are just stacked against you."

 

I'm not a believer in the odds being against anyone. As you have already noted, there are women who are bitchy, messy, crazy-as-all-hell, etc., yet these women are married. The odds were stacked against them too, but they still managed to get married. Whenever I hear someone say the odds are stacked against them I say 'then do what you need to do to make the odds more in your favor.'

ElfeV 7093 pts

 Jamila "....I say 'then do what you need to do to make the odds more in your favor.'"

 

Definitely!

Leona_LoveQuest 433 pts

 Jamila  Obviously those aren't marriages I wish to emulate, I was only stating that having personality flaws don't prevent a lot of women from getting married.

Hence why I was questioning the title of the book.

There are some odds that are more difficult to overcome than others. Because no one is perfect, I think people tend to be more forgiving of personality flaws. Some men seem particularly drawn to women that need more 'rescuing' than others. The profession I've chosen and the jobs and locations it has lead me to and now age and an extended single status are more difficult odds to overcome. There is also a smaller portion of men (that I've met) who are open to interracial dating or men of my race that are accepting of my cultural differences. I've been doing working on doing what I need to do to tip the odds in my favor, but it's no walk in the park.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Leona_LoveQuest Hi Leona! You stated, "sometimes you're not married just because you haven't met the right person yet." 

 

I've had this conversation with several friends who are in their 40's and yet unmarried. After introspection, EACH of them admitted that in retrospect, they had met guys who would have made good husbands - and passed them up for really frivolous reasons. Some women *have* met the right person, they just didn't take advantage of the opportunity.

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Leona_LoveQuest "...After introspection, EACH of them admitted that in retrospect, they had met guys who would have made good husbands - and passed them up for really frivolous reasons. Some women *have* met the right person, they just didn't take advantage of the opportunity."

 

I agree. In the aprx 10 years between my divorce & meeting my 2nd/current husband. There were 3 men i could've definitely made a decent life w/too(one proposed, one talked marriage a lot, & one was just the type, i could tell) but I didn't give them a chance for silly reasons. 

 

OTOH I also believe in fate to a certain extent...like sometimes you're just meant to be w/certain people for whatever reasons?

 

I still maintain that another reason that women who want to marry aren't is sheer numbers... they're not meeting enough new men to find that handful of compatible ones. I did a ton a platonic dating and really recommend it ~ whether it's set ups/matchmakers, speed dating/singles events, internet profiles, whatever.

 

It's not so much man-hunting & desperation, IMO, as it is intelligent *product placement*...lolz , unless you're really lucky, you just have to get out there to be spotted/hunted/pursued. LOL

 

Another important thing for the marriage-minded, IMO, is to approach it all in a more old-fashioned courtship & suitors POV. Some women get waaay over- involved with one guy too quickly and lose a lot of time.

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Elfe  Leona_LoveQuest "There were 3 men i could've definitely made a decent life w/too(one proposed, one talked marriage a lot, & one was just the type, i could tell) but I didn't give them a chance for silly reasons."

 

This is very similar to what my friends stated. When you say, "I also believe in fate to a certain extent...like sometimes you're just meant to be w/certain people for whatever reasons?" I guess I'd have to wonder, to pass those guys up, did you REALLY want to be married? I'm not talking about settling, but if they were perfectly marriageable guys, why not? Could that not have been "fate?" I guess what I'm saying is that some of what we call fate or look for as fate is really opportunities we can make for ourselves. Interesting! What are your thoughts??? 

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Leona_LoveQuest 

 

that's a tough one: I guess a huge part of it was not wanting to get married again just yet. Also being still really immature and vulnerable to other ppls' opinions ( I had a 'friend' from childhood who would constantly comment on the guys I dated:  age"too old", height or build"kinda short..kinda tall/thin", demeanor" too quiet")

 

...i had to cut her loose around the time i started seeing my husband, she said he was 'too young' LOL but by then I was on to her pattern of shooting down every guy i found attractive. She'd become a drag in a lot of other ways too but that's another story.

 

re fate, yeh, that's why i said 'to a certain extent.' I think it depends on what you want in life at the time. Sometimes it's things that you have in common that feel like destiny...not like the "Oh you like Pop Tarts too? wow" but deeper things. ...sometimes it's that you compliment each other in the ways you're different?... *having trouble explaining.* lolz

 

Could also be a matter of varying degrees and combinations of compatibility, attraction etc with different men: For instance you might have 30 coffee dates and be generally compatible & somewhat attracted with say 7 to 5 of them,

 

of those yr very compatible and mutually attracted to 3...

 

but only very compatible and mutually wildly attracted to 1? dunno if that makes sense.

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Elfe  With a friend like that, you didn't need an enemy! o__0

 

I understand what you're saying about how you can whittle your selection down from 7, to 5, to 3, to 1 man, yet I have to say that I think that all along you're making choices and not leaving things up to "fate." For example, a wide range of people subscribe to the BBW Facebook page/blog, comment on threads, etc. Two people can "meet" each other on the blog, and then *decide* to get to know one another better, pursue a relationship, etc. Was that "fate," or was it just a matter of deciding to take advantage of the opportunities presented and acting on them? I just have a problem with the concept of "fate" because I think it makes people lazy; they leave things to fate rather than taking an active role in their lives and happiness. 

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl "yet I have to say that I think that all along you're making choices and not leaving things up to "fate." For example, a wide range of people subscribe to the BBW Facebook page/blog, comment on threads, etc. Two people can "meet" each other on the blog, and then *decide* to get to know one another better, pursue a relationship, etc. Was that "fate," or was it just a matter of deciding to take advantage of the opportunities presented and acting on them?"

 

http://goo.gl/9hziK

 

LOL! Seriously that's an excellent question that I don't have the answer to(for me that gets into mysteries of fate/destiny, free will, law of attraction)

 

...However, I really believe in a woman keeping/getting her mind & body into the best shape possible and dating lots & lots of men(platonically) until a quality one proves himself better than the others and most serious about building a life w/ her(through his actions).

 

...BTW, I think that there are many possible 'The Ones' out there. There are lots of people on the planet.

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Elfe That gif cracks me up every time I see it! LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

I'm totally with you on becoming our best self and keeping our options open. Discussing the mysteries of fate and destiny can cause us to wade into some deep water; I believe and agree that it's not all cut and dried. I also believe that more than one man can be "The One" because I believe love is a choice. Great convo! ;-)

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Leona_LoveQuest 

 

note: I realized that I've been saying 'platonic'  when what I really mean is chaste/celibate (or relatively chaste/celibate).

 

 

Leona_LoveQuest 433 pts

 ASwirlGirl Well I can honestly tell you that I've never turned down any potential proposals. I've met some men that I would have liked to have married, but they never asked. Trust me, if I met  the right person, I would have said yes.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Leona_LoveQuest Not to belabor the point, but out of the guys you've met, have there been none who, if YOU had been more open, more receptive, etc., a relationship with them would have progressed to their asking for marriage? You stated that you met some men that *you* would have liked to marry - what about the men who met and would have wanted to marry you??? Did you give them a decent chance?

 

Let me give you an example: I had a friend in college named Dennis Santana (he was Puerto Rican). He was a great guy with a great future, and really liked me. We went out on platonic dates in college, and even went out a few times after we graduated. I have NO doubt in my mind that if I had been more open and receptive to him as a boyfriend or mate, the relationship would have taken the normal progression and we'd be married right now. He was open for it; I was not. 

 

McMillan talked about three categories we put men in: (1) Hello no, (2) Hell yes, and (3) Hmmm, I wonder?  I liked Dennis as a person, but said "No" to the idea of having him as a mate.  Yet, he was a great guy and a great catch. He went on to have a fantastic career and is doing extremely well. 

ElfeV 7093 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Leona_LoveQuest "...(1) Hello no, (2) Hell yes, and (3) Hmmm, I wonder?  I liked Dennis as a person, but said "No" to the idea of having him as a mate.... "

 

That's how I felt about one of the aforementioned guy and plus I'd probably would've ended up living in New York(not for me) and in a more religious environment. I can see that could've been a mixed bag situation. He was really cool and smart as heck so maybe it would've been a different sort of fate. I'm sure he's made some gal super happy.

 

....The other guy was much older so there would've been looming that I'd be widowed earlier(but really who knows who'll die first ultimately, right), it would've been a more settled PBS-ish kinda life..LOL but still it could have been really decent. He had dual-citizenship and was well-off, nice-looking for his age, intelligent guy, great sense of humour, divorced with 1 kid from that marriage IIRC. I'm sure someone snapped him up.

 

 ...3rd guy, At the time, I couldn't get around his profession(nothing illegal or anything but just.. i dunno, my nerves would've been fried), he was very attractive but only medium smart...I'm sure he found someone too.

 

FTR, I'm no raving Cleopatra/Helen of Troy beauty... I just sort of hit the ground dating after my divorce... it wasn't really out of loneliness or in search of sexcapades..i just sensed that I'd have to sort through a lot of guys to find ones that I liked and that would be good for me.

 

You know how Law Wanxi Wanxi says "Post more, lurk less"...my idea for singles is to "Date More, Whine Less" lolz

 

 

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Elfe  Leona_LoveQuest  Law Wanxi I was young and stupid; the main thing that made me not take Dennis seriously was the fact that he was Puerto Rican. SMH at me! He was a GREAT guy, lots of fun, smart as a whip (he's a CPA and an attorney), and boyishly handsome in a rakish kind of way. He was even my favored height and body type! He wound up marrying a White girl (I guess he was determined to swirl; we graduated from a HBCU). They had a couple of kids and divorced after about 10 years. He eventually married a BW and from what I understand, they've made a wonderful life for themselves. 

Leona_LoveQuest 433 pts

 ASwirlGirl It's not that I'm trying to blame everyone else for why I am still single. I understand my part in it, but it really has little to do with passing up guys that would have been good marriage material. Sure, some guys had expressed interest that I was not attracted to and now they are married with families. I am happy that they found the right person. I'm not sure how long you should give someone a chance when there is no attraction, After a couple of dates it just gets awkward. If you can't start a relationship with someone you are excited about spending time with, it's probably not going to get any better.

I do admit I have a problem with attracting and engaging commitment-phobes. They've all been great, interesting and successful men I would have considered marrying, but they were not looking for long-term relationships when we met, or at least not with me.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Leona_LoveQuest Gotcha! I've been an avid reader of your series, and you've been very transparent about your dating life. I also recall a conversation in the thread about the pros and cons of "chemistry" which I suppose is what you didn't experience with the "good" guys you passed on. The concept of chemistry is also worthy of scrutiny, as is the whys and wherefores of attracting commitment-phobes. You've given me some good food for thought.

Alana 2 387 pts

 Leona_LoveQuest I think for some women, more than others, the question is: What are you willing to sacrifice for love? I know a single woman over 30 who either works at home or travels for her job. She also lives in a region where many of her peers are married. If you are a woman who works long hours or has to travel frequently, you may have more difficulty meeting and getting to know someone. There are couples I have met who live apart, but it seems like most of them met before graduate school or work made these demands of them.   There are men who are ok with such an arrangement, but who knows where to find them? Does it make sense for a woman to quit her job to move to an IR friendly area?

 

my point: As a person living in a midwestern city that is not Chicago, I hear you. I am not seriously looking despite being over 30 because I don't want to live here the rest of my life and finding a man who is willing to move for his woman is a challenge. Nobody knows the future, but it's easier to find a man if you're a teacher or a nurse, compared to a woman with a job that requires frequent travel.

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Alana 2  Leona_LoveQuest I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

I personally would view traveling would provide MORE opportunities to meet men! LOL

 

Traveling would give me the freedom to meet men beyond the borders of my city or state. I'd get a membership to the Admiral's club (this is what American Airlines offers; I don't know what they're called on the other airlines) and work in there in between flights. You can also get upgrades to first class, or just chat up nice fellows you meet in coach. Then there are restaurants, other business people in the hotel . . . .I'm one of those people who don't meet strangers, so maybe it's a personality thing. 

Leona_LoveQuest 433 pts

 Alana 2  Funny you should say that because I am a teacher as well. The teaching jobs I was able to get took me to small towns where most of the men were already married. I really do think it's a matter of putting yourself in a place where there are a lot of eligible men to choose from who are actually at a point in their lives when they are looking to settle down and start families.

R. Kamaria 854 pts

 Leona_LoveQuest Leona, I think this is the best answer and you didn't have to write a book and be thrice divorced. Whoom there it is. 

cns 702 pts

 

Hey I noticed you referred to Tracy as Terry, but don't feel bad when I saw her book on another blog the commenters had made the same mistake. It was kind of funny reading the comments from people who actually thought she was the other writer Terry McMillian. LOL.

Toni_M 18852 pts moderator

Just looking at the reasons listed make me know that there are people having conniptions over this. I've seen women play out relationships in manners suggested in certain chapters (bitch, mess, crazy) and it did not work out well.

 

I think it's really easy to assume this book is blaming you for having these characteristics rather than see it as honest introspection of ways of thinking and behaving that CAN be changed.

 

 

 

One thing that stood out to me was the chapter "you're godless" and what was said in the summary:  

 

"Women who are “godless” make a man their “source.” Placing this level of importance on men scares them and thus causes them to run in the opposite direction. Bottom line: The status you would normally give to a “higher power” should not be attached to your relationship or your man."

 

Not always. Men who are and feel powerless would relish the opportunity to be "worshiped" by a woman who doesn't know any better. Practical men with a healthy sense of self and human relationships would run in the opposite direction, but this observation gives far too much credit to men unanimously; never underestimate a predator making the most of troubled women.

 

 

It sounds like an interesting book. Thanks for the review!

 

 

ASwirlGirl 3035 pts

 Toni_M Toni, you make a great point about the fact that some men DO want to be worshiped. McMillan states that "No guy wants to be with a woman who will do ANYTHING to be with him" - and as you stated, this is simply not true. The key takeaway I received from this chapter was for the woman to focus on herself and her approach to men, that a woman not be so desperate that she makes men her "god" and does not seek her entire validation from a man or from being in a relationship. What often happens is that desperate meets wanna-be-worshiped, all to the woman's detriment.