Author Says Organized Religion Has It All Wrong

Pearl No, but now I want to check it out.

PearlFefe32

Nothing wierd about it, Pearl God, as Creator, is in and of everything he/she/it created.

"You will not find me in mansions of wood and stone, but in everything around you and within you. Split a piece of wood, and you will find me; pick up a stone, and i am there." Gospel of Thomas, reported to be Jesus' teachings directly to Thomas in person.

This work was intentionally not chosen by the Constantine council in what? the second century, if memory serves, because by itself, those two verses could have kept the churches from amassing the power they have historically had.

Yeah, my need to believe in a God faded so slowly that I can't even pinpoint exactly when I stopped believing. I felt guilt at first, because of the way I was raised, but now I feel at peace.

The Universe is God. We are the Universe. We are God. Everything in the Universe is God. This is what know. Oh' and you're not a weirdo. I read your comments. Your wiser than the average teen. The average adult, even. If that make you weird, then it's a good kind of weird.

I know about the whole morals thing! I don't believe in God. I don't believe is the bible as the word of God. The bible has a lot of good points, but so do many other religious texts. When I tell some people this they look at me like I just great two more heads right before their very eyes lol! I don't talk to my relatives about my beliefs. A lot of them would disown me if they knew. Or try to convert me. Even though I'm a good person, that's not good enough. I have to be "god- fearing".

Pearl

Hi Pearl! I replied to your comment, but it didn't post as a reply to you. :(

It's two posts down the line. Sorry.

Fefe32 I mean, I believe that Jesus Christ did exist but I'm not sure what else. I don't take everything in the bible literally because there is a lot of crazy and outdated stuff.. I starting watching this Christian video about the prophecy being fulfilled on youtube last night. There are signs of the "last days" but I don't think it will be any time soon. I hate when they try to scare people with that stuff. I also don't know if they meant the literal ending of the world (or just the world as we know it... or literally the last days. I think the "last days" may be a metaphor for the last couple of hundred years. I hope so anyway lol. I'm not one of those people who blindly follow religion. I guess I was beat over the head with it too much growing up (there was no way I was allowed to miss a Sunday at church!) As many of you know, coming from a black family/ black church that can automatically make you an outcast. Most people who are extremely religious are the biggest hypocrites alive.

I guess I'm an open minded Christian with some Agnostic views. I guess I'm still developing my faith. How do we really know what happens after we die? I kind of just wish someone could come back from the dead and tell us so we could settle this once and for all lol.

@MySmile, I wish I knew what was on the other side too. I'm not afraid of death or dying. I used to be when I was younger. I feel like I've evolved. I do want to live a long, full, and happy life.

I guess if we were supposed to know (or remember, perhaps?) how we got here and what's on "the other side", we would know. I believe we (living beings) are here because at some level we wanted to be. I can't explain how it happened, and none of us have any real proof of how it happened. I know that whatever is supposed to happen after I die, is going to happen. Have no control over it.

Fefe32 I'm still scared of death :-( I don't know how to stop being scared of it. I hate not having control over what happens. You're right though, some things we just aren't supposed to know. If we knew these things we would probably go crazy because of our knowledge. We probably wouldn't be able to live peacefully. Knowing or seeing certain things can put you at a disadvantage sometimes. I know some of the things I found out I wish I never found out lol.

MySmileFefe32 I think to some degree, most people are. Heck I am! I don't think people stop being scared until they're old. really old. Like 80+. This is the first time I've ever mentioned this publicly: My father, who died 2.5 years ago, did not fear death, but he was 86, getting sick and unable to be as active as he had been all his life. He never wanted to be a burden, and when I felt like he was...he sort of just...feel asleep. But I'll tell you this--people may think I'm crazy for saying this, but my father came to me in a dream after he died, when my youngest daughter was fighting for her life in the hospital. You see, she had been born 13 weeks early, the same month my father died. The stress of the loss caused me to have a massive infection and I was forced to deliver. The Babster needed not one, but two spinal taps. My dad "told" me--I put that into quotes because I never saw his lips move; it's as if he was speaking to me mind-to-mind, and he told me, despite the doctor's concerns, that Emma was 100% perfect. At the time, I thought I was just grief-stricken and it was all in my mind. Until test, after test, after test came back negative. Every scan was perfect, despite being on a ventilator for TWO WEEKS, she had not a scar on her lungs, and the MRI showed a perfect, health brain.

There IS life after death.

Christelyn MySmile This doesn't sound crazy to me at all. I've had experiences like that where I "dream" of someone who's passed and they communicate with me. Some of them were people I knew and others were people I'd never met before (relative who died before I was born, etc.). It's funny, because I have an aunt who is VERY Catholic, but she's had similar experiences of dreaming of passed relatives, and future events that indeed eventually happened!

I'm glad your daughter turned out okay. I believe that was your dad. My grandma and my cousin came to me in dreams after they died. They communicated with me in a similar way. Like we were talking with our minds, and feeling each others feelings. Very strange, but cool at the same time.

MySmile For me it (loss of fear) happened when I started reading about the experiences of people who almost died. So many people with similar experiences. There's got to be something to it beyond the scientific "explanations". These "explanations" don't fully explain everything about these types of experiences. It made me less worried somehow.

Fefe32MySmile Fefe--Wow it so cool to know that other people have had these experiences too!

Christelyn MySmile It really is.

Fefe32 I wish I could get over my worry and fear :-( I'll try to do some reading too but it will probably make me even more scared.

Christelyn Fefe32 Wow, that's amazing that your daughter was okay. I never knew you went through all that to have your daughter. :-( She looks really healthy. You should put more family pictures up! My mom told me something similar happened to her too (her deceased father speaking to her in a dream). I guess it's more common than we think. I've never had it happen to me though. I . Do you think there is a heaven and hell? I wonder if they are physical places or just a state of mind. That's the part that really confuses me. We may never know that one.

MySmile I believe in heaven and hell on earth. I don't believe that any of us came from evil, and I don't believe any of us are destined to evil for eternity (Hell). I don't believe our creator will punish us for being imperfect, but I do believe that EVERYTHING we do will come back to us. I believe in "Heaven", but not in the way that most people do. I don't believe that heaven is a physical place, because we don't need a physical body after we "die".

About being scared, that might be you're initial feeling after doing some readings on these types of things. But as time progresses and you read more, you might feel differently.

... and I consider my existence to be more spiritual than religious. I think that religion is humanity's interpretation of God and his expectations.

dani-BBW I think that we can definitely argue whether or not certain practices, such as catching the spirit or other practices are in line with the Bible, but I think it's a lot harder to pin down religion itself (or one particular faith) as being any more full of bs than the others. I think they all contain a lot of truth, but it's figuring out what is true and what isn't and trying to interpret it all that becomes difficult. Also, there is the science aspect that is constantly confirming or proving false the things we thought we knew for sure to be true or to be not true.

SirLoinDeBeef

+1

Faith is like food, Holy writ is like a grocery store and Orrganized Religion is like a restaurant. Lots of people around the world manage to eat well without ever going to a restaurant.

Law WanxiSirLoinDeBeef There's a difference between small c "church," which I take to mean a physical building and between big c "Church" which I take to mean 'the body of believers'.

While I do think that it's possible to be spiritually grounded without ever stepping foot into a building a cross on the front of it, I think that we do need to be around other believers of our faith on a consistent basis--like a Bible study or group meeting at home.

JamilaLaw WanxiSirLoinDeBeef Not to upset you or the other members of this board, but I want to repeat the words of the song I re-composed (to an existing music).

At my daughter's urging (some years ago) I attended a Bible study group at her house, with her husband and his 'roadies' present - An Assembly-of-God church.

Aapparently, when I made a single positive statement concerning Darwin, the following happened:

I’m called REP-robate, by the church-folk and their leader;

I’m called REP-robate, predestined to be Damned;

I’m called REP-robate, unworthy of Salvation;

God’s judgment reserved, but forced by man.

I thought I’d found … some answers to my questions;

Prayer group and quiet talk, dissent welcomed and allowed.

But sent to Hell and turned to stone, ‘fore Christ’s Gestapo let me go;

Held me down an’ prayed on, like a beast!

Not to mention having my feet kicked out from under me - being held down to the floor by 4 strong young men - spit upon and repeatably hit over the head, face and neck by several heavy Bibles - call everything but a Child-of-God - listening as one man was detailed to guard the door, to prevent my escape - kneed and kicked (including genitally) - and ultimately, with strong hands squeezing around my neck, forced to say things that I did not believe and falsely swear things I would never have done, just be allowed to leave.

Christian Gestapo, indeed!

My daughter was in another room at the time, but, later, sanctioned my treatment ... because, as an Agent-of-Satan, I 'deserved' it.

And, yet, when she was in need, in her divorce & re-marriage, I was there for her ... $$, transportation, support ... whole 9 yards.

SirLoinDeBeef Hey, my man! You just described the problem with religion which was the motivation for me writing my book! Check out my Youtube video, "Why It Should Be About Love, Not Religion: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PShFM184HhE&context=C360333fADOEgsToPDskJh2v0hQCZ0A0l1SiTltJs1

Brenda55 Brenda, you have the right, positive mind frame! The only reason I discuss the afterlife is because I know it is something other people want to discuss. In my opinion, if you're worried about the afterlife, then you aren't enjoying your life right now! If we die and that is it, then I'll be cool with that. If you strive everyday to live in love and reach your full potential then you'll have no regrets!

Shay Dawkins "If you strive everyday to live in love and reach your full potential then you'll have no regrets!"

I remember Carl Sagan saying that we are made of "star stuff". I read that to mean that we are a part of the universe, part of the natural world we are just matter, living matter but matter just the same. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It just changes form.

Every thing on earth, the earth itself as well as universe has a life-span and will cease to exist in its current form. We, living being that we are, will just die and return to that from which we came.

Brenda55Shay Dawkins "Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It just changes form."

Energy, not matter, is that which cannot be created or destroyed.

JamilaShay Dawkins

Just a quick and dirty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

Brenda55Shay Dawkins

Yes, I understand, but there is only a conservation of mass in a closed system, such as when you are in lab doing an experiment. The universe itself is not a "closed" system; earth isn't even a closed system--we receive an input of energy from the sun to keep the system going. When the sun stops, all live on earth will cease to exist.

From Wikipedia: The law of conservation of mass, also known as the principle of mass/matter conservation, states that the mass of an isolated system (closed to all matter and energy) will remain constant over time".

and

"In special relativity, the conservation of mass does not apply if the system is open and energy escapes. However, it does continue to apply to totally closed (isolated) systems. If energy cannot escape a system, its mass cannot decrease. While any type of energy is retained in a system in relativity, this energy exhibits mass."

The universe is constantly expanding, but what is it expanding into? What exists outside of the universe?

Or think about how stars die. How does an object the size of a star shrink to the size of less than a pinpoint of light--which is what scientists say happens when a star dies--if mass is conserved? This should be impossible if mass is always maintained.

I think that there is a convergence between science and spirituality that is taking place in the world. I am very interested in the work of the Jesuit Priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who I think touches on this convergence of science and spirituality/God in his work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin

Jamila

Jamila – have you seen the Genesis Code? It’s about the creation account in Genesis and the theory of relativity. You seem pretty science oriented (which I am not), I think you’d like the movie. It should be coming out on DVD soon.

JamilaShay Dawkins

Again keeping it simple.

http://www.uvm.edu/~cmehrten/courses/earthhist/Earth%20Closed%20System.pdf

Brenda55Shay Dawkins OK :)

JamilaBrenda55Shay Dawkins

At the heart of the matter, we are all energy, Jamila. Break it down into the atoms of which we're all comprised. Electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, it's all manifestations of energy.

Brenda55

"I like the fact that the author read the word himself and studied it to make up his own mind and judgement about what he has read instead of listing to some self appointed gate keeper interpret the word for you and tell you what to think."

That's what it's really all about, Brenda. My teacher always said, "Don't believe me, try it for yourself, see if it works." To me, that is a real teacher of Truth.

Jamila Good question. Perhaps Shay should come on here and defend his positions.

Jamila I love your healthy scepticism.

It shouldn't be about someone pre-chewing for me. I'd rather read the Bible itself than have someone pre-chew. How different is he than a church?

Jamila

Jamila, I totally agree with you in that people should read the Bible for themselves and decide for themselves as this is what I have done. For the record, I have hundreds of Biblical instances backing my message (Jesus's original message) up. For over the last 7 years, I've researched the Bible with no pre-determined set of beliefs unlike most preachers who are told what to believe in seminary school.

Jesus didn't want "Jesus chanters." Jesus wanted people to live his message of LOVE.

John 15: (10, 12, 14, 17)

10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my LOVE

12My command is this: LOVE each other as I have loved you.

14You are my friends if you do what I command.

17This is my command: LOVE each other

John 13: 35

35By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have LOVE for one another.

God is Love

1 John 4: (7-8, 16)

7Dear friends, let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

16GOD IS LOVE. WHOEVER LIVES IN LOVE LIVES IN GOD, and God in him

Matthew 5: 9

9Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God

Galatians 5: (6, 14, 22-23)

6The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love

14For ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED IN ONE WORD (LOVE), even in this; Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,23Meekness, temperance (self-control): AGAINST such THERE IS NO LAW.

Jesus came to show us how to live a life RIGHT NOW of happiness, peace, and joy!

John 10: 10

10I have come so that they may have LIFE (spiritual life), LIFE (happiness, joy, etc.) more abundantly.

Shay Dawkins You keep repeating Scripture that contains the word "love" but you failed to provide the Scripture that defines what love is (1 Cor 13:4). And you have not differentiated between the types of love used in the Bible and when each type is referred to (phileo, eros, apape, etc.,)

Agape, which is the type of love that is most often used when it is God/Jesus speaking, is a type of love that is not based on feelings, but is meant to describe a more encompassing type of love than phileo ("brotherly" love) or "eros" (passionate love).

Jamila Yeah, I know about the different types of love, but I'll make it as simple as I can from the verse you mentioned (1 Corithians 13).

A person with love WILL BE: patient, kind, gentle

A person with love WILL NOT BE: envious, boastful, rude, easily angered

This verse describes someone who lives in the Spirit of LOVE:

Galatians 5: (22-23)

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,23Meekness, temperance (self-control): AGAINST such THERE IS NO LAW

These 2 verses describe someone who does NOT live in LOVE (a person "living in the flesh").

Romans 1: (28-31) NIV

28And because they had not the mind to keep God in their knowledge, God gave them up to an evil mind, to do those things which are not right; 29Being full of all wrongdoing, evil, desire for the goods of others, hate, envy, putting to death, fighting, deceit, cruel ways, evil talk, and false statements about others; 30Hated by God, full of pride, without respect, full of loud talk, given to evil inventions, not honoring father or mother, 31Without knowledge, not true to their undertakings, unkind, having no mercy: 32Who, though they have knowledge of the law of God, that the fate of those who do these things is death, not only go on doing these things themselves, but give approval to those who do them.

Ephesians 4: 31 KJV

31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

That is about as simple as I can make it and I hope that helps!

Jamila, I have more information on my blog and YouTube Videos. The links are on my website (www.thegoodnewsbook.com).

sparel I believe in God. No doubt. I do find organize religion to be largely distasteful.