It’s Time to Talk About the Fathers of the Children Born Out-of-Wedlock

It’s Time to Talk About the Fathers of the Children Born Out-of-Wedlock

I’ve come to the conclusion that perhaps the only way to help lower income women is to help lower income men. You see, it seems that no matter what, women will have children with whomever is available for them to have children with. And if the only men in neighborhood are the type of men who dream of becoming rappers and/or already have a baby mamma or two ’round the way, then those are the men that those women will procreate with.

Author : Jamila Akil

Author's Website | Articles from

The Situation

It’s easy to jump on the women who have out-of-wedlock babies with losers who don’t pay child support and have no intention on ever marrying the mother’s of their children. And it’s easy to jump on women because at the end of the day it’s the women who have the finaly say on whether or not a child will be born and into what circumstances. Birth control is readily available and subsidized by the state for poor women; abortion is legal and the cost is also subsidized by the states through the Medicaid program. The only reason a woman in the USA gives birth is because she has made the conscious decision to give birth–’giving it up to Jesus/God/the Holy Spirit’ is still a choice; to not decide is still a decision.

DeNILE Is Not in Egypt

In a New York Times article profiling two white women who are mothers, investigative journalist Jason DeParle points to the stark divide in quality of life between those who give birth while married and those who do not. One white woman–her name is Chris Faulkner–is married, has a college degree, and has plenty of help from her husband with taking care of their children. The result is that the children of this first woman live a comfortable middle class lifestyle with plenty of activities on the weekend. The second woman, Jessica Schairer, dropped out of college after becoming pregnant by her African-American boyfriend, who told her that they would get married when they could afford a big wedding and an extravagant dress for their nuptials. Years later, the wedding never happened and she found herself at 25 with 3 kids to raise on her own. Not surprisingly, the woman raising children on her own is stressed out, surviving with the help of food stamps, and her children are not in a bunch of extracurricular activities every weekend.

The woman who is struggling with 3 children is honest enough to admit that she made very bad choices. But where is the man who fathered her three children, a man she ‘barely’ talks to? Why isn’t he helping to raise the children he fathered?

Erin Gloria Ryan of Jezebel asks some obvious questions about just how much to blame the women who have children with absent fathers. What about the men?:

The Times piece also makes a few more points about how it sure sucks for low-income women when men act like scumbags without actually coming out and saying that men in at least some of these scenarios must be acting like scumbags — women without college degrees are more likely to have children with multiple men (or, alternately, men are more likely to bail on women without college degrees after they have kids with them), low-education women tend to have an unstable male presence in their home (or unstable men are more likely to glom on to low-educated women with kids), and children with absent fathers are more likely to get into trouble (or fathers who abandon their families are more likely to end up messing up their kids).

What Can Be Done

It’s easy to look at women Jessica Schairer and pile on–how could she be so stupid? Why did she keep having children with a man when she knew that they had relationship problems? Why didn’t Ms. Schairer think that getting married before giving birth was the ‘right’ thing to do, especially since she and her boyfriend planned on staying together for the long-term? But at this point, those types of question are neither here nor there. The children are born and Ms. Schairer is left to sleep in the bed that she made for herself.

Now is the time to wonder about men like the one who left Ms. Schairer holding the bag. These men have to be held responsible for the women they impregnanted and left; they have to be held responsible for the children they fathered and then abandoned. Children need their fathers; women need the men who impregnate them to help raise the babies that arrive after the sex act is over–after the thrill is gone.

I’ve come to the conclusion that perhaps the only way to help lower income women is to help lower income men. You see, it seems that no matter what, women will have children with whomever is available for them to have children with. And if the only men in the neighborhood are the type of men who dream of becoming rappers and/or already have a baby mamma or two ’round the way, then those are the men that those women will procreate with.

Our society is increasingly being stratified based on class. Upper-class men are partnering with their upper-class female counterparts, i.e., those who graduate from college are having kids with–and getting married to–other people who graduated from college. After the college educated men partner up with the college educated women, the college dropouts are partnering with the college dropouts. The wannabe rapper will partner up with girls who are still left in the neighborhood after the smart girls have gone off to college. Water seeks its own level.

If we want to ensure that more children are born within wedlock then something will have to be done to turn more lower class men into marriage material. Lower class men clearly want sex; lower class men clearly like kids. But lower class men don’t always have stable jobs to take care of the women who make the babies. So he says that he’ll marry the girl when he gets a good job and some money in his pocket, only the good job never arrives–he dropped out of college, remember? Or perhaps he never even went to college–and now he can’t take of the family that he helped to create. So he leaves. Abandoning the family you created may be less stressful than staying in a household where you can’t pay the bills and you don’t feel like a man because you can’t get or keep a job.

Men need help to become good husbands and fathers. In order to start lowering the out-of-wedlock birth rate and the poverty rate for black children, something is going to have to be done to help the men.

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Cocuya 107 pts

I agree with the genuine intent of this message, but it should not be directed toward black women. The people who need to be helping these men, in the absence of fathers, are other established black men NOT black women who already shouldering a huge burden as is. Perhaps NWNW should consider finding black male allies. (Of course, whenever these types of issues are brought to the attention of black men, it's taken as a general affront to black manhood.)

 

Maybe it's my age, maybe it's just me, but I'm not wasting my time trying to "uplift" any man--white, black, or otherwise--who doesn't already have it together (mentally and emotionally). Nope. Not going to do it. "Uplifting a brother" generally translates into supporting him financially and tolerating his shiftlessness and unwillingness to hustle. Unfortunately, this is a trap a lot of black women fall into. And, in doing so, we direct energy away from our own emotional and psychological growth and empowerment and allow these men to takes us down with them in the process.

 

As someone said below, character is not something your girlfriend or wife can give you. Furthermore, character has nothing to do with how much money you make.  So, it's also not about finding a rich man, per se. A  man can be poor and still be a person of excellent character who is invested in the well being of his children. Conversely, as someone also mentioned, a rich man with no character will also skirt his responsibilities toward his family. It's not my responsibility to teach a man to support his family. I can't even imagine having enough respect for a man to be in a relationship with him if I had to TEACH him something as basic as being a decent human being who cares for the children he brings into the world.

 

In the meantime, I will direct my energy toward empowering black women, starting first with myself.

MommyTRex2010 171 pts

I think it comes down to standards and expectations. and I dont think alot of bw/bm take sex seriously. This oow situation is what happens when expectations are not put to people and when folks dont have standards. People dont have the important conversations like, what birth control will you be using?, what are our plans for the future?, what will happen if I accidently get pregnant?, its a  "I want it now" attitude and its putting the bc in jeopardy. People get pregant on purpose, when you dont care to use birth control your planning to get pregant, its just that simple. BM need to be held to a standard and right now the standard is being a baby daddy and having a crap load of kids.

 

I was married for 7 years and I was with my ex for about 5 yrs before that. He and I decided that we did not want to have a baby before we were married, and we actually sat down and talked about it. When I was younger I had  problems with self esteem but I did my damn best   not to get pregnant. Why? I could not provide ANYTHING to a child, nothing. I felt it would be worse to bring a child into the world that I could not provide for, and  could not give anything to I felt like it would be cruel and stupid. . And I could forecast that the father would not plan on being involved. When I was with my ex I did have grown people asking when I was having a child. Not when I was planning on getting married first or did I plan to buy a house or go back to school but the main question was about children. Now I have a daughter and her father and I are not together but he has a relationship with my daughter.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

If Black women avoided fatherless men altogether they would lower their chances of being left to raise an OOW child alone. Men with good fathers tend to want to be good fathers. Men without fathers often don't see what difference it makes if their children grow up without them. After all, they "turned out fine". NOT!

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@AndreaLThorsen I always avoided men w/ no fathers, that should be basic vetting for most women.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 eugeniaberg   AndreaLThorsen I think so too, but not everyone agrees. One commenter, on my last post about the subject, thinks that it's "generalizing" to avoid fatherless men. I believe that no one is obligated to be fair when it comes to who they allow into their love lives. Being a part of someone else's personal life is not a right, it's a privilege.

You can read the comments here: http://blackfemaleculture.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/limit-personal-drama-by-avoiding-fatherless-men/

I was surprised that a woman her age would feel this way. I usually hear the "You've gotta be fair and give everybody a chance" speeches from people my age and younger. Most of the women I know over 50 do not think that way at all.

WendyLBarber 175 pts

Wow! Another slippery slope. The men should be shamed a lot by other men. But where are the other men who are doing what they're supposed to be doing? Working, getting educated to some degree and not dreaming of being a rapper or ball player, being supportive of the woman in their lives, taking on responsibilities of being an adult and not passing the buck and blaming someone else for their failings or lack of whatever. The responsibility seems like it may land in women's laps, again. Where will the male teachers come from to teach them how to be one of character and take care of children you help bring into the world.

 

Okay, I'm off my box.

tonyrog 119 pts

 WendyLBarber That idea was gone 40 yrs ago. I am a 77 yr old wm and in my days in the 50 most fathers taught their sons if you get a girl pregnant that's your and you better get down to the court house and get a license.This applied to all fathers of all races. We also had the shotgun weddings. After the 70's things seem to go downhill. Nowdays couples of all races think that shaking up is the norm. My 2 cents worth.

tonyrog 119 pts

 WendyLBarber left out the word wife "that is your wife"

R. Kamaria 854 pts

Not defending anything or making excuses, but perhaps the NWNW campaign isn't reaching some because cohabitating black couples don't see the overall benefits of marriage. At least that's what this MSU study implies. I can see how this probably is the case, but I think I'll pass. lol. 

 

EAST LANSING, Mich. — Black people who are married don’t appear to live any longer than black couples who simply live together, suggesting marriage doesn’t boost longevity for blacks the way it does for whites, according to a large national study led by Michigan State University.

http://news.msu.edu/story/marriage-has-different-meanings-for-blacks-and-whites/

 

Toni_M 18978 pts moderator

 R. Kamaria  The thing of it is, this study only really looks at mortality rates. It doesn't examine quality of life and the implied "value differences" don't focus on child bearing or rearing or sociological impact on the couple, their children, grandchildren, etc.

 

the word "co-habitate" is also a bit deceptive. You still expect the persons to be "equally" yoked. How many black women are "co-habitating" with someone who doesn't pay bills, have a job, but expects her to supply him with money and often uses her car to get around (not bothering to put gas in? Meanwhile I recall reading that in some places (Denmark, I believe?), it's not at all unusual for the mother and father of a child to not be married but raising their children together.

 

Also, co-habitation is non-contractual, so it's hard to track how often these couples break up and persons move on to cohabiting with other people. There is a noted lack of stability in these situations where it is not MUTUALLY understood in all sincerity that the relationship is basically an unofficial marriage. Especially where black couples are concerned. As the article said, white couples are more likely to treat it as a trial marriage. "Trial" implying that if things work out, they move on to the next stage. So at least the idea of being married is somewhere in the picture. Black couples? A black woman will sit on the "M" word because God forbid she scare the man away. Though a pregnancy might do that for her.

 

And on that note, I'm curious about how pregnancy figures into cohabitation patterns:

 

- Is the man more or less likely to stick around in a situation where they are co-habitating  and the woman becomes pregnant? 

 

- Does the race, ethnicity, and culture of the man play a part in his response?

 

- If a man was socialized to marry and raise children, but chose to co-habitate with his significant other, will a pregnancy change his point of view about co-habitation and make him desire to marry the mother or at least be part of the child's life? Will a man NOT being socialized to believe in marriage or child-rearing consider marriage? Will he be more likely to decide NOT to co-habitate as a result?

 

 

Co-habitation where the man is equally responsible for the child is not unheard of. But I just feel that black women are not in a position today where they can afford to tell themselves that living with a black man is "good enough". Because while individual circumstances may vary, I have a hard time believing that pathology would exist in a system of pointed non-marriage by black men where children are more than likely to be happily and readily abandoned. 

 

This comment though has inspired me to write something though. And thanks very much for sharing, it's given me a lot to think about.

dasdbobb 1383 pts

 Toni_M  R. Kamaria

 You're not working on your book Toni............Still waiting.  LOL

dasdbobb 1383 pts

 R. KamariaYou will notice that the BM who have dreams of playing ball be it baseball, football or basket ball, all have one thing in common.  They all have a HS diploma, and are going/have gone to college. Sometimes even on a scolarship.  I'm not saying they're in the top 10% of their classes, but have the drive and guts to see it thru.  This to me anyway shows character and a sense of responsibility. (sorry for the typos.)

 
MixedUpInVegas 1654 pts

As much as it would serve them right, I cannot agree with the idea of a mandatory vasectomy as a solution to any problem.  For one thing, it is probably unconstitutional to force someone to have an invasive medical procedure that will render them sterile; for another, it is simply draconian.

 

Helping men with the idea that the benefits will somehow "trickle down" to women and children doesn't sound reasonable to me.  That old "trickle down" economic theory doesn't work all that well--if the rich have money, they can just as easily choose not to spend it, thus no "trickle"; if men have money, what makes you think they will give it to their baby mammas and kids?  Besides, men can lift themselves up the same way women do--learn to do something that business will pay you to do.  As long as they can camp out at Mamma's house rent-free and hang on the street with their crew, creating litter, noise and harrassment for productive passersby en route to gainful employment, that's just what they will do.  The path of least resistance is always the easiest road to tread.

 

Uplifting women is the more direct path to uplifting her children.  Women are the ones left holding the bag.  Besides, we all know that BW have long since surpassed BM in terms of education and stable employment.  Leave them in the dust, if that's where they choose to be--but don't have kids with them!

dasdbobb 1383 pts

 MixedUpInVegas

For one thing, it is probably unconstitutional to force someone to have an invasive medical procedure that will render them sterile; It is.

 

 Back in the 50's they were doing this to BW and not telling then they did. I think it was one of the Carolinas, they have since stopped but that doesn.t help all the BW who couldn’t have kids. The case that brought this to mind was of a BD teen who was raped and made pregnant. Her Mom got her an abortion because it was rape, but the doctors cut and tied her tubes and didn’t tell her Mom. When this lady grew up, got married she tried to have kids, couldn't and another doctor told her about what happened after checking her out. This really bothered me, the state has agreed to make restitution, but is that enough?  Not in my book.  OK, I’m putting my box back into the corner for now.

cns 708 pts

 R. Kamaria  I agree with you on mandatory vasectomies, but I think it should be after one child. If a male cannot provide for one child then he should have the privilege to have others. I say 1 strike and your out when it comes to kids and thier protection.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 cns I thought I was among the few who felt this way. Good to know I am not. :)

BlackCherry 85 pts

H about just reproducing with your husband! What the hell ever happend to that? Remember when women got married first and then had kids? How about not having kids for men that we aren' t married to. This ain't rocket science. We do things in a systematic way for a reason. You don't put your shoes on first and then try to put your pants on over the shoes! You could do it that way but, it's going to be a hell of a lot more difficult. Are children are suffering because morality has taken a back seat to instant gradification. People only want to do what feels good for the moment but, never rhink about the aftermath. The children are the only losers in the game.

Lili2009 1827 pts

 BlackCherry Amen!!  I remember when I had my son almost three years ago. My younger cousin (twenty-something) chose to have a baby with some loser (who has other babies close in age, low to no income, etc.)  Naturally, she depends heavily on the marriage of her parents to support them. Anyway, she was surprised I went home after having the baby instead of staying at my parent's house to recuperate. I was confused and said, "well, no. My husband wouldn't be happy if I did that. He'd be lonely without us"  or something like that.  I then realized that it's SO common-place for black women to go it alone that she couldn't wrap her head around the fact that my husband was there to take care of me and the new baby. I remember thinking, wow, didn't even cross her mind that I was married.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 Lili2009  BlackCherry This does not surprise me. There is a lot of negative energy toward marriage by BW. And I was recently surprised by the caliber of BW who are willing to embrace this concept. These women are well educated, have great careers, and own their own homes. I suspect these women don't think that it will happen for them -- they tend to be nbbm women, so they make marriage something to be avoided and even looked down upon, so that they don't have to feel disappointed when it does not happen for them. Some claim that the nuclear family is destroying America. Seriously. Others even claim that BW are a special class of Human and are different from every other Human woman on the planet, and marriage is not for us for that reason. If it wasn't so sad I would LOL.

 

By embracing the notion that marriage is for everyone except BW, they create a future of singleness, OOW children, and the ever increasing dysfunction and violence that this breeds. We all create what we focus on, for better or worse.

Lili2009 1827 pts

 AndreaLThorsen Oh yes. My cousin is very much a nbbm woman (attracted only to black men and maybe to the drama associated with competing for a black man with other women) whereas I'm married to a white man and I depend on my marriage to support us instead of my parent's marriage. It really ticks me off how some of these "independent women" say they want their baby now but guess who's taking care of most of the childcare and financial support? The woman's parents (or mom or grandma). I have at least 2 female cousins who do this. 

R. Kamaria 854 pts

I don't know a solution. I feel bad that I can't add any reasonable solutions except castration. Okay I'm kidding of course but for men who have more than 4 children and don't pay child support, they need mandatory vasectomies. Yes I said it. I know I know, no one would go for this. I'm an extremist. This is how we roll. I'm so tired of men being let off the hook for planting seeds they can't nourish. Angers me. 

tonyrog 119 pts

 R. Kamaria Yes but where are the black leaders on this you never hear a peep out of them. 

IAOSingleMoms 879 pts

I don't know guys...Is helping the men do better economically really the answer? In my experience and the experience of others I personally know in similar situations, the men just don't want to help...they will even get jobs that pay cash so they can hide the real money they make and not pay child support. My ex husband is doing this now. Someone commented that I probably make more money than he...and yes, that is very true...However, the child support would really help...I'm tired of walking on pins and needles with my money.

 

Another thought, I appreciate this article being written as well as the article written on the Jezebel website: http://jezebel.com/5926318/why-arent-we-talking-more-about-deadbeat-dads?comment=51008933

 

I think we do need to start addressing the men...We need to start shaming them...the BC is not shaming them enough...all of the blame and shame is placed on the woman's shoulder. But let's face it...as women, we are automatically left with the sole burden of raising the kids...because child support financially and physcially is not promised. So, we do need to vet and choose better. I've learned from my mistakes in choosing the wrong men...and it began with not loving myself and not having standards...This is why I'm so strict with my kids...I don't want my kids suffering in their adult lives...Don't get me wrong...we are blessed...because we are not where some single parent families are....but I can't help but worry about my kids emotional psyche right now...while my daughter is extremely shy and withdrawn, my son acts out and let's all of his emotions display...The therapist is helping them find balance.

Toni_M 18978 pts moderator

 ShunJack It's character that determines a good father, not finances. Finances may help a man better provide for his children, but if that is not something he cares about, you're merely providing him with more money to NOT spend on his kids.

 

Case and point, an athlete who spent his way into bankruptcy rather than pay child support. There are men who will spend every dime on themselves and not feel remotely obligated to support any of their children. And get indignant when told they need to do so.

 

A lot of the times, you can't force a character change; Like I said, I feel these men simply need to be bred out of existence to the best of our ability.

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@ShunJack You know it doesn't matter about you making more money than him, his children need his financial and emotional support. It would create less stress for you and for your children. And I'm a true believer in the power of shame, when used correctly shame works. But yes b/c the mother is most responsible she bears the brunt of this, while the person who has done the disappearing act gets away scott free most of the time. That's why I call abandonment abuse, b/c I'm not sure how many men it would effect but if he knew what he was doing was actually abuse of his children, maybe he'd be shame and step up to the plate.

MixedUpInVegas 1654 pts

 ShunJack

 Whether you make more money than your ex is not the issue.  Both parents are expected to support their children to the best of their ability.  Even among the wealthy, a father is expected to contribute to his childrens' support (Maria and Arnold, anyone?) whether the mother actually "needs" it or not.

 

Even the non-custodial parent (Halle and What's-His-Name) is entitled to support in order to provide the child with a similar lifestyle to which that child is accustomed.

 

BOTH parents are expected to contribute.  It isn't simply a matter of need.  It is a matter of shared responsibility.

AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 ShunJack If the Black community won't shame BM into NOT gang raping BW and little girls what hope is there that they will shame them into paying child support and spending time with their children?

IAOSingleMoms 879 pts

This is my 11 1/2 year old's blog. We haven't done much with it since last year due to time constraints. But we will be picking it up again once things slow down for us. This particular post is about her dad and her feelings. I've encouraged her to speak about what she wishes on her blog. She and my son are seeing a therapist to help with the issues that have come from their dad not being involved. As a mother, it hurts my heart to see my babies hurt and there isn't much I can do about it because I'm "mom". I allowed her to open this blog because like the NY Times article single mom stated, time and money are tight...and I have to find things that are cheap...and this blog is free...and my daughter loves to write...so this is her thing....although she will be starting Karate next year...anywho....if any of you are interested, please leave a comment.

 

http://girlsrule2000.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/father-problems/

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@ShunJack I posted something that's very brave of her to say that but you're doing the right thing by seeking counseling for them, I hope you're getting some yourself. Absentism as a parent is emotionally abusive and your kids having someone to talk to, to work out feelings with will help them so much in the long run. You've got a brave little girl & she's going to help some other girls & parents probably. I commend you for what you're doing.

IAOSingleMoms 879 pts

 eugeniaberg   ShunJack Thanks Eugenia...

 
Black Women With Other Brothers 1656 pts

 ShunJack Your 11 year old's blog....very very touching. Censoring myself right now....

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

It's been said before, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. No one can uplift you, if you have no interest in being uplifted. So if low income men want to uplift themselves they will, if not they won't. There will always be men and women who are poor and have decided that's okay or it's too tough to get of this or whatever excuse for not wanting to be upwardly mobile. I wish I could just care for a person enough & they'd decide they want a better life. But no one can want more for you than you want for yourself & make possible for you to have it. As Sweets & I get ready to conceive its not just b/c he was middle class, that he decided he wanted to be a good husband & father it was b/c he had a man as an example. His own father, his best friend's father, his uncles, his grandfathers, there were men around as an example. It's not like men took him to the side and said 'you know need to marry the woman you love and be a father to your children' it's never that obvious. Most ppl see do what they see, so if you don't see fathers, just moms holding it down you think that's normal at least in your world. But b/c my husband saw husbands & fathers he just figured well that's what I'm supposed to do too. Thank God he did, b/c now I have a good husband & future father for my child. This has to be a lead by example, bm who are good husbands & fathers are going to have to do it.

cns 708 pts

The solution is to take away or restrict your reproductive abilities if you are irresponsible with them. We take away driver licenses from drunk drivers and we limited where a child molester or sexual predator can live. Why not for a broke DBR male? If a male has one child that he does not provide for he should not be allow to impregnate the same or another woman.  Subsidized vasectomies for all males that cannot afford a child.  I think the misconception is that if a DBR male gets an education and a better paying job that he will take care of his kids. Well what good is a 100k salary when you have 10 OOW kids to take care of? They still would not have adequate financial support.  There are DBR profession athletes that have made millions and are now neglecting to pay their court orders child supports so don’t think that a regular dud won’t do the same.

 So of these DBR men come from families with money and education and they still won’t do right. An example of my father. He was raised by his father because his mother died young from illness. His father wanted him to be a dentist and had saved up enough money to send his son to college without any outside financial assistance.  My father was a very good basketball player in school and was being courted different colleges. He was also a very good tailor and his father wanted to send him to school for that as well. He was set up to have a choice of 3 lucrative careers but all my dad wanted was to party and get high and that is what he did with his life.

Brenda55 19725 pts moderator

 cns Does the word eugenics mean anything to you?

SirLoinDeBeef 2528 pts

 cns Influenced by philosophical 'reasoning' of European origin, which was the outgrowth of Social Darwinism - This has been tried, here in the USA, during the 1920's, 1930's & early 1940's - gangs of well-meaning folks (usually men) scoured the backwoods areas of the country, looking for those who were 'mentally-deficient' ... 'morons & idiots' ... and those who had 'too many children' ...

Remember the pseudo-scientific studies of the 'Jukes' & the 'Kallicks' - the solution was State-sponsored forced sterilization (of women), of which, in this country alone, there were several 100's.

Of course, the end-point to this line of thinking was produced in pre-war Nazi Germany ... where, during the 1930's and early 1940's, the insane, the mentally retarded and the demented preceeded the 'Six Million Jews' and the uncounted numbers of Slavs into the gas chambers and the mass cremation sites.

There is plenty of documentation available, including old films of the process, with the announcer speaking in Proud Tones of the Societal Advances.

The name of this Western European Madness of Racial Purification ... EUGENICS !!!

Even today, the underlying logic is so terribly seductive, until one discovers his/her grouping has been re-defined as 'genetically undesirable.'

zabeth 817 pts

So what's your solution to "help the men" Jamila? Isn't it every individual's (regardless of gender) responsibility to sort themselves out? You can offer people help but if they don't want it or feel the need to be helped it won't do much good. Furthermore, who should be responsible for helping/uplifting the men? Women- Black women in particular? Is this more of the “save alla our people” way of thinking?  

Brenda55 19725 pts moderator

Part Four:

“Men need help to become good husbands and fathers. In order to start lowering the out-of-wedlock birth rate and the poverty rate for black children, something is going to have to be done to help the men.”

 

 

If it has been said once it has been said a thousand times. The best thing that any women can do for herself and for her family is choosing a quality mate. You help your son become good husbands and father not grown assed men. Their parents should have done that job before you met them.

 

I for one am not going to give men a pass for not having their acts together. Men can develop sites like this one. They can form organizations to mentor young males heck they can just stick around and be dads to the kids they make. Instead you have guys on the net raking women on sites like this one over the coals for wanting something better. You have them standing on the street harassing us as we go to school and jobs. You have then telling us to wait on our issues and support them in their agendas. Agendas that may or may not include us in the end. So no. Black women need to do us and choose quality from a wider pool of potential mates and let the guys who don't make the cut get their acts together. 

 

TJD 373 pts

 Brenda55 like times 1000000

Toni_M 18978 pts moderator

 Brenda55 I think the best thing we can do is (1) marry well (2) have sons that are raised to be sensible and responsible to the best of our abilities. These same persons cry about how women won't let them "be a man". 

 

Okay.

 

You go find your manhood and I'll seek the guy that already understand how that works. I do think weeding out these men is the best possible thing black women can do. These type of men may have to be forced to die out. 

 

I mean that: Let men who think child abandonment is a commendable and normal trait DIE OUT. Don't produce with them, let them and their seed vanish from the Earth. The less such men are bread into existence, the less there will be to abandon their women and children.

 

The problem with this extreme is that you have people so hung up on "blackness is an endangered species" that the quantity takes precedent over the quality of persons being produced. They encourage black women to lower their standards and open their legs for any and every sorry black man there is, because every black birth, no matter WHAT the circumstances and quality of life is a "victory". 

 

 

I just feel like there's nothing I as a black woman can do aside from minding my own womb and encourage the rationalization of other black women being mindful theirs. This idea of black women as the problem solvers in any way, shape, or form continues the gender role reversal prominent in the black community that dictates that black men are not responsible for problems that they cause that are unique to men: fathers abandoning children being one of them. 

 

I agree with you Brenda55 , let the ones who care to sort themselves out, and stay the holy hell away from the DBRs that don't care to.

Toni_M 18978 pts moderator

 Brenda55 *bred not bread

 

Incidently, I just made myself a delicious flat bread taco from scratch. *.* I guess I had food on the brain...

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AndreaLThorsen 449 pts

 reem11  Brenda55 Are you kidding?! You can't march your way to having character and compassion. If someone feels no love for their own flesh and blood, there is something broken in them. They are probably sociopaths. No normal Human being feels nothing for their own child, yet the so-called BC is chock full of such people.

 

BM leaders, in the USA and in Africa, aren't worth the air they breathe. They have become a running joke around the globe. Due to their hypocrisy, misogyny and greed they have lost all credibility, if they had any to start with.

 

Al Sharpton is famous for his relaxed bouffant hairstyle and Jesse J is famous for rhyming.  Real leaders are famous for their accomplishments, for safe guarding the rights of their people, and not just the ones with penises! Real leaders protect those who are most vulnerable -- women and children, and keep the men of their group in check. Do you see either of these faux "christian" males doing that?

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dasdbobb 1383 pts

 reem11  Brenda55

 Million man march? They would be lucky to 1000 BM together to march for the rights of Black women. They don't want you to have any rights, any security, any happiness, anything at all. I know, there are some BM out there who are not DBR, but from what I see, they are few and somewhat far between. I'm sorry if this ticks some of you off, but BW always seem to be handed the stick sh***y end first, and I'm tired of seeing this. You are beautiful, engaging, honorable, respectful trusting, trustworthy, and brilliant. Your voices are starting to be heard; the haters yell you talk louder. The way to happiness is to forget the haters, trolls, and DBR everybody, and focus on making your life AND YOU what you want it to be, not someone else’s ideas, YOURS! Y'all got me going, I'm going to sit back and read a book now

dasdbobb 1383 pts

 reem11  dasdbobb  Brenda55

 I remember that.  Now we need to orginize a 1,000,000 woman march for black womens rights.  the right to marry whom they want, to live where they want, and to be happy with those choices, without harrassment from anybody.

 

Brenda55 19725 pts moderator

 dasdbobb  reem11 

"I remember that.  Now we need to orginize a 1,000,000 woman march for black womens rights.  the right to marry whom they want, to live where they want, and to be happy with those choices, without harrassment from anybody."

 

Oh but das black women have all of those rights. They have the freedom to exercise them. They just have to have the desire. There is nothing to stop black women. Not really.  Where men like yourself come in is giving black women some one to move towards. 

Brenda55 19725 pts moderator

Part Three:

 

“If we want to ensure that more children are born within wedlock then something will have to be done to turn more lower class men into marriage material. Lower class men clearly want sex; lower class men clearly like kids. But lower class men don’t always have stable jobs to take care of the women who make the babies. So he says that he’ll marry the girl when he gets a good job and some money in his pocket, only the good job never arrives–he dropped out of college, remember? Or perhaps he never even went to college–and now he can’t take of the family that he helped to create. So he leaves. Abandoning the family you created may be less stressful than staying in a household where you can’t pay the bills and you don’t feel like a man because you can’t get or keep a job.”

 

 

 

Rick Banks wrote a book we all fell in love with in these parts. “Is marriage for White people.” Remember that? Everybody went nuts over his suggested recommendation that black women date and marry out. There was more to the book however. There was the section that stated that the situation facing black women in the marriage market was spreading to the marriage market of white America as well. Again these are fundamental changes that are bigger than any one women or group of women.

Case in point:

Dismantling Detroit http://video.nytimes.com/video/2012/01/18/opinion/100000001292277/dismantling-detroit.html?scp=1&sq=Dismantling%20Detroit&st=cse

 

And baby makes two.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/young-mothers-describe-marriages-fading-allure.html?ref=us

 

Now there is no need in running around making sow's ears into silk purses. Seriously. Women just need to effectively vet the men who approach them for relationships. A undesirable mate comes in all colors and are found among the wealthy as well as the poor. Responsible men are also found among the wealthy and poor and they are also represented among all races of men. Again why make this so darn complicated. Learn the spot the jerks and keep it moving.

 

 

 

ElfeV 7093 pts

 Brenda55 "...Women just need to effectively vet the men who approach them for relationships. A undesirable mate comes in all colors and are found among the wealthy as well as the poor. Responsible men are also found among the wealthy and poor and they are also represented among all races of men. Again why make this so darn complicated. Learn the spot the jerks and keep it moving."

 

Amen to this!