Shy Interracial Daters: Are You Wasting Your Time Being a “Pillar of Salt” Woman?

Shy Interracial Daters: Are You Wasting Your Time Being a “Pillar of Salt” Woman?

“These are pillars of salt who stay stuck right where they are, in that detrimental mindset. Most will die having never married. Oddly enough, a well-seasoned POS will show younger black women how to repeat this flawed thinking, thereby perpetuating a nasty and unfair cycle.”

Author : SwirlQueen

Author's Website | Articles from

Almost all of us know the story of Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah from the Bible. We know what happened to Lot’s wife when she decided to remain in a world that meant her certain death. Oh, she was on board with leaving, but her heart was not in it. So she turned to look back and became a pillar of salt. She doomed any chance she had at escape and a possible life of happiness outside of her deadly community.

In the case of black women and interracial marriage and relationships, it is very much an individual preference. People have a right to want who they want and interracial relationships are not for everybody. But for particular black women who are tired of being alone and seek out help yet do nothing — these are women I label “Pillars of Salt” of POS are tremendous time wasters.

The POS is lonely and may make up her mind to do something about it. She may decide to get out and meet men of other races but turns back after taking initial steps to change her situation. It is hard for anyone to find a good, quality mate, but the pillar of salt makes it easy to remain single for a variety of reasons. The POS claims that she can only be attracted to black men or that white men would never be into her. Has she ever tried or has she been indoctrinated to think that a white man could never truly love a black woman? She herself may offer up the ridiculous massa-slave girl excuse and our ancestors being raped and all of that foolishness.

Another reason that a POS woman never considered a white or non-black man could be because of family, friends or the black community feeding her messages that she has to remain loyal to the black man no matter what. A determined woman may start to compromise her standards under these conditions and consider men she would previously have never even given a second thought. But she wants to be married as this is a natural God given right and sentiment. This can be dangerous.

                       

For her unreciprocated loyalty to black men, the POS is awarded a nice life of loneliness and near desperation that leaves her vulnerable for preying by vultures. Once said vulture (BM) has made his conquest. He’s gone, no commitment, no proposal of marriage, he in the wind. The pillar of salt will make excuse after excuse for black male behavior but can’t explain why there are no good, suitable black men out there for her.

Many squander their 20s thinking they have all the time in the world. OK, I got that, there is no need to rush into marriage at any age especially in your twenties. Now in her mid- to late 30s and genuinely wanting motherhood, she is worried that the black prince won’t show up. Some may even decide to go ahead and have that baby before it is too late. That opens the POS to becoming yet another statistic and other obvious problems for the child.

Now, in her mid-40s, she still knows she can have a family and may seek out a coach for advice. But this woman still can’t bring herself to abandon the men she loves. Her friends and family have been instrumental in making sure she doesn’t consider going outside the race to look for a mate. Then we see a POS who is now in her late 50s still longing for a black husband and holds out but secretly knows he is not coming. So she will allow herself to be complacent as long as church folks tell her to keep praying. In another day of weakness, she will seek out a coach or counselor outside of her circles. But will she take that advice or does she just want someone to listen to her woes?

At the end of the day, these women simply don’t want to leave the mindset although they know they should expand their dating pools. They will reason that it is time to do something different and even try to leave only to turn back at the last minute.

Some POS women feel it is a betrayal to their brothers to date out. Some succumb to outside pressures from family, friends, other black men. Again, interracial marriage is not for everyone, and that is a personal preference. But common sense reasons that expanding ones dating options to include all men increases the chances of meeting the man who could become the quality husband they have been praying for decades that God would bring them. But they can’t resist turning back to see what they could have if they just kept waiting on God, while taking no action.

These are pillars of salt who stay stuck right where they are, in that detrimental mindset. Most will die having never married. Oddly enough, a well-seasoned POS will show younger black women how to repeat this flawed thinking, thereby perpetuating a nasty and unfair cycle. They reason that black men have it harder in life and give them a virtual pass on everything. The POS reinforces the mindset that a black woman can be used, abused and is the “old faithful” that will always be there to lift up the black man whether he deserves it or not

A new confidence and shift in attitude can attract a substantial, quality man regardless of his race. Nothing is more pleasing to a coach to see that tried and true formulas work for those women who diligently followed a plan of action, attracted, got and married a quality man.

We are even seeing older black women in their 60s and 70s who grew up in the segregated south have broken free of internal strife that once kept them loyal to black men. If black women who have grown up under Jim Crow can date out, anyone can. They are not looking for white saviors as there is no such thing. Vetting will take care of that anyway, all they did was open their minds to the possibilities of love outside the black race. Being mentally liberated allows for escape from a mindset that held these women previously hostage. They made up their minds and did not turn back. These women did not become pillars of salt or waste their time; they are forward thinking and progressive women. They escaped and are free.

 

 

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quebonita30 6 pts

Why is it such a big deal for Black women to date outside of there race? Why? I mean, really? Do we not value ourselves enough to just say, I want to be with someone who will love an respect me for me.  Putting all the race stuff aside and just say, "hey this person likes me, he can provide for me, he respects me, he only wants to be with me. If you have to compromise on that then you are not with the right person anyway regardless of what race they are. I have dated several different races and only one man gave me all that I required in a mate.  Don't go out looking for a particular man, that you will never find. Go out looking good! Put yourself together! Have a positive attitude. Bees always love beautiful flowers. If you get my meaning, and see what approaches you.  In no time you will have them lined up at the door. if you want to date someone then you have to put yourself out there.

NkonyeOyewusi 5 pts

While I don't object to inter-racial relationships, I've never met a while guy that has been attracted to me! I've met Asian and Chinese men who are, but never white. I've never been attracted to a non-black guy either.  It's a chemistry thing for me, not a race thing. I'm happily married to a black man and love every bit of him. Just making a point that it might not even be due to any of the reasons stated above.

MixedUpInVegas 1643 pts

"We are even seeing older black women in their 60s and 70s who grew up in the segregated south have broken free of internal strife that once kept them loyal to black men."

 

My widowed mother is a prime example of that statement.  After my father died, she started dating a white man.  They dated until he passed away.  Interestingly enough, the only one who seemed to object was my baby sister (who is in her late 40's), even though the rest of my brothers and sisters all married out. 

 

Being in my 60"s I guess I am and example too.  The only men who ever asked to marry me were white men. 

thecrazyartist 2213 pts

@MixedUpInVegas It's not uncommon to see older black women with white men in my area. At my college there was a woman in her early 60's dating a white man, they were in one of my classes and were and all-around fun/hilarious couple(always smiling). The real kicker is that he looked like an ernest p worrell/larry the cable guy redneck, and this is in a very conservative area. Yet at the same time I hear women in their late 20's/early 30's complaining that no man wants them, and "warning" younger women to stay away from white men because "they don't want black women".

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

I read this a few days ago, first it's a wonderful article. Yes there will be lots of bw who will be stuck where they are by their own making. It's sad but such is life. It's not my job to convince ppl to live in their own best self interest, either you or you don't. If you do we can hang, if you don't bye! Simple as that. If you want more, places like this and other places that cater to empowering bw can help you but first and foremost you have to want to help yourself. You know you could give a person a million dollars today and they'd be broke within a month, some ppl don't know their own value so they spend it foolishly. That's too bad.

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 eugeniaberg  I'm with you, Eugenia. I don't know why people continue to think that someone else has the responsibility to convince them to want and to be better. Like, you have to put in all the work into changing their minds, fighting them over their life decisions, and then should they get around to changing their minds, carry them to "The Promised Land".

 

http://i51.tinypic.com/snp191.jpg

 

My own life is too full of too many other far more pressing things than trying to carry somebody else, especially someone who feels entitled to be rescued from themselves, rather than put two and two together on their own. :/

VintageNarcissa 3151 pts

I would not necessarily say that shy women who are interested in IR are POS women. I feel POS women will always at heart be indoctrinated into some part of the black community that says black women must be long suffering and submissive to black men that don't want them. 

 

Even if they venture out and think about IR once or twice, they do so with the thought, okay I'll try this once and if I don't find the white man of my dreams on the first try then that is proof that I should wait for a black man.

 

Shy women interested in IR on the other hand know their preferences and very much want to date IR. They are just not sure how to go about approaching and attracting the type of men they want. We often have posts here at BBW, often by young, college age women who probably did not have much dating experience as teenagers. Maybe they grew up in black areas and were not attracted to the black boys at their school. Or maybe they teased and ostracized for being different, acting and talking like a white girl and all that jazz. By the time they get to college, they remain naive to the ins and outs of dating. But again, they want to learn. And if they have the opportunity to immerse in IR dating with non-black men they would take it. 

 

Working to come out of your shell and making excuses to remain in your misery are two totally different things. POS women are basically on the same lines as NBABM women, DBR women and apologists. Just because they "played in the snow" once does not mean they were are ultimately interested in non-black men. They probably just happened to stumble upon one while in between brothas as their fun story to tell in their old age. Or to at least say they tried it. Or to prove to themselves that non-black man are not on the same level that they perceive black men to be. 

 

The problem with POS women is very clear. I just wanted to make the distinction because people cannot help if they are shy, introverted or  socially awkward. And that doesn't mean they don't know what they want, or again that they would not take an opportunity for a good relationship with a non black man if it came their way. Or that they don't want to work to resolve their shyness or social awkwardness or adapt their introversion to make things like dating easier for them.

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 VintageNarcissa "I would not necessarily say that shy women who are interested in IR are POS women. I feel POS women will always at heart be indoctrinated into some part of the black community that says black women must be long suffering and submissive to black men that don't want them.  "

 

True. Maybe shy isn't the best descriptive term because even though it could be applicable towards a certain segment of women, you have women who are LOUD and PROUD of being a mule. 

 

So maybe the personalities differ, but at the heart of the matter is fear and manipulation, or at least willfully turning one's self over to it. Because after a certain age, a woman HAS to know better. Especially today. In the digital age there is so much information, so much access to new and enlightened opinions.

VintageNarcissa 3151 pts

 Toni_M Yeah, I don't mean to harp on logistics. I just felt it important to consider.

m008 147 pts

 Toni_M  VintageNarcissa "Because after a certain age, a woman HAS to know better. "

 

I'm not really buying that.  Not as a complete statement of the situation, anyway.

 

Some people who know better are prevented from doing better by circumstances (bad timing, not enough material resources).  And/or by fear -- which is a much more powerful demotivator than soem people really realize.  

 

Black folks especially try to downplay that - it's this "WELL THEN JUST DON'T BE AFRAID!"  

 

Even when those Black folks are in a "better" or "different" place than the ones they're shouting at.

Everybody just can't respond to that.

 

I don't know anyone who can get anything done without social support, especially when they're surrounded by negativity.  Sometimes people need more encouragement than just "You know better!  I don't know why you don't do better!"

 

Not everyone responds to the "tough love approach".   Especially when the message is "Well then JUST DO BETTER!"

And especially when they're shy.

 

Just thinking out loud.  Especially for people who might feel the same way but also might feel too intimidated to speak up but are still looking for answers.

m008 147 pts

 Toni_M  VintageNarcissa And no, I'm not a troll.

 

So I'd like to pre-emptively address any suspicion of what I've written here just because I disagree with some comments that laud the "Beat those POS down!" approach.

 

(I'm a lurker who doesn't post much.)

 

I think it's one thing to say "Well, I don't have time to hold anybody's hand", but one somehow finds the time to say (and say, and say) "I don't have time to hold anybody's hand" -- as opposed to maybe offering some suggestions for people who *are* trying to change, but are having trouble?

 

I certainly don't believe in dealing with lost causes.  Just don't deal with them.

 

But I also don't believe someone who says "I'd like to do this, but I'm struggling" is someone who should, just because they were brave enough to say that, be berated and lumped in with the "lost causes".

 

Again, JMO.

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 m008  VintageNarcissa If I thought you were a troll, you'd be banned right now. I have that ability. The fact that you are still commenting should say as much.

 

I am treating your comment seriously, in that I'm going to disagree with you. We're allowed to do that in these parts, despite what some people may think.

 

And I think your opinion is either missing my point or straight up malarky.

 

Particularly ending on this note: 

 

"But I also don't believe someone who says "I'd like to do this, but I'm struggling" is someone who should, just because they were brave enough to say that, be berated and lumped in with the "lost causes".

 

 

There is a difference between black women who ask for help and black women who mess up, refuse to admit they messed up, and then work to sabotage other people. You know better than trying to convince everyone here that women who are grown and refuse to own their own decisions are victims. That's not how that works.

 

If you actively sabotage yourself, that is your choice, and you need to own it. No one else owes you anything in that regard. You can't even be helped if you aren't willing to help yourself and be honest with yourself. Some people might like wasting time trying to get people to realize they deserve better, but I figure you either know it and want it or you don't. In which case, me wanting it for you is not enough.

 

And don't get me started on "polite poisoners"; I have no sympathy for black women that wasted their lives and want to turn around and concern troll other women into doing the same.

 

Falsely lumping these women in with "lost causes"? The devil is a liar.

 

 

I don't suffer fools, poisonous persons, or people who think they are entitled to my time and energy because we are both black and have every intention of using and manipulating me, because they are indoctrinated to think of black women as mules.

 

 

That is the point of my point of view, and if you don't like it...tough rocks. Sometimes, the truth hurts, and if you are backward and wrong, only you can elect to get yourself together. Me being blunt about this fact has nothing to do with that fact, because the choice for such persons to even get around to figuring out they need to adjust themselves is THEIRS rather than MINE.

 

Using the phrasing of other people to avoid personal truths about your own situation is a red herring, in MY humble opinion.

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 m008  VintageNarcissa As far as NBAB goes, I couldn't care less what these women want. That's their business. I sincerely want other people to be happy, and if they're not, I hope and pray they do what they can to find happiness.

 

If I see someone is struggling on the way to something better, YES, I'll help them. But don't sit there at the bottom of the barrel and hate on me for moving and shaking and then expect me to lift you up because "we're black" and you think I owe you something because of the color of your skin, and despite the fact that you are poisonous, ignorant, and a lover of doing nothing and wanting nothing for yourself.

 

 

And no, I also do not have time to listen to the sob stories of women who elected to waste decades (no one makes you waste the time you have, you choose to do that) and then turn around and hate on anyone else actively living their life. Or try and concern troll people out of living their lives through manipulative tools involving race and religion.

 

 

These are not scared chidren we're talking about; I have endless compassion for scared children. 

 

We're talking GROWN women, women old enough to know better and do better and who make their own decisions. No matter what I say on the matter, nothing hits as close to home as your own realizations about your own life. My refusal to coddle questionable individuals (again, where this idea of kicking people who are down and genuinely want better came from, I don't know...) has nothing to do with that.

m008 147 pts

@Toni_M "There is a difference between black women who ask for help and black women who mess up, refuse to admit they messed up, and then work to sabotage other people. "

 

Yes, there is.

 

And I still submit just from reading that your latest comments here that you're insisting on lumping the former in with the latter (with a dash of additional hyperbole -- saying "I'm having trouble with this" does not equate to "weeping and moaning and refusing to move from the same place".)

 

I also am not trying to "convince everyone" of anything, as you accuse me of downthread.

 

But I'm also not trying to "convince" you of anything, especially since you seem pretty well invested in what you believe to be your point, and also since it's Friday and, in an interest of trying to make my own life better and serve an example where I can, I have to prepare for a date.

 

 

m008 147 pts

 Toni_M "Using the phrasing of other people to avoid personal truths about your own situation is a red herring, in MY humble opinion."

 

One of these may be my situation, but all of them are not.

 

Further, I know for a fact, because I talk to other BW in at least one of these situations, that I'm not the only one who feels like that.

 

But you can continue to call that a "red herring", or whatever misrepresentation you choose.

 

"As far as NBAB goes, I couldn't care less what these women want. "

 

I'm not talking about them.

 

The only other point is that -- well, I'm not going to count your words, but it looks like you've taken an awful lot more space not only to reiterate what you feel about them yet again, when ... what?  You don't think you've already made yourself clear about how you feel about people like that?  

 

You know what?  Never mind.  

*sigh*

 

It just really demonstrates what I was asking about initially -- the continued effort seems to be to rant and rant about people whom people *already know* are negative, instead of attempting to shift a focus to people who are trying to be positive.

 

:-/

 

 

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

m008

We're going to have to agree to disagree as to what my point is and who I'm talking about. Moreover, if I have to dress up, "get yourself together and stop blaming other people for your life choices." in flowery words, lace, and bowties for you to WANT to do it for yourself, because you are of the mind that it's up to other people to convince you to do this, God help you, because I can't reach you.

 

That may sound cold, but having dealt with my OWN share of trifling backward people who will pull you down if they could half-way get the chance, that's pretty much where I am. And I'd rather be honest and upfront, safe and sorry, then dead in the gutter from the poison of a "harmless looking" snake.

 

Enjoy your Friday.

 

m008 147 pts

 VintageNarcissa I appreciate that a commenter who is long-term and valued here went here with this.

 

I notice there is a lot of lambasting of women who are not on the IRR train for whatever reason, and a loooot of co-signing of that co-signing.     I'd far rather see, and very much appreciate it when it happens, more suggestions to BW who are actively dating IR but struggling with its challenges - b/c we know no relationship is drama-free - as opposed to a continual lambasting of women whom one *knows* aren't going one's way.     How does that help anything??

 

One of the things I always saw as intrinsic to the DBR mindset is that kind of beating up on people who don't see things the way you do, masquerading frequently as "tough love" or "telling it like it is".  It's actually been scientifically demonstrated that people who are continually subject to this have their bodies' production of neurotransmitters - specifically, norepinephrine and dopamine, the "get up and do something" ones - actually reduced.  That's how I personally knew staying with the generally "angry rhetoric" of the BC was toxic -- and yes, I still see it on sites like this, where folks who *say* that they're trying to encourage BW to leave the community are actually, instead, just berating those who appear to be choosing differently.

 

What  I guess I'm saying is I think the OP writer's analogy is/was amazing and creative.

 

What I don't see is anything in the article -- or in many articles like it that hit (and hit and hit) on this theme, like "Shy BW looking to date IR, here are some ways to change your environment so you can work with that shyness and still succeed."

 

Or "if you're a BW who was threatened with ostracism in your earlier years, or for whatever multiplicity of reasons didn't feel safe to explore IR till your 30s or 40s, and are sufficiently successful/entrenched in your career that relocation isn't an immediate possibility, here are some potential ways to improve on IR dating prospects in your city/town."

 

Or "If you've dieted and worked out from a larger, 'thicker' BW size down to a 10, or an 8, but are still hearing 'well, WM only like BW who are size 0-2-4, so too bad for you' , then here are some men to explore (Greek, Mexican, Northern Italian) who may better appreciate your shape."

 

Less focus on hammering the negative -- I certainly see the point in terms of women you see trying to indoctrinate the next generation, but other than that, what are they doing to you? -- and more on the positive, instead of just shrugging them off with "Well, relationships are tough no matter what", trying to help people are are actively trying to participate in what you say you want to represent.

 

JMO.

 

 

Brenda55 19276 pts moderator

I really don't give two shakes about Miss Pillar of salt.  Yes I went there with the lame pun.

 

Sites like this one are for women who know what they want in the way of a relationship and are making the moves to get it.

Sites like this one are for women who know their own mind about the kind of man they want and want to join a community of like minded people who feel that who they love is their own affair and their own choice.

 

Sites like this one are for the men and women who live this choice, want to talk about it freely and safely and want the truth of the nature of our relationships and families out there to counter act all of the misinformation and lies about what it means to be in an IRR.

 

We support people who have already made the choice to expand their relationship pool.

We support people who want to make that choice and want to talk to we who live it.

We support the curious who want to know the truth about our lives and loves.

We are not here  however to coddle, convince and coerce the undecided, reluctant, fearful and closed-minded.

 

This is not about IRR indoctrination. These sites never have been.

 

It is true that most people will desire a mate from within their own racial and ethic group. That is fine.

There is a subset of people who do not feel that way and desire relationships with people who are of a different race than they are. That is fine also.  Those are the voices that are welcome in this space.

 

For the POS woman who wants to be dragged kicking and screaming towards a non-black man.  Sorry we have nothing to offer you. We are living our lives happily and have better things to do. For the POS woman who wants to hold her nose and hook you with a non-black man all the while bemoaning her fate all I can say is this.  Do all of us a favor and wait for the man you really want.  Under no circumstances should you waste the time of a non-black men with your nonsense. Don't screw up an opportunity for him to be with a black woman who wants him  and please don't  bore us  to the point of tears bemoaning the fact that you reached fifty and had to settle.

 

Being a  interracial relationship is not about settling.  It is not about sloppy seconds. It is not about grudgingly holding your nose and putting up with a man just so you don't have to be alone. It is about being well loved and living a wonderful life with a man who is happy to have you in his life.

 

For those with open minds please read the article above,take the information that it contains and compare what you read here with your own life and some of the women you live and work with and then make your choice. That is critical thinking.

There are life courses in life that will leave you alone and life courses that will not. The course that SwirlQueen out lines insures the former and if you are cool with that then more power to you. 

 

 

 

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 Brenda55 Oh dear, I hope nobody gets "salty" over this comment.

 

 

....

 

*joins Brenda55  at the bad pun table*

ASwirlGirl 3023 pts

 Toni_M  Brenda55 I hope this article doesn't rub salt in the wound of POS' perpetual singledom.

 

*Tells Toni_M  to scoot over*

Karla 18219 pts

 Brenda55 Two things: 1) POS always meant something else in the Navy ("Did you see that POS rust bucket of a ship?") and so every time I see the acronym, that's what I'm thinking.  2) You had to go there with "sloppy seconds", LOL.

ASwirlGirl 3023 pts

 Karla  Brenda55 That same meaning for POS crossed my mind also. *I have an Army Dad* LOL!

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

It's sad that so many women are willing to live in bondage because they think it's the right thing to do. That bondage is something "a good black woman appreciates".

 

 

At the same time....I have the hardest time feeling sorry for these women. When they're still young and malleable, maybe something can be done. But I do not have time for women in their fifties angry at everybody about their own life choices while simultaneously trying to poison young women into following them down the same road. 

 

 

There are some truly selfish and backward black women and it's both sad and infuriating.

 

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

"She herself may offer up the ridiculous massa-slave girl excuse and our ancestors being raped and all of that foolishness."

 

I am SO SO SO tired of African Americans running around and acting like the lives of people they don't even know directly implicates their own choices in life. I am nobody's slave, and I don't look at Caucasians (who's grandparents could have arrived from freaking Ireland thirty years ago) and assume they want to own me. 

 

People need to get their heads right and stop claiming lives and experiences that are not their own. Especially as a justification for limiting themselves.

FriendsofJay 1807 pts

This is the great sadness: BW watching the years and their youth pass by.  A BW who wastes her time endlessly waiting for her black prince should be an example to every other BW in the community that this should not be their fate.  Don't wait for a miracle.  They don't happen very often.  This is 2012.  Things are much different now.  Why do you allow BM who date WW to convince you that you should stay loyal to them and the BC?   I just don't get it.

kiki100 630 pts

 FriendsofJay The problem arises when you are just looking for a decent man, not necessarily a black man. I know many single women who are looking for quality men. There has to be mutual interest though. It takes time.

Dira 20 pts

Love this post and I've known black women who fit this description to the ''T'', but I must say that I'm starting to see more and more black women expanding their options. I live in houston tx and within the last few years I've been noticing lots of black women with non black men so the word is certainly getting around, thanks to you and many other black women like you

Toni_M 18712 pts moderator

 Dira I feel like we've seen it more within the last decade or so, especially the last five years. I almost suspect it's a generational thing.

ASwirlGirl 3023 pts

The concept of a "Pillar of Salt" woman is genius. Alas; I know so many women like this!