New Study Reveals Black Women Viewed as “Masculine;” Asian Men Sterotyped “Feminine.” How This Affects Swirling.

New Study Reveals Black Women Viewed as “Masculine;” Asian Men Sterotyped “Feminine.” How This Affects Swirling.

A study released by Columbia Business School revealed that race is often assigned a gender along a spectrum. Black people are viewed as “masculine,” regardless of whether the subject is male or female, and Asian people as a whole are viewed as “feminine.”

Author : Christelyn Karazin

Author's Website | Articles from

A study released by Columbia Business School revealed that race is often assigned a gender along a spectrum. Black people are viewed as “masculine,” regardless of whether the subject is male or female, and Asian people as a whole are viewed as “feminine.”

Within the heterosexual dating market, men tend to prefer women who personify the feminine ideal while women prefer men who embody masculinity. Galinsky showed that men are more attracted to Asian women relative to black women, while women are more attracted to black men relative to Asian men. Even more interesting, the more a man valued femininity the more likely he was attracted to an Asian women and the less likely he was attracted to an black women. The same effect occurred for women, with attraction to masculinity driving the differential attraction to black men and Asian men.

This news is not surprising to me, which is why I made the video, “Why the Strong Black Woman Must Die.”

 

I’d also like to “kill” what this woman represents for black women:

The grotesque neck-twirling, lip screwed up ball-busting black woman is what many people think of when they conjure up images of black women.

Never mind that I know more black women that look and act like this woman…

Most of my African American girlfriends embody the many of the qualities of our first lady.

Asian Men are ‘Soft?”

No need for a towel. This man is so hot that water will boil right off.

Conversely, Asian men are viewed as “soft” or “feminine” by other racial groups. Think about how this impacts swirling. The masculine stereotype attributed to black people benefits black men when it comes to interracial dating, and one can suggest the data supports this. The researchers looked at 2000 Census data and saw that “among black-white marriages, 73 percent had a black husband.” The “feminine” stereotype benefits Asian women, which the data also supports, but leaves Asian men in the lurch, just the same as how the “masculine” stereotype dings black women

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SisterRainbow 208 pts

Being a strong Black woman can be tiring. It is true that this developed in the distant past for the reasons Christelyn stated. It also survives because many of us cannot depend upon anyone else. It is not easy to balance this, but it is worth it, if we can do it. But, some of us are defensive, and I understand that (and I am also talking about myself at times). Though sometimes, I have not defended myself, and that just made me angrier, then my barriers became like iron. People have sometimes mistaken that for my being strong. But, they were wrong. I was protecting myself, or so I thought. Hmmm, so many perceptions of Black women are way off. Yes, I do agree that we should discuss this. This problem has been like a noose around many our necks for way too long, in addition to other expectations that haven't done us any good.

Guess what people say when they see my femininity? The "Lisa is mixed" explanation comes out, even though I identify as Black. Some people (especially women) don't know how to handle it when a darker complected Black woman is super feminine (even though some darker women are also mixed, just not stereotypically so). I have seen this...and the "opposition" is upset as if their world has been shattered. No exaggeration. They cannot handle it emotionally, and don't know how to process it without further insulting this woman. In many cases, a darker, feminine Black women is categorized as oversexed...even if absolutely nothing about her exudes sex at the time she is being analyzed. She has to be knocked down a peg or 10 pegs, because too many other women cannot handle a society where all eyes and minds are not focused on them. Though, even that is not true for all nonblack women, the illusion and the promotion of it is powerful.

I completely understand the current need for being strong when it is a defense mechanism. My focus is to balance it, not to completely get rid of it. I don't see how, in this society, we can do that. That is, until I begin to think of other women who are not burdened with this stereotype. But, their history and current experiences are different. *sigh* This frustrates me, but it is still an interesting and important topic. I still have about 100 comments to read. RATS! Catching up is not easy.  :-)

Jamila 7210 pts moderator

The results of this study also have a lot do to with how Asian culture is perceived. 

 

Women, by virtue of being women, are going to be considered more feminine than men--and this goes for ALL races. 

 

However, think about your perceptions of Asian cultures, what are the first things that come to mind? For me, I think of the idea of "flow"; yin and ying; the fact that Asian cultures do not encourage open signs of aggression or hostility between enemies; the book The Art of War, which, although it is a war book, is more about strategy and manipulation and outwitting your opponent by using your mind than about how to drop bombs or actually kill someone. All of those thoughts are ideas that I associate more so with femininity than with masculinity. 

 

I also want to point out that "masculine" is not synonymous with "manly" and "feminine" is not synonymous with "womanly".  I think that most of us are from the West, and as such our thinking is likely to be of a dichotomous nature--it is either to the left or the the right, it is black or it is white, it is a man or it is a woman.  So when we see the word "masculine" we think "like a man; not belonging to a woman" but this isn't always true and is definitely not how other cultures see things. 

 

For example, there are many languages in which words can be either masculine, feminine, or neuter. In English we only have the neutral participle "the", which is neuter: the house, the car, the man, the shoe,etc., But in many other languages words can be masculine, feminine or neuter; in German there is "die", "der", and "das"--which all mean "the", and are feminine masculine and neuter, respectively. 

Karla 18226 pts

 Jamila "I think that most of us are from the West, and as such our thinking is likely to be of a dichotomous nature--it is either to the left or the the right, it is black or it is white, it is a man or it is a woman."

 

Excellent observation.  And I like the example of language.  BTW, those assignments of masculine, feminine and neuter articles are usually grammatical gender assignments, not so much natural gender.  The word "mädchen" for girl uses a the neuter article, "das", not the feminine article.

Maxine 1005 pts

 Jamila And black culture is perceived as masculine.  There are more black men than women in the public eye, usually for the most hypermasculine reasons.  Basketball players. Football players.  Perp walks and mug shots on the news.  Heroic action stars in the movies. Competent scientists or government agents on TV.  Today's black music is dominated by men bragging about their sexual prowess, their material riches, their violence over other black men, their commands to black women to back it up/twerk/drop it low.  Black comedy, where many non-blacks think they get the inside scoop on black culture, is nearly all-male.  (I know white comedy is dominated by men too, but not as much with Roseanne, Sara Silverman, Chelsea Handler, Whitney Cummings, Amy Poehler, Tina Fey.)  What few prominent black women there are (Beyonce, Nicki Minaj, Rihanna, Ciara), are either partnered with or proteges of these men.  I also think people outside of a culture get their cues about the women from how the men in their culture treat them.  If you hear bitch and ho as euphemisms for black women, if 70% of the black women you see are unpartnered or raising kids alone, if black women on TV are starting fist-fights and complaining about child support that even millionaire ex-husbands won't pay....whites and other non-blacks are subconsciously getting the message that black women are tough enough to take it.  They are assuming that a black man knows best what black women want/need, and if this is how they're treated it must be OK.  

 

If there's any lesson to take from this study, it's that we have to be adamant in supporting positive images of black womanhood and rejecting the negative ones.    

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Maxine  Jamila " If you hear bitch and ho as euphemisms for black women,..." Surely euphemism is not the right word.

 

 

On another note, I came across this today:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/michelle-obama-candy-magazine-transgender-connie-fleming_n_2317992.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black%20Voices

I understand what they were trying to do but surely, in light of this thread,  this just adds to the notion of  black women as masculine.

Wait this doesn't make any sense to me, it seems to me this is based off of appearance moreso than actual character. Michelle Obama is not extremely dainty and soft spoken. She's classty and feminine looking, but she's authorative, she's outspoken about several issues in America which is why people can listen to her husband and her and "listen" and comply with the rules they've set as members of the white house. When she gets in front of the media to speak she's not drawn back with a light soft spoken voice and batting her eyelashes. She's outspoken and authorative like I said, not loud and overbearing but speaks with confidence and a profound tone to get you to listen. Women back then were very authorative along side black men because of racial bias and history. Black women back then made their voices heard along with their men in the fight against democracy. It's not about upholding the strong black woman image or character to denounce femininity and womanhood, it's the way black women are viewed because OF THE WAY WE LOOK. Black men are associated with masculinity because of their structural build, features and approach.

 

Asian men damn sure aren't docile, soft or feminine acting. They're very powerful about their culture, heritage and cultureal rules SO WHY ARE THEY DEEMED FEMININE? Go to a Asian country they make it known how they're the head of their culture and society not women SO WHY ARE THEY VIEWED AS FEMININE? Their looks!! Even photos were used to "PHYSICALLY" prove that we disgree with the labels about masculinty and femininty given to Asian men and black women. Michelle Obama who was used as a reference was the victim of being labeled "ANGRY BLACK WOMAN" despite us thinking she's the epitome of classy and feminine black woman. SO WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE THAT CAUSED PEOPLE TO LABEL HER SUCH THOUGH SHE IS NOT? I don't even have to say it "HER LOOK"! She's dark skin/brown skin and she's a black woman. Black women are already off the back approached and labeled with stereotypes before people even open the wrapper to see what's on the inside. So are Asian men, who are far from Feminine, go meet one and tell me if their character comes off womanly, you'll get a rude awakening. Black women don't have to shout the moutains strong black woman all the time, it annoys me. But we've developed very outspoken approaches to a lot of issues because we still are black in America. We're not treated like women in society, and definitely not treated like women in our community in which the men want you to serve their manhood before they treat you like the woman you are. It's kind of hard to smile and bat your eyelashes with a thorn in your foot if you know what I mean.

 

If you meet most black women we're feminine, if you meet most Asian men they're masculine, if you look at us and go by whatever internalized stereotypes then that's your problem society. You painted that image. Yes IMAGE.

 

Judging a book by it's cover still exists unfortunately mainly for black women and Asian men. We can't help how our DNA decided to construct us.

RoddyRose 8 pts

I had a reply to one of my comments and they say my comment reminded them of a quote about a 'weak man needing a weak partner'. You know, when I pray to God at night or in the morning I say that I need God's help because I'm weak and I'm faced with a world that tries to tear me down. I DO think I'm a weak man. They are correct. I'm so weak that when I'm tempted to cheat on my wife, I pray so that I will not, and thus I have not. I'm so weak that when my wife needs money, I pray that I don't spend it, knowing full well that if I do, she will be neglected. I'm so weak that after all of the stress I face, I haven't had a drink of alcohol nor have done any drugs in four years, even though, I have thoughts about doing so every now and then. So to respond accordingly...Yes it is true.I am a weak man. The only thing is, my wife would beg to differ as she thinks I'm a strong man because of the sacrifices I've made in order to be with her.  She thinks I'm strong becase of the promises I've kept. Sh thinks I'm strong because I married her when I said I would even though she doubted I'd pull it off. she thinks I'm strong and beautiful. I mentioned in my previous and only comment on this website that I'm a black man married to an Asian woman. This woman gave me the opportunity to prove myself. I didn't know how to love anyone, as I was a damaged person still on the mend when I met her. She gave me the shot I was looking for and by some miracle, I've been able to pull it off, marrying a woman of a different culture and race and really experiencing love. In my assessment, I am a weak black man who is heavily flawed and made many mistakes in life, but my wife...It brings tears to my eyes...She loves me and I love her too.

Christelyn 8739 pts moderator

 RoddyRose That was beautiful, Roddy. It really was. God bless you and your wife.

vthewriter 265 pts

 RoddyRose Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone does stupid things. Everyone has regrets about things they've done or who they've been in the past.

 

Strong people learn and move on. Temptation doesn't go away. Problems don't go away. You can't escape yourself or your past. But strong people move forward. Strong people change what they do not like about themselves. Strong people know their limits and they know how to act in the way that's best for themselves and their loved ones.

 

Weak people keep doing the same old thing over and over again while complaining and making excuses the entire way.

 

Good luck, friend. No one in this world is perfect, but everyone in this world can make themselves better. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Your wife might see something in you that you just haven't admitted to yourself yet.

Brenda55 19411 pts moderator

 Keep working on yourself.  You'll get there eventually.

 

Kiera 46 pts

Stereotype or study, it is all bs. I have MANY black female acquaintances, and they are only masculine in their thinking (as in they are in control of their emotions and don't let themselves get played by men), but they love dresses, make-up, aren't ghetto, are ball-busting or emasculating in any shape or form. All are beautiful, get a lot of attention from guys and all around sweet people. The Asian men I have ran into in my relatively short lifetime have had type A personalities. Not saying there aren't timid Asian guys, but I never met one. Type A is as masculine as it gets. I take articles like this, nod my head a bit, and keep on about my business.

Yes!!! Well said, same thing I referenced. That's why I say studies like these are mainly based off looks, not saying character can't play a major part but we've associated Asian men with femininity and have referenced their small jewels, dainty features and small frames as feminine. Asian women are seen as more feminine because of that. Most black women are very girly, aren't therr studies talking about how high our standards are, and how we're obsessed with hair and makeup and all of that b.s. so something isn't right. I just think this limited biased thinking on what classifies  feminine and masculine really has hurt the images of black women and Asian men. It really sucks because some people obviously internalized it.

Maxine 1005 pts

 EmilySpring UGH.  Awful.

I agree with a lot of ppl in that this study seems flawed but I'm still so curious to know why black women have the reputation of being unfeminine and asian men are viewed as feminine. I think ppl expect BW to act a certain way because many of us have grown up in tough neighborhoods or poor areas so in order for us to survive we've had to act tough so that we don't become targets but that's not always the case. I personally grew up in a tough area in NY and I'm still feminine. AM I believe are constantly picked on and viewed as effeminate or if they have any kind of masculine qualities it's because they are some kind of martial arts phenom or a ninja. Really is that all they are to ppl? and are all BW rude and have nasty attitudes?

Sunshine789 711 pts

Interesting observation that I have had: on several blogs I have seen people cite Michelle Obama as being unfeminine because she has defined arm muscles. When I dared compare her beauty to Jackie O on Facebook, several people had a fit that I would utter such sacrilege!

 

Also, when I was in a college-level fashion illustration class, my teacher gave me notes that my sketches should have what she called "breadstick arms" - i.e. no muscle definition at all.

This comment has been deleted
Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter I was actually one of the top illustrators in the class, and she was constantly using my work as a positive example to others.  I just thought it was funny that was the one single thing she decided to critique me on.

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Sunshine789 Let me rephrase my earlier post. I can't compare MO and JO. Two women from different eras. JO was elegant and feminine as is MO but both in their own unique way. Those fashion sketches are always unrealistic anyway.

Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter When I was commenting on MO and JO on Facebook, I had posted that I felt that MO was a modern version of JO, which I didn't think was really that radical of a statement, considering they are both so elegant - albeit in their own ways as you mentioned. Also, the Obama family reminds me of a modern-day Camelot: a beautiful black family embodying the image of the perfect American family. I think that was where the backlash to my comment was coming from - the idea that a black family could be the "ideal" version of "Perfect Americana".

 

Yesterday on the news my husband and I were watching a news story about the upcoming gay-marriage rulings on Brian Williams show. When he mentioned "traditional marriage" my white husband pointed out that they showed a clip of a straight black couple as opposed to a white one. That single editing choice was a great example of how the Obamas are helping to move us into the "normal" lane of the American conciousness.

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Sunshine789  I don't think the backlash to the comparison with JO has anything to do with race. Really. JO is one of those over-revered and impossibly exalted style icon's who must never EVER be compared to anyone else. Don't you know that todo so is akin to blasphemy.

Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter "Really. JO is one of those over-revered and impossibly exalted style icon's who must never EVER be compared to anyone else. Don't you know that todo so is akin to blasphemy."

 

Lol! I found this out the hard way! But fashion is about change, and I haven't seen anybody wear a pillbox had in a few minutes, sorry to say, Miss JO. However, everyone is wearing that grey nail polish that MO was rocking at the DNC and shopping at J Crew, so I think her time has come:)

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Sunshine789 There's room for everyone as far as influences go. Fashion goes in cycles anyway and influences from other eras will pop up time and time again. For example the designers MO favours may be fresh/rising but some of the stuff she wears is not new by any stretch of the imagination.

Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter "For example the designers MO favours may be fresh/rising but some of the stuff she wears is not new by any stretch of the imagination."

 

Neither was JO's style anything new. What made her special was the ambiance she imbued her clothes and family with - an ambiance that was aspirational for the average Jane. Michelle Obama is the same way - I see many mothers using her and the Obama girls as touchstones for how a "proper" family presents themselves.

 

This is why it is notable that the haters critique her toned arms. She has been impeccable since the Obamas took the White House.

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Sunshine789 

She's ok. They both are (well, JO was).

 

You know what's funny? Probably those who are so enamoured with JO may not have even been alive when she was in the White House. Yet they're so defensive over her. It's a weird nostalgia for something they didn't even experience. Simply put it's just the idea of her, the mystique. Next best thing to royalty. Sure everyone has tastes but it's not a personal affront if someone doesn't agree.

 

I thought toned arms were better than flabby or skinny arms anyway.

Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter I love JO as much as MO, and I can understand why someone would not agree that they were similar style icons, and I totally get the royalty thing. But citing MO's toned arms and saying she is "masculine" as the reason she is not as stylish makes me give the dissenters a side-eye....

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 Sunshine789  It's like trying to convince a Beatles fan that the Beatles are NOT the best thing to have ever existed. Just give up lol

Sunshine789 711 pts

 KingsDaughter Yeah, the Beatles are just ok.....lol!

The Working Home Keeper 6591 pts

 Sunshine789  KingsDaughter I love my pillbox hat! :)

 
kiki100 630 pts

 KingsDaughter  "Don't you know that todo so is akin to blasphemy."

 

And we all know why. Jackie y the way with with Bobby before John. hh the protection these people have.

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 The Working Home Keeper  Sunshine789  KingsDaughter I think they're cute :)

Jamila 7210 pts moderator

Some of you all sound absolutely crazy and have serious persecution complexes. This was not a study done because "THEY HATE BLACK WOMEN!" Sheesh, that is such a reflective response. This study was completed in a valid way, so no, you cannot impugn the methods. All of those responsible for the study have an interest in diversity and studying minority groups; two of the researchers are social psychologists. 

 

Erika Hall, one of the three people responsible for the study is a black woman. She is now a professor as Kellogg Business School:

 

"Erika Hall is a lecturer in the Department of Management and Organizations. Prior to Kellogg, Professor Hall was a Research Associate at Harvard Business School. Her research focuses on implicit perceptions of femininity and masculinity in the workplace. Further, Professor Hall looks at how leaders with multiple minority identities are perceived in teams and organizations."

 

re: Amy Cuddy, the other female professor in the study

 

"Social psychologist Amy Cuddy, an associate professor at Harvard Business School, uses experimental methods to investigate how people judge each other and themselves. Her research suggests that judgments along two critical trait dimensions – warmth/trustworthiness and competence/power – shape social interactions, determining such outcomes as who gets hired and who doesn’t, when we are more or less likely to take risks, why we admire, envy, or disparage certain people, elect politicians, or even target minority groups for genocide."

 

re: Adam Galinsky

 

"Adam Galinsky is currently a Vikram S. Pandit Professor of Business at Columbia Business School. He received his Ph.D. from Princeton University in Social Psychology and his B.A from Harvard University. Professor Galinsky has published more than 140 scientific articles, chapters, and teaching cases in the fields of management and social psychology. His research and teaching focus on leadership, power, negotiations, decision-making, diversity, and ethics.

Maxine 1005 pts

 Jamila Thank you.  The study was done to reveal people's illogical thinking and underlying stereotypes.  I don't know who would be surprised by this information.  The study did not claim, unlike the Japanese researcher from Psychology Today, that these results were based in scientific fact.  It did not start with the hypothesis that black women ARE masculine and then set out to determine why.    

kiki100 630 pts

 Maxine  Study or no study. We all know how blacks are viewed by other races. I suppose these studies are for them, not for blacks...

vthewriter 265 pts

I see this as more of a poor reflection on Columbia Business School rather than any kind of validation of racial/gender stereotypes. Scientifically, the study doesn't stand. Just on the surface there are too many flaws, and then to actually delve deeper... there are too many things wrong with it to consider it as evidence of anything.

 

The most they did was compile a select representation of aggregate statistical data of individual opinions using the best resources available to them. The problem with many social statistics is that they are too quickly and easily swayed by mainstream media, region, culture, nationality, etc. The release of a new movie or television show can change social perceptions. Moving the study across the border to Canada will change the results. The time they took to conduct and release the study affected its relevance. The statistics will probably be outdated in the next year, and will most certainly be outdated in five.

 

I don't expect much from business schools in general. I don't expect much from Columbia in this case. If they really want to stand behind their "findings," they will have to continue to keep up with this study for at least another decade, but I have the feeling that this is more of a "fire and forget" kind of study. As an example, if we were to look at how drastically gender perceptions have shifted in the U.S. in the past 10, 50, 100 years, we could see how fluid the idea of social perception on gender is. If we were to take a snapshot of gender perception at any of these different points in time, or even in different regions, we would get many different conclusions.

 

Long story short: relax. Just because a college released a study doesn't make it accurate or relevant.

BrokenHeartNSoul13 122 pts

Articles like this have NOTHING to do with science or people that care about anyone!! They just write this stuff to attack black women spiritually, and psychologically! We are HATED, we are HATED! When someone hates you there is no rhyme or reason, PERIOD. They will use their colleged degree, their status, graphs, pie charts and statistics to excuse everything but they will never admit it is just plain hatred!

greengirl7 330 pts

 BrokenHeartNSoul13 

"They just write this stuff to attack black women"

 

Exactly.

Where are the studies about violent Black men?

Where are the studies comparing the number of murders committed by different ethnic groups of men?

Where are the studies about which group of men commits the highest rates of domestic violence, burglaries, or rape?

Where are the studies on which group of men are most likely to abandon their children?

Where are the studies on which group of men score the lowest on IQ tests?

 

There are plenty of reputation damaging articles on BW, some of them using misleading statistics, or using only popular opinion to draw conclusions.   But no such studies on BM, because that would be “racist”.

These studies aren’t even real studies, a group of people just went around asking “Who do you think the most feminine/unfeminine women are?”, never mind that one ethnic group of women are severely stigmatized, stereotyped, and maligned to begin with.  This femininity “study” just like the attractiveness “study”, was created to further assault our image.

 

They would never perform a study comparing women, where they knew ahead of time that WW would be on the bottom.  Would they do a study on which IRR marriages are most likely to fail? Never, because WW’s IRR marriages are most likely to fail.

BrokenHeartNSoul13 122 pts

 greengirl7  BrokenHeartNSoul13

  YES!! Thank you GreenGirl! This is just plain hatred, PERIOD. These people do not care about truth, right and wrong or science. Let me write an article talking about whites or jews this way and i would be called anti-semite, racist, bigot they would drag me through the mud! But people claiming to be about "science" can say whatever they want about black women and no one says a word but agrees with it!!

BrokenHeartNSoul13 122 pts

I would like to comment on asian women being seen as more feminine, they are basically "replacement white girls" for men. Asian women are nothing but white girls with squinty eyes, i'm sorry to say it like that but its true. They have the straight silky hair, they have light pinkish white and light yellowish white skin. They qualify as white girls. And white supremacy is dwindling, not alot of white births, so the key to resolving this issue, is to socialize men to see asian women as white women and then they will create more white babies keeping white supremacy alive.

kiki100 630 pts

 BrokenHeartNSoul13  Wow.....interesting.

BrokenHeartNSoul13 122 pts

 kiki100

 Its true Kiki!! Look at the way asian women look. They are basically white girls with squinty eyes, its the truth! They have the qualifying traits that whites see as acceptable and beautiful, straight hair, light pink or light yellow skin and usually thin bodies. They have squinty eyes but many whites see that as pretty so they don't care, they still qualify as replacement white women. They are replacement white women in a nut shell. And they have all of the positive stereotypes pinned to them and their entire being. For example, they will always be seen as sweet, submissive, smart, cultured, elegant, powerful, wealthy because they are asian. They will never be hated and treated with the extra special hatred that black women are treated with.

@BrokenHeartNSoul13 @kiki100 I get the point you are trying to make and your frustration because I'm a black woman and we are picked on. But the thing in not all Asian women are light skinned, many of them are darker skinned but you would never know that because skin bleaching is a billion dollar industry in Asia. They have been manipulated just like black women to think that who they are and how they look isn't good enough. Many of them dye their hair lighter colors, they bleach their skin, and get a procedure referred to as double eyelid surgery. What double eyelid surgery does is it is plastic surgery to widen the eyes and give a more Western (Caucasian) appearance. This is commonplace in many Asian countries especially in South Korea. They are taught to hate what makes them the most beautiful just like black women, Aren't we taught also that lighter skin black girls with long hair, perfect skin, and huge butts are the epitome of beauty. C'mon ladies it's not their faults either all women of color are being put down

KingsDaughter 4638 pts

 BrokenHeartNSoul13  kiki100 

Some of the crazy Indian ads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbufbkbovY

 

Targeting men as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqd9zaI698

 

and Sharukh Khan is in the last ad. He's an Indian film LEGEND so it's a big deal that he's promoting this!

BrokenHeartNSoul13 122 pts

 Yes Lilly, I know there are Asian women with dark skin and Iknow they are hated too. But it is still the truth that Asian women, (the ones with straight hair and light pink and light yellowish skin, such as the japanese) are replacement white girls. They are just white girls with squinty eyes, that's all. I was not saying dark skin indian women are replacement white girls, I was talking about the japanese chinese, thai, etc. That is why white men love asian women and go after them, because they look close enough to white women and many white men view them as better than white women because they are "exotic" looking. And then we must remember many men in general believe that asians have smaller genitals. Which is untrue and perverted thinking because ANYONE can have big or small genitals!! But again another positive stereotype working in favor of asian women, men think thier vaginas are smaller and tighter than other women just because they are asian. And men think all black women have big, loose and dirty vaginas because we have brown, and purple pigments in our skin and because they think black women only have sex with men who have big penises. Which doesn't make any sense either because who can tell black women who they have and have not been having sex with? But the majority of people, especially men, believe in this. Especially because it makes men with small penises feel good about themselves in their minds.  But that is my point, this entire thing is not about asking honest questions, its about directing hatred and nasty stereotypes on black women to uplift others.

greengirl7 330 pts

 The Strong Black Woman persona didn’t develop naturally as a product of slavery.  BW were stigmatized as unfeminine during slavery to justify their mistreatment.  But BW themselves didn’t adopt or support an unfeminine image until recently, this is something completely new.

 

Here is how BW represented themselves predating the Strong BW:

Google Image Search - black women 1950s, Dorothy Dandridge, Josephine Baker, “Diana Ross young”, the BW who sang in Motown:

(Photos) The Supremes: You Can't Hurry Love - Original (Take 1) - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ7uXX9K7Sk

(Photos) The Marvelettes - Please Mr. Postman (1961) - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=425GpjTSlS4

or any black-&-white footage of celebrity or non-celebrity BW.

    All of them were feminine, elegant, and respectable -  not butch, not angry, not loud, not “keepin’ it real”, not gravel-voiced, not trashy, not speaking “ebonics”, and they experienced a lot more racism and struggle than present day BW.

 

The 2nd myth about the Strong BW, is that it came about as an unavoidable consequence of living in dangerous neighborhoods.  Other groups of women live in dangerous areas and are also experiencing hardships, but only American BW are adopting and promoting a masculine image.   African women for example are, unfortunately, experiencing a lot more danger and more hardships in general than American BW.    But it hasn’t forced them to become unfeminine, or to start boasting about the strength of African women.

 

The 3rd Strong BW myth, is that the Strong BW image helps BW.   This also isn't true.

--Feminine women are treated better than unfeminine women.   Being thought of as manly ensures us lesser treatment than other women.

--It is easier for women thought of as feminine to gain protectors and allies.

--Where is the proof?   If the Strong BW image is so beneficial, how and where is it helping us?   Shouldn’t BW be better off economically, emotionally, and romantically than AW, WW, etc. who are foolishly promoting the opposite image.

--The Strong BW is also seen as the angry BW, the violent BW, the ignorant BW, and the classless BW.    Because all of the aforementioned types of BW view themselves as SBW, and make sure that everyone in earshot knows they are.

   So even if a BW’s personal idea of a Strong BW is “An elegant, feminine, and independent woman who happens to be black”, if she goes around declaring herself to be a Strong BW people won’t see her version of a Strong BW, they will see the popular image of one.   This is the problem with BW trying to redefine the Strong BW stereotype.   It’s like someone going around calling themselves “stupid”, but not acting or sounding stupid.  In the hope that people’s definition of the word “stupid” will change.   And thinking it doesn't matter that everyone else is still using stupid to mean “stupid”.

dani-BBW 1784 pts

 greengirl7 Interesting, I read an interview with Kerry Washington recently about why she took the role in Django Unchained. She said she thought the character was really interesting and unique, basically a damsel in distress "locked away in a tower" whose husband comes to save her, versus being a strong black woman who breaks out of the place or whatever. She said she couldn't recall many black "princess" archetypes. 

 

I was on the fence about seeing the movie but Inglourious Basterds was not bad regarding the Holocaust, and I really respect Kerry as an actress and intelligent person. She has fully explained why she is ok with the role and movie, and the trust she placed in Tarantino so I feel more comfortable seeing it now.  Just not on Christmas, LOL.

greengirl7 330 pts

 dani-BBW I'm all for BW princesses and damsels, but this is not the movie for me.    It seems too much like a DBR BM's wet-dream; a bit creepy, Leo D. looks like some kind of preternatural conglomeration of every evil WM in history, and BW/BM pairings just don't hold my interest.  :raspberry:

Sunshine789 711 pts

 dani-BBW  greengirl7 Oooh! I am glad you brought this up! I hope BBW starts a post on this movie! I was on the fence when I saw the first trailer, holding my breath because Tarantino enjoys trafficking in stereotypes sooooo much that I was afraid it would just be awful.

 

But then after I saw it a few times, I decided that it was a good thing. I am sick of black history being erased as a part of American history, and I am sick of every "black" movie produced falling into the camp of "stuffy, respectable period piece" or "Tyler Perry". We really need more range available to our black actors/actresses, and we need a way to get the general public past their fear of talking about slavery and the facts regarding it honestly. Movies, no matter how imperfect they are, are the best vehicle for this.

 

I could see an entire genre of "slavery" films that become as common as Westerns - which I love. Awkward as the Xmas release of Django may be, it is actually an honor for a movie with a black star to get such a prominent release date. I feel that if people go out in droves to see it, it could really help open some doors in Hollywood for black actors, not unlike how the success of Sex in The City opened everyone's eyes to the idea of "Women's" movies being able to be a box office draw. We really need more "black" films that the entire public wants to go see in order to have more of a say in what gets green-lit in Hollywood.

Elegance 2096 pts

 greengirl7  

Cosigned 100% !!!!! I wish that BW would stop blaming slavery for this because right after slavery BW were still highly feminine like everyone else! It wasn't until maybe 20 years ago that BW (and many WW) seemed to become super hard and masculine. It's because now they see it as a way to protect themselves or a way to be cool when women did not think this in the past. In the past women could be mean and angry but they were still feminine. Excellent comment!!!

kiki100 630 pts

 Elegance  The masculinity in bw comes from their history.  Highly feminine after slavery?  Hmmmm