That Awkward Beige: The Unbearable Whiteness of “Plan B”-ing

That Awkward Beige: The Unbearable Whiteness of “Plan B”-ing

Was interracial dating your Plan B?

Author : Bill Drew ("Aabaakawad")

Author's Website | Articles from

Chris Karazin is interrupting this blog post for a VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: I know I promised Patti Wood part deux today, but frankly, writing the press release for No Wedding No Womb has my eyes bleeding. I know you’re all waiting with bated breath on the continuation of the elusive art of smiling, but I don’t have any brain cells left for today. In the meantime, I’ll bring back Aaby…since you like him so much. *stomps off like a petulant child, or Kanye West*

I’ll get to the smiling post eventually, or I may post it on the fan page. Otherwise, NOT TO WORRY! I have a fool-proof cure for a straight face:

jack terrier

Take it away, Aaby!

—————–
Aaby Aabaakawad

This is a post about whom this blog is for, and how inclusive we want to be about those issues with which Black women, who date the rainbow with intent to marry, may struggle.

Individuals embrace IR through a wide variety of paths, and from many different starting points. It is a process. Like any process, it takes time, and involves several steps. Those steps may not occur in the same order for everybody, and not everyone will complete every possible step.

One axis that any rainbow dater may be located on, I will call the “affinity spectrum”. Some will shift along this axis over time. At one end are what I’ll call preference rainbow daters, who are attracted to other races or ethnicities more than their own. At the other end are what I’ll call refugee rainbow daters, who are attracted more to their own, but believe that their life would be empowered if they pursued other races or ethnicities as a plan B. Somewhere in between are democratic rainbow daters who are attracted similarly to all races or ethnicities, including their own, and select mates based on other factors.

Me? I am a White male who is a preference (for Black women) dater, but I think more often White male rainbow daters are actually democratic daters. Black women? It seems to me that Black female rainbow daters are well represented everywhere along the affinity spectrum. Preference daters are sometimes labeled as “fetishists” or “self-haters”, but not here at BB&W. Democratic daters are sometimes labeled as naïve “idealists” or “disloyal”, but not here at BB&W.

But the one group that some IR enthusiasts, even at BB&W, criticize are the refugee daters. Refugee daters may be characterized as “dishonest” or “disrespectful” in the way they deal with their plan B romantic targets, or “pitiful” for holding an attraction to those whom they have decided to distance themselves. Their prospects for happiness are severely doubted by their critics. I remember comments on IR blogs, or IR sites, similar to these:

“That’s so sad that [she] looks at White men as Plan B. How would they feel if they knew that. I have never looked at White men as anything less attractive. That’s just racist.”

or

“It’s looks bad to non-BM when BW hate on their own men or feel BM are inferior. Not a good look to outsiders.”

or

“It’s sick not to look at all races of men as if they weren’t simply men. If you can’t do that, then just stick with your own, I would never tolerate being looked at as second choice.”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Let me present a more empathetic view of those romantic refugees. Especially Black women, who are the only group with a strong rationale for being in this situation.

As a practical matter, we have little direct control over what or whom we are attracted to, although we can pick places and behavior that over time might help us acquire a taste. Mostly we like what we are familiar with; this is simply a natural situation. While our mind might discern a better direction, our heart is entwined in habit and memory. Typically, it lags rational thought, for weeks, years, or even indefinitely.

In the real world, switching to, or even settling for, a “Plan B” or “C” strategy is actually a common occurrence, and unremarkable. Most of us are not pursuing our original (and perhaps still most desired) career. Did you compromise on where you are currently living; choosing practicality over a preferred location? Do you conform to a dress code? Do you vote your pocketbook over your ideals? How many of your friends were originally pursued for enhancing your career or other goals? Have financial concerns influenced how many children you might have, or how exciting a mate you might marry? Do you feel fabulous in that minivan?

Those black women who most need IR to empower themselves, are usually the same women most deeply imprinted unconsciously, intuitively, with the familiar archetypes they grew up with. It is a brave and impressive feat to go against your instincts, and quite rare. Please, let’s not further burden these strivers by implying some measure of defect in them because they have succeeded in pursuing men contrary to where the lightening strikes.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In my limited dating experience with AA women (not Caribbean, African, or integrated Black Americans), every one of them confessed eventually to an attraction primarily to Black men. I never resented this. I mean, what else can you reasonably expect from most AA women who grew up in Black environments?

Let me finish by reposting a comment by me back in June in response to Christelyn’s post My Story: Jumping the Broom with a White Boy. The inner quote at the start is from Christelyn’s post.

“If black women—regardless of class and education—were really honest, most will tell you that their ideal mate is a black man.”

This constantly denied fact (denied by more than a few BWIR bloggers) is a real stumbling block in IR relationships … not because of the fact, but because of the denial. These feelings are natural, should be expected, and not in any important way anti-race. There a few natural cosmopolitans, but most of us create our romantic target out of instinct mixed with what we are familiar with, at least initially.

It is assumed by many BW interested in IR that this simple fact will cause their suitor such pause that they may evaporate. Yet the little “white” lie (pun intended) isn’t really believed. So both parties pretend.

The truth is not awful, for mature people anyway. Yes, most BW open to IR grew up dreaming of a Black prince, and may still prefer such if all else is similar. BlackGirlInMaine has been honest about this in her blogging. She is in a stable marriage w/ a WM.

Sometimes this (non-BM as plan B) is denied with anger. But I have been in a few IR relationships, and, perhaps because I am easy to be honest with, every BW I have dated *so far* has admitted this preference. Sometimes the preference disappears, sometimes it doesn’t, but it was always there at her coming of age.

Despite all the angst, this really isn’t a big deal. Most of us don’t end up pursuing our first choice in career, romance, or location, but don’t consider that a tragedy. Human beings fall in love with human beings. Their partners either grow on them, or not. Familiarity eventually creates comfort, then ease.

I hate to tell you women yet another thing to be brave about, when you have been dealt far more than your share, but it is much better that he understand what your life has been about, what you have faced, and how you have evolved and why … than to try to have him think you live colorlessly. Do you really want him to be oblivious to your stressors?

If this level of complexity is overwhelming to him, he wasn’t worthy of you anyway.

Wish you all progress …

— Aaby

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ElfeV 7359 pts

'TYPES OF BLACK WOMEN WHO DATE INTERRACIALLY'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX3vdlRwlR8

The Working Home Keeper 7008 pts

ForestElfQueen Guess I would be considered a preference dater. Or would have been (past tense) since my dating days are over!

ElfeV 7359 pts

The Working Home Keeper yeah, i guess i was somewhere between 'preference' and 'democratic.? hmm. I think I started out 'demo' but positive experiences/habit/convenience drew me towards 'preference' for/comfort with Euros? Growing up I liked Asian guys a lot but one Japanese-American guy's parents(esp his mom) were sooo negative that it hurt my feelings & sort of stuck with me. i kinda steered clear of asian guys after that(lame but true). Later there was a really cute, mostly Vietnamese(his mom was part French) guy at store I'd go to that was like an ongoing flirtation but I never agreed to a date. He also asked me to his prom, IIRC. gah, I'm getting old. lolz.

but yah, for whatever reasons, the euro-am & later FOB euro guys' parents weren't a problem(not openly at least ..lol)

My reaction to the "refugee dater," for whatever it's worth as a white man who dates interracially:

If the reason why a black man is her "Plan A" is that she is vastly more physically attracted to black men than white men, then I would not want to date her. And why should she want to date me?

I do understand the "black man shortage" in the black community. As things currently stand, there are about 3 million less non-incarcerated black men than women. So if all black women MUST couple up with a black man only, then 15% of black women will end up alone. Dating interracially is an obvious solution to this gender imbalance.

But if a black woman genuinely is most attracted to black men, why should SHE be the one to "date out"? There must be _at least_ 15% of black women who ARE the "preference" daters or "democratic" daters that this blog post mentions. Wouldn't it make more sense for THOSE ladies to be the ones who date interracially, and leave the black men to the girls who are "ride or die" for a brother?

I guess I don't really understand the need for a black woman to be a "refugee" dater. As far as I'm concerned, expanding one's options should be for those who actually want to expand them, not something one is forced into.

I'm 23, I've always been primarily attracted to white men, from my second crush in 5th grade on. The only time I ever had a black "boyfriend" was in kindergarden in a all black enviornment. So no, WM are not my plan B, it's actually the other way around. No attraction to BM at all.

WM have always been my plan A BM would be like a plan C. I just have never been attracted to them. Yes I have dated and slept w/ a black man at the behest of my family and friends and let me tell you "the darker the berry" is a myth. I just find I'm more attracted to white men than black men.

Whether or not you see bm as your only option, may not just depend on if you live in a blk neighborhood, it may also depend on what your family lets you know is an option. As a kid I also lived in blk neighborhoods during that time in Houston there were very few mixed neighborhoods. But my parents always introduced me to every different part of the world, we traveled, so my world was big, they opened it up for me so that way I knew there were things and people beyond my neighborhood and they were just like me maybe just different color, at different food (which was always delicious) and I never felt ashamed or weirded out by who I was a black girl. Also I read a lot, which introduced me to a lot. I love Rick Schroeder too but I love Jason Bateman more LOL. Alfonso was too short but I did have a crush on Malcolm Jamal Warner, so I always could see something I liked. I went to a Elementary school in the richest neighborhood in Houston, old money, because my mom worked near there and because I was type 1 diabetic she never wanted me too far. My high school was 98% black because it had the magnet school I wanted to go to and it was in the middle of the hood. But out of all the guys in that school, I had a long running flirt with a blonde named James, one of the 3 white guys that went to that school. But I was so shy, I couldn't take it to all the way, I didn't get that till confidence till college. So yes, if your family has introduced you to the world, accepting the world, introducing you to world, it can make a difference in how you see people and your possibilities with them no matter what neighborhood you live in. Unfortunately, not everyone does or did what my parents did for them. The more I read, the more I am grateful for the family I belong to, it seems we were unique.

As far as where I stand. I have to say I believe it does boil down to where you are raised and the environment.

When I was younger kindergarten up to about the 6th grade I can honestly say I had a strong preference for White males. I was raised in marin County, CA and then later moved with my father to Los Angeles area. In Marin County (Novato) had a higher percentage of Whites. There was an Air Force Base nearby and thus that is what brought the diversity to the city. Nevertheless, I was surrounded MAINLY by Whites. I can remember my first and strongest crush was on Ricky Schroeder from Silver Spoons. (lol). I never even looked at Alfonso Ribera (his Blk friend).

fast forward to the 5th grade when I went to live with my father in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, and I was put in another predominately white school and area.

Then my father re-married a woman who was from Detroit (ghetto mentality) and she and her family had moved to Pacoima CA where it is all Blk and Mexican. Her niece and nephew went to a school called Maclay and that was pretty much an all Blk school. When my father left for location, she took me out of the school in the area where we lived (a predom white and mixed area) and put me in this all Blk school. She told my dad it would be easier on her since she was always at her mother’s house (who lived in Pacoima) and I was going to be going to school with her niece and nephew. If I had even mentioned a liking for White boys at this school or around any of those kids that went to this school I would catch a serious beat down. I had such a hard time. One, I was one of few light skinned girls there (who caught holy hell) and I felt I had to UP my Blackness to prove myself. I went out with the thuggiest Blackest most ignorant Black guys (1) for protection and (2) b/c I felt I had to overly compensate.

to make this long story much shorter, I can say my preferences changed DRASTICALLY to Blk men and Blk men only from that day forward (7th grade through most of college).

So I believe preferences do result in who one is raised around the most and influenced by the most.

I found when I was in predominately white areas my preferences were strictly for White. but then after moving and going to school in more Blk or heavily diverse areas I was influenced by what I was around and developed a preference for Blk males.

Also one wouldn't believe the serious pressure BW have on them in college to stick with BM and BM only. I went to a predom white University in Fla with a TOOON of hot ass White guys, but never thought once about dating one b/c of the unspoken pressure many BW feel when it comes to being exclusive to Blk men. and many of the blk women were man sharing all the Blk men as if there were no other races of men to be with.

I can honest say that within the last 10-12 years I have developed indifference towards BM. I don’t view them any more close to me than any other man. I do find a heavier attraction towards non blk men in the last 12 yrs.

A,

Good topic. I honestly don't think BW have as much of a preference for BM as we really think. I just believe many BW feel they have no other choice but to hope and rely on BM as their partners. Why? B/C we are not appreciated as women in the mainstream nor the Blk community. I also believe some BW hope deep down one day BM will put BW on a pedestal like they see WM do for WW.

You need to understand as well that many BW have misdirected anger towards WM b/c WM do for WW what BM have NEVER done for BW. So instead BW get angry with WM instead of the real source which is BM.

We live in a very anti BW society in where our looks and features and womanhood are constantly under attack. All the while, we see WW and other Non BW being uplifted and placed on a pedestal by their respective men. Also, we see that most WM (as well as other races) do tend to prefer their own.

Even in the Black community women who are closest looking to White are placed at the top of the food chain by Black males. And even though BM are some of the biggest perpetrators of colorism and anti BW venom, many BW still feel a sense of hope with BM b/c they are Black.

Many BW do deep down feel that if BM generally show no love or appreciation towards BW and tend to favor Non Blk and WW over their own, that no way possible WM would.

BW try their hardest to not see WM as a first choice b/c the reality is Most WM still prefer women who look like them or some variation. So many BW out of a sense of protecting herself or not setting herself up for larger rejection, simply look to BM even though she still may be receiving large rejection from them.

I mean what women in their right mind can honestly look at how the Blk community and BM in general treat their women and children and not wonder WTH is wrong with BW that they still place so much exclusivity in dating BM only. There is definitely more to it than just BW having this natural preference for BM. Nope don’t buy it one bit.

I don’t think its b/c its so much a natural preference as much as it is a safer option for BW who still feel they have a better chance of being attractive to BM vs other races of men.

"Many BW do deep down feel that if BM generally show no love or appreciation towards BW and tend to favor Non Blk and WW over their own, that no way possible WM would.

BW try their hardest to not see WM as a first choice b/c the reality is Most WM still prefer women who look like them or some variation. So many BW out of a sense of protecting herself or not setting herself up for larger rejection, simply look to BM even though she still may be receiving large rejection from them."

This is very honest, and I do think this is what goes on in the minds of many bw. They feel that if men who do resemble them cannot appreciate their beauty, then why would others? I think that is at the crux of the matter. This line of thinking, along with the other anti-wm BS that is dished out to BW daily does play a large part in this mess.

Quick! Everyone run for cover! hee hee

Hmmm, was interracial dating my plan B? Well, let me tell you guys a story. The time: 90's, the place: the deep South . . . lol. But, seriously, I grew up in the 'hood (majority black), and I attended majority black schools until 7th grade. During this time, I did "prefer" black men, but the "El Debarge" type. When I transferred the the new majority white school for 7th grade, the boy band craze was just taking off. It was then I forgot about BMs, lol, and I was in love with white boys (I thought I was Mrs. Nick Carter and Justin Timberlake lol). I was also falling for latino/hispanic men, which started after the viewing of Desperado and The Mask of Zorro (my first intro to the sexy Antonio Banderas). This continued until my 2nd year of university, when I started preferring latino/hispanic and jewish men while being open to dating any race/culture/religion. So that's my dating preference timeline. . .

I said this before, it's not for me to tell someone they shouldn't use non-BM as a "plan B". As long as that person finds their love, who am I to knock that. I have a friend who, while open to IRR dating, prefers/wants to marry BM (extra dark chocolate as she would say). I never say anything negative about her preferences, just as she supports my preferences for the "butter pecan" men lol.

*Occasional lurker coming out of the closet* :)

To the question: Was interracial dating your Plan B?

My answer is -- NO. No, no, and no!

Did I mention, no?

I've always dated whomever I was attracted to. It simply didn't occur to me that I, as a black woman, was only supposed to be attracted to or date black men. Since I could say the word "date," I've dated white men (amongst other men). I don't have a preference. Well actually, I might have one: for attractive, witty, bright, and engaging men. My boyfriend is whiter than fresh snow and I absolutely adore him. Everything about him is perfect. From the way his beautiful blue eyes twinkle when he laughs to the way he gets angry. He is everything I want in a man and I wouldn't trade him for a thousand black men.

On the other hand, I don't get mad at the "Plan B" women. Since most of them grew up in all-black settings (unlike myself), particularly the so-called black community which discourages black women and white men relations, it's natural that they initially only thought of black men. After all, wouldn't everyone say that most white men who grew up in all-white settings where "out-dating" was discouraged, tend to have a preference for white women?

I'm mostly attracted to either BM or WM, and I don't think WM were ever a Plan B for me. It's just that I don't think I'm really on their radar.

I've been attracted to WM since I was little girl, even if it was from a far. I grew up in a two parent African household, big family in Baltimore, which is mostly black, but very segregated by the way. When I was younger, most of the WM I were attracted to were on TV because like I said whites didn't really interact with us blacks in Baltimore, and still really don't, but that's another topic. I lived in a mostly black neighborhood and went to an all black elementary school, so all black friends.

Middle school was my first interactions with whites and other races. My middle school was like half black, and half other races. However, I was placed into an advanced academic program and most of my classmates were white. However, again, it was segregated, so I had mostly black friends in middle school. It made me feel some kind of way because even though I found some of the white guys at my school attractive, I knew they wouldn't even think of dating me.

High school was similar to middle school. 70% inner city public black school. Again in an advanced program, mostly white program, but they wanted nothing to do with blacks. Sigh, again, because a lot of them were cute. I had mostly black friends, but the black guys weren't checking for me either. I think I was asked out once.

Undegrad. PWI large state college in the DMV. My first time in a mostly white large environment. I was very uncomfortable at first. But gorgeous white men everywhere. OMG. lol. Again, but they don't show interest in me. Only about a handful of BM were attracted to me, so I didn't date much in undergrad.

Just started grad school a few weeks ago at same PWI. It doesn't seem like much has changed really. Still struggling to attract men I'm attracted to. So again, it's not that I noticed WM as a last minute thing. I really don't know why since they usually don't reciprocate my feelings, but I've always been attracted to them. I just need to find some that are attracted to me.

Mel says,

Undegrad. PWI large state college in the DMV. My first time in a mostly white large environment... gorgeous white men everywhere. OMG. lol.

-----

That's how I felt when I got to college, too! I went to a predominately white school as well and there were just gorgeous white men everywhere. I mean, a few times I had to stop staring at some of them because I was afraid they might figure out I was dreaming of doing them (maybe TMI, but it's true!). I was like a kid in a candy store; I wanted to get a bit of them all. And... I did. ;)

Mel, sounds like you'll be mobile after college. Move to NYC, CA, Twin Cities, or Hawaii. You'll have NO PROBLEM finding what you seek.

Just giving everyone notice: I MUST greatly reduce my blog stalking for the next few weeks as I prepare for the Law School Admission Test. After I take the exam I will be back! But don't think I stomped off in a snit or stopped wanting to be a part of this beautiful BWE-IR community. See you all October 9th!

Good luck Amber T., you'll do great.

Amber, shame on you. Who needs law school when you have us? Good luck, and make us proud!

Good Luck. Me, I have to prep for the bar after May. Good luck on your journey.

Wishing you good luck as well, Amber T!!!

I like the blog, very insightful and true. I personally, don't have time to resent anyone for their choices, they are grown people and have a right to them as I have a right to mine. But I do think that for some bw, wm are Plan B, what can you do it is, what it is. Personally, wm were never a Plan B and although I have some wonderful bm in my family, I was never really gaga over bm. However, I was always gaga over tall men so I think they influenced me there. I personally find men of all races attractive, I can find a nice looking man in any race but that doesn't mean I want to date all those men or would be open to dating them all. I personally find I'm cultural when it comes to dating than racial, it's important than the guy and I share the same culture, American. I've known so hot hispanic guys but hispanic culture and how they treat women is different than American so it wasn't always a good fit. I've always loved white guys since I was in 2nd grade it's been that way. I grew up in black neighborhoods but my family was middle class so as kids we were exposed to everything and everyone, my mother made sure we saw the opera as well as the blues festival. So it's never been a headache or a problem for me to transition among people, in fact it's quite easy. And I went to school in white suburb in middle school and I went to the oldest black high school in Houston, TX but it wasn't like I felt dedicated to anyone. I was dedicated to me and my choices, I didn't date till college cause I was little shy but I started to date I dated white guys by then I'd moved to Seattle. It wasn't like black guys didn't notice or didn't ask I just didn't want to date them, so I made the choice not the guy. I dated who I wanted and I ended up marrying a white guy, now our marriage didn't work out but that didn't turn me off of white guys, they were and are my preference and I'm okay with that and I don't feel any need to explain or rationalize it to anyone. I'm getting married again and he's a white guy and a tall one LOL. But yes we have a lot in common, we're both college grads, we both come from big close families, we enjoy the same music (everything from hip hop to rock n' roll to funk n' soul to the standards), we're both affectionate, now those are the things that mattered and those were the things I didn't get in my first husband. So really for me commonality, not skin color was most important.

I thought long and hard about this, I didn't have a plan A or B. I was going to get married to someone from a Guyanese background, because my parents were from Guyana. I was born in UK, and I remember at 15, the class had a discussion about interracial marriages, most girls say that they wouldn't mind marrying men from a different race, but their parents would object, I said I would not because of the culture differences and he would from Guyanese background, my parents, particularly my father insisted on it.

Eleven years later I did marry a man from Guyanese background, but it was a disaster, in the beginning of the marriage was fine, but it was very difficult, I don't blame my ex husband, but I think for many of us born in the UK, marrying to West Indian or Guyanese men born, who were brought up in West Indies/Guyana. It was a disaster waiting to happen. We loved our sausages, they hated it, we loved football (soccer), they loved cricket, we couldn't cook right and we were not being black enough. We were not real black people. They ripped our upbringing apart, our friends, everything.

We were not compatible at all and I was in a state of shock after my divorce, I needed to think again and I realised and I admitted to myself I have been alway attracted to non-black men and those are the ones who spoke to me at primary school, secondary school, at college and at university.

The bank manager instead of discussing my finances, we talked about Lord of the Rings.

After my divorce, I decided I was going to be with someone who fitted me, I dated an Arab man, he was very sweet and kind and now I am in the process of starting a relationship with another man, he's white causasian with mixed heritage, Eastern European and Irainian, but he was born in the UK and like me, we like the same things.

I harbor a little bit of a grudge toward the refugee daters. I'll admit it.

My very first preference was for WM, from the earliest I can remember. I also have a deep attraction for Asian men. There's just something very compelling there that I don't even fully understand; but that's who I'm attracted to.

It makes me unhappy that people are looking at my marriage and thinking I "turned to" an Asian man out of some desperate thirst for a black man that I couldn't get satisfied. I would not choose a BM for a partner, period. I don't often find them attractive anyway, but even if I did there'd be a whole host of issues to deal with.

I would not choose a man who told me his first preference was another raced woman, no way. The thought that a man would be secretly wishing I were Korean makes my stomach hurt. I suppose that's why people lie about it. I know DH certainly didn't tell his WW exes that his first choice would be a BW, lol!

I don't think it has to translate to secretly wishing their mate was another race. If I end up with a WW (possible, I am surrounded by them) I am not going to be wishing she were Black. I am going to adore her.

But if you end up with a WW, would you tell her that your preference is a BW? (If your preference is not a BW, ignore this. I'm making an assumption lol.) And if you told her, how do you think she would react to it?

Don't think I have a choice: I'm all over the innernetz.

You know if you dated your own race at first and then at some point you started to date or maybe married someone of another race. I wonder what that past partner thinks? Do you think they think they turned you to that or that you got desperate? You know like the guy whose ex-girlfriend became a lesbian. I'm not saying I care but I'm just curious like that, LOL.

The reactions would probably be all over the map according the ex's personality.

I am a BW dating a WM. My boyfreind and I got into a fight about something unrelated, but he made the comment that I secretly desired a BM. Since I am into R&B music, Soul food and grew up in a predominatly Black neighborhood, he assumed I was pro-Black and this meant I wanted a BM. I was highly insulted. I have always had an affinity for WM, even as a young girl. (And by the way, I am not "damaged," I grew up with the best dad in the world, and I look for similar qualities in a man.) Don't tell me what I desire, I'll tell you what I want. For me to date a BM he would literally have to be the last man on earth. BM are more like my plan D, E, or F.

I have to sleep in advance of working an overnight shift, so I'll be back tonight. Looks like the conversation is going well.

Aabaakawad, you are very understanding.

I guess my experiences echo Monique’s, except I never had crushes on guys of other races as a child or adolescent. However, my first bf (high school) was white. He was just a really cool guy, we attended a predominately black high school so all his friends were black but he had never dated any black girls, or anyone I knew (which was a plus). We broke up in college and from there I primarily dated black guys, but with sprinkles of the rainbow thrown in. There were white frat guys I hung out with platonically, a Mexican-Chinese student who had a serious crush on me, white guys who hit me up on black planet (back in the day), my serious crush on a Filipino guy post-college, and so on. I guess I’ve just always gone with the flow, but over the last year I’ve realized my preferences (who I was really attracted to) have changed from Will Smith/Dr. Ian/ Hill Harper to James Franco/Joseph Gordon Levitt/Ryan Philippe. For some reason, Black guys just don’t even catch my eye anymore. While my most horrific dating experiences have been at the hands of black men, I know way more really nice black guys that I either didn’t hit it off with or are friends/relatives.

I think I’ve just realized for a person with such an eclectic set of interests (politically I lean Libertarian; I like Bill O’Reilly, Bear Grylls and Michael Jackson; I enjoy playing chess and adore non-American food; just to name a few), I seem to have better connections with non-Black men. So now that I’m aware of that, I’m going to try and be a more open person, when I think rainbow guys are checking me out. I think God has been trying to get my attention in this area too; I also have a GREAT swirl story for the book that involves an attractive stranger on an airplane, an impromptu date and the Maine ocean (which is BEAUTIFUL)!

Dani! I LOVE Franco too!!!! I want to hear the story ASAP!

I am from a mixed race family, and I know that we create our ideal partner from what we are familiar with. My parents are both Jamaican and i always believed I would marry a Jamaican til I grew up and learned how prolific certain family members were and realized that might not be suitable choice. There are thousands of articles that point out that we frame our ideal partners based on our perceptions of our own fathers. And recently on Yahoo there was an article discussing a new finding which showed why so many couples actually looked alike, we tend to mate with the person who has similar features. Now we all know that there are many factors as to why we marry who we marry. To be honest i would love to marry my IBM (ideal black man) but I am also realistic, my IBM may not exist, this doesn't mean I won't date a great guy, but if i was to meet my IBM and a great guy (of another race), i would probably date IBM first and see if he really is all i thought he would be. Which kinda reminds me of Something New, where when she met her IBM she realized he wasn't all she thought she needed. Which sometimes is the case.

totally agree with you, did not know how lucky I was either. I did not know so many black men were failing as responsible, family oriented individuals until I got out of my little bubble. My family luckily are just amazing, I have very high standard for any future life partner and do not tolerate nonsense from anyone.

My dad was and still is a wonderful, loving, secure, proud, and strong father, husband, Grandfather, and friend. We had a wonderful relationship growing up and he set the tone of how I was to be treated in a relationship. I learned through my parents successful marriage how men and women were to treat each other.

My parents only concern for me when it came to men was that I was to be treated with love, decency and respect.

That trumped color/"race"/ethnicity/nationality. The continuation of similar values was of the upmost importance.

I was raised, socialized, and educated in a mixed/non predominantly black environment and the more I read about and hear of the way apparently most AA BW were raised makes me even more proud of and thankful for the liberated, non stifling, and non hypocritical way I was raised.

Physically speaking, I was always attracted most to tall Nordic looking men. Although I did not discriminate and dated a few guys from a variety of different backgrounds. White and black Americans/black/white, black/asian, and white/asian biracials/Indians/Asians/Europeans.

My feeling was, the ideal situation would be a man I was strongly physically attracted to AND one who had the family orientation, career, personality, drive, etc... that I was looking for. BOTH were necessary for me but I don't blame any woman who puts MORE emphases on the family orientation, career, and drive over the sparks, because in the end this is what's most important in the long run I believe.

A "pretty boy" is worthless if he's not performing his role as a MAN. To be dependable, provide for his family, build, and protect. To be a strong upstanding member of society. Women who are the most successful in the dating, mating, and marriage game I believe are the ones who concentrate on the INNER qualities of a man over the outer shell.

QUALITY over superficial things like color/"race".

That's been my observation. Women are usually the ones who are judged on outer appearances. Not men. IMO the gender role reversal that is rife in the "bc" is responsible for a lot of the negative outcomes in the "bc". Relating to relationships amongst other issues.

According to my parents, the first little boy to treat me like a Princess was a little blonde blue eyed boy back in pre-school. He apparently was my first "boyfriend" and I don't even remember any of this. But, apparently I named my younger brother Jason after him.

I probably jumped all over the place with this comment but to make a long story short, when it comes to men I always wanted to eventually marry a man that was high Quality just like my dad. And I found him in my German husband.

I agree with you Aabaaak about what you term as “refugee“, but the flip side of the coin also apply: Most White men in America have preference for White women or perhaps Asian women if it comes down to it. If we are talking about the environment one grows up and the cultural norm that dominates most American cities, suburbs, media, etc, etc.....with its obsession and deeply ingrained racial consciousness then preferring your own is not something unique to BW beyond those of African or Caribbean immediate roots. I would even state, Asian, South Asian and other women also prefer their own, but the 'B' factor applies in a country where you are the minority, sometimes a minority among a larger minority.

Another thing, many black women were taught for centuries by black men and the culture they grew up with that they are not pretty, their hair, skin tone and whole concept of womanhood wasn't appealing and that white men only want them for sex. So, there are deep seated psychological factors that play into why many black women consider black men the 'safe option', even thou its Not. As black women are becoming highly educated, increase their income level and go out of the segregated and ghettoized neighborhood in America, they will eventually go outside of their comfort zone and seek what and who makes them happy and serve their interest.

Another thing, many black women were taught for centuries by black men and the culture they grew up with that they are not pretty, their hair, skin tone and whole concept of womanhood wasn’t appealing and that white men only want them for sex.

The same thing's happening to this day. Too many of these types will call you every name in the book then dissuade you from dating other races. Uh, if you said you didn't want me, why are you telling me that other folks don't want me? These fools can't have their cake and eat it too.

Yesterday I read a story where a woman was being called a "fat bitch" on the train by some random scrub who continuously threw invective her way, but after she stood up to him he wanted to ask her out and was begging for her phone number! Can we say "damaged"?!

Anyway, I feel I'm "democratic," according to your definition. I've never felt attracted to one race or another. Whoever was cute and appealed to me was what I wanted. However, I tend to find a disconnect between myself and certain black men. There are the ones who I've encountered who are aggressive (similar to the woman's story I posted above), or the ones who I do connect with on a friend level, but who for some reason want to control me. I've had many black male friends have crushes on me, have the hardest time understanding why I'm not attracted to them (nothing to do with them being black, just them not being compatible), and who for some reason want to have an input in who I date, what I do with my hair (I had one male friend tell me not to cut my dreads off and to keep my hair long---not his choice! I let him know that), etc. Even the "nice" ones have issues. Shame.

HODAN,

Great point. I believe that decades and centuries of BW being made to feel that our skin, hair and features are the "least" desirable not just in mainstream but in our own commiunities, lends to an almost battered woman dependance on BM.

You know the battered woman whose husband that abuses her constantly tells her "she is ugly. not good enough. no one else will want her"?So BW just hopelessly depend on BM and stick with BM like a battered woman whose emotionally and mentally dependant on him even though he is not uplifting her.

Thank you Aaby for your insights and I agree with you and the comment from Bunny 77. I am from Jamaican origin, but was born and raised in a predominatley AA construct. I didn't go to school with a mixture of children until I was 10 or 11 years old. I had crushes on the white boys in my class, but I also had crushes on the black boys. As I got older it just seemed "natural" that I would date and marry a black man. They were the ones who were mostly around me and in my environment, we were friends, lived in the same neighborhoods, listened primarily to the same music and shared similar coming of age experiences.

As I entered young adulthood and started dating, I primarily dated BM again bc it just seemed the "natural" thing to do, and because growing up in a predominately Black community, I picked up almost through osmosis that BW must be with BM. I liked WM and had a few who were friends but I didn't think they wanted me romantically nor did I see them as viable romantic partners. They were the amorphous "White Man", unfamilar to me and really unknowable. I didn't see WM as just MEN. BM were familiar, "knowable", present and available and back then I just knew I'd marry one. As I dated more I saw the insecurities and issues that BM had, I saw their reluctance to face them and I felt the sting of their rejection over and over again. I just could not understand why they did not seem to want me or at least want me as a wife and life partner and not just a F**k buddy.

As I matutred I realized that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again expecting a differnt result and that if I wanted to be a wife and life partner to a man, I needed to find men who wanted and valued those things as well. For me, I found that most white men wanted and valued those things, so I set myself to dating them. Because I have always found WM attractive physically it was not hard for me to be with a WM. But it was challenging and scary to "be" in their world. A world I was unfamiliar with and unsure of myself in.

I am educated (I'm an attorney), I've traveled all over the world, I enjoy differnt foods, music and cultures, but it was difficult to be intimate (not necessarily sexuaully intimate) but truly intimate with a WM bc I didn't think they would "get me," I didn't think they would understand me and my experiences. But they did once I changed my perception about race and myself and started to truly see white people on the whole as simply people and WM as simply men and not "WHITE HEGEMONIC POWER" to be fought.

I still love BM, I love the ones that I know, who are in my family and in my circle of friends. I see all their faults, shortcomings and BS and have NO problem calling them on it in a minute. My blinders are off and I see people as individuals, people to be vetted to see if they add any value to my life regardless of race, sex or class. I date WM and other non-BM because I can... I didn't think I could before and it was an epoch shift in consciousness for me to realize that I can date whoever I want. That's freedom. WM aren't Plan B for me. They are simply a part of my plan to date men who value me and share in my values, who want the same things I want and are willing to commit, marry, provide for and protect.

People are where they are and they make choics based on where they are in their life's journey. The process I went through to feel more comfortable to date non-BM was my process, it's neither good bad or indifferent, it was simply my process; I am aware it is differnt from others. This process is what contributes to the "stuff" that makes me, me. Do I prefer BM? I used to, when I first started dating non-BM. But now, with time, experience and an openness to change and grow, I don't prefer any one race over another. It's taken me almost my whole life to say that. So, I agree with Aaby that for some, not all it's a process and that process should be acknowledged and respected.

Monique said: "As I dated more I saw the insecurities and issues that BM had, I saw their reluctance to face them and I felt the sting of their rejection over and over again. I just could not understand why they did not seem to want me or at least want me as a wife and life partner and not just a F**k buddy."

"But it was challenging and scary to “be” in their world. A world I was unfamiliar with and unsure of myself in."

"WM aren’t Plan B for me. They are simply a part of my plan to date men who value me and share in my values, who want the same things I want and are willing to commit, marry, provide for and protect."

*******

Thank you so much for your comment. It really echoes several thoughts I've had floating around in my head for a long, long time.

Monique said: As I entered young adulthood and started dating, I primarily dated BM again bc it just seemed the “natural” thing to do, and because growing up in a predominately Black community, I picked up almost through osmosis that BW must be with BM. I liked WM and had a few who were friends but I didn’t think they wanted me romantically nor did I see them as viable romantic partners. They were the amorphous “White Man”, unfamilar to me and really unknowable. I didn’t see WM as just MEN. BM were familiar, “knowable”, present and available and back then I just knew I’d marry one.

Yep... I'm also co-signing!

I remember the first time a WM asked me out. In hindsight, it really should not have been a surprise that he did so. We were in grad school together (at a predominantly white institution), we developed a great rapport in class, talked all the time and were just good friends.

Looking at the situation that I do now, it makes total sense that his interest would have become more romantic.

But when he asked me out back then? I was like "OMG, is this white boy really asking me out??? Why????"

I went out and we had a great time, but the fact that I was shocked that he would ask me out was testament to a general sense of conditioning that WM were "unfamiliar." That I could be good friends with one and even flirt with one, but we could never actually date. Also, in undergrad, I was pretty much invisible to non-BM as a dating partner, despite being cool with some of them. I don't know if that had to do with all of our respective ages and the fact that we grew up in a very segregated state, but my undergrad experience put it in my head that non-BM were off limits.

I even remember going to my grad school orientation and seeing 10 BW and 1 BM and jokingly thinking, "Well, I won't be dating anyone while I'm in grad school!"

The joke was on me... on that same day, I went up and spoke to a WM because he had an interesting fact on his bio. That started the friendship that led to the date. It's funny because here I was ruling out having a dating life because there was just one BM in the class, and minutes later, I unknowingly made a move that led to me dating a WM for the first time.

Aaby is right. If you are black and were raised by a decent black man (mine was a SAINT!!!) your initial psychology is conditioned to look for someone of the same race. Like you said, there's nothing wrong with that. It's natural.

Frankly, I worry more about the women who cling to "nothing but a brotha even though I'm emotionally and spiritually dry as a desert" black women. They protest the loudest; and as a result, often mess it up for other women who are open to a rainbow of possibilities. Those women need to set the bullhorns down. They kind of remind me of politicians who are so obnoxious about gay people only for us to eventually find them in a hotel room wrapped only in a towel while a call boy gives them a lap dance.

Aaby, I totally get your point here. I am an AA, raised in all-AA environments and most of my friends have the mindset that you described.

Thinking back, I can't say that I ever declared a BM preference, but I just assumed -- because I was around black people all the time -- that my future husband would be black. I thought IR dating was fine and was open to it in theory, but since I wasn't around any non-black people, IR dating was not a choice that I considered for a long time because it wasn't an option.

Now, when I entered more integrated environments later, then I was open to IR dating, but many of my friends are not. When these women hit their mid-30s though, many of them do start considering it... although with great reluctance. These women almost sabotage any attempt by a non-black man to approach by grilling him (especially if he's white) about his political views, asking him if he only has a "fetish," laying down the law that he better not be after her only for sex, etc.... not realizing that few men want to be put on trial for being non-black and daring to ask a black woman out on a date or two!

So anyway, thanks for your post and the food for thought that was presented. Even though this was not my personal experience (or the personal experience of other posters), to act like we are unaware of this phenomenon among a number of AA women is disingenuous.

As a BW with Jamaican roots raised in a Black community, I have always had a preference for non-bm, specifically WM. I went to predominately White public schools, then went to an HBCU for my undergrad studies. Still, I was always looked upon by other Black people as :not like other Black people." My interests, attractions, etc. did not fit the mold. This used to bother me when I was a teenager just trying to fit in, but as I got older, I found that it is more important to go with what feels natural to you, rather than what others see as natural.

yeah, that's exactly many of my friends sentiment and experience as well. For me, I never found any particular ethnic or racial group more appealing than others. I guess I'm the 'democratic' choice Aabaaak stated in his column.

Browncow,

The comments and posts of this blog, and some other BWE blogs, are dominated by integrated AAs, Islanders, and Africans. Which is fine, just not representative of most BW in America, who were largely raised within Black constructs. Not only do they have to overcome programming, but there is going to be a natural affinity for BM, which might never change even while they diligently pursuing a BWE agenda. The point of my post is that the myriad BW who are in this situation should not be shamed. And they often are by BW who should be their allies, either because of 1) their continuing internal attraction for BM while pursuing non-BM or 2) the rather self-evident fact that they are pursuing non-BM as a direct result of their profound disappointment in BM collectively, as opposed to simply being attracted to non-BM. I feel it is unfair to put them in this unnecessary double-bind.

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