Question of the Week: “How Can Black Women Rise from ‘The Bottom of the Barrel’?”

Question of the Week: “How Can Black Women Rise from ‘The Bottom of the Barrel’?”

Not sure if this is trick question, but okay; I’ll play.

Author : Christelyn Karazin

Author's Website | Articles from

Dear Ms. Karazin,

As a professional single BW who has been attracted to and is interested in dating WM, I have a question: why are Asian and Indian and Hispanic women seen as suitable minority partners but BW are seen as taboo? I’m just wondering how BW can gain more equal footing will ALL races of women and not feel like we’re the bottom of the barrel. I am spending some extended time in Europe and have seen BW on a pretty much equal level with all other women. The men are proudly with their partners.

Thoughts?

Jolie

Jolie, I’m going to answer this question, but with some hesitation, because I think this letter may be written by a troll-mole. You are using certain phrases that I hear often from folks who seem personally invested in making black women feel less than. You’d think this kind of poison might come from outside the black community, but it’s not. People–skinfolk–are the ones to gleefully spout and spread the gospel that black women are some sort of sub-human species that all the world is repulsed by. So if this is your backhanded way of coming in here to repeat to this audience that they are walking, talking crud sticks, congratulations, because you made it through the firewall. But you made it because I’m going to use it to make a several important points, so put your listening ears on.

To address your first question:
“Why are Asian and Indian and Hispanic women seen as suitable minority partners but BW are seen as taboo?”
Asians, Indians and Hispanic women don’t share a sordid history of slavery and segregation like black American women. Go to other countries like Italy, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Canada or France and you’ll quickly realize this “bottom of the barrel” business is American made, and PROUDLY perpetuated by an unlikely primary source: other black people, especially online where the cowards can spew their hate with relative anonymity. Sure, some white people may think it, but the level of gleefulness about the now-infamous OK Cupid study, about how all races of women were preferred above black women has been propogated not by white racists, but by black racists. If you currently in Europe as you say, then you can see this distinction for yourself.

Let’s stop and think about this for a sec. To take a line from Khadija, I ask you, “Qui bono?” Latin for, “who benefits?” Who benefits from convincing black women that they ain’t shit and nobody wants them? Follow the feces-laden skid marks and you’ll have your answer.

I will concede, however, that black AMERICAN women indeed have an image problem, and we can and should use a few pages from other disenfranchised groups who were at one time in American history also viewed as barrel sludge. But it’s going to take a Hurculean effort, and I’m not convinced enough black women care enough to get on board. But for those who are concerned and wish to organize, I would suggest the following:

**Buy “Black Woman, Redefined” by Sophia Angeli Nelson. Read it actively, and invest in several highlighters.
**Join the Facebook group, “Black Women, What Not to Buy.” We have tremendous financial power, let’s give our money to those that support us and our positive image, and starve out the others.
**Live the “No Wedding No Womb” lifestyle, and if you already are, pass the concept along to a friend, relative, peer, or total stranger.
**Get a passport and travel.
**Surround yourself around the people you wish to emulate. Learn what works for them, modify it and make it your own.
**Run fast and far away from anyone who seems invested in reminding you “you ain’t shit.” There’s an agenda there, you’d best believe it.
**Embrance self-reflection.

And last but not least, remember that it’s not your sole responsibility to influence how and what a group of ‘others’ think of an entire race of women. It takes a higher level thinker to judge people on as individuals. Stick with those guys, marry them, and makes lots and lots of babies, ummkay? The world needs more smart people.

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Kiwiwriter 611 pts

This is an interesting question...I'm going to write a little about it right here and get stream of consciousness, I suppose....

 

A lot of white guys are only starting in the last two decades to interact with black women on level playing fields. Too many of them only see or deal with stereotypes, and as Denis Leary says, "Stereotypes exist for a reason." There are just enough of them to be prominently visible.

 

A lot of white guys only see or deal with prototypes that we are all familiar with: angry black women, obese and imperious black women, black women trailing kids, and entertainers.

 

However, this IS changing, as more and more black women enter the middle-class work force, as more and more, people define themselves by their hobbies, activities, and workplaces, over their ethnic or melanin-content identities. That was what happened to me...the girls I met and pursued during and after college were in my classes or met through my profession of journalism, and we had something to talk about.

 

I think the "Angry Black Woman" stereotype is probably at play here...God knows I see enough of them in Newark. They yell and scream at Council meetings. They yell and scream at political meetings. They yell and scream at Parent-Teacher meetings. They yell and scream at me. Sometimes they call me, over the phone, an "Uncle Tom," which always baffles the hell out of me, because:

 

1. I'm not black.

2. Has anybody actually read "Uncle Tom's Cabin?" The original Uncle Tom was a Christ-like figure who practices non-violent disobedience to his evil overseer, and dies a martyr. It was white-run minstrel shows that turned him into a bootlicking toady.

3. What the hell does Harriet Beecher Stowe have to do with picking up garbage in the Central Ward?

 

When some of these folks ask me, in a high fury, "Can I ask you a personal question? Are you white or black?" I answer in my British accent: "None of the above, mate. I'm a New Zealand Maori." That usually leaves them stuck.

 

We see that stereotype very often on TV, often supplemented by the obese black woman who says, "Mmm-hmm," and angrily dispenses sarcasm and authority at the white characters. On TV, such characters are entertaining. In real life, they're off-putting.

 

I think WMs are afraid of running into either or both.

 

I think I would probably advise black women to value themselves higher...don't get tattoos, don't get body piercings, get that education, articulate your words, avoid fried foods, and dress the part. Your body and brains are a temple, and you should treat yourself that way. You're only as good as you think you are.

 

The Dalai Lama came to Newark last year for a peace conference, with some Nobel Peace Laureates. He said that if you wanted to achieve peace in the world, you have to have it with yourself first. One of the Peace Laureates, an anti-land mines activist, said you had to be angry at the way things were to motivate change.

 

They both had a point, but after a lifetime of being angry myself, over things I cannot change, I think maybe the Dalai Lama was right. You have to be the change you want to see in the world, and that starts with yourself. If you are not for yourself, nobody else will be. You have to like yourself as well as love yourself.

 

And I think that's probably true for any person, regardless of ethnicity.

Christelyn 8681 pts moderator

 Kiwiwriter Hi "kiwi!" I'm loving reading your comments--have you nearly made it through the entire blog?

Kiwiwriter 611 pts

 Christelyn  I've been wading through it pretty steadily, and I'm actually up to page 11. I have NOT replied to every posting, mostly because some of the subjects don't interest me (women's clothing), or I can't comment on (dating), or I can't view (my computer doesn't let me watch the video), or the thread is a little old. I'd like to keep up with the current issues.

 

I have given a LOT of thought to how your book will be turned into a movie, and I send you some of my thoughts on that, and I'm eager to know what you think and what will happen with the movie.

 

I thoguht it could be done about three couples, one an older pair, a pair in their 30s about to get married, and a younger college-age pair. The unifying thread to their stories would be that all three would be in the university: the older pair senior professors, the middle pair instructors, the younger pair students. That way they could deal with different issues from different age groups. It would require an ensemble cast, and the central thread would be the wedding of the middle pair.

 

I thought: Older pair: WM-BW

Middle pair; BM-WW

Younger pair: WM-BW

 

That way you can cover a lot of ground...the older family has issues with their kids. The middle pair is putting a marriage together. The younger pair is falling in love. You can have all kinds of fun...the younger pair, for example, could deal with the girl's family being hostile to the white boy coming to dinner.

 

I will be chiming in more, now that I've gone through the most of the whole thing. It's an interesting place to talk and write...a lot better than World War II discussion groups, where people get into flame wars over such critical questions as "Who's cooler -- Patton or Rommel?" and "What was the best rifle, the M1 Garand or the German KAR 98K?" or some troll barges in to say, "You know, the Holocaust never happened."

Brenda55 19273 pts moderator

 Kiwiwriter "However, this IS changing, as more and more black women enter the middle-class work force, as more and more, people define themselves by their hobbies, activities, and workplaces, over their ethnic or melanin-content identities.'

 

You are the second person, the other being an Asian Woman, who expressed this thought today. I agree wit this sentiment.  I had expressed the same thought when asked the question why I married my husband.  My response at the time was that his race was not a good enough reason not to. We had so much in common otherwise. 

 

In the black community which often sees itself under threat it is race first then what ever else you are.

 

Quite a number of blacks in this country still see themselves under constant threat and some are.  However a slowly increasing number see things diffrently hence the conflict one sees with black women who date and marry non-black men as you may have noticed there is the highest degree of angst when the non-black man is white. To some this is the end of black civilization as we know it. I would agree with this.  I just don't think this is a tragedy.

Kiwiwriter 611 pts

 Brenda55 Every now and then, I run into someone who tells me that whites are practicing "genocide" against black civilization in America, and I ask that person to try and explain that to me...and I get a long-winded gooblahoy about "spiritual genocide" or AIDS conspiracies, or crap like that.

 

I'm sorry...I'm a World War II scholar. I know about genocide. If you want to wipe out an entire ethnic group, you do what the Germans, Turks, Armenians, Cambodians, or Rwandese Hutus did. You choose your designated enemy, you seize all their possessions, and you butcher the lot.  The Germans took it to the highest level of bureaucratic organization, with all the tools that a modern industrial society can bring to bear...they stripped Jews, Gypsies, Poles, gays, and Slavs of their homes, possessions, and property, loaded them in overcrowded boxcars, and shipped them to death camps, where they gassed them en masse (or shot them by the score). After that, they stripped the bodies of their gold teeth for the Reichsbank coffers and their hair for socks for U-Boat crews, and cremated the remains. Today there are more descendants of Oskar Schindler's Jews than there are Jews in all of Poland, and there were 3 million Jews in Poland in 1939. That's genocide.

 

The white society of America very often treats black people like crap, spits on them, ridicules them, defames them, exploits them, overcharges them, mistreats them, harasses them, shoots them, demonizes them, requires them to work harder for the same wage, imprisons them, patronizes them, fears them, short-changes them, and ignores them. But they're not emptying out whole neighborhoods, marching the inhabitants to train stations, loading them in boxcars, and shipping them to barbed-wire enclosed camps and gassing them on site, en masse. They're wrecking lives, not ending them.

 

And regrettably, a lot of the people who are wrecking African-American life in the United States are African-Americans...whether it's a rap artist who sings songs about shooting cops and beating women or a thug who goes out and shoots cops and rapes women. People like that merely become stereotypes and an entire ethnic group gets blamed for their misbehavior. The rap artists know damned well that they are sending out bad messages, and get paid vast sums of money for doing so. The thugs know they are doing bad things -- I know this because our clergy members here in Newark confront them in the streets. But they do them anyway. What is wrong is blaming an entire ethnicity for the behavior of the stereotypes.

 

That happens to my ethnicities: the Jews and the English, by the way. We all know about the cheap and money-obsessed Jewish men and Jewish-American Princesses. The English are either ignored or made the bad guys. In the movie "Titanic," the English crew of the ship were all incompetents who kept the third-class passengers trapped in steerage. In real life, most of the crew, including the ship's captain, chief officer, first officer, all the engineers, all the postal clerks, all the bellboys, and the ship's musicians, went down with the ship, doing their duty. In war movies, the British are incompetents who don't move their tanks as fast as Patton. In situation comedies, the British are usually upper-crust and snotty buffoons. The only pro-British movies are the James Bond series. What happened to the English who invented all that stuff that makes the modern world go, and who stood up to Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler, and Galtieri when nobody else would? After 1783, the British have won 179 consecutive wars.

 

Incidentally, my ethnicity doesn't get a fair shake in New York, either. We have parades for every ethnic group BUT the English. The only time I ever saw the Queen's Official Birthday (first weekend in June) celebrated in the United States was in New Orleans. I walked into the parade for the Queen's Birthday just as it was starting in the French Quarter. Behind bagpipers, and British, Canadian, New Zealand, and Australian flags, I paraded with a bunch of other descendants of Brits around the French Quarter, which ended up at a restaurant where a singer rendered "God Save the Queen" and "We'll Meet Again" and other British songs, and there was dancing in the streets.

 

But getting back to stereotypes: too many people still see the "other" as a stereotype. But when that "other" shares the cubicle with you at work, or sits next to you in a college or graduate school class, the world sure changes.

 

I do know that I get irritated when I see black women on the streets of Newark covered with tattoos, dressed poorly, eyebrows pierced, yelling incomprehensibly and angrily. They bloody well know they can do better than that. They should show some self-respect. You cannot be respected if you do not respect yourself. And you cannot rid outsiders of the stereotyped image if you conform to it.

 

As for Black Civilization under attack: that's an interesting one. It is under attack from within and without, like many civilizations. It is an ancient and a modern civilization at the same time. Blacks are the second-oldest ethnic group in New York City. At the same time, Robert Gould Shaw, who led the 54th Massachusetts in the Civil War, wrote to his family, on seeing freed slaves shuffle by, "These are a people whose poetry is not yet written, but will sure be as enviable as any that will be written." He had a point -- we don't know how many Phillis Wheatleys were snuffed out by slavery, so Zora Neale Hurston and James Baldwin had to work overtime to make up for that. To me, a 49-year-old New York sophisticate, Louie Armstrong and Maya Angelou are culture. 50 Cent and Rihanna are pop culture. Are they both black culture? Is Rihanna a voice on a par with Maya Angelou? I don't know. I can't answer that one. I've never even heard a Rihanna song. All I know about her is that she wears revealing clothing, sings a lot of hit songs, Twittered her sex life to her fans, and let herself get slapped around by her boyfriend.

 

Being nearly 50, I'm at the age that many men and women, hearing their teenagers' music, yells, "Turn that crap down!" and moans about how lousy modern music is, and how suggestive it is, compared to the classic material heard when the speaker was young. HOwever, I do remember to bite my tongue before doing so. I grew up in the 1970s, the age of "Saturday Night Fever," disco music and fashions, when Donna Summer was singing "Love to Love You, Baby," and people were complaining about how suggestive those lyrics, fashions, and music were, too. They said that about Elvis in the 1950s. And he wore a suit on stage. So did the Beatles.

 

So I can't call myself an expert on pop culture, except to ask...why, exactly, is Kim Kardashian famous?

SirLoinDeBeef 2490 pts

I fail understanding the concept of BW at the 'bottom of the barrel' - my Brenda was still ripe on the tree, never barreled, when I found her - she had high standards, but somehow, I managed to measure up (somehow manage to keep doing that, too).

As mentioned in a previous post, the accomplishment of this 'apple' cost me a lot of career, job, family, etc. - but was worth it, the REWARDS being far more than the present-at-that-time (meeting her).

Maybe I'm just 'getting a boat' in old age ... you know, 'getting a little dinghy!'

VintageNarcissa 3151 pts

I think it's quite clear that American in general is effed up when its comes to race relations. Honestly, I think it boils down to the fact that America is one big marketing strategy. Black women are not at the bottom of the barrel, we just have the least marketing.

 

As a reserved person and an introvert. I kind of like the idea of black women being this hidden gem. And only people who dare to venture our way truly get to benefit from associating with us. While black women may marry IR the least, our IR marriages are the strongest. Whenever you hear a white or non black man talking about his association with a black woman, he speaks of her with nothing but reverence, respect and admiration. I always fall back onto Kevin Costner's speech and Whitney Houston's funeral and how he sounded like he was speaking about his wife, instead of someone he'd costarred in a movie with 20 years ago and seemingly had little contact with since. Truth is, some people don't deserve to know how good we are, so let it be so. In ignorance, they will miss out. 

 

I believe it was from here at BBW that I was one directed to a link of an article called "The White Woman's Burden" where a woman was detailing her frustration with white women's lack of success in interracial relationships with black men and a tinge of jealousy in how white men who have black partners "put their women on pedestals," were the almost exact words. And I was sitting there reading, like really? You're on the world's pedestal and you're worried about a few black women getting treated right? 

 

But it goes to show that power of quality over quantity. Just because other women have "better" marketing, or more frequent marketing does not mean that the quality of quality black women is not valuable. I think it would be great of black women had an overall better presentation to the outside world, but I don't think it's necessary. I think black women who are most determined to be happy will in fact be happy. 

 

On a side, but related not. It was hilarious, the other day my boyfriend and I were discussing the prospect of him reenlisting into the Marines and how much money he would make if we got married and he was stationed in Japan. He called up a buddy of his who was stationed in Japan to ask about his pay and the first thing the guy said was "Yeah, the pay is great and Japanese girls are so much better." BF had the guy on speaker, so I could hear, lol. And BF was like, what the hell am I going to do with no Japanese girl when I've got my perfect girl right here? Trust and believe no marketing led him to that conclusion :) 

 

wanderingdreamer 8673 pts

 VintageNarcissa I think it's quite clear that American in general is effed up when its comes to race relations.<<<  I keep hearing these stories and I am coming to the conclusion that you must be right. As an outsider looking in, none of this makes any sense to me. I have never heard a man say that black women are any less beautiful or talented than any other race.

 

If America makes you  feel that way, maybe come to Europe.. :)

ElfeV 7070 pts

 wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa Pearl Rose "...If America makes you  feel that way, maybe come to Europe.. :)"

 

LOL! I think my husband is getting burned-out on the USA already(it was my suggestion to move here in the first place, he didn't want to at first). It's been good in lots of ways: being near my parents(esp for the end of my father's life, I'd've died/gone crazy I think being so far way) while the children are young. However I think France will be much better for them as they get older, esp as teens.

 

We're like the outpost(much like my parents were the West Coast station for our Eastern and Southern US family BITD), so family & friends pass through. With the kids it's easier for dh's family & our pals to come here for visits. The children are at an international school & they're keeping up with French education standards so the eventual transfer back should be less bumpy.. I hope.

 

My guess is that we'll be here a few more years at the most? It goes in seasons though..one month it'll be me, then next him. Not concrete moving plans yet..but eventually 'Southern France, here we come!' Dunno if I could bear Paris again anytime soon to live.(i'm not much of a city gal, except for the shopping & arts/culture aspects lol)

 

 Pearl Rose  Hi!!!!! I wasn't sure until the other thread if you were *the* Pearl.LOL ((hugs)) It's so nice to hear from you again!!<3

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 ElfeVerte  wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa 

Nice to hear from you all too! My mom wanted me to get out the house more.. so that's what I was doing. lol

ElfeV 7070 pts

 Pearl Rose  wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa 

I need to take that advice myself! LOL ...BTW, I was "ForestElfQueen"(I changed my ID)

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 ElfeVerte  wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa 

I was just "Pearl." I didn't want to appear as a new person, so I put an Aaliyah icon up (she's the usual icon).. I just LOVE Livefyre! I have the same technical person.. probably because I use the same email lol

wanderingdreamer 8673 pts

 ElfeVerte  VintageNarcissa  Pearl Rose cities are good if you are single...

 

where do you think you will move to in southern France?

The Working Home Keeper 6552 pts

 Pearl Rose  ElfeVerte  wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa Glad you're back Pearl!

ElfeV 7070 pts

 wanderingdreamer  VintageNarcissa  Pearl Rose My husband likes Montpellier, I liked Marseille. 

 

I agree larger cities are awesome when you're single. ...also for young married(maybe w/only one child) or older empty-nesters.  

GG123 359 pts

 wanderingdreamer

 Soo dream and desire to live abroad! Hope to study soon abroad!

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 VintageNarcissa I like the "hiddeness" too! Me being called too mysterious all the time. Black women really are gems, though!

IAOSingleMoms 872 pts

 VintageNarcissa "I think it's quite clear that American in general is effed up when its comes to race relations. Honestly, I think it boils down to the fact that America is one big marketing strategy. Black women are not at the bottom of the barrel, we just have the least marketing." <<<<<< I LOVE this!!! Totally different way of looking at this entire situation. I've heard so many times from foreigners and even other black women from different countries that they have not had the same unique experiences black women in America have had.

 
eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

 VintageNarcissa I've never had a bad experience as a American bw dating IR, maybe ppl got issues but I could careless about 'people'. I never had any trouble finding dates, hell I've been married to 2 wm. Maybe it depends on which section of the U.S. you find yourself. But it's getting less and less like that in those sections. I'd love to move to Europe one day but it won't be for the wealth of IR, I had that in my hometown. But I agree with everything else you said. 

 

Joyce345 1738 pts

 eugeniaberg   VintageNarcissa 

100% AGREE! Most of the supposed hurdles to bw dating out are just in their heads. Straight up.

 

MEN are generally attracted to WOMEN and vice versa. If a man doesn't like a woman, it is most likely not because of race.

 

Plus a lot of the bw who scream loudly that they would never date a white man only do it because they think/believe that wm despise them or only want them for sex or whatever.

 

Kind of like the young women who go around screaming that they don't need marriage. A few genuinely don't want marriage but most only say that because they are scared that no one will ask for their hand in marriage.

 

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@Joyce345 I found that all non-bm were waiting for was whether you were into them. All the NBAB bw were so vocal many men just thought that's all we wanted. My hubby told me that, once upon a time he thought bw just didn't want anyone but bm. Once they figure out that yes you're open, we're they're all over it. That's why I love BB&W and places like it. Because the women who are exercising their options should be way more vocal about it, to drown out the NBAB crowd.

VintageNarcissa 3151 pts

eugeniaberg Joyce345

I say this all the time, that the biggest deterrent for black women dating IR is black women. It's not even about people telling black women that they're the bottom of the barrel, but that black women are out there telling white men that to them they are the bottom of the barrel. And even though in our society men are usually the ones who approach women, no man is going to want to approach black women in  overwhelming numbers if they've already got the rejection before they even approach. Which is why I wish a lot of these black women would stfu about how much they're not attracted to white men, because it's messing it up for the rest of us. In this case I'm like yeah, okay you don't like white men, you don't have to go about bragging about it. It's really just another version of putting others down to make yourself feel better - trying to say that white men aren't manly or aren't as manly as black men, aren't as good in bed, don't have enough swag. Sorry, but the originators of real swag are men like Frank Sinatra, John F. Kennedy, Clarke Gable -- white men. Who had the panties thrown at them from all directions. Powerful important men. Not men who can throw a ball around and think that makes them special. 

 

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 VintageNarcissa  eugeniaberg   Joyce345 

Pleeeease! All this talk about white men not having swagger!! That is a freaking lie! I heard that the hat (backwards, sideways) were all worn by white men first! Even though I hate when guys wear their hats like that.. I'm just sayin' 

 

AND at least white men can have REAL swagger and be POWERFUL. 

 

Not just swag.. and a basketball

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@VintageNarcissa @Joyce345 I love it, I wish they'd STFU too. And GTFOHTBS! I sayit loud & proud I like what I like & I have a preference nothing to be ashamed of. I dont fetishize ppl I just like what I like. I'm glad that wm who like bw are being more vocal & letting other wm & non-bm know yes dude bw are checking for you. I hear more & more prominent women talk about bw exercising their options. They try to shut them down, they're still getting through. I heard a rumor today & this is a rumor b/c I hate to spread gossip that Ryan Lochte the U.S. swimmer is dating a bw, some woman from Love & Hip Hop I don't know how I feel about that. But it would be nice to know he's into the swirl, he is some kind of hot.

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 eugeniaberg   VintageNarcissa  Joyce345 

I seen that on Mediatakeout. Maybe K. Michelle is changing her style her whole demeanor.. from being a crazy woman. I hope she is, I heard that she dates 'hood' men, and Ryan doesn't come off like that. But if it is true I hope she doesn't mess it up for all the other bw, who may want to date him. And I mean, ya know, the guys who dated that terrible bw and don't date them anymore... I hope that doesn't happen... I WILL kill her

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@Pearl Rose I WILL KILL HER! I'm over here dying laughing.

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 eugeniaberg  Seriously! If it's true she better act right and if it ends shall it end nicely, so other nice bw can have a chance! I kind of hope she's not though...  just the way she is seems so.. I don't know, she just better not eff it up.. and to me Love and hip hop is full of trash. And she seems unnecessarily rowdy. I hope she doesn't mess it up, but if so... at least we know Ryan thinks black women are attractive.. yay!

luckystar428 208 pts

@VintageNarcissa @eugeniaberg @Joyce345 OMG. Yes! The BW who won't STFU about how much they aren't attracted to WM are the worst. Ruining it for the rest of us. Smh.

Toni_M 18697 pts moderator

....And the comment ended up being long anyway. :| 

 

I need a self-edit button....

DeepWater 2438 pts

 Toni_M   Nawl, "gurl", you did the right thing in lettin' cats know they can't hang that tired mess up in here........for real.

Toni_M 18697 pts moderator

 jen4321 

 

I had a long comment responding to you written but you know what? I'm going to take a page out of @Elegance's book and not put you on blast.

 

The fact is, you showed your hand. 

 

First your refusal to abandon the word "we" and insisting that the women here are blind to the "real reason" that black women aren't as valued as we ought to be smells very strongly of the GAT-DL "black unity" kool-aid. I just know you're hoping that we pick up on the "reality" where white racism is a greater threat to the safety and self-esteem of black women than anything else and that the solution is to "stick together". 

 

Second, your rather subtle attempt to put down books that encourage black women to date white men. I could give you credit for saying that the need for such books are themselves "cringeworthy" because it should be a fact that we are ALL human and should be able to date whoever we want. But your insistence that we aren't "appreciating" the reason why YOU insist that black women aren't as valued as they should be prevents me from giving you that credit.

 

Between the lines, your comment was a combination of concern trolling and polite poison. The insistence that all black women are low and unappreciated and it's entirely due to white racism and that we need to wait on the day where we are universally loved to allow ourselves to move up "a few pegs". In your comment there was fear and doubt and frustration that we refused to accept the "truth" - that we are all handicapped by white racism, that THAT is the major reason why black women hate themselves or feel low and constantly attacked, and that we need to accept this reality until such time as someone else gets around to giving us permission to love ourselves.

 

First permission would come from white racists (not happening) and secondary permission from the GAT-DL (also not common). Such anticipation would keep black women immobile and permanently in a state of fear, waiting for permission to love themselves that is not forthcoming.

 

 

 

And finally, and I say this out of love, you need to find your own voice and vomit up the poison that has been shoveled down your own throat. When a person is unable to speak for themselves, they need to ask "why". Why can't I form my own opinion about a situation? Why do I need a "chorus of voices" backing me up, and about something so soul killing as the supposed lowness of my self-value as a human being, in order to feel validated? 

 

The thing is....it's not accepted here. It will NEVER be accepted. And that's a wonderful thing. Why is it so frustrating to be in the presence of women who refuse to accept the idea that a black woman is not at the bottom of any barrel? Why are you so determined to make other women face this "reality" of being unloveable, unattractive, and the perpetual victims of ONLY white racism? For many of us, racism is old news. What's often swept under the rug is the compliance and gleeful encouragement of DBR self-hating black people eager to carry out the work of white racism.

 

 

And that last bit seems to be beyond you, and I can't help you. But I cannot allow you, however subtly, to try and peddle poison. Not on my watch. Godspeed and good luck to you.

Toni_M 18697 pts moderator

 jen4321 *not coming

 

DeepWater 2438 pts

 Toni_M  jen4321   Shut 'em down, Toni, gotta break 'em off (a piece of your mind).

Brenda55 19273 pts moderator

I know that there have been differences between the two blogs but when you nail it, you nail it and I'd like the ladies here to have the opportunity to read this.   I hope it says up.  I will understand if it does not however.

 

http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/waod/2012/7/30/there-is-an-us-there-is-a-them-solidarity-is-not-an-excuse-t.html#comments

DeepWater 2438 pts

 Brenda55   You got that right in that "Gina" brought the mallot out and slammed it on the head of the "Us and Them" mentality.  

 

What's up with the last "A" in Gina, Halima, and Evia blogs.............is there something to this or what?.....................bwaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaa.

DeepWater 2438 pts

 Brenda55   Actually, Brenda, that is what I wanted to say.   I'm just "getting hip" to some sore issues between the website entrepreneurs and am sorry that this is happening between y'all. However, I now feel, not that I did, but wondered, that I'm not "crazy" or "seeing what I want to see" with Black males and Black male-identified Black women.  Some of the comments in this the above link are DEAD ON, particularly "Monica" and "AJ".   I now know that I am solidly "justified" in my beliefs about the aforementioned (Black males and Black male-identified Black women).

MixedUpInVegas 1643 pts

 Brenda55

 Thanks for the link, Brenda.  That was a very worthwhile read.

DeepWater 2438 pts

 MixedUpInVegas  Brenda55   Yup, Mixed Up.   (Again, I'm sorry these ladies - entrepreneurs - have, evidently, somehow butted heads in the past).    With that said, that was a damned fine article with the bonafied truth - straight, no chaser.

chocolate_fashionista 190 pts

because of various personal experiences, at times i have truly felt as if bw were at the bottom of the barrel.  but then i had to take a stop back and analyze the situation.  after thinking about this deeply, i that there is no barrel and we are not at the bottom of it.  i think it's just a mix of jealousy from racist people and self-loathing black men and black male chauvinistic / no self-esteem having black women that want to keep bw down, more like crabs in barrel.  when you look at the situation logically, there is absolutely no reason to feel less than other women or less desirable, it's just a combination of racism and intraracial hatred at work.  the sooner  i realized that, the easier it was for me to move on and continue to have a positive outlook toward my life.  but honestly, it may be hard to conceive, but many of us bw wouldn't believe how jealous people are of bw.  they won't dare say it, but their actions show it.  and they are just the ones trying to make us feel like we are at the bottom of some kind of barrel.

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@chocolate_fashionista I believe it b/c I've seen it w/ my own eyes there are some other women who are jealous of bw.

DeepWater 2438 pts

 eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista   That's right.

MayaM 178 pts

 eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista

When other women who are "supposed" to be superior to you take the time to actually try to make you feel bad about yourself, there is something to it.  White girls actually pick on blackwomen.  When black women are being mean to white women, they are usually reacting to something the white woman did to them.  Black women generally dont start sh&t with white women. 

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 MayaM  eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista 

Black women and girls usually pick on other black girls. LOL (not really funny, though) 

 

I have met really sweet white girls, they tend to be extremely naive though.

 

But sometimes it's that white girl, or grown a** woman making snide remarks... IN FRONT of white men or boys (in my case)

 

Asking if my hair is fake or is in extensions! 

MayaM 178 pts

 Pearl Rose  eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista

But sometimes it's that white girl, or grown a** woman making snide remarks... IN FRONT of white men or boys (in my case)

 

Asking if my hair is fake or is in extensions!

 

Make this a practice of yours.  I had a co-worker who used these  replies whenever a co-worker asked her something she thought was out of line:

 

1.  What does that have to with you?

 

2.  Why do you want to know?

 

3.  Why do you care?

 

4.  So how does that affect you?

 

 

 

 

Pearl Rose 1182 pts

 MayaM  eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista 

Thank you for those tips Maya, but this was my TEACHER!! I was so irritated! 

 

I remember I was in the 6th grade and my teacher (a MALE, by the way) called me to his desk and asked about my hair (it was that fascinating to him)! He was polite and did not ask in front of everyone and I respected that, although I wanted to know why he wanted to know! LOL

 

But this woman is so UGH! My mother didn't like her and made that very clear that's why she was doing that to me. But what made it so sad was why was she making a problem between her and my mother, about me?

 

Pitiful! 

DeepWater 2438 pts

 MayaM  Pearl Rose  eugeniaberg   chocolate_fashionista   Word, that's what's up.

MixedUpInVegas 1643 pts

 chocolate_fashionista

 :::Wild Applause!!!!:::

DeepWater 2438 pts

 MixedUpInVegas  chocolate_fashionista   Here, here......I don't know how to do applause on the computer yet.......so, again, here. here.

Toni_M 18697 pts moderator

@Elegance That's not to say there's anything wrong with how you feel. You seem like a very kind and sweet person. I just wanted you to understand why I stone-wall such persons and their behavior. It doesn't matter to me why they are the way they are-when they take an opportunity to lash out and hurt other people, it becomes irrelevant and they've got to go.

Toni_M 18697 pts moderator

@Elegance I tried to reply to your comment but it's gone. I just wanted to say this: There are TWO kinds of people in the world with low self-esteem. There are the ones that need help and encouragement and then there are the ones you need to stay the holy hell away from. The first group is the group to protect. These are the women who are vulnerable to this abusive "no one wants you!" talk. The second group is made up of women who are low and want to stay that way. And they want YOU to be low, too. They want to put you down because how dare you think you are better than them. These people are DBR to the core and there is no help or hope for them.

 

This person has been on this site for a bit and this comment was out of left field for them because their previous comments gave no indication of the ugliness underneath. But the dig at "Swirling" could not go unanswered. The comment was malicious and so was the poster. 

 

If they feel bad, I really couldn't care less. I don't feel sorry for trifling individuals that go up into someone else's house determined to put them down because they feel like undesirable crap AND WANT OTHER BLACK WOMEN TO FEEL AS BAD AS THEM. And then hate on them when they don't - that part is what makes them poisonous, and that's why you need to stay away from these people. 

 

This person outed themselves as anti-BW swirling and certainly anti-black women. Whatever they feel about themselves is their business, and they have to deal with it. Just because someone is a self-hating troll from Blackistan does not mean they get to come up in here and behave like a fool. And it certainly doesn't mean you are required to be kind and compassionate even as they are spitting in your face.

 

There is no point in putting up with ugliness in your own house because you don't want to be "mean", "rude", or "impolite". I'd rather have such persons think the worse from me back in Trolladelphia instead of spewing poison here.