I received this note from “J,” a young man living in England who is interested in black women, but it unsure how to approach them. After you read this, you have to wonder how critics of “Swirling” say the book is “unnecessary. If these people read this note and STILL cling to that ridiculous criticism, then they’re as dumb as a box of rocks, nuts, and bolts.
Hi Christelyn here my questions. I would like to start by saying that I hope none of what I say is taken in a derogatory way. It is all meant with the utmost honesty and respect. Its just coming from a different culture back ground things can be different and also views of other cultures can be different but not always accurate. I feel I also need to point out that I have never actually been out or slept with a black woman before, I’m not sure why but I would say mainly because its just never happened rather then any particular reason. My family ( mom dad bro) would not have any problem with it. First off what would be a good way of meeting black women and also a good way to approach them? What about looks and style? I’m 6ft 1 but I’m quite slim I want to train and gain more muscle and size would that be a plus in the eyes of a woman? Also what about personality? I’m quite shy and that is something i want to work on for myself not just for relationship wise.
Now on a more serious note, my main question is, and this can be interpreted the wrong way, but I hope you don’t …. so here goes ….. Can a black woman really love a white man???? and not feel she as lost out somewhere? I ask this be cause where I come from in England which is not a very good area, that is some times a feeling I get from just on the grape vine and also from tv and reading. I feel it is a unwritten rule that black men and white women can date but not WM and BW and sometimes the black men and white women who date inter racially are the ones with the problem and don’t like it when they see it the other way round. Where I come from as well there are a lot of single white women with babies including white black Asian and exct babies. That is something I don’t want I’ve never wanted to be a single parent with kids by how many women. I suppose I’m a bit of a old style romantic and believe in true love that is why I have asked the question. I want my relationship to be mainly about true love and great sex and friendship will come with that.
This is were I don’t want you to take what I say the wrong way, and I know culture as a whole is different in England to USA. But from what I see where I come from a lot of black relationships are more about attitude rather then love but I suppose I’m seeing it more from the male point rather then the women’s. I have a lot of black male friends but not many women friends full stop. Also most the interracial relationships round by my which are mainly BM WW really aren’t what I want they are not in my opinion good healthy relationships for reasons you can probably guess why. I feel like I’m going on a bit of a racist rant here but I’m not I just want you to understand my concerns. these are some of the reasons why I am interested in black women. apart from the fact I have always found them attractive, I love the thick curvy body, big bums, lips and dark eyes. I also am really attracted to the fact they seem to have a lot of self respect, back bone and will not let any gangster rapper wannabe walk over them.
But like I’ve asked I would want to feel true love like I’m her number one and that she is full happy in the relationship.
Thanks for your help hope to hear from you soon.
Here’s my response to some of his questions:
FAIR NOTICE: I know lots of people will what to chime in on advice for “J,” but remember to keep it kind, cool, and classy. The purpose of me showcasing these questions is to facilitate a dialogue and give this community and opportunity to learn and grow from each other. That said, in overtly cruel comments and I’ll rip your e-tongues out, got it?
I agree with you Christelyn! Great video!
I was surprised to hear that the BM/WW but no WM/BW double standard applied in the U. K. I thought that was a peculiarly American mind set. With the U. S. having a history of slavery, even though it was over one hundred and fifty years ago, I can at least partially understand it in modern AAs. But slavery was eradicated in the U. K. many years before the U. S.. It seems that the evil history of slavery has imprinted itself on the minds of many African peoples and cannot be erased despite what has been done in the world to atone for this past horror, especially in the U. S.
But it does point to one inescapable conclusion: men—no matter the color—like women, no matter their color. And isn’t that as it should be? All of these ridiculous barriers based on race, religion or class should finally be considered the relics of a much older age. But humans, being no better than they are, must find something to make themselves feel superior to someone else. Your accomplishments are the only really tangible thing that set you apart and gives your life meaning. You don’t get that because you’re white or Protestant or rich.
“J” has run into the problem so many of us WM ran into 30-40 years ago. He has a preference for women whom society, at that time, declared off limits——usually for reasons he didn’t understand. He sees a pretty girl who happens to be black, but because of her memory of slavery and his fear of rejection (loudly and angrily), he’s afraid to approach her. As Chris says in her video, “I know some women out there are saying: grow a pair guy (OR) put on your big boy pants,” etc. but its not always that easy.
As one Jay to another, I understand. The first time I asked out the black girl who was to become my girlfriend in grad school, I was scared stiff, but that was the 70’s. Hopefully things are a little easier today. I’d say, “go for it.”
I wish you all the best, J. I can’t give any advice because I don’t know your situation, if you’re in school, working or already have your eye on someone.
From what I read, you have your head in the right place. So I just want to say do what Miss Chris suggests. She has great advice.
So, as FriendsofJay says, just go for it.
J, I’m 6’1″ as well and built skinny, just like you. Many women love our body type. I know you feel the pressure to have bulging muscles because that’s somehow “manly,” but that’s just not the case. Work out if you want to look good and feel better about yourself, but make sure you’re keeping in mind that women are much more interested in what’s going on in your mind, than your body.
Black women are women just the same as any other race, so you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find how feminine and tender they are – often more feminine than women of any other race. I say this because I think the majority of your questions can be answered by bearing in mind that black women are women, too.
My best advice is to start doing your reading. Read articles geared TOWARD black women on this and other sites. Read books geared toward black women. Due to your limited experience with the psyche and person of a black woman, you’re not quite sure that you’ll have any common ground to stand on. Read what’s important to black women, BY black women and you’ll not only learn what black women are interested in, but your simple attraction will evolve into a healthy respect and love for black women.
Good luck bruh, and don’t let ANYONE stand in the way of your search for love – that includes yourself.
Great points! It is important to listen to what black women are saying, and not just the black women who aren’t open-minded or the black men (spare us) who aim to teach white men what “black women” are all about. Lots of c++k blocking going on….
Excellent video, Christelyn! I thought your advice was completely on point.
Love the advice Christelyn, as for Jay a black women will adore and cherish you. We want to be approached. Don’t be shy and if a black woman has caught your eye, please talk to her. See where she is in her feelings about going on a date. I hope you find your love soon….
Hey J. I’m also in England (London). About a year ago I also wrote to chris asking for advice because I felt that although white guys seemed interested they would never really go seem comfortable asking me out. A lot of it really had to do with me as a person – I’m quite timid and consequently not the most approachable person. I definitely agree that sites like this one have been very beneficial to me.
On another note, a lot of people think of england, and London in particular, of being full of people in interracial relationships. I have to agree that it is far more common here than in the US but it is still far far FAR more common to see a black man in an interracial relationship than a black woman. I think a study.conducted a cpuple of years ago pointed out that 51% of married black men in the UK were married to non black women. Basically my point is just that black men massively outnumber black women in ir dating.
@MissCee 51%?? That’s more than half! Wow.
Christelyn…… Yes. You were on with everything you said in this video. Great advice to him. This blog continues to be a fantastic place for us to discuss exactly these kind of things… that quite frankly really need to be discussed.
Christelyn,
You are on point with everything that you have said. Especially when you wrote about how bw get angry because white men do not approach us because of fear. I have expressed this and now realize how wrong I am for thinking this. I also liked how you challenged bw to try to understand where wm are coming from. We have a reputation but also the AA culture is different. Unless you have been around AA you do not know the social cues of the culture. I appreciate J’s honesty on the subject. BTW… being 6’1 and skinny is not a bad thing.
Btw….. if you seriously want to meet a bw go to church. lol…
Be yourself J. If the quality woman cares, she will accept you for whom you are.
“How to Meet Black Women”
Um … find one you like, walk up and say “hello?”
@DWB 🙂 Yes.
“Stop trying to turn an elephant into an airplane.”
Woman I could kiss you for that. Keith and I have talked many times about that. We have seen this attitude from some black women who are looking for what does not exist. A non-black black man.
What follows are some hard facts. Take it for what it is worth.
Non-black men are the men they are they are. Deal.
They do not want to be black men. Deal with that also.
They do not want you attempting to turn them into black men. That is insulting.
It is never gonna happen. They will never accept you trying to do that.
*******IT IS A DEAL BREAKER IN ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM.*********
Non-black men will not accept being compared to black men. Another deal breaker.
Non-black men will not tolerate having the sins of their fathers visited upon them. If you as a black women want to, need to and insist on constantly re-fight past racial conflicts with non-black men then stop it and move on. Interracial dating is not for you.
Respecting and learning about a black woman’s culture is expected of any non-black man who dates and eventually marries a black women.
Respecting and learning about a non-black man’s culture is expected of any black woman who dates and eventually marries a non-black man.
If you cannot sign on for that then interracial dating is not for you. It is that simple. If that truly is the case where you cannot accept the non-black man for who he is then repeat after me.
“If you want a black man then go get a black man. Do not waste your time dating a non-black man if what you really want is a black man.
Non-black men, especially white men, are NOT the fall back guy. They do not have to accept that position. There are too many other women within their own race and outside of their race who want them.”
Take that to the bank.
@Brenda55 Hard truths, but truths none the less…
@DWB Someone had to put it out there.
@Brenda55 I have a funny feeling that more folks would except it hearing it from you rather than I … 😉
@DWB
True but I hope that non-black men who are dating and married to black women chime in.
Time for real talk and this is the place to do it. I see nothing wrong with laying all the cards on the table.
Just about every black woman I know would be insulted if they were seen as the fall back or if the man in their life tried to make them into someone that they were not or were not willing to learn about or respect their culture.. I have personally seen black women say and do really stupid things with non-black men, mostly white men and then wonder what the hell happened when he left.
@Brenda55 Very true. I assume that all of us were taught early that we should develop the ability to place ourselves in the other guy’s shoes and imagine that we were treated the way that they are … would WE like it? Would WE think it fair, right and just?
Call me crazy, but I imagine that it wouldn’t go down too well if a white (or other ethnicity) guy told his black girlfriend to hide/change/deny their unique experiences and culture.
I realize that I may have a unique perspective because I have been married for almost 24 years of my life and have never been married to someone who is of my own race, so I DO try to imagine being a newbie or imagine what it would be like to have only recently open myself up to the idea, but I admit that do sometimes have trouble seeing the perspective that imagines that … to steal a phrase … white men are from Mars, black women are from Venus.
@Brenda55 @DWB “Time for real talk and this is the place to do it. I see nothing wrong with laying all the cards on the table. ”
Agreed, it is time and this is the perfect place to do it.
@DWB @Brenda55 “Call me crazy, but I imagine that it wouldn’t go down too well if a white (or other ethnicity) guy told his black girlfriend to hide/change/deny their unique experiences and culture.”
And if he wants to do that, really, he needs to rethink who he is in a relationship with. Why do people always want to change the other person??? It is exactly that culture and those experiences that are so wonderfully enriching. Folks, you DO NOT WANT a carbon copy of yourself with opposite genitalia. Do you? Geez. Expand your horizons. Become more than you are by sharing wonderful differences with someone you can love and grow with.
@Brenda55
I thougt of this video after reading your comment .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4zNHJxtP78
@Brenda55 Preach!
@Brenda55 “Woman I could kiss you for that. ”
Wow, what a snuggly, loving community we have here….. “Where is the Love?” asks the Black Eyed Peas? Here at BB&W, baby!
@EarthJeff @Brenda55 I agree. We know how to be loving and warm…. How beautiful…….
@Brenda55 ”
Respecting and learning about a black woman’s culture is expected of any non-black man who dates and eventually marries a black women.
Respecting and learning about a non-black man’s culture is expected of any black woman who dates and eventually marries a non-black man.”
Absolutely. If you are not willing to do that, an IRR is not for you. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that learning about your partner’s culture is one of the exciting aspects of and IRR. If you dont DESIRE such learning and enrichment in your life… that is a choice you are free to make but being close-minded will be a huge wall to a successful interracial relationship. I wont go so far as to say it is doomed to failure, but it will be an issue.
@Brenda55 “Non-black men, especially white men, are NOT the fall back guy. They do not have to accept that position. ”
Thank you, Brenda. Look, nobody wants to be the Fall Back option. Love me for me. Or not.
@Brenda55 “Non-black men will not tolerate having the sins of their fathers visited upon them. If you as a black women want to, need to and insist on constantly re-fight past racial conflicts with non-black men then stop it and move on. Interracial dating is not for you.”
This is another one that we talk about a good deal on this blog, and need to. One of my early posts was on my Refusal to Feel Guilty as well. Slavery was awful. Racism is awful. I hate both.
I am not even going to apologize if one of my ancestors was a slave owner or worked for one. I am not them. Not going to apologize that my grandmother was a flaming racist even though she probably never even met or saw a black person until she was elderly. I am not her. If you want to be irritated with me because I stole a candy bar when I was 10 and stealing is wrong… that one IS on me and IS my sin (although, trust me, I was held accountable for it as I should be… didnt sit for days after mom finished showing me the error of my ways). But you need to judge me for ME. JUST ME.
“J”, it is no accident you found this blog and the positive energy of the people here to support your efforts in making your love connection with the black women of your choice. Your awareness and sensitivity about black women is very charming. The girl you do eventually meet wil be very luck to be with you. I believe in surrounding myself with people who honor and support my love goals/dreams. It’s a spiritual concept I live by and the reason I come to this blog daily. I wish you all the best and good luck to you!
I just want say the whole “you need to call tyrone!”
My new favorite line!
its true that the majority of IRR is BM WM or WM AW…..but one will never know the reasons for them being in such. You know you want a black woman but why are you sweating it? Most men know who they want but sometimes the woman has to be accepted bt the man. If you are employed, has a purpose for life and motivated to get who what you want then where does shyness come into the picture? Just go out there amd get her and be happy.
sorry about the typos
Would it be realistic for him to befriend other interracial couples? Maybe a WM dating or married to a BW can give him some incite as to how to approach BW and maybe which ones to avoid.
@EarthJeff @DWB @Brenda55 ” Folks, you DO NOT WANT a carbon copy of yourself with opposite genitalia. Do you? Geez. Expand your horizons. Become more than you are by sharing wonderful differences with someone you can love and grow with.”
This to the 100th power! I believe this is why people who are just looking to pair up with their opposite gender twin end up ruining their relationships again and again. It’s another way of saying you just want to be by yourself IMO.
“Can a black woman really love a white man???? and not feel she as lost out somewhere?”
The only kind of Black women you should consider dating will answer “Yes.” You’ve already received great advice. All I want to say that you are young, and you are going to meet many Black women who’d say “No” to one or both parts of your question, and some will be attracted to you or even go out with you. Try to hone in on the ones whose behaviors, values and actions seem to say “yes.” These women will be more open than closed, more sweet than sour, and more self-aware than not. Good luck, mate!
“Can a black woman really love a white man?”
Of course a BW can love a WM. There are plenty of BW in loving relationships with WM. Have a look at all of the loving and affectionate BW/WM couples on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLskOqj2H44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dPqxufJDwU
Ignore BW who loudly proclaim their dislike of WM. They are trying to protect BM’s interests, because they see the number of BW/WM couples growing, and they’re trying to put the brakes on it. Remember, it’s usually the worst members of a group that tend to be the most vocal. So don’t let the bad apples discourage you from being with who you want.
To overcome your shyness you may want to first try becoming comfortable speaking to BW. How do you become comfortable speaking to BW? Try making small talk with them wherever you happen to be.
(Remembering to smile.)
Grocery store – “Excuse me miss, how can you tell if a peach is ripe?”
“That ____ looks good, where do they sell that?”
Waiting in line – “Hi, I really like your hairstyle, it’s beautiful.”
Art gallery – “I really love ____’s work, it’s so emotional/vibrant/etc. “
Coffee shop – “Is that the new ____ flavor, I’ve never tried that. Is it good?”
~Where do you meet BW?
Anywhere women are present, and there is some socializing going on. Meaning, it’s best not to try to pick up women at the supermarket or post office; small talk is fine though.
Possible venues are: parties, outdoor concerts/music festivals, museums, clubs, wine tastings, or any popular activities in your area. And you can socialize a lot more, in general, to get more invitations to parties and other gatherings.
~Should you go to the places with the most BW?
I don’t think so, because the BW you’ll find at all-black venues will tend to be less open to dating non-BM. So even though the number of BW in mixed venues will be smaller, I think your success rate will be higher there.
~What do you do when you see a BW you like? Flirt and make conversation.
From a distance – Catch her eye and smile, if she smiles back (green light) – approach her.
Up close – pay her a compliment, talk about the venue/weather/neighborhood/hobbies/food/music/your dog/etc.
If she smiles, keeps eye contact, and prolongs the conversation (green light) – she’s interested.
If she gives short answers with little to no smile or eye contact (red light) – walk away.
~First dates.
It’s better to keep them easy-breezy: ask her out for coffee, to a café, or even just for a walk in the park. The casual atmosphere will help you relax and be yourself.
~Getting the phone number.
I think it’s better to ask the woman if she wants _your_ number, than to ask her for her number – because it puts less pressure on the woman.
~How to deal with awkwardness on dates.
If you’re feeling very nervous and it’s showing, don’t try to pretend it isn’t happening. It’s best to be honest: smile and tell her you’re shy and you’ve been working on building your confidence. She may be understanding and try to put you at ease and/or give you a second date. Most people aren’t social-butterflies and can relate to being awkward at some point in their lives, especially on dates.
Good luck.
I’ll date him, no problem. He sounds like a really great person! If only he could teach some of the guys in Jersey how to behave.
I loved how he asked the questions. I don’t think he was coming off racist in any way, but I’m glad that he even clarified where he was coming from to make sure the lines were not blurred.I’d date him in a second if I knew more about him, but I think he’s more my style of guy with the old school romance. I appreciate a guy that understands what healthy relationships look like and also what types of unhealthy relationships he doesn’t want to be in. He has really great morals and that is commendable for anyone who wants to commit to having a great relationship and also is open to discuss these things. Which him asking questions, I think is one of the most important things because he’s at least learning. 🙂 Loved it!