Ain’t I Beautiful, Too?

Ain’t I Beautiful, Too?

Photographer, Herb Way looks beyond the Barbie.

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Author : Christelyn Karazin

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You make me up, you make me down, but after one-two-three-four kids, nothing, aside from relocating me to the nearest planet with less gravity, like say, the MOON, will stop my boobs from sagging.  Well, either the moon, or $10,000 and a really, really good plastic surgeon.

Which got me to thinking about beauty in general.  And how we’ve been debating on who’s hotter: East African or West African, Caribbean, East Coast, West Coast, tall, short, pygmy, Pop Tarts vs. Toaster Strudel, light, dark, rotund, skinny or in between.

What makes a woman, specifically a woman of color, beautiful?  European model aside (damn you Barbie, daaaaamn yooooouuu!!!)

Okay, okay to be fair,  the nice folks over at Mattel do at least TRY to make Barbie look “exotic”  I guess…

Is it just me, or does this one look like Beyonce's doppelgänger?

I spoke to photographer Herb Way, the creator of Portraits of Eve: Women of Color Share Their Body/Soul Conversations, this weekend.  Herb, 61, has managed to get A LOT of women naked–but in a classy way.  Portraits is a compilation of nude women of color in various states of undress–some baring all–I MEAN, er’rything.  What struck me about Herb’s work is how he managed to make the beauty of these women shine through.  See for yourself:

(© Herb Way, 2010, all rights reserved)

These women looked at the camera, at Herb, unflinchingly, and they all had a statement to make about themselves and their bodies. “I regarded [the models posing for me] as a sacred trust. Many of the women that posed felt liberated, empowered, healed afterward.”

None, I mean NONE of these women look at all like Barbie.

“What I find to be striking, beautiful may vary from woman to woman. In general, I’ll say tasteful grooming, poise, gracefulness, sensuality, intelligence, articulateness, congeniality, warmth, class, humility, gentleness, a certain light in her eyes and a certain way that she carries herself. Physically, authenticity is very important. I hate weaves, wigs, and breast implants and I can do without the false fingernails with the designs on them,” he says.

"Portraits of Eve" creator, Herb Way

Thanks, Herb.

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My mom's best friend amazes me. Ever since, I've known her, she could always snag a guy without doing anything,but she isn't the person that people may picture her as. To some, she is considered to be very plain: no make up,no fancy hair dew,no jewelery and is not flirtatious. As a kid, she said that she was considered to be an ugly because of it.Yet she was able to get the man. Today,she's in her early 50's, tall and full figured, but she's able to draw men.It was her example that taught me about about the beauty and the beast.

There many men that I've found physically attractive, but I also find myself to be attracted to men who aren't necessarily that. Something about them may be sexy or their personalities may draw me to them and I'm really big on that.I guess that was one lesson on guy learned. I guess that he thought that just because he looked like El Debarge( I loved him as a teen when he was with Debarge and when he was by himself). Something just told me to stay 100 feet from this guy. I had a vibe about him that suggested that he was a player. The way he talked, the way he acted..a definite no can do for me. He just seemed stuck on himself. To me a guy that is physically attractive,but has a sour personality is ugly.

I couldn't imagine taking these kinds of pictures, BUT, I often bathe topless in summer at the lake. What's the difference?. I think it's the having to pose, to project something I'm not. Even my wedding pictures are shown with me hiding behind my ex and trying to avoid the photographer.

I might be curious enough though to buy the hard cover......

The awesome thing about sitting for a portrait with Herb, foosrock, was that there was absolutely no need to put on airs. These shots are the real deal from the heart and soul. There was a comfort level there that took what was inside, the real us, and Herb happens to be very good at capturing that.

And I sooo envy your summer lake time!

I'd like the world to take a good long look at Portraits of Eve. The book shows who we are as women who are comfortable and happy with how we are. PoE also shows there is *no* standard of beauty - beauty comes in packages that are a far cry from a beauty magazine editor's ideal. We are short, tall, light, dark, tattooed, and virgin skinned, old souls in young wrapping and young souls who have been seasoned by life's ups and downs through the years. We're all beautiful but all *very* different.

Herb did a fantastic job not only as a very talented artist with a keen eye but I believe he's done a fine, fine service for women across the board.

I believe he made us comfortable, welcome and like an old friend and there's a lot to be said for this.

Thank you, Nocturnia, for all that I've learned from you.

I can't wait to get my clothes off, reading these posts by the women you've photographed has me excited Herb. You'll be hearing from me, for sure.

Perhaps you'd better cool down a bit before your session, Eugenia. ;)

LOL Herb. There's an inner exhibitionist in me just dying to get out. LOL, no I swear I won't go 'Hustler' on you. But I'm proud of my body even at this age and in this condition and I'm excited about seeing for myself what it exudes.

OOOH EUGENIA!! Freaky deaky . LOL J/K!!

Monique, you sound like someone that I would love to photograph.

Several of the women in my book have used the words "liberating," "empowering," and "healing" to describe their experience of being photographed nude. A session just might be therapeutic for Sabrina.

Hi all,

I'm the first "Photo" in the montage here. I'm one of the ladies recruited from ModelMayhem, sort of. I was told by another model friend of mine about Herb's project.

Herb was my first "nude" - and to this day I'm happy to tell people about it. Granted most of my modeling is done with a metric ton of makeup and enough hairspray for Cousin It - this was one of the few shoots I've done where it was just me.

I'm very much into helping ladies reveal their inner beauty, and yes, everyone is beautiful somehow (provided they have it inside of them). That being said, the society standard regarding beauty is a bit more inside-the-box. The average commercial model is 5'10, between a size 0 and 4, white or black - doesn't matter as long as her features are specific - and has long lanky neck, arms, legs and can pose.

I'm sorry, but I know about 3 of these women in real life. And the best part is, what you may call beautiful on a glossy page looks very unremarkable without the lighting, the makeup, the retouching, and the artists eye.

Super Skinny to Obese - we, as humans, are somewhere in that scale. Someone who is heavier than me at 5'4 may not be unhealthy. As someone who is 35 lbs lighter than me may also not be unhealthy.

I run a modeling group for real women - and yes, we doll'm up, dress'm up and shoot photos of them. Reality and Fantasy are not the same, lol. I try to tell each of my models to stop comparing themselves to the world around them. To the models they see in magazines. To supermodels. They are 3% of the population - and there's a reason they stand out. The rest of the 97% are not ugly, misshapen or wrong - we just arent the 3% - and there's nothing wrong with that.

:) That's why I'm proud to be part of this book.

Wow! Thanks so much for chiming in on this discussion. You are beautiful!

Anytime, anytime. I recently polled models and photographers, asking them a question about thin or not models. Was intersting. Completely exploded. 4 pages of answers within 3 hours. Touched some nerves, set some fires, and caused a few folks to scratch their heads.

I like doing stuff like that.

Thank you for the insight and I must say I totally agree with what you said. With way you look, it is what it is, take it and work with it. Make the best of what you got.

Thank you for sharing. Our photo session was truly an artistic and spiritual collaboration and I feel blessed to have worked with you. The fact that you drove up to New Jersey from the Baltimore area is evidence of your enrollment and shows that you truly connected with the spirit of the project. I'm proud to count you among the amazing women who participated in the project.

Now, to just get the hard copy book out there so that all of the members of the Portraits of Eve sisterhood can be fully appreciated.

Cult's a fantastic mom, partner in crime and model. She's super-dynamic in her daily life to say the least. Thoughtful, kind, blunt yet objective and it shows in her photo. Glad to call her friend and glad to have turned her on to Herb's project =).

And this would be the "model friend" that told me about Herb's project.

Thanks lady!

I find all kinds of looks beautiful. i can go from finding a conventional Barbie Type beautiful to a non conventional bohemian type.

But honestly the features that i find most appealing on a Black female face are a mixture of African and European (mainly the nose) in a sort. full lips, small button nose, almond eyes, thick unruly/kinky/curly hair, and brownish skin.

Portraits of Eve is being self-published and currently exists only as an e-book. The money for the printing of the hard copy version is being raised through advance sales at a special pre-publication price (unless, of course, a backer appears). Psychologist, author, and former Essence magazine advice columnist, Dr. Gwendolyn Goldsby Grant has written a foreword for the hard copy version.

Please visit the book's website: http://www.portraits-of-eve.com

Herb, I'm looking forward to getting the book and interpreting it for myself. I see the beautiful part, you don't have to prove anything it's already there.

As I read these posts, I'm reminded of why I have more female than male friends. What women talk about is most often, to me, more interesting than sports. ;) I guess I might be a rather atypical male. The fact that I shared the womb with my twin sister might have something to do with it.

As the creator of Portraits of Eve: Women of Color Share Their Body/Soul Conversations, allow me to state for the record that I have never, at any time, been on any kind of mission to "prove" to anyone that women of color are beautiful. Why bother? The artistic objective of my intimate photography of women (of many hues/races/ethnicities) is to share the beauty that I perceive in their bodies. Viewers are left to decide for themselves.

Since my earliest days as an art student, I've been fascinated by lines, angles, forms, and textures. The female body offers a seemingly infinite variety of these artistic elements in intriguing combinations. I've studied numerous books of photographs of nude women and have seen plenty of glamour images created by talented photographers, but, at the same time, noticed a certain absence of multi-dimensional, thought provoking images of women of color. Largely using Joyce Tenneson's Wise Women as my model, I decided to combine the women's own words with my visual interpretations. I set out to include the greatest possible range of ages, ethnicities, and body types among women of color that I could gather and create images that celebrated rather than objectified.

The project has evolved and largely taken on a life of its own and has served as a conduit for connections with some amazing women. As for the discussion of beauty, I invite you to listen to what some of the women in the book have to say about themselves and their Portraits of Eve experiences. Here are links to the Blog Talk Radio interviews that we've done so far:

Tuesday, 6/15 -- Blog Talk Radio -- 60 minutes

Venus Revolution hosted by Jace Harnage, one of the women in the book (in Atlanta)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-american-hottentot/2010/06/16/the-venus-revolution-radio-show-hosted-by-the-amer

Monday, June 28 -- Blog Talk Radio -- 60 minutes

Inspirasoul with Rev. Jennifer Rogers

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/inspirasoul/2010/06/28/portraits-of-eve-women-of-color-share-their-bodyso

Friday, July 2 -- Blog Talk Radio -- 30 minutes

Wanda's Picks with Wanda Sabir

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/wandas-picks/2010/07/02/wandas-picks-radio

Saturday, July 10 -- Blog Talk Radio -- 30 minutes

The Cocoa Express with Aurelia Lyles

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-cocoa-express/2010/07/11/body-imageone-mans-view--herb-way-edited

Thursday, October 7 -- Blog Talk Radio -- 2 hours

Online With Andrea with Andrea Garrison

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onlinewithandrea/2010/10/07/herb-way-on-portraits-of-eve

Not everyone is beautiful. Most people are average because that's what average means. Whatever you have you have to play to that. Having a great body can make up for the not so cute face. Having a great face can make up for the not so great body (not obese, but just ok body) Personality goes a long way as well. But the overall point is that being a beautiful person on the outside is not all there is to life. Go to the mall and look around. There are VERY few beautiful people, but there are happy people leading fulfilling lives. Try to live a life worth living. Make the best with what you have and I think the rest will fall into place. As I have grown older this makes much more sense that worrying about how pretty I am (although I think that I am pretty). I think that I am interesting and different esp regarding others' expectations. That has attracted people to me. I don't want to be vanilla...that's boring. When I walk into a room I want to be noticed because I bring something different to the table. As a younger person you just want to fit in, find a crowd and blend. I LOVE standing out!!!

You're right Melanie most of us are average but the WTH is wrong with that? I'm average beautiful. I'm beautiful to me and I'm beautiful to my fiancee, I'm beautiful to my family and my friends and that's what matters. I'm not concerned if all the world thinks I'm beautiful or cute or sexy. I'm tired of this narcisstic need to have all the world think you're hot, I don't get that. Yes, you're right, work with what you got b/c that's about it. If you feel like you're overweight and want to take some off, do it stop moaning about doing it and just do it. And if you just want to moan for moaning's sake, shut b/c people are tired of hearing it. This is our life, take control of it.

Word. You only need one person to think the world of you. Everyone else can go sit down, lol.

LOL. ^5

You know I had a guy friend and actually we're still friends, white guy. We dated for 2 seconds but figured we'd do much better as friends. But he was the 'whoa is me' guy. I used to call him Hollywood b/c he had so much drama. But he was always complaining about not finding anyone to like him. And he was good-looking, blonde hair, blue eyes, nice body, educated, sweet as sugar and the best gift giver ever and I just didn't understand it. Out of all the people in the world looking, wanting to loved, looking to find a relationship that he was supposed to be the only one with one. It didn't make sense and I used to tell him that. After awhile he worked on himself and his self-confidence and found love and got married. I knew it would happen.

"You only need one person to think the world of you. Everyone else can go sit down"

LOVE IT!

If we can't see our own beauty, then no one else will. That's what I try to do on my blog and that's to highlight the beautiful women of the Diaspora no one else is talking about. Everyone is so centered on celebrity beauty while negating real beauty.

Let me diviate from our beauty and concentrate on the lack of self-worth which often leads women down a path of self-destruction. Why is no one talking about this? ->>http://bit.ly/gMAGao I'm wondering why is this horrible news being ignored?

What makes a woman beautiful, particualrly a woman of color?

Tough question, but I agree with Herb's definition, in that beauty is not just physical beauty but an air or an energy that a woman walks with that actually draws a person's/man's attention. I think we all can agree that a physically beautiful person becomes quite ugly if their character and personality is ugly. So beauty has to be more than how (physically) fine one may be.

To address Sabrina's comment: When I was around 12 or 13 I asked my mother if she thought I was pretty. Her response was do YOU think you are pretty? At first I was taken aback b/c I felt that she was my Mom and she was supossed to think I was pretty and blast it to the world and for a few years I couldn't undersand why she answered me that way. And then I got it. What my mom was trying to teach me was that it really did not matter if she thought I was pretty, if I didn't believe it first. A tough lession to learn at 12 but, it did get me thinking about beauty and my particualr type of beauty.

As I've said here before, I am a dark-skinned BW with typical West African features (round face, high forehead, a short ringed neck, high cheek bones, teddy bear nose, small mouth, full lips and small almond shaped eyes)I also shape like a typical west African woman (although I'm tall (5'8")I have full hips, a round pear shaped bottom, full thighs and a small waist, I am not a thin, but quite curvy and I'm 37 years old (fast approaching the "woman of a ceratin age" bracket).

I am not the classical standard of "beauty" that Euro-America propogates. And it took me a long time to be okay with that...beacuse I finally BELIEVED I was beautiful. It took me a long time to actually believe it but it eventually sunk in that I too am beautiful and that I did not have to look like Grace Kelly or Nicole Kidman or Scarlett Johansen to be considered beautiful. And once I embraced MY beauty so did everyone else. Men of all races have called be beautiful or gorgeous, women too. A woman complimenting your beauty doesn't make her automatically a lesbian trying to get at you, why that's absurd. I compliment woman all the time and I LOVE MEN!!! So take the compliemnt, smile and say thank you.

I guess what I'm saying is if YOU, Sabrina, think that you are old, fat and ugly then that is the energy you will convey to others and others WILL treat you as old, fat and ugly.

In terms of obesity, I agree with the discussion that was had over at Khadija's blog, the concept of "fat acceptance" is killing BW. We need to address it and stop making excuses about it. It is a painful subject, I understand that and I empathsize. However, too many BW are far too heavy and overweight and we HAVE to address that issue because it is KILLING us...literally. There is no calvary coming to save BW, that's the work we have to do for ourselves and it starts with facing our demons, whatever they may be, head on.

Great post, Christelyn.

I grabbed this comment from the BB&W fan page because it brings up a really important point:

Sabrina Williams Messenger :
"I've seen several of these kinds of "Im beautiful ,too" sort of photo montages...and the I'm big and curvy, love me sort of stuff...but I know from personal experience that stuff is not any more real than the Barbie doll/Beyonce phenon. At least it doesn't feel real from where I'm sitting nearly 50, black, FAT with weight that won't come off no matter how much dieting and exercising I'm doing...men (of all races) still look right through me as they tend to do to most women of a "certain" age. Sure there are women who say oh you look beautiful, but I'm not a lesbian, I don't want women to think I'm pretty. I want MEN to like me and ask me out but that's not happening. I don't know... maybe it's better for some of us to face reality and admit some of us ARE ugly or have lost their looks as we've grown older...and then go on from there and quit buying into this vanity stuff that we have to be beautiful to be someobody"

Okay Sabrina, I'd like to address this point for point. Obesity, meaning the state of being extremely overweight, is generally unattractive. But so is being shaped like a stick of gum. I'm big on health and weight management, and I talk a lot about it here and we have a lot of debates, but the final verdict is that Black women need to stop confusing curvy with fat. Khadija from www.sojournerspassort.com addresses this very issue and she is QUITE frank.

As for you and your own struggle with your weight: have you seen a doctor about this? Have they done a work-up on you? Because, I KNOW what I'm about to say is a little harsh: You ever see that show "Survivor?" At the beginning of the event, there have been some biggins (even middle aged) and by the finale, many of those people have lost the equivalent to half a person.

Also you might notice that most of the women in this slideshow (I did have a few of which to choose from) are NOT (so sorry I left this out the first time) are outright fat, except for one, who I believe is a little up in age. The point of this post was not to say that "fat is beautiful;" rather, that non-European looking women are beautiful too. Barbie doesn't have to been the standard. In fact with most men who are involved with women on this site and in IRR, Barbie is as regular and bologna.

Christelyn, I'm afraid that I totally disagree with you that "most of the women in this slideshow are outright fat." I'd be very interested in knowing if other viewers of the slideshow agree with your assessment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your comment would suggest that you subscribe to the European/American fashion indusrty size standard that is perpetrated by mostly white men who are mostly gay.

The women in my book range in size from 96 pounds to 305. Some are skinny and some are fat. Where does fat begin? Size 10?

Herb, the way I've been hearing it around it's size 8 and I'm size 14 but I'm 5'8" and no I don't consider myself fat. LOL. And you're about to start an argument.

UH OH! That was a typo! I meant to say, ARE NOT outright fat. Going to edit now...

Christelyn, OK with your typo it was about to be the Thunderdome up in here LOL.

Glad you corrected your typo, Christelyn. I was beginning to wonder. LOL

Some of the women in my book (not just the thin ones) were recruited through a website called Model Mayhem where I have a portfolio of my art nudes posted (http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/661/viewall). I've seen forum discussions there that talk about anything larger than size 8 as plus size. Give me a break! Again, it's that dangerous European/American fashion standard. Don't get me wrong. I'm not about glorifying obesity and the health risks and self esteem issues that go along with it.

You know what works for me. Eating healthy food and leave the car or bike when I'm going places.

I walk a lot, and it has helped me keep my weight and it will help me lose the weight I've gained during the pregnancy.

Probably not the fastest way to lose weight but it simple and it works.

The post you re-posted seems a little like a narcisstic pity party b/c narcisstic doesn't always mean you're obesessed with your greatness, it can mean you're just obesessed with yourself. Christelyn, you're right she needs to get in to see a doctor, that's why they are there. Also this book isn't about celebrating being fat, why is that only pic she seemed to notice? It's about celebrating the beauty in the diversity of women, there are small women, tall, medium, some plump women and a pregnant woman on here. It's about comfort in the non-white skin you're in. With an attitude like Sabrina's I'm not surprised men don't talk to her, that kind of negativity would turn anyone off man or woman. Why as women do we think that our negative attitude doesn't show in our demeanor or that men should be falling at our feet? Not only does it seem that Sabrina needs to see a doctor about her issues with her weight but she needs to see a therapist about her attitude, it's not conducive to a healthy relationship. You know I've seen some unattractive women, thought myself to be unattractive a time or two but it's my attitude that gets the job done. I've seen some plain women in my day with gorgeous men but you know what it was their attitude that did it and yea after a while I was enchanted by the woman and could see how he could be. What is thing with some women who need every man in their vicinity to love her and ohh and ahh at her beauty, you don't need every man you just need one. Being 50 has nothing to do with it, it's like saying that b/c you're older woman you're ugly what kind of tripe is that, I call shenanigans on that mess! I'm 38 years old, no I don't like I did when I was 20 and I don't my 20 year old body but after my divorce when I started dating I had a new set of confidence after some years of it being pummmeled by ex. Yea I was scared, thinking what dude is gonna want me I'm 37 years old. But the fact that my attitude had changed made it possible for a good, nice, sweet, good-looking, intelligent man 3 years younger than me to come into my life. It was me, I was the determining factor cause she could lose all the weight in the world if she keeps that attitude she'll still be lonely and not attractive to men.

Alright, I'm going to have to jump in here. I think one thing you youngsters have not taken into consideration is that she is probably in transition. Peri-menopause can be really DIFFICULT; I'm 49, in the midst of it, and I have never felt as unappealing as I do now (both physically and emotionally). I have just decided to forget about dating at this point, and therefore do things like exercise, eating healthiER (let's not lie..), getting proper SLEEP, taking extra time to doll myself, and practicing my singing BECAUSE THEY MAKE ME FEEL BETTER, and not to make myself attractive to a man.

But Sherry she's not saying that, she's saying this. My mom is 65 and was menopausal at some point, I don't know when but she never went through this phase. She's still rocking it at 65 and men still coming onto her but no she's cool with being a widow and doing what she does. If she said that she'd stop dating to 'get herself together' that would be one thing but she's not. She's saying she's ugly old and fat and if you're a mature woman and I think I am, I'm no youngster and got some weight on you just throw in the towel b/c you're ugly. Now I'm not overweight but I was before I left my husband and after I left him I dropped them stress pounds. If she is peri-menopausal she still needs to see a doctor, if that's what is bothering here, she needs someone to explain that to her and get any treatment she needs. But spreading this to other women is not helpful or uplifting. I know it can't always be sunshine and roses, this is real life but as much as life and others will rain on your parade, I'm trying not to forecast showers on my own parade.

Does she read this site, or are you going to respond to her on the fan page? These responses won't help her if she can't see them!

I told her I was going to post it here.

The BB&W calender is born.

You all may think I'm a dirty old white man, but I'll pre-order that calendar.

I've often thought about what makes a woman beautiful. It goes beyond appearance. It's a certain style and dignity that aren't shouted or even spoken. It's an impression you get from a girl by just noticing her. It isn't how tall she is, it's more how she carries herself. I've seen pretty women who don't know how to dress, or use the right makeup or who have no idea what to do with their hair. Their very pretty but no one notices.

I remember well when I was in grad school in the 70's, I fell in love with a black girl who was studying early childhood psychology. I thought she was beautiful. But people would ask me what I saw in her. I told them (1) she was beautiful, (2) she was very bright, (3) she had a personality that could charm the birds out of the trees. People kept saying "but she's black." I replied, "yeah, I noticed that." On the other hand, no one seemed to object when a BM dated a WW. To this day I'm bewildered by that.

Is the American standard of beauty European? Yes, but this is 2010 and, as Time Magazine said a few years ago, because of the influx of immigrants, "The Face of American is Changing." By 2050, we caucasians will be in the minority. Therefore the standard of beauty is changing. There are some older people for whom blonde hair and blue eyes will always be the standard of beauty. But every generation will redirect that standard. I like to think that some people----me included----were ahead of our time.

JJinPA

BBW calender? Not so much. The book and ebook cover a wide range of shapes, sizes and shades not to mention thoughts on who we are.

Myself - I snowboard, urban peddle, walk almost everywhere I go, practice yoga and in the summer when I can get to the beach/shore, I body surf. Fitness junkie? Hardly. I just like doing "stuff."

Oi! I know that there lady!

Nice. Still don't have the heart or guts to do it. Props to those who do. This is wonderful.

Q: What makes a woman, specifically a woman of color, beautiful?

A: that's hard because beauty is subjective and its often much deeper than our external outlook. Not to mention how it change in our society and rarely reflects the diversity of beauty within women of color. In my opinion, a beautiful black woman is just that regardless of whether she is from the West, East, North, Central of Africa or traces her heritage there.

I agree with Mr. Herb when he says: "What I find to be striking, beautiful may vary from woman to woman. In general, I’ll say tasteful grooming, poise, gracefulness, sensuality, intelligence, articulateness, congeniality, warmth, class, humility, gentleness, a certain light in her eyes and a certain way that she carries herself."

I've known people who are plain looking @ first sight, then become beautiful as you get to know them....then there are those who are blessed with classical beauty, yet have such ugliness of spirit or character.

Hodan says: I’ve known people who are plain looking @ first sight, then become beautiful as you get to know them….then there are those who are blessed with classical beauty, yet have such ugliness of spirit or character.

I say: I couldn't agree more. It's something about that person that draws you to them. I like Herb's description too.

Thank you, Christelyn, for your support. Eugenia, my camera and I are willing to travel. :)