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This question came right off the board of Black Women with Other Brothers. Dee Dee Russell asked Matthew how men should deal with people who openly slight the women of another race in which they’re dating. The answer might not be what you think.
This question came right off the board of Black Women with Other Brothers. Dee Dee Russell asked Matthew how men should deal with people who openly slight the women of another race in which they’re dating. The answer might not be what you think.
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If it is not something actually threatening and just someone showing their ass and displaying their ignorance, I personally don't find it that big an issue to let it go.
Not that he can't, but If your partner has to jump up and defend your honor at every single turn that may end up being all he's doing. I don't see it any different from any other rude person you may encounter in everyday life. Maybe one particular situation may prompt you or your partner to speak up and say something, but most can easily be shrugged off, I feel.
For example. Once my boyfriend and I went to a mid-priced restaurant in the city. My boyfriend was pretty casually dressed while most other people in the restaurant were a little more put together. I for example had on a nice summer dress. The waitress was decent and not particularly rude but we definitely noticed that our service took a little longer than other diners. Even some people that came in after us were eating their food before us.
It happened to be an Asian restaurant. One party that was a white man, and Asian woman and their son (I presume) got the five star treatment. They got their drinks poured for them (not water), special explanations of the menu, the whole nine. While our bottle of sake was just plopped in front of us and we had to pour it for ourselves.
She did poke fun at how much my food my boyfriend ordered. He has a thing for sushi and he ordered and appetizer, 4 rolls of sushi and an entre. I had to make him cancel the entre. And he was making her laugh during our dinner so by the time we were about to leave she was slightly more attentive, cleared away our plates very quickly and such. Then after a meal that totaled $100, mostly due to the sheer amount of sushi my boyfriend ordered, he left her a $20 tip. After that she was thanking us profusely and as we left was urging us to come back soon.
Mr. white guy and his Asian wife got no such send off.
I suppose if a relationship is new this may be more of an issue. But if you're in a relationship where you're secure that your partner would defend you if absolutely necessary, there's no problem letting the little stuff go. Unless it's like some 'we don't serve your type in here' kind of thing, a lot of these cases tend to be very passive aggressive and if you're making light of the situation they end up looking very silly.
Personally, I learned a huge lesson that day. My boyfriend especially lives by a motto of accentuating the positive and not stooping to the level of ignorant people. Not letting whatever negativity they are throwing your way stop you from having fun. We left that restaurant happier than ever. Laughing most so about how BF almost clogged their toilet after all that sushi.
He said that she probably looked at the way he was dressed (which was really just jeans and a shirt, but most people there were a little more well dressed) and the fact that we were a black woman/non-black man IR couple and thought that we would not tip her very well so she felt she could treat us however she wanted and such us on our way. He gave her such a big tip to prove a point that you never really know who you're dealing with.
We will never know for sure, but can only assume she she felt really dumb after giving us wishy washy treatment in the beginning while kissing the white/Asian couple's asses. We also assume she did not get as good a tip from them. Not only that but they were also even more casually dressed that my boyfriend. They looked like they were probably people who lived in the neighborhood who stopped by for dinner.
So that's my take in context. Honestly, that's why I focused on the other thing, because I don't consider this a major issue *Kanye shrug*
@Vintage Narcissa Here is an example that happened to my wife and her first Husband, who was German. They were on a train and there were three seats left next to a German woman. Each time my wife tried to take one of the seats, the woman stuck her foot out and said that the seat was reserved for a friend. When she did that to the last seat, my wife kicked her foot away, gave her hell and sat down. She felt that the act was racist. Her husband was mad at her for causing a scene. My wife thought that was an indication that the relationship was doomed.
Brice Cameron Vintage
Your wife was right that marriage was doomed. The German woman was trying to get over and you wife called the situation right. ex-hubs should have backed her play. Instead he went the "Don't take it personally and cause a scene route." That is not a smart position to take.
Racism is an insult and it is personal. That was the German's woman's intent. Telling someone not to take something like that personally invalidates the situation. First husband should have back her up. His loss and your gain.
Brice Cameron Vintage "I suppose if a relationship is new this may be more of an issue. ***But if you're in a relationship where you're secure that your partner would defend you if absolutely necessary,*** there's no problem letting the little stuff go." --- I get that you're saying she was already married. But if this isn't something that she noticed until after they were married then it's still applicable, to suddenly find herself in a situation where she is not secure would definitely be a problem. One would assume that such a trust would already be established before the marriage, but clearly its ultimate demise was a benefit in other ways. It is very sticky because everyone is speaking from a different context. I feel all of the points are valid. I am simply offering my take as per my experiences. I'm not trying to discredit anyone else's experiences and I would appreciate the same consideration.
@VintageNarcissa I am not trying to discredit your experiences. I like reading what you have to say and I appreciate your viewpoint. I am just adding my two cents.
Brice Cameron Vintage Most Germans know that train seats can be reserved (for a small fee) and are clearly labelled as such. For non-reserved seats, it's a first-come, first-served thing. I would have insisted on sitting there til the so-called friends showed up.
I completely understand that this situation is going to push some 'back of the bus' buttons for African-Americans. So, in my opinion, here is where the ex should've stepped in to smooth things over. You have to kick anyone or give anyone hell.
I believe that was an indicator of the flaws in that relationship (although hindsight is always 20/20), coz your wife's ex should've been the one saying, 'Here honey, I found seats for us' or 'here are the seats I reserved for us.'
Brice Cameron I meant to write: You DON'T have to kick anyone...
Some people are taking the situation to be a couple harassed by a gang of youths late at night in a tough part of town. I was thinking more along the lines of a snooty comment in an upscale restaurant. The two situations are completely different and require different responses.
Kia I can agree with what Matthew said. Even in my situation, it was clear that my boyfriend did his best to keep his cool. As I said, I was the one who mentioned the Marine thing. But what I didn't add into my story was that as we were leaving the Ferry, my boyfriend told me that if they were to come back and provoke us that I was to get as far from the area as possible. The ironic thing about it was that a few days later 'More Black Women are Packing - Interracial Couple attacked by Wolf Pack,' was posted, and the report indicated that the men did not even bother the black woman, just her white boyfriend.
In most situations though my boyfriend continues to keep his military grade pocket knife on his person, as well as his military ID. And he is very adept in the law, so he knows what he can and cannot do in his own defense and not be liable.
As I said, the fools cowered behind the divider of the Ferry exit, but who knows if they would have tried to attack us later on. But we did not see them after that. But it is a reality that IR couples have to face that you never know when the negativity behind directed at you will be a lot more than passerby strangers or an ignorant waitress.
The other day my boyfriend and I were on a train and we got the death glare from three different black men as well as a head-shake from one. The man was not was not aware that though I my back was turned to him I could see him starting intently at us and then shake his head before he turned to leave the train. Stuff like that it easy to laugh at. Like I said, my boyfriend has his 'haters gonna hate' dance that he will do in public during opportune moments. But you will never know how much a threat to your physical safety will shake you until it happens. It's so important to be aware and smart in those situations.
Kia I think the focus of this article is not only DBR threats but racist comments and behaviors from whites towards you. The question is what do you expect from him in situations like that?
He looks like Jason Priestly.
" You want to be with the type of guy that is so calm and confident that he doesn't give any power to people who don't matter"
And with that, I have jumped onto the Hussey Bandwagon.
Veron That statement from Matthew was the BEST. COMMENT. EVER.
Thumbs up! Just wanted to say I totally agree with Matthew's comments.
I really think it is hard to know the appropriate response without knowing the exact situation. There are times when it is better to ignore it, and there are times when you have to say or do something. It seems that this is one of the problems the NBAB crowd have with dating a white man. They don't think that white men will understand their experiences when it comes to racism. Matthew is right that it is a gift for the woman to not expect the man to fighting mad at every slight. But I think it is also important for a man who is with a black woman to understand where she is coming from with regards to racism. It isn't all in her head and some people are not just rude, they are racist. Most of the time, defending your girl will not involve fisticuffs. It will just involve calling a situation what it is and you will get some points with your significant other without risking injury.
Also, as long as things stay nonviolent, I think it is better if the person of the same race as the person being rude to put that person in their place. Racist people tend to disregard anything coming from people of other races. It is more effective if they get it from "their own".
Brice Cameron Both of these comments are dead on Brice. Racism is important and no the slights are not all in our heads. So it is good that a non-black man understands this.
However. We as black women would be suffering slights whether our non-black man were in the picture or not. We have been dealing with them long before our rainbeaus have come into the picture. Now if you as a woman handled these things in a confrontational manner then I guess you would want your guy to respond in kind. Me I was taught to not get mad but get even.
It would be more important for me for my rainbeau to have an understanding ear and shoulder. I would much rather work to get even.
Brenda55 Brice Cameron There is a legacy (probably derived from the Westerns of the 40's, 50's, 60's & 70's) of two men fighting it out with fists, knives or guns - just one-on-one - the ideal 'fair fight'.
No longer !!!
Knock a foul-mouthed DBR (any race or ethnic) down and he likely:
* Slashes with a hidden knife;
* Pulls a 9mm from his waistband and empties the magazine;
* Screams for his 'homies' or 'roadies' to finish you off;
* Whines about his nasty lawyer and threatens to sue;
* Sneers that you'll be found, and he'll come back for your family while you're out;
* Threatens to take gasoline and burn down your house;
Or some other variant of these and similar themes.
The best course of action would then appear to be 'situational deafness' - try to get cell-phone audio/pictures/videos - if it grows to direct confrontation, get your loved ones close behind you and your back to a wall (to avoid cold-cock blows), and try to wait it out - shove chairs and tables into the advancing thug(s) - make a lot of noise, yell a lot and get your people to scream things like 'FIRE' or 'GUN'.
Only do the all-out-offense-against-multiple-odds if there is no other choice.
I think that the response should always be given in a way that really matters. Service people have supervisors. There are chains of commands and policies in the work place. There is a criminal justice system in place. The smart person uses those things.
Having your guy put up his dukes is not worth it. We live in the 21 century not the 18 th and engaging in a street fight or war of words is just plain stupid these days and is not the mark of manhood. I would not make that a mark of manhood. I want my guy to get me out of a dicey situation as efficiently as possible. I am not going to box him into a corner by making this about a show of manhood and a meaningless defense of honor. I want any man I am with to have enough sense to size up a situation and get the best out come out of it.
Finally IMO the best thing a woman can do when a man is getting ready to handle his business is STFU and let him handle it.
I remember a cartoon, done in a sketchy style, in a 'city paper,' many years ago - it was about 8 panels long .
In the 1st panel, a street-fighter shoves a man, with his woman, and then challenges him to fight - the 2nd panel shows the shoved man turning and raising his fists.
The 3rd through the 7th panel depicts the woman, berating, insulting and humiliating her man, and reducing him to a crawling 'thing,' with a leash around his neck,
In the 8th panel, the street fighter is left with his mouth open, turning to walk away, open hands in the shrug position, and the 'thought balloon' above him, stating, "I don't believe this ..."
It's been our experience that we get the 'hard stare' from older black men (remembering the 'survival rules' they were taught as children) and younger white women (another good man, 'gone bad').
We stay out of the hood - no reason for either of us to go there - and otherwise remain aware of our surroundings, including the potential groups of young black males, standing around, with 'nottin' ta do.'
SirLoinDeBeef This is so true in my experience too. My boyfriend and I were on our second date, walking to his car in a parking garage in a large southeastern US city. The parking attendants were 3 older Black men in their late 50s-60s, and they looked at me so hard (not him, ME lol). Two of them just turned away in disgust, and one dealt with my boyfriend in disgusted silence as he paid. My boyfriend turned around and whispered to me "so I guess they aren't happy to see one of the good ones with Honky Tonk are they?" We laughed and went to town with the jokes, nearly in tears by the time we got to the car.
On our first date, which I remember only through the hazy pink clouds I floated on the whole night, there was a group of attractive White women at the bar. Since I was late coming to the place and he hung out at the bar waiting for me, I'm sure they had been planning to make a move (he is a killer, I don't blame them!), trying to see if he was waiting for someone to show. When I showed up and he gave me a huge hug, you could have bought the lot of them for a dime. Our waitress was also an attractive White woman, who looked mostly at him the whole time but was a sweet as pie. Again, couldn't blame her for that!
Whew, he is so fine I could barely pay attention to his response! Gorgeous lady sitting next to him too :). But he is absolutely right you can't give ignorant people power. Besides its not like whatever you say is going to change their mind. You want to be confident and feel secure with you're man and that doesn't mean you have to be fighting the world to do it.
Ahh if you are in a dark alley I will pull out my cutlass aka machete This http://budk.com/product/Knives/Machetes/Gavilan-CanBush-Machete-21/pc/2902/c/0/sc/2950/174375.uts
or this http://budk.com/product/Machetes/Gavilan-CanBush-Machete-21/pc/0/c/0/sc/2950/174375.uts
blackpanthershay Girl, you are too funny! But seriously, yes.
@Karla lol
blackpanthershay My personal preference would be a cane-sword and a black-powder revolver (no shell casings) - slice, dice and plug 'em!
As it said on the Tombstone: "Here lies the body of Lester More - took four slugs from a .44 - just four - no Les, no More."
@SirLoinDeBeef @blackpanthershay lol lol@Lester More no Les no more lol Cane swords are nice but alas I have no experience with them.
blackpanthershay
I stay out of dark alleys and the parts of towns where violence is acceptable, normal and supported by the surrounding community. I guess that makes me a pussy.
I haven't, as a result of that sissy way of thinking, been in a lot of street fights.
However, I have been on some streets where fighting was taking place. Real fighting, with ethnic motivation. All the cool kids had one of these: http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as17/m4_m203_2.jpg
which I find to be ever so more appealing than machetes and sword canes. Note the grenade launcher; fire a few fragmentation grenades down the alley before you enter and avoid direct confrontation events. It's called 'softening up the location'.
Or, you could just avoid those kinds of places in the first place. That's my plan.
Law Wanxi blackpanthershay Pussy? No, friend, it makes you SMART! - even more so, as you are a relatively young man, military-trained and weapons-instructed ... including knowing where, as a civilian, you can and cannot carry weapons ... or should.
I have lost or turned down jobs before, when, in order to spare a sweet-young-thing, I, as the only man available, was ordered to do speech therapy deep in the hood ... so they blacklisted me ... I'm alive, un-injured, not shot/stabbed/beaten.
For instance, I have taken your advice about parking garages - drive in, scan in 'orange,' and leave ... walk in the middle, even if I have to dodge cars - go back to get my car, still in 'orange,' don't loose concentration - scan for human predators - open doors, get in, close & lock, start and drive away.
You and I both avoid 'those' kinds of places, as there is nothing there that I or the ones I love & care about have need to investigate/acquire.
My husband and I haven't encountered anything like this..maybe the occasional lingering stare but that's because we're hot!
I do agree that a couple can't address every comment and be in a confrontational mode every minute; "pick your battles" and whatnot. Sometimes, though, it is prudent to say something in response. The key is what you say and how you say it. My hubs and I have been together so long, we have a connection and it works for us. If someone says, "Traitor" to me, we just laugh and keep it moving. If someone says, "N**ger Lover" to him (yes, it has happened), he turns to them with a half smile and says, "Your so envious, you're green. Get over yourself." The key is, if you are going to say or do something, it can't be the reaction they expect. Works every time.
Karla Keith and I have never in all of the years that we have been together gotten verbal and physical confrontations. Or at least I do not remember them. We get the stare and the twittering behind the hand bit and of course the example of poor service that I just recounted.
I think some of that stuff is age and situation related. Little old biddies at the orchestra and theater are not going to call you out and service people for the most part are hungry for tips so they keep their opinions to themselves.
Keith and I joke about why that we get little foolishness on the street. He says it is because of his size and he may be right since he is a big guy but I say It is because people think we are a couple of geegers seeking companionship in our declining years. Either way we do not run into much nonsense do I guess we are lucky.
Brenda55 Yeah, the more distasteful stuff happened when we were first married. We were traveling frequently due to our jobs so some locations weren't that "race" friendly. Since we've settled here, not so much. We don't even get looks anymore.
OK some of you are not going to like my reaction but I agree with Matt.
That is pretty much how I was raised to deal with conflict both racial and social. Keep it moving and pick your battles.
There is more than one way to react to a insulting and raciest situation and you BOTH should allow yourselves all the options available to you.
Remember this guy?
This stuff is something you and your rainbeau should talk about and have game planned early on in your relationship. It is going to come up.
Last time Keith and I had an issue at a restaurant for example we left then wrote a letter of complaint to the management then left a crappy review of the restaurant and its poor service online. Sure we could have made a grand stand and called the person out right then and there. What good would it have done arguing with an ass. What we did was take our business elsewhere.
Interesting.
Spot on!
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