Poll: Which are You, “Black Woman” First, or “Woman” First, “Black” Second?

Poll: Which are You, “Black Woman” First, or “Woman” First, “Black” Second?

How you see yourself affects just about every aspect of your life, so it’s worth thinking about.

Author : Christelyn Karazin

Author's Website | Articles from

We’ve been talking a lot about black women’s position in society, and ways to improve our station. But riddle me this–are you a “black woman,” or a woman who happens to be, well…very dark brown? Surely both labels have implications. If you are a “black woman” first, then that implies that you identify, support, fight for, protest, protect, rage for, celebrate, and rally for all things “black.” If you’re a woman who happens to be black, then you might pick and choose what causes you take up, but those cause may not necessarily be black-community related. As a woman who is black, you’re freer to just “be.” You like what you like, believe what you believe, date and marry whom you want, and for purposes of this conversation, don’t tow the party line. But because of your color–your obvious distinction–your loyalties will be constantly questioned by those who claim you as their own. People will ask if you’re a real sister, or a “cornball” sister.

I know that there’s some women out there that don’t feel that they are free to be just “women,” because “black” follows you everywhere you go. “Black” and “Woman” are impossible to be mutually exclusive, they are inexorably intertwined.

So which are you?

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onmywayup 1737 pts

I cannot imagine what it's like to be a woman who happens to be black. I've been aware of both at various points in my life, sometimes even at the same time (i.e. a "black woman," someone who has a separate identity from either a non-black woman or a black man). 

 

I am definitely aware of different parts of my identities depending on the situation.  In the quiet moments, however, I'm really just me.

LaCocoaAngel 34 pts

I think a better poll would be: which takes the highest priority: being a woman, being black, or being a black woman. My answer: being a black woman. That title best captures two of my most cherished identities.

home2nowhere 6 pts

I disagree, I am well aware that I am a Black Woman that doesn't mean I'm running around with the black panthers and taking up these "black causes". I do see myself as a woman before I think about being black because regardless of my skin color my breasts will still be sticking out of my chest as a sign of my sex. What right do you have to tell me or anyone else that if you decide you are a black woman rather than the latter then you are not free to be yourself. We all ascertain our own identities if I want to be a black woman that rallies for black causes then that is who I am. If I want to be woman first then black then that is also who I am. I never forget that I am black ever, however, more than that I am constantly reminded I am a woman.

 

On another note what is this regular woman you are talking about? Does Hispanic, or Asian, or White not follow other women? Are they freer because they are not black and we are the only ones pretending? Do their people not have causes or have their loyalty questioned? Who is this perfect woman that you are hoping to be like? Why can the two not go hand in hand, black and woman? Can I not be in an interracial relationship and still love my people? Can my people not still love me? It seems you might have an issue with being black. I happen to love it and being a woman it's who I am, who I was born. Sure life can be difficult but it's difficult for anyone alive if you fight against who you are then you just make it harder on yourself.

 

To answer you poll question I am both black and woman, they harmonize and keep me from nothing. I fight for my people and love Asian men. I also enjoy other causes politics, environment, and racial equality for all humans. If that means I am some kind of black woman rebel riser then so be it.

nyaw 189 pts

The fact that most women on here might end up having biracial daughters...I wonder if the skin color is the real issue and all that comes with it? There will be times where coming together with women similar to yourself is important, example dark skin black women, brown skin women and light skin women, though we are all "black" we all have different issues and treated differently in the Black community. I think we just group with who we have things in common with. Example I want to know how to do my hair I look at women on youtube that look like me in complexion and see what type of hair they have and decide if that is what I want. It is not that plain cut anymore, just like the "race" check box is not that clear cut anymore. There will be biracial kids being raised here and they are neither black or white!

AJ2011 2310 pts

Both. One doesn't come before the other in any circumstance, at least that I can think of right now. There isn't a category listed for this perceptive but I'putting it on the table anyway.

Bellatrix79 424 pts

Sometimes I "forget" that I'm black.  I know that I am black, but when I interact with people it's not at the forefront of my mind.  So when someone says I'm "the black girl", I'm a bit taken aback.  It seems as though they just see me as a black woman as opposed to a woman that just happens to be black.  Maybe it's just me.

KingsDaughter 4634 pts

 Bellatrix79 No, but remember most of our lives other people are looking at us, not the opposite.

zipporah 1714 pts

it may be 'just you'. Sometimes when people describe each other-like blacks describing the other girl being light/dark; its the SAME as whites describing blond/brunette/redhead. its just a describtion.

dtfamu89 66 pts

I don't think I've ever posted a response.  I just  read comments, think, read some more...  I had to really contemplate  this one...Black or woman?  I can't really decide which one.  I depends on the circumstances.

 

 I can't honestly say that I've felt marginalized because of my gender, but I have felt considerably devalued because of my race.  I am constantly having to field questions or reprogram perceptions of what it means to be black.  I teach advanced placement courses in a predominantly white setting and my students are constantly "surprised" by me, mostly because of their narrowed views of who I should be.  The other day one asked me if I preferred to be called African American or Black.  I replied that I considered  African American to have specific cultural/identity designations.  I am black, but I am from the Caribbean.

 

In fact, I see myself as a Caribbean person first, then black and then female.  I have no idea why this is, but I tend to relate well to other West Indian people, no matter the gender or race.  For me, culture trumps everything.

 

I can't really say I became aware of the color of my skin until I moved to the United States.  I assigned no positive or negative connotations to it...it just was, like the skin of most of the other people I saw growing up. When I moved here, I began to pick up on the negative images that seem to be attached to people with brown skin.  So, I had to actively (in the conscious part of my brain) fight against it, especially in my twenties.  That's when my internal lens started to change a bit, and I had to do some self-assessment to assure myself that I was the same smart, valuable human being I had always been.  I think the racialized thinking here can force you to do that. 

 

 

I realize, however, that the racialized thinking  changes when I go home to the Virgin Islands.  There, color becomes irrelevant. Then the lines of demarcation become more about class than race.   I wonder if that is because I am in the majority there and therefore I become part of the "default" race? There, my race has no importance. I am one of many.  Here, I am very, very aware of being in the minority.  

 

Yes, context plays a big role for me.  I am always astounded by those Americans who can genuinely move beyond it in a meaningful way where race becomes incidental...I am not quite there and honestly wonder if I ever will be while I am within these borders.

 

I a work in progress when it comes to this issue.

onmywayup 1737 pts

 dtfamu89 I can definitely relate to what you are saying...thanks for the post!

simplytoyin 70 pts

 onthewaydown  dtfamu89 Wow i relate to what you said here, for me i didn't know i was black till i moved to the UK in my teens. When in nigeria i just was - a girl born up north whose family were spread across nigeria and the world i learnt. Wasn't till being in london i learnt real quick that there were auto markers negative = black. And like you inside i had a bounce back. I suppose the spirit of those before follows. It's not simple to answer but your response is closest to my feelings esp

 

>> When I moved here, I began to pick up on the negative images that seem to be attached to people with brown skin.  So, I had to actively (in the conscious part of my brain) fight against it, especially in my twenties.  That's when my internal lens started to change a bit, and I had to do some self-assessment to assure myself that I was the same smart, valuable human being I had always been.  I think the racialised thinking here can force you to do that. <<<

dtfamu89 66 pts

 simplytoyin  onthewaydown 

 

Thank you for your comment, and I wish you a happy holiday season and a prosperous New Year.  Americans tend to romanticize Europe, even African Americans.  James Baldwin, Paul Robeson, Josephine Baker:  American is filled with those who, in an attempt to shed their skin, fled to live in Europe.  Ironic, I know, but it is the case.  Europe is seen (by some) as the more progressive place when compared to America, specifically when discussing race.  So, I find it ironic that you, a lady across the pond, can relate to my earlier post.

 

I have not traveled as extensively as I would like, but I have seen some of the world.  (parts of Asia and a bit of Europe), and this stigma that has been somehow given to brown skin is way too prevalent.  Even in India, of all places (a whole country of brown people, some of whom have very  dark skin) people have issues with skin color.  I could not believe it.  Only in a very few places is it not part of the ethos of the culture.  I know that this is an effect of colonialism, but it has still been quite disconcerting when I have found it. It is amazing how melanin content can shape perception.

In fact,  In only a few countries have I felt comfortable in my skin, Turkey being one of those places.

 

On a brighter note (pun not intended), I do see perceptions slowly changing in mild, as well as  noteworthy, ways-- the reelection of America's president being one of them.  Keep in mind that people who classify themselves as black are only 13 percent of America's population, but Obama was still able to get elected twice in a country that is 72% white.  This says something to me, that there are enough people who are willing to overlook, and not actively assign, negative connotations to his skin,  enough people to make his re-election bid a success....sometimes that is all you need....enough.

simplytoyin 70 pts

dtfamu89onthewaydown

I know what you mean, it's the grass being greener thing i reckon. I visited the states my first time this year. I quite liked it. As far as europe goes, i've lived mainly in london, and spent some months in malta. Have visited at least five or six countries weeks at a time, so i picked up signals on how perceptions are, i feel body language is generally universal. Ooooh turkey! I want to go, will do a weekend break maybe easter time. Did you lke it? The food?!

 

I agree it is changing from what i can see watching you guys in the states. At least you acknowledge racism that exists, in london it's a mix match. More hidden if that makes sense?

I dunno what the remedy is, but i do know i need to remain that smart, curious (ok nosy lol), sometimes funny, other times fiery being. Because i can't loose my woman self for the sake of being black/african or vice versa. For me they are close to each other.

 

To answer the poll - i want a 3rd option Chris :)

 

Compliments of the season to you also and the family and loved ones xoxo

Interesting question.  I'm an older white guy who is not looking for anything.  I occasionally hit "black" blogs and websites just to see if I can get a better understanding or perspective.  Take my comment for what it's worth.

 

I really had to think about it, but I'm afraid I notice the color a millisecond before the gender.  I'm not trying to rationalize or assign blame, but I think it is more defensive than anything else.  The point is, the first thing I am concerned about is how you see yourself and I need to know what your reaction is going to be to me.  Are we coming from the same place?  Do we share the same culture?  Or am I going to unwittingly say something which might offend you?  In my head I relate to you as a woman, but there is still the underlying concern that you might be seeing me as a "white guy" rather than a guy that is white.

 

Just my thoughts.

zipporah 1714 pts

strange: you dont see yourself as a MAN first, before youre WHITE. i even find that odd.

 zipporah Thank you for sharing your reaction to the thoughts I expressed in my initial post.  I considered a number of ways to respond before deciding to simply ask you if you would mind further sharing what it was in my post that led you to believe that I don't see myself as a MAN first?  

 

I ask for this favor in an effort to eliminate the disconnect between what I thought I said, on the one hand, as opposed to what you heard on the other.

 

In other words, it seems that although I may not have "...unwittingly said something which might offend you...." I obviously unwittingly said something which was misinterpreted.

 

Yes, I can be a bit long-winded, but essentially I do see myself as a MAN first.

 

Thanks.

Brenda55 19328 pts moderator

 zipporah Yeah Z I'd be interested in an answer to that one also. He said nothing about how he saw himself but how a  black woman may see him. 

AleeL 440 pts

Well, I'm me first. That  before every other label I or the rest of the world could put on me.

Dandelion100 581 pts

@AleeL I agree. I just consider myself a person. I'm female, obviously, so there's no escaping that. I never identified with being "black." Growing up, I was always told I act "white." I guess I'm racially ambiguous because a lot of people thought I was Puerto Rican or Hispanic. I even had a former boyfriend say I "don't count as a black person." I honestly don't think people see me as "black." I get grouped into "other" because I don't fit stereotypes of what people perceive black women to be. Also, I'm "mixed" because my mother is from Belize and my dad is Jamaican. I consider myself a human who is American. The rest of my identity is simply what makes up the person who is me.

Suburban Soulgirl 250 pts

As I said earlier,I definitely see myself as black first... Even then, I never really saw my womanness as separate from my blackness...they are pretty intertwined with one another in a very intricate and complex way.

 

I grew up in a very pro-black household (my family were involved with militant groups back in the day) so race, culture and all that good stuff was pretty much in the forefront of my identity for most of my life...But with age, and life's experiences, that racial identity is becoming less and less important to me as an individual.  As I mentioned in an earlier post being black (or a woman) isn't the alpha and omega of my existence.  They are only elements of who I am.

 

I am not blind to how society (or anyone else) may identify em, I also do not concern myself with them...I don't allow what someone else thinks of me determine who I am as a person.

 

ELLE ROCHELLE 141 pts

Hey Chris...First Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!...LOL!

 

I see myself as.....1. The Daughter of King Jesus...he he 2. Woman 3. American 4. Who happens to be Black 5. Very Pretty...just thought I'd add that in there...lol!  Love this post and its a great question.

zipporah 1714 pts

Hanukkah was going on between Dec 8th-Dec 15th this year. Kwanzaa is just too new, even though many of us will be cooking Gumbo and Chitterlings on Jan 1. Even JESUS celebrated Hanukkah . In the Gospel of John 10:22-24 it was called the Feast of Dedication and when he was at the place, it was WINTER. You have to say the season because it sometimes is in the fall Kislev 25--Tevet 2?

zipporah 1714 pts

BTW i wonder how many WM been in a house oF people cooking chitterlings on Jan 1st: its an experience..LOL unless some of you  BW have any pointers about the aroma...ooohh LOL .. Anyway, im a Christian first, woman second, black third wife fourth, mom fifth, (been an aunt since i was 6 years old, my  daughter has been an aunt since before she was born)

DeepWater 2451 pts

Hmmm, good question, Christelyn.    

 

Woman, human, Black American. and just fabulous, dahling, bwaaaahahahahhaa.   I am all of those and one of the three may be more pronounced on any given day.    Love being a woman (thank God-dess), human, and Black with the frailties, fissures, and, life lessons all the way up to and through lifes' triumphs in being all (and more than) the three.    

MySmile 4172 pts

The two are intertwined (I explained a bit elow) but most times I think I'm a woman who is black (the woman part coming slightly before the black part, but not by much)....this is why I hate when men and people in general other me!!! Yes, I'm black..and you shouldn't have to ignore my blackness or pretend you don't see color to get along with me....the problem is not the color it's the negative meanings people attach to colors...but blackness does not define who I am on the inside... I don't have a narrow definition of blackness, so I feel like I can still identify as black and not be fully down with the black community (lots of love for the people I know in blackistan, including many I went to school with but I'm following a different path)...and have a wide variety of interests....basically, blackness to me is more about my physical appearance, shared experiences (doesn't automatically mean you have much in common on an individual level..but a lot of black people have had similar experiences of being the only black person in class/ at work, being watched in the store, and with the women here, people's reactions to you dating white men, etc, etc)...., and ancestry...rather than something that dictates what you can or can't do..... Basically, I can be black and know every word to "Sweet home Alabama" (because, I actually did grow up in a very white area of Alabama for some time too!) while caring about some of the issues in the black community...and getting passionate about social inequalities (especially race related ones).. I'm just me! 'I'm both of those things but I'm a whole bunch of other things too...It's complicated when you try to choose...

Christelyn 8737 pts moderator

 MySmile Love you new avi! Your hair is the cuteness!

MySmile 4172 pts

 Christelyn Aww thank you! It was way past time for me to change my picture...

starzzzy 429 pts

I would have answered this question SO differently about 5 months back (it's a long story trust me) but at this moment I would say I am a Black woman first. Being in graduate school this semester with my 19 classmates who were all white (and mostly female) taught me this really quickly. I know it may sound weird but in a way I think "Black" meaning I see life through the lenses of my cultural background. This doesn't mean I am not open minded, but I am just mindful of my own culture and what that means to me.

 

Now on top of that I have a bunch of other identities such as nerd, female, 20-something, aunt, daughter, the list goes on and on. Those identities are just as much a part of my life as being Black.

Statuesque 1745 pts

I have many identities and roles, none are always in play or relevant. I use Black as a shorthand descriptor and also because it is frequently what matters in the racialized world, not because I fully embrace such a muddled concept that will never define me. I have ancestors from multiple continents and my majority African ancestry is beautifully impure and multiethnic. I am human first, woman second, American third and New World multiethnic/cultural mutt next.

onmywayup 1737 pts

 Statuesque "I have many identities and roles, none are always in play or relevant." 

This is my experience as well.

Veron 1398 pts

I feel like there were, are, and will be so many black women out there fighting for my right to identify myself as human first.  So I am.

heyimPearlilikefries 2091 pts

Happens to be sounds like its a mistake i was born black lol I am a woman that is african american that is black.

Patricia Kayden 1673 pts

I don't initially identify myself by my gender or race.  I am me.  Unique, distinct, special -- one of billions of human beings on this planet.

 

Am I proud of being a Black woman? Yes.  But I would be proud of myself no matter what I was.  Thankfully my parents raised me to love myself, regardless of the racism, sexism, other isms I may face.  So I cannot say that I place much emphasis on my race or gender as the essential part of who I am.  It just happens to be who I am. 

 

I love being a Black woman because it doesn't make any sense to waste your whole life hating who you are. 

JennMJack 1180 pts

So, as usual, I am the red-headed step-child in the room. I am definitely one hundred thousand percent black woman first. The two are mutually inclusive. For me, they cannot exist unto themselves. I am not saying that I see life through a racialized lens but I am hyper-aware (especially living in Orange County California) that those around me do.

 

I grew up in a predominantly black city (Oakland) and went to predominantly black schools. I am from what many would call the hood. And, I have experienced a lot of the statisticallyblack folk prevalent consequences of that upbringing. Likewise, my family members' lives are indicative of this upbringing as well. And, since I am married to a black man and have two beautiful little chocolate babies (hopefully one day it will be three), I am constantly aware of our shared "station."

 

I often feel that there are not enough folks willing to fight the good fight when it comes to race. And the whole notion of race transcedence (which I advocate) has become synonymous with race minimizing. I think one day, when I see a more level playing field and more equal circumstances, I will be human first. But, my black womanhood has put me in a great many situations where my humanity was disregarded. And, my black womanhood is often used as a reason to treat me and others like me as less than human. So, for those reasons, I am soldiering along the war-torn black woman battlefield until the fight is over.

 

 

Law Wanxi 5786 pts

 JennMJack 

You live in ORANGE COUNTY!?!?!?!?????

 

WHY?????

 

Given how you seem to feel about 'certain groups', why are you subjecting yourself to being surrounded by a bunch of people you openly detest? Is this some sort of bizarre self-punishment? 

 

I live in Irvine [although I may be moving to Coto de Caza in a few years] and I just can't imagine you ever having a moment's happiness there or anywhere farther away from LA than Irvine. Please tell me you live in trendy Long Beach or some place like that. 

JennMJack 1180 pts

 Law Wanxi

 Hahaha. Yes, I live in the City of Orange. Several blocks from Old Towne Orange in the heart of North Orange County.

 

I live here because of the schools, the safety, and because my husband grew up here. It was a hop skip and jump down the road from USC so here is where we landed.

 

So, here's the thing. I do not "openly detest" anyone. I especially do not openly detest other human beings who have just as a much a right to their beliefs as I do. I just choose not to force mine on anyone else and expect the same respect. I am an empiricist. I don't care about ideology nearly as much I as I care about measurable facts. And, I will consistently argue in favor of cogent, fact-based policy no matter who it does or doesn't favor.

 

I find happiness where my heart is. And as long as I have love, I am happy (be it self love, familial love, romantic love, etc.). I have a beautiful family and folks who are willing to deal with me everyday. I am a pretty blessed chick.

 

Now, do I want to live here forever? Not a chance. Will I likely move out of this good 'ol slice of American pie living in a few years? Indeed.

Christelyn 8737 pts moderator

 JennMJack  Law Wanxi Come to Temecula! Come to Temecula!

MixedUpInVegas 1646 pts

I'm a woman first and foremost, and an uppity old one at that!  My gender defines most of my other roles in life, and is a source of pride and satisfaction for me. I'm an American second, and feel damned lucky to be so in spite of the difficulties of the past.  I'm a wife, mother, sister, auntie, cousin, college graduate and a business woman.  I'm Black because that's in my blood and it shows on my brown skin.  My racial make up, however, is the least important thing in my life and does not define me except for my appearance.  Most importantly, I am an individual, a free citizen and, I hope, an agent for good on this earth.

R. Kamaria 854 pts

I will say that other people look at me simultaneously as a black woman. But it really depends on the circumstance. While I believe that most people will identify first with gender (men too), it's not always the case. 

MySmile 4172 pts

 R. Kamaria Yes! For me, it depends largely on the circumstances!!  Sometimes I put one before the other....For example, during the Trayvon Martin case, I was black first...When it comes to my views on abortion rights, how I like to be treated in a relationship, my safety when out walking from campus at night, etc I'm a woman first (get a little nervous when I see white males or black males coming towards me at night, as we have had robberies..most victims were females..)... They are both parts of my identity...but they do not fully define me..

 

Asia 195 pts

Its funny this question has come up on here because I took an ethnic studies course at school and my professor ( a white french man married to a black woman) asked us to write a paper answering this. Particularly whether we felt we were first and foremost our race and then gender or the other way around? When i wrote my paper I felt that I am black first and then a woman. However now a few years later I think about it and I am certain it's the other way around. I am a woman first and then my race comes second.

tracyreneejones 3535 pts

 I AM WOMAN...not a woman...WOMAN......and none of that other shit matters when the lights go off...the shade of my WOMAN-NESS is merely an additional physical treat. 

 

 

If gender trumped race then 'spoils of war' would not include rape of the women which disrupts the entire culture of a homogeneous group. 

tracyreneejones 3535 pts

I also wonder if my ambiguous treatment of race comes from my ambiguous physical traits and the various classes I was raised among. A woman is a woman and I am reminded of my gender far more often than I am reminded of my race, or lack thereof, though it is often intertwined. 

reem11 1111 pts

I am woman. And will not accept the garbage nor the sterotypes this world may throw at me.

Lexi88 2180 pts

Woman First! I LOVE being a woman and everything that comes with being a women. I would be ME no matter my race. Many of my beliefs stems from my upbringing and moral compass not my race.  Race will always be secondary. 

MySmile 4172 pts

 Lexi88 "I would be ME no matter my race. Many of my beliefs stems from my upbringing and moral compass not my race"

 

Good point! I have things in common with all types of people, especially if our upbringing was similar. I've come across women who are basically white versions of myself lol!!! So it has a lot to do with upbringing and what events shaped you throughout your life. When I was little, I used to "play shows" as I called it (basically, acting) I had so many different shows...where my main characters were white, black, etc...... I identified with many different girls and women growing up, including many who weren't black...especially in the books I read. I am aware of race and me being a black woman, but at the same time, my race doesn't define me, what I can do, where I can go, or who I can relate to...that's why I get upset when other people try to put me in a box that I obviously don't fit in. I've grown up everywhere from blackistan to redneck city lol...

 

During a high school choir trip to VA beach, I roomed with three white females...and my choir teacher (bw) and other people were surprised I wanted to room with them in the hotel...I guess, assuming I would have more in common with black females..This also plays out in how they assign roommates in college. I had a white female roommate in the dorms (surprised because most people seemed to be racially segregated by rooms too)..but when I moved to my student apt complex the guy automatically assumed I wanted to room with black females..I guess he was trying to play it safe...I like my roommates but I have little in common with them (not because they're black lol.....just because of their personalities...I have plenty in common with other black women who are similar to me..like some of the posters here!).

kiki100 630 pts

Finally an article by Christelyn. I see myself as black first here in the US. Back in home country, human first. There is more equality there. If there was less of a deal made about black women then that would change. I think it would be great if we were seen by others the way we see ourselves.  But experiences seems to say different based on the amount of black blogs and books and articles which speak to a specific experience.

Christelyn 8737 pts moderator

 kiki100 "Finally an article by Christelyn" >>>hahaha Christmas time is cray cray for me.

Brenda55 19328 pts moderator

Human Being

Gender female

Black. 

Citizen of the World.

In that order. 

The first two labeled by fellow human beings and dictated by biology.

The third labeled by fellow human beings and dictated by current social constructs. 

The fourth labeled by me and dictated by me.