Question of the Week: Are UK Black Girls Sour & Dour?

yeah, African and Caribbean girls never look bland. haha I don't even know where this post came from.

in fact, i've noticed that they even keep their figures in shape more than American black women.

I'm digging that. That's how its done. At the very least two people just made a new friend. ;)

Lol! Talk about taking a hop, a skip and jump! But I ain't mad at ya. :)

GENERAL READER DISCRETION ADVISED: May contain small amounts of British English. Translations in [], as warranted.

First off, do you sound like either of my favourite former ITN and [US] CNN news readers, HRH Daljit Dhaliwal, Queen of Current Events, or the fast rising luminary Isha Sesay? You get 20 points for sounding like either and twice Avogadro's Number for looking and sounding like Ms. Sesay!

How long will you be a House Officer in Family Medicine? The norm here in the USA is four years, after which you may sit for the exam to become a Fellow of the Society [Diplomate of the Board], then possibly pursue a speciality within Family Medicine via fellowship lasting from one to three years.

I feel that the MBBS/MBBCh system is superior to the US MD/DO system because the entire focus is medical. The US systems requires a university degree in "something" prior to the four-year MD curriculum. I encountered students with degrees in Art History, Mathematics, Biology, Political Science {"the art of the possible" takes four years to study?}, Music and the like. Four expensive years of education for what purpose? To prove oneself worthy of admission to medical school, I suppose.

I know a bit about both systems because my father, a cardiologist, is an MBBS, later homologated to MD with a year of study in the USA, and my mother, a plastic surgeon, is an MD. She went to medical school in the USA including resident training. My grandmother is a non-practicing MD(TCM) educated in Guangzhou. She had a California Acupuncture credential of some sort for a few years but is now retired and living with me. Her practice is currently limited to acupuncture for her Bichon Frise, Sparkle.

And now, altogether too much about me.

Since I knew from late childhood that I would be practicing instrumentation-based medicine, I chose to study Biomedical Engineering and received a BSBE from a polytechnic. The curriculmm is sort of a salad of Electrical Engineering, Anatomy/Physiology and Computer Science. This allows me to re-boot my computer, connect things to mains power, put a plaster on a cut and change batteries in a torch, LOL. However, unlike most of my colleagues, I actually know, at a circuit level, how an EEG machine works.

I went to a middle-of-the-pack medical school and did the Neurology and Neurophysiolgy resident training in the US Navy at various Naval Hospitals in the USA, except for six months of wetting myself from fear in Iraq. I'm still in the Naval Reserve as a Medical Corps officer, currently a Commander. I did a one-year Sleep Medicine fellowship after leaving active service.

I was born in the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong. Union Jack, "Dieu et mon droit", etc. My parents saw the handwriting on the wall in 1989, and dragged us, erm, enabled us to come to San Diego, California, purportedly for a fellowship in Cosmetic Plastic Surgery for my mother. We lived in La Jolla north of San Diego, then after US specialty certification for my father, in a nice section of Greater Los Angeles collectively called Palos Verdes, where my parents and younger brother still live. My older sisters are US-educated MD's, now living in Taiwan, the wives of astonishingly wealthy entrepreneurs *cough cut-throat City types cough* and practice obstetric medicine for those very few Taiwanese who actually choose to reproduce. My brother is a {shudder} solicitor [non-trial attorney] with an additional MBA, who concerns himself with the sort who could be broadly classed as entertainers and their associated investments and salary negotiations. I know, every family has one dodgy child, but at least he is (unlike me) compensated in the millions. For comfort and peace of mind I tell myself to be happy he is not a medical malpractice barrister [trial attorney].

I practice Sleep Medicine three days a week and four days a week I pursue an accelerated PhD in Neurophysiology. My research emphasis is Central Sleep Apnea, which is, at present, treated with similar methods to Obstructive Sleep Apnea. I hope to devise a better nighttime regimen involving real-time sensing of indicative EEG patterns via patient-friendly headgear with non-invasive sensors to achieve a multi-level positive airway pressure cycle, triggering the I-PAP as needed for the neurologically induced apnea episodes with timing algorithms to compensate for any concomitant Obstructive Sleep Apnea which may be present, as most sleep apnea is mixed CSA/OSA. If I'm fortunate, it will lead to a medical device I can license to a manufacturer for some commensurate fee. Hopefully, it will establish me as a known researcher.

If you suffer from delayed sleep onset or insomnia, I could send you portions of my dissertation. I reckon two pages read at bedtime should send you straightaway to REM sleep in about ten minutes and keep you in a proper sleep cycle for at least seven hours, LOL.

I'm told by my grandmother, who lives with me near Irvine, California and my sisters in Taiwan, that I was apparently separated at birth from a Taiwanese news presenter, Liu Baojie. I initally scoffed at this, seeing only a slight superficial resemblance. However, I've had roughly a dozen encounters with Taiwanese tourists in L.A. who mistook me for him and then wanted to have their picture taken with me, rather like Donald Duck at Disneyland.

He's the first man speaking, in the blue on blue tie. http://youtu.be/l5Dkjm0CWTA It's all in Mandarin, and I don't speak much Mandarin, just Cantonese. I actually watch a lot of Hong Kong, Taiwanese and Mainland {PRC} television, both on cable and streaming via the internet, as I find most North American television unpalatable. I listen to a lot of Chinese music via PRC music sites and YouTube. American music hurts my ears and insults my intelligence. I'm also a total fan of Hindi Cinema {Amitabh Bachchan says we should not call it Bollywood, and The Big B must be obeyed!} and watch several dozen Hindi, Tamil and Malayalam films a year, with and without subtitles. It's not like you can't figure out the plot fairly quickly. The Mainland Chinese also like Hindi Cinema music and, to no person's surprise, imitate it. The results are, well, hilarious.

I leave you with this for a laugh. http://youtu.be/4jwEB1VqUKU Some things are better left to the South Asians....try as she might, she just can't do that head bobble move.

I, first and foremost, will have to disappoint you sorely by revealing that I must get zero points because I neither look nor sound like Ms. Sisay. I lived the greater part of my life in Nigeria and when I'm in my family home (on London) I speak with a Nigerian accent for the most part. When I'm outside my house, I have been told I have a 'posh' accent. Meaning I speak like the richer folks in the countryside (or certain newsreaders, if you will). Take whater solace you will in that (and I'll have maybe five points if you are still giving them away).

You are right that the UK MBBS does focus mainly on medicine. The first couple of years involve learning a lot about biochemistry and physiology to form the basis of our medical knowlegde, and for the final three years we are unleashed on the wards. There are some variations of this format around the country, but is how it is generally. If one chooses, one can undertake a intercalated degree for a year to obtain a BSc (Bachelor of Science). And this is allowed during the final three clinical years.

Upon graduation, every graduate is allocated a two year fouundation training programme and could be posted anywhere in the country. I have just finished my foundation training in a dire town/city in the northwest of the country and have decided to take a year out to breathe and think clearly.

When I decide to do it, the family physicain training (General Practice (GP) training, it is called here), will take three years. There are two exams to take before getting a training post and at least two exams at the end, to become a fully registered GP and therefore, a member of the Royal College of General Practitioners.

Ok, this is officially waaaayyyy to much derailing of this topic. If you would like to tell me more about your dissertation (I can't promise I'll listen attentively), here's my email address: orcrista@yahoo.co.uk

It's 2:50 in the morning and I am going to bed. Joi gin (That's goodbye in Cantosese, right?)!

This what I wnat to know. It is frustrating to me to know that many of these BW could easily dazzle, but allow themselves to be swept to the 'invisible' catergory. It's incredibly frustrating.

Ok, I get that. At first, I thought the implication of your initial post was "why can't these BW be more stylish...like me" which to me seems really self-righteous. But I get now that you really are coming from a place of caring and compassion and wanting them to be at their best.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing lol. Matrix is not the best example, cuz they look quite sleek, sharp and elegant. In fact, I'd call that aesthetic "goth couture." Yet what you're describing with the women you see doesn't sound sleek, sharp and elegant. It sounds dowdy, like they're all wearing black burlap sacks. And if that IS a mass phenomenon over there, then maybe you're on to something. Or maybe black burlap sacks are simply "in" this season lol. Who knows.

Also, there is a subtext to the letter that rubbed me the wrong way, which I couldn't put my finger on until now: it reads as an example of contempt masquerading as concern. It's a variation on the trope of being "confused" about something as a passive aggressive way of dismissing/undermining the particular thing that one is "confused" about.

As for me, there have been times in my life when I wore black to retreat from the world, or to mourn, or because it looked sexy on me, or because it was a job uniform, or because I just plain felt like it, or because I ran out of laundry and that was all that was left lol. For every woman you witness, there may be plenty of reasons why each one does what she does, so why assume the worst?

Another reason why this article resonates with me so deeply is because I was one of those girls who was CONSTANTLY told to smile by complete strangers on the street, or told that I looked like I was tired. Gee...thanks? That's reeeeeeeally constructive. Rarely did a guy take the step of actually ENGAGING me in the kind of small talk that would evoke a smile. Instead, they'd command me to smile like sort of cult of femininity robot! WTF?! It's only recently that I learned that such behavior is part of the larger phenomenon of policing women's bodies.

Question: have you ever considered providing a service for those women as a wardrobe consultant and stylist? The next time you see a black woman hiding her beauty inside a black burlap sack, help her draw out her beauty, not by thinking to yourself that she ought to wear more colorful clothes, but by actually talking to her and highlighting what's beautiful about her (cheekbones, skin tones, etc.) and how that beauty would be even more enhanced by certain colors. And of course, if you look your super-duper fly dressed to the nines self, you subconsciously give her permission to do the same. Maybe you are meant to be that bold chick who approaches the seemingly unapproachable women, to make a difference in their lives. Since you have such a keen eye for fashion, why not use that gift? You could start an image consultant site for black women, which doesn't seem to exist at the moment. Sky's the limit.

As for your Indian ex-roommate, I understand where she's coming from, but I personally find it exhausting to be "on" all the time, dressed and made up to the nines to go take the garbage out and buy toothpaste at the grocery store. Then again, maybe my view would change if I learned a more time-efficient way of applying makeup (cuz it takes me FOREVER to do even the basic eye/lip stuff!)

Wow, Brooklynista, Hammer right on the nail head.....cool and well put!

You just don't get it, do you?
The masses of BW do not look "Gothic sexy chic" in all black, now you can stay delusional but I too have lived in London for two and a half years and saw the same thing Chi sees everyday.
In fact, I heard it's the same in the US with BW wearing dark colors, i read it on another BWE blog.
Instead of trying to excuse it and deny it, maybe you could learn something from it instead of being so defensive.
And also, she is not saying that BW should walk around smiling like clowns but instead just have a relaxed non defensive face and the all black attire is not helping that matter.
And BW could benefit from wearing make up.
A lot of BW i have seen could use some make up, just like every other women out there.
What is unique to BW that I have seen is discoloration and dark spots on the face after blemishes and i think it's due to a lot of BW having oily skin (which is a good thing) but proper skin care + a little concealer can help a lot and mascara and a little blusher. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes.
The tone here has been "Why should i do this and that, BW don't need make up! We are naturally good looking!!" I'm sorry but it just comes across as lazy and defensive and very childish.
No one is forcing you to stop wearing black etc we're just trying to help you look better.
Again, most BW do not suit all black it washes you out and makes you look ashy.
And why is it everytime you say something that requires effort you get the same "You are a wolf in sheep clothing you troll!"
Some BW have a long way to go, seriously.

Thank you, Observer. Thank you very much. You have put it extremely well.

All these comments that BW have beautiful skin and so don't need foundation etc is just shooting BW in the foot. If you can make yourself look better in ANY way at all, why turn or fight against that??? Where is the logic behind that?

I would love to be able to provide a service to these women, but as doctor, time is not in abundant supply for that along with my other pursuits. However, I won't rule it out totally as I want BW to be at our best whenever we can help it and I definitely don't think that is the case at the moment for way too many of us.

* as a doctor...

Doctor? As in MD - MBBS?

Oh, interesting!

Please tell me more...

Inquiring MD, Clinical Neurophysiologist wants to know.

There is a strong foot-shooting mentality that runs rampant among many bw. I see it here on this very blog all the time. They need to take a look at Betty Chamber's latest post, where she underlines that image is everything. How bw as a collective are perceived will impact each individual bw on a micro level. There is no need to feed the machine by acting "according to plan" - ie by adopting stereotypical mannerisms, over-sharing one's very personal secrets on an open internet forum (this information is your business only and you should share it only with people you trust or with a professional psychologist...not with all and sundry...) or by being frumpy. I'm like your Indian friend - I never leave my apartment without at least smacking on some eyeliner, lipliner and some lip gloss, even if it is only to run an errand across the street. It takes less than 5 minutes to do all of that, and it does brighten my face more than if I went au natural.

I get where the poster is coming from, and I respectfully disagreed, which you seem to be incapable of doing. And you misunderstood my response so thoroughly that I doubt you even really read it beyond a glance.

I didn't say most of the BW Chi is referencing are goths (a clear indication that you didn't read my response or comprehend it properly). I said, in a nutshell, that in ADDITION to the assumption that Chi implied as to why so many BW she sees are dressing blandly in black, there are a million other reasons why they might dress that way, so it's unfair of her to make a blanket statement, AND that rather than judging them from the privacy of a blog, go out in the real world and HELP them. At no point did I deny that there is some validity to Chi's observations (even if her words do have a self-righteous tone, I trust that her heart is in the right place).

So, as for you and your insults, you can keep that. You can also keep your projections of laziness, delusion, defensiveness and childishness that you clearly displayed in your response.

Ugh, this is why discussions like this are better off in person. Folks are less likely to get out of pocket and more likely to stay civil.

And by the way, in case you're wondering, I wear colorful clothing and have a great sense of style (shoot, sometimes I surprise myself with the combinations I come up with!), so it's not that I'm taking the original poster's comment personally AS one of the black burlappers. It's the policing of women's bodies thing that I chafe at, because it DOES perpetuate oppression.

Sidenote: the cool multi-purpose scarf thing I referred to in an earlier post is called a snood, and they are awesome.

A+ comment. I completely agree.

Is Chi from an Asian or Noethern, Eastern african background? Just wondering. Out and about I saw Muslim women head to toe in black. I also saw them accessories with very bright and colourful scarves/ headdresses. I think its ones own taste and choice. But, I truly get your point, bright colours make your aura bright. Thanks for sharing:)

I'm Nigerian :) I am well aware of muslim women and the different ways they dress. I have not seen a fully burka clad woman in a loooong while. If I did I'd not be including them in this because it's obvious why they are dressed like that.

Saying that though, they are a great example of what I'm saying. Some of these ladies accessorise like crazy! And I love it. Have you seen images of Saudi Arabian women who are forced to wear the all black burka and the way they make their faces up and look stunning? The only part of their bodies showing and they make sure it pops.

Thank you wanderlust. Im not here to put down black women. Im just saying what I saw in regrads to the hair situation over there.

In my experience (and please note this is mine, others may feel differently) there is a certain type of BW that really gets WW worked up; bearing in mind that many of them (and yes, I may be generalizing) are extremely insecure; if they believe WM will find you beautiful some can get very catty. I personally have NEVER had a good experience with any especially in the days when I bothered to look good.

This comment is very interesting, as it ties into what a UK based bwe blogger has said in her latest post. The context of that post is the reactions to Miss Angola winning the Miss Universe pageant, but she also does discuss the cattiness of certain ww in the workplace and how this can be dealt with. I personally would not "dress down" to satiate the jealousy of some pathetic, insecure woman. I know this is easier said than done, but I don't see why I must purposefully fade into the background to make somebody else feel good, at my expense.

http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/until-we-become-normal-and-comomplace.html

I am on vacation and had to check the date to make sure this wasn’t a Friday Funny. I am in Miami and I see a lot of White Women wearing sarongs on the beach. WHAT COULD THIS MEAN?? Are they taught to be ashamed of their thighs?? I just cannot wrap my head around this…

HAHAHAHHAHA!

I think people just like to pick on BW.

Women of other races are not compelled to wear colors and makeup or smile just to make other people happy, so why are BW? I see dour, unfashionable nonblack women all the time. In fact, since I live and work among whites, I see more dour, unfashionable white women than BW. Should they wear makeup and bright clothing to please me? I don't think so.

I think you are right, Kitty. People always have something to say about BW. The silly girls I work with are always pointing out bw bodies, hair, and style to me. No matter how bad a girl looks I refuse to play into it. I notice they never have anything to say about all the tacky women we see of their own races (I work part time in retail while trying to get into Grad school and work with mostly Latinas ) don't even get me started on how outraged they were about Ms. Universe!

Thank you for the insult, LBoogie, it marks you out as the classy bird that you so obviously are.

I know lots of people like to come to Chris' site just to disagree and cause coflict. I will not be replying to any other post you may put up in reply to this because I am not interseted in inane back and forths with inconsequentials.

If you have not been in the UK long enough to notice this trend, a more appropriate action would've been to either ask more questions to the poster or quietly read the responses from others that live here.

A poster already put up a link to Halima's site for a post she wrote last year that is almost identical to my question. I had not not read that post until yesterday and I laughed out loud because when I did, it was as if we were speaking with one mind. Did you read it? I suppose myself and Halima who do live here must be imagining things.

Lastly, nowhere in my post did I mention 'monoliths' or 'cults'. That is all.

Chi you are the one who came on here painting broad strokes and insults on women you do not know. How awful would your observations make UK based Black women feel? You took the time to write this mean email and now you are accusing others of lacking class?

Go over to Natural Belles tumblr page (naturalbelle.tumblr) or Folake on stylepantry.com and see how black women in the UK really dress. Both women are in IR relationships as well!

Cosigned 100% at boogie

I have to agree with this. I saw that when I was over there.

Maybe those ladies are newly arrived to London and are not that familiar with western hair care products.

Experienced U.S. beauticians could make a fortunate in the U.K., ladies that is something to think about.

Correction....fortune

I am a black American man who lives in London and the issue we should be addressing is the amount of bad hair on the sisters over here.

*blank stare*

Chris are you reading his mess?

He already got Erica. I hope no one else falls for this....