Question of the Week: “When Should Religion Be a Deal Breaker?”

 zipporah Mormons also believe that God was a man on another planet. They believe that any man (except for blacks for a period of time) can rise to become a god of his own planet. In fact, I would argue that Mormonism is even further removed from Christianity than Islam. It is quite disturbing how the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price equate black skin with evil and white skin with goodness.

I'm non-denominational and really more spiritual than religious, however, I would prefer to date a Protestant over a Catholic. It doesn't really matter to me if the man I marry is Catholic, I just prefer not to raise my children in that church. It has more to do with Catholicism's church structure and how they deal with internal issues than what they actually believe.

 zipporah Not always. It depends on the individual people.  If 2 people are really on the same page, external differences like religion won't matter.

 tracyreneejones  I agree to an extent.  I dated one guy who had tattoos of Matthew's Gospel on his leg and couldn't wait to tell me about his dad's church.  I was totally turned off.  I crushed on a Muslim guy who believes in his religion but also believes all religions are important and none is truer than another.

 ScorpioBeauty  tracyreneejones 

True dat.  As a mostly agnostic person (somedays I feel downright atheist), I agree with the Dalai Lama's apparent response to the question of which religion is best.  Instead of stating Buddhism or other ancient religion, he said:

 “The best religion is the one that gets you closest to God. It is the one that makes you a better person. Whatever makes you more compassionate, more sensible, more detached, more loving, more humanitarian, more responsible, more ethical.”  “The religion that will do that for you is the best religion”

http://www.slideshare.net/ohteikbin/the-best-religion

My non-religious self can relate to that because it focuses on the goal of being a better *human* being, versus being hung up on process or gateways (ie religions, temples, & their socio-political aspects).

 ImaniScully Have you read my book on church, religion and women?  "The Black Church Where Women Pray and Men Prey" www.womenpraymenprey.com. 

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 Deborrah  ImaniScully Self promotion, classy.

 codygman  Deborrah lol, right

 Deborrah I agree 100%.  My parents will be married for 30 years this week and their religious differences (Christian/Muslim) have never interfered with their marriage.  Their core values on family and how they live life is what's sustain their relationship this long.  I think inter-religious relationships become a challenge when one or both partners believe their religion is the one, true religion and/or they expect their children to follow the same religion they do.  Because then it becomes an issue of, can one partner persuade the other to believe as they do?  I don't have that mindset and it's surprisingly easy to meet people who are the same way but I'm betting it's my location.

I will say I could never be with an Atheist or Satanist.  Total clash in core values.

 Deborrah Gonna try my best to not get offended, here. But for some women like myself, "all that bible thumping" is a very central, crucial part of life. It's not "too much" when you are dating with the explicit purpose of finding a quality, loving husband for life. When you expect to have certain faith-based rules that form the foundation/inner workings of your relationship (abstinence, etc.) customs at your wedding (couples' prayer, Christian vows), and intend to have a marriage or relationship with God at the forefront...together...then religion should very much be one. It's asinine to try and fit a square peg in a round hole. Wanting to keep a guy should not take precedence over your faith, imo. 

 amiar10 No need to get offended by a stranger on a message board in cyberspace. What would you do that for? We are all adults here sharing our thoughts and opinions on the question posed by the owner of the website. You have one thought and I have a differing one. Shrug. I just know that black women waste a lot of time bible thumping and looking for men to thump with them and it doesn't happen. Black women that want to be married would do better to open up their options and their minds so accept that solid guys that will love and respect them until the day they die follow a variety of spiritual beliefs. Few men are as religious as black women, which is why black women are the #1 single group of women in the world.

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 Deborrah  ...that was totally in no way a response to anything I just said. Just a vomited repetition of generalizations and stereotypes from your first comment (and your website), dripping with condescension.Quite dogmatic for someone railing against supposed dogma.  I see this discussion won't be getting anywhere. Godspeed.

 Deborrah Whether religion is a deal breaker is totally up to the individual, who are you to decide what is appropriate to be a deal breaker for the rest of the world? You say that "All that bible thumping and all that is irrelevant to the core issues of basic human compatibility." as if it is a holy word or something, isn't that the very type of action you are trying to argue against?

Perhaps you need to take a step back and realize you are doing exactly what you are criticizing.

 codygman Look dude, I share my opinion just like you do. You are not the boss of me and don't tell me what to do. I do WTF I wanna do, and say WTF I wanna say. You don't have to like it, so what if you don't? And if you think me, one person, with a dissenting OPINION which is all it is, has the power to change every woman's mind in the world, you certainly perceive me to be a person of amazing influence and power. That's heady stuff. I think I kinda like it. Now bow down!

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 Deborrah LOL, did I say I was the boss of you. No, I said you weren't the boss of others and that your opinion was your opinion. I was just pointing out that you were misrepresenting it as fact, when things that are up to the individual, aren't facts.

I never commented on whether I liked it or not, what does me liking it have to do with anything?Did I ever say you would ever have any effect on this world?It's spelled "heavy". LOL, puhlease... get over yourself.

@Deborrah Not really. Take tithng as an example, some denominations swear by it others do not. It can be chaotic if one spouse wants to give 10% of the family income even if bills are do and the other doesn't. Let's not talk about the baptist who might be ok with birth control and the catholic who wants to let God decide how many children they should have. Lastly, I can't imagine the problems in a marriage between evangelical and an atheist. What will they teach the children aout each other's beliefs?

oos, tithing* and due*

 LorMarie  Deborrah"It can be chaotic if one spouse wants to give 10% of the family income even if bills are do and the other doesn't."

My husband and I had to deal with this issue in our marriage.  Coming from the Catholic tradition, my husband wasn't very familiar with tithing, especially the 10% aspect.  My husband's parents did give money to their church, but not a certain percentage and it certainly wasn't as emphasized as it was for me growing up Baptist.  My parents on the other hand, not only tithed but also gave church dues.  Although my Momma stated many times she thought it was unwise to tithe if you couldn't meet your other financial obligations. 

My husband is still not comfortable with idea of giving 10% of our family income to the church.  However, he did agree that I could give 10% of my monthly allowance.

The birth control matter was alot easier to work out!  We were both comfortable with the Catholic Church's teaching on the matter.

 The Working Home Keeper This is extremely important to me. I even disagree with many other non-denominational Christians on this issue. For some reason, Christians don't think that the rules on eating shellfish and resting on Saturday apply to them, but they have let the church brainwash them into thinking they are required to tithe 10%. If the laws that the Hebrews had to live under do not apply to gentiles, then tithing 10% is one of them. The New Testament says to give according to what your heart compels you to give.

"Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9:7).

We live under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant. Although, one is free to convert to Judaism and live under the Old Covenant if they want. It not only requires you to tithe, but it also requires you not to mix meat with dairy along with a whole host of other things.

 LorMarie  I specifically said "The goal is to be with a man that has similar VALUES, GOALS, MORALS and ATTITUDES about commitment, love, life and family." Everything you listed in your example above are differences on that list. Secondly, even Catholics use birth control these days, where you been? Lastly, anyone that would give the money the family needs to support the children and keep a roof over their heads is a fool, which has nothing to do with their religious beliefs. The #1 mandate is that you should only give what you can give "a cheerful giver" not one filled with angst and worry because the money is needed for necessities. That negates the "cheerful giver" part. Children of atheists and theists are taught both ways of thinking, along with creationism. Their children are much more well rounded and educated about different types of religion around the world than the children of religious people are. That is how it has been done in every such relationship between an atheist and a theist that I have ever seen. And the children are fine.

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@Deborrah I remember what you said but values and goals often comes from religious belief. Many catholics use birth control (and some are pro choice) but what does that mean if their official church doctrine teaches against it. We want women to make careful choices so they must "reconsider" getting involved with a devout catholic if they have strong beliefs against their position. Tithing has everything to do with religion and many churches/groups require it (my former church would remove you from membership if you didn't tithe---needless to say I'm no longer a member since I could not deal with the nonsense teaching). As for an atheist and a theist...one will teach the children that God is real and if they are evangelical, they will teach that unbelievers will go to hell (that would include their atheist parent). While the atheist would teach that there is no proof of a deity, thus religious belief is not important (some atheist are a lot more brutal). The children will certainly be well-informed of various beliefs but to the devout parent, it could be a "tragedy" if the child takes on the worldview of the atheist parent. If one looks at it from the perspective of an atheist, that's no big deal. Some religious groups are outright cultic and should be avoided by all...who cares about "embracing everyone's beliefs" we need to be careful. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with but for peace sake (and mental health's sake, getting invloved with certain Christians), it would be wise to avoid certain things from the git go.

@Deborrah I wish it were true, sometimes husbands and wives get into very big arguments over beliefs; since you are sharing your body, why not share your beliefs. I also notice it's MEN who pretend or dont want to know about GOD until they 'hit the wall''(no atheists in foxholes etc) women in 'general' are more open.Religion is more than CHURCH...

 zipporah  Husbands and wives argue about everything!!! Sex, money, discipline of children, household chores, extended family etc. Sharing your body does not require you to share your beliefs. That would mean that every couple would have to see eye to eye about everything, and we know that is unrealistic. Vegetarians marry meat eaters and have very happy marriages. Blacks marry whites and have very happy marriages. Religious people marry non-religious people and have very happy marriages. The happiness is dependent upon the two people and their willingness to allow their partner to be who and what they want to be, not on them being THE SAME.

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 zipporah  Deborrah IME it's women that are more gun-ho about religion.  Yes I've met men who are the same but I've met more men who are less concerned about what religion their wife is and more about their values.  

 MixedUpInVegas "Am I missing something to think that it is somewhat unfair to demand that your partner believe and practice in the exact way you do?  Are marriage partners not also individuals with the same rights to believe as they wish that we freely grant to total strangers?"

Exactly! What makes your religion (general "your") so much more important than his? I've always wondered that too when some black women say they won't date a man unless he goes to church with them on a date... well, isn't that potentially disrespecting HIS beliefs too?

@MixedUpInVegas Does he go to church at his church and do you visit his church sometime? My parents were protestant and became catholics a few years before i was born. Mom was into the YLI, taught 4th grade catechism, worked with Fall Festivals--etc Dad went to mass only sometimes--this is why i think men tend not to go to church, etc. he went later though

 zipporah  MixedUpInVegas

 Honestly, Zipporah, neither of my husbands had much interest in organized religion.  I went with my late husband to his church (he was Lutheran) when he asked me to  and saw almost no difference in the services.

Beloved Spouse says he wants to be Catholic, but I have not encouraged it because it isn't important to me.  If it was important to him, he would do it on his own.  I stay out of personal decisions like that.  I would love him just as much and we would continue to be happy together regardless.

Since my husband is an adult, I have no responsibility toward his spiritual inclinations.  My job is not to raise him but to be his loyal and loving life partner.  Anything beyond that is up to him.

 MixedUpInVegas "Am I missing something to think that it is somewhat unfair to demand that your partner believe and practice in the exact way you do? "

I don't think it's unfair as long as the person makes it clear up-front, before they get into a relationship, that they are looking for someone with the same spiritual practices. I don't think you should ever try to change someone's deepest beliefs, but there is definitely nothing wrong with stating up front what you are looking for and letting the other person know that if they are not willing to do the things you really want them to do then it is best that the two of you go your separate ways. 

MixedUpInVegas A story (true I might add) that happened in a neighbor hood a few miles from where I live.

A true fish story

A single gentleman bought a house in a predominately Catholic neighborhood.  He was not raised in the Catholic faith and the neighbors had no problem with him, except on Friday after work he always fired up the drill for steak.  Although the neighbors observed Fridays as a meatless day, the smell of wood fired steaks every Friday was starting to get to the neighborhood.  The community leaders decided to approach him about converting to Catholicism.  After a few weeks the man said ok, I’ll try it.  He attended classes and other classes, the Priest confirmed him saying “In the name of the Father, The son, and the Holy Ghost I now pronounce you as a catholic”, in six weeks.  Everybody in the neighborhood was overjoyed in the fact they would smell no more steaks on Fridays!  The following Friday, much to the dismay of the neighborhood the man was once again grilling steaks.  They all went over to his house getting there just in time to hear him say to the steak, “In the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost I now pronounce you a fish!”

 Bunny77 The answer to this is, No, I've had conversations with Black Baptist women about the similarities or differences between Judaism and Islam and whatever version of Baptist they were following (it seems to change church by church) and I've been told flat out that there's no reason to learn about another religion because they follow THAT/THIS God and that's all they need to know. I mean, I was told with a huff, a puff and a bulging forehead vein. I've been Bible'd at and gravely insulted older Black women at the suggestion I"m an atheist to my core, but I do find any historic text/culture to be interesting enough to learn about it. With that being said, I have no religion, but may have more religious knowledge then those who consider themselves SAVED/Super Christian. 

@tracyreneejones @Bunny77 Women being 'atheists' is quite odd. You must have had some horrible experiences with these women--i say 'odd' because women have the ability to have another soul in her body for 9 months.

 zipporah  Women being atheist is not odd at all, its just that black women that don't follow some invisible sky daddy are unusual because they refuse to follow the crowd and would rather think for themselves. Majority of black women are followers. They've been trained to be that way by society and men, and most certainly by religion. Black women don't ever even question their belief system, just blindly go along following it because that is what they were taught to do in childhood. Never questioning, never examining. And it does not mean that you have had a horrible experience or been hurt by anyone or anything. It merely means that you used your brain, realized that the bible makes no logical sense, and therefore you denounce the whole thing. That is how people arrive at atheism - logic. Being religious requires BLIND FAITH which means you ignore the holes in logic and reason.Men tend to be more analytical and logical than women, which is why women go to church and men do not.

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 zipporah  tracyreneejones  Bunny77 I know plenty of female atheists.

@zipporah Just going to tag in here. I find it interesting that you find only female atheists odd and not male atheists. Whatever views there are to be had about religion I have never thought, nor have previously heard of a school of thought, that suggest men and women have different capacities for faith (and lack of faith by extension). Also intriguing that the word "atheist" was put in quotes .... I am curious about this particular line of thought

 tracyreneejones There was a study I read once by the PEW Foundation, I think, that showed that atheists had the most knowledge of the basic tenets of other religions, followed by Jews and Mormons (I think).

At the bottom were black Protestants and Hispanic Catholics.

Also remember on Celebrity Jeopardy once how a black male athlete turned "minister" couldn't answer one question in the religion category. And these were easy, basic ones too...

I'm a non-denominational Protestant, but I know enough about other belief systems to make an informed and educated choice about whether or not I could co-exist in a relationship with a follower (or non-follower) of one of those backgrounds. I don't just decide I couldn't date a Catholic (for example) because of what other people told me about Catholicism.

 Brenda55That's how it should be :)