Question of the Week: White Guy Asks, “How Can I Get Over My Fear of Approaching Black Women?”

Dec 28th, in Question of the Week, by Christelyn Karazin

So as a WM fairly new to IRR (even though I have had interest in this direction for quite awhile), I have to admit that I never really was very sure how to approach a black woman as opposed to a white woman. I wasnt strong enough to be willing to overcome the taboo. And I am guilty of applying one perceived characteristic – race loyalty of BW as far as dating was concerned – to everyone in that group. So other than the part of these issues in my head, what do we do about some of these issues in a larger context?

Click on for the answer.

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If you guys haven’t met EarthJeff yet, he’s a newbie who is quite the enthusiastic reader. He’s been reaching waaaay back in the archives, reading and commenting, and I just so happened to see this question he just posed:

Hmmmm, this is a great thread. I am a bit sorry I found it months later, but I just discovered Christelyn’s fantastic site here and am enjoying going back through things posted in the archive. I really appreciate the “safe” feel here that allows for such open conversation, such real conversation. So as a WM fairly new to IRR (even though I have had interest in this direction for quite awhile), I have to admit that I never really was very sure how to approach a black woman as opposed to a white woman. I wasn’t strong enough to be willing to overcome the taboo. And I am guilty of applying one perceived characteristic – race loyalty of BW as far as dating was concerned – to everyone in that group. So other than the part of these issues in my head, what do we do about some of these issues in a larger context?

Okay I’m just gonna rant for a minute. Thanks A LOT LaKeisha, Shaniqua, and Boom Qui Qui for shouting from the rooftops that only a “brutha” will do, because you’re messing shite up for the rational, open-minded women who are probably getting passed up by quality non-black men because you can’t keep you big, loud, mouth shut. I’m not blaming you for global warming or anything (*cough* AIO *cough*), but THIS lies squarely on your lap.

Now Jeff, I’m going to go in on you. The best way to know that any woman is open and receptive to your overtures is to observe her body language. If she locks eyes with you for longer than three seconds, rinses and repeats for a minimum of three time, well, that’s enough. She’s interested. Bear in mind, however, that many many black women are used to more…ehr…overt come-ons, and they might not even realize you’re hitting on them if you don’t include “hey shoortie! Come here, lemme talk to you a second.”

I highly recommend you read “The Natural: How to Effortlessly Attract the Women You Want” by Richard La Ruina (the book’s on pre-order).Â He offers a good tactic of how to handle a woman who has made contact with you: Force her interest. “When you’ve made eye contact with the girl, provoke a response from her by doing something along these lines: pointing at her; waving; raising your glass; making a funny face; poking your tongue out. If you get a positive reaction, you can approach without needing to think of something cleaver to say.” For more pick up tips and tricks, go to puatraining.com/forceioi.

I know the other ladies will have a lot to say on this, so sit back and take it all in. Good luck, Jeff. You seem like a really nice guy.

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Patricia Kayden 543 pts

So Jeff, has all this excellent advice paid off? Have you approached any BW and not had your head bitten off?

Just being nosy.

P.S. I would think that all men, regardless of race, would be a little intimidated approaching any woman, regardless of race. I've seen White women insult White men who they weren't attracted to so rejection is transracial.

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AIO 454 pts

Jeff, I might be able to offer you some insight here. You see I am half-Black, but I look mainly White. I was raised mostly in a Black household/neigborhood/cultural context, so I will freely admit that that gave me an advantage with the Black girls in my hood/school/certain jobs, etc, and once they got to talk to me for a few minutes, but away from that context, not so much. What has always worked for me was to treat the Black girls I approached like women. Talk to them with respect, compliment them, tell them how cute/pretty they are, how nice their hair and/or outfit looks, etc. Yes Black women always have been my preference, but beyond that, I never looked at as, "Oh these are BLACK women, so I gotta approach them differently". No, I just approached them like women and treated them like women, and that has always worked for me. Good luck to you bro.

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pioneervalleywoman 85 pts

part 2 I treated it as a friendly conversation, saying yes I was, and I recall at one point in the conversation, he spoke about being in the military in the 1950s and his experiences there, as a young Italian man, very dark olive-toned complexion, being seen as white, when some of the black men he knew were darker!

The sense I had is that for him, his experiences with race have shaped his understanding of an interest in me as a black woman, he is a white man whose complexion is practically close to my shade (I'm a brown skinned woman, cinnamon-toned). As far as I can tell, he is attracted to women, period, so chatting to a young black woman is no big deal!

On a side note, I'm sure he was a real handsome charmer when he was a younger man, seeing how charming and distinguished he is now--older, established, he is a mechanical engineer. If we were both a lot younger and I were single, it would have been "on."

He showed up in the area where I was exercising this morning, and I greeted him hello, wishing him a happy new year. He said with his charming self, it is nice to see a beautiful woman in the morning. I told him thanks and said to him "you're an old-school gentleman." I probably made his day!

Light flirtation, it doesn't hurt to be charming, and as a woman approaching young middle age, I must say it is flattering!

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I have a story to share--part 1 of 2.

Some time ago, I noticed an older, distinguished looking white man at the gym noticing me; it is as though he could barely take his eyes off of me. It was nothing creepy looking, but he seemed to really notice me. I noticed but didn't pay attention or try to talk to him, as I'm married, so I just waited to see what he would do. I never went out of the way to try and exercise where he was, but he seemed to be assessing whether to chat with me.

He would always say hi to me when we were in the same area, and I would be cordial in turn. Once, when we were working out in the same area, he started chit chatting, harmless information, ie., how do I manage to go the gym regularly and seemingly without the impediments of a 9-5 work schedule. I mentioned I'm an academic and he asked about my field, he said "ah, an intelligent woman," cluching his heart. His daughter finished graduate school in a field similar to mine.

Another time, he "made his move," asking me whether I was married, or whatever. I said I was, and I could see the gears shifting.

reem11 363 pts

pioneervalleywoman

Thanks for sharing your story. I must say I love it!

You're welcome, and it is about perspectives. He has to be a man in my parents' age group, ie., in his 70s, but his experiences and how he sees himself is interesting in that regard, ie., living in the US and knowing about Jim Crow segregation, yet he was in an integrated military fairly early in his life, having the experience of being a dark-skinned white man who is darker than many lighter skinned blacks at the same time he is lighter and even similar in complexion to many darker skinned blacks...Where does he fit? So for him, showing interest in a black woman who is near his complexion is no big deal....

iamme73 16 pts

Look either a man is shy and doesn't approach women or he isn't. So if a man is saying "I am not shy in approaching women who are not black, but I am shy about approaching black women", then that man might have racial issues.

My tip for shy men is get other people to introduce you to women such as friends, family, co-workers, etc.

Betty Boo 245 pts

I agree with the ones who simply said get over it and what I mean by that I do not negate the fear of rejection that we all expereince, but I say that the desire of what you want must be stronger than what you fear. Fear cannot keep you warm at night, but rather cold if you ask me and all those peoples opinions you fear if you step out, what bills your house are they paying? Not one and I guarantee they are not awake at night wringing their hands in fear of your opinion of who they are with same race or not. So be it personal fear or fear of people, you cannot value that fear more than a healthy desire that will bring you happiness.............or maybe you could, only you can answer that one.

Blanc2 123 pts

Okay, my advice to him is to get over it and man up. Really. I am a slightly nerdy and very shy WM. Eventually, though, I figured it out and in my single years dated many BW, of all types and shades. All men, especially shy ones, are terrified of rejection. You just have to get over it. No different when it comes to BW.

I need to add something else. My "fetishist" hackles rise whenever I hear a WM expressing an especially high level of anxiety about approaching BW, as if there is something about BW that makes them anything other than ordinary human beings.

Men in general seem to forget that women are people, not objects.. If you are legitimately and genuinely intrested in her as a person, and not an object, be genuine and yourself and it will come through. This is the case with BW the same as WW.

The one thing I have found is that BW often have their bullshyte meters turned to a more sensitive setting when dealing with WM. Thus, if you're going to step to a sister, don't bring any bullshyte.

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Law Wanxi 3327 pts

Blanc2 "get over it and man up. Really"

You're not going to get rejected as much IRL as you get rejected in your own head with women in general of any or all ethnicities.

"All men, especially shy ones, are terrified of rejection. You just have to get over it." and then "women are people, not objects" BOOM, nailed it.

I got my pilot's license when I was 17. There was some terror involved, especially flying to small short airports with pot holes. That's fear, but somehow, I made it through it. I recommend it as a youth enrichment experience for boys and girls. You learn to handle panic and fear and stay calm.

Remembering that women are living human beings who are as afraid as you are is also important. It's particularly important to remember that the attractive woman you've exchanged glances and smiles and eye goo-goo with is not a d@mned IED. She might, maybe, blow you off, but I'm reasonably certain she's not going to blow you UP and leave you armless and legless. Your ego might get hurt, but no medics/corpsmen need respond.

My oldest sister told me something that stuck through the years. She told me that any woman who didn't want to go out with me was pretty much defective and she'd saved me wasting my time on her. Don't blub, don't whinge, just move on.

I think there's too much overthinking, too much paralysis from analysis going on and too many frail egos operative. These's too much pressure of perfection and people are having too much difficulty relating and just plain talking these days. Like the Famous Pedestrian said, "Can't we all just get along?"

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Blanc2 "Famous Pedestrian" should be "Famous Motorist".

SFbyDay 82 pts

Blanc2 Completely agree re: "fetishist" hackles rising. Particulary with the latest post discussing exploring desires and breaking taboos. I know many nonblack men see black women as a group and not individual women. Otherwise why the excessive fear? Why attribute the actions of a few women to the entire group? I would have many probing questions to determine intent if approached by a WM this way.

Christelyn 3210 pts moderator

In what way? SFbyDay Blanc2

EarthJeff 768 pts

SFbyDayBlanc2 I appreciate your opinion and would enjoy some real talk here. It isnt an excessive fear, but certainly a warranted uneasiness about differences - cultural differences that we may have in approach, response that go beyond the basic man/woman interaction.

SFbyDayBlanc2 Reflecting on those words, I do see how "exploring desires and breaking taboos" could be taken with a fetishist spin as opposed to how they were so intended. The taboo that I speak of is the still very pervasive feeling against interracial relationships. The world is changing in a positive way, we are breaking down those walls, but we in this community are still very much (and no pun intended at all) in the minority. Has that prevented me from exploring my desires for a relationship with a black woman because I have a preference for some of those characteristics that she has? Of course. Really, looking at THAT is a key part of this whole thread question. Should every woman be viewed simply as a woman, no different from any other? I submit the answer to that is no. We are all uniquely different due to all our experiences making us who we are (really, talking nurture here). At the same time, are we all really the same? Genetically, yes, we pretty much are. (Sorry, I teach Biology and often think with that spin as well).

Brenda55 4388 pts moderator

EarthJeffSFbyDayBlanc2

This has to be approached gently but I see where Jeff is coming from. Every race of women has unique physical characteristics and to say a woman is a woman is a woman misses this point. Is wrong for a non-black man to notice and react to and like those physical differences.Is it wrong for him to be turned on by them?

Further all black women are not the same. A black woman from the islands of the Caribbean has a different life experience and world view from ones from the nations of Africa and the ones from the USA and the ones from the nations in Europe and so one. Is it wrong for a non-black man to take these things into consideration when approaching a black woman?

eugeniamitchell 3484 pts moderator

EarthJeffSFbyDayBlanc2 But what you're saying is just what Blanc2 just said, if you're looking at these bw are individuals as you say you are then why have such a 'fear' of the group. He didn't say that all women are the same, he actually said the opposite. He said you need to see them individuals, as people and not objects and that may help you conquer your fear. This is actually some good advice, maybe it needs to be taken in the context it was given. He's a wm, he's been where you are, if he can do it, you can do it.

I understand your point. We men are visual/physical in terms of our initial attraction to women, and we all have our individual preferences. However, it's the nature of the attraction that I'm getting at. I personally happen to find BW beautiful in general, as a result of which, over time, I ended up dating BW exclusively and then getting married to a BW. But the initial attraction for me is visual/physical, in the same way that some guys prefer blondes or skinny girls, or whatever. Give me Alfre Woodard over Jennifer Anniston any day of the week, period. It's not some "exotic other" construct, as if BW possess some mysterious magic mojo that could be the elixer of everlasting life or some such. I realize there is a fine line, but it's precisely these types of fine lines each of us must learn to navigate as we find our way through affairs of the heart.

Bunny77 1024 pts

Jeff, I admit that I wonder about something here.

You work in Detroit. Detroit is 82.7% black. That's a WHOLE lot of black people that you work around every day! Ypsilanti, where you live, is not exactly Whiteyville either. :)

You are obviously comfortable mingling and interacting with blacks at work and school, enough so that you commute to the D to do so. I'm assuming they also like you as well.

So with all that being said, WHY do you have "warranted uneasiness" about cultural differences? You have more actual experience around black people than your average white person. My husband is from a small town that probably has like, 10 black people (not exaggerating here), and he's not the most extroverted person in the world, yet he did not go through so many mental twists and turns worrying about cultural differences dating a black woman.And you better believe that every Christmas, he is up in my parents' house in the D (not the suburbs mind you), as the one white dot among dozens of black folks and he cares not one bit. He was like that when we met... he treated me as a person and treated my family as his future in-laws and such... us being black was irrelevant.

" I realize there is a fine line, but it's precisely these types of fine lines each of us must learn to navigate as we find our way through affairs of the heart."

Thanks for this response. This is why I posted the question that I did. BW- NBM relationships are still relatively rare and there is a lot of baggage, misinformation and stereotypes that surround them. Who better to speak about this than we who are involved in these relationships.

On another matter. I am happy to see a growing number of non-black men participating on this site BTW. You all add a richness to the conversations being had here.

I second that. We build it, they come. ;-) Brenda55

Christelyn Brenda55 Hey, 50 some comments in 5 days, pretty impressive? Guess I am hooked on my new family here....

Brenda55 As one of those to whom you refer.... thank you. I am awed by all the fantastic dialogue here and how welcomed I have been made to feel joining. I am sure others feel the same. Even those that may not feel totally comfortable speaking out but do prefer to lurk and enjoy the conversations going on here

Bunny77EarthJeffSFbyDayBlanc2

My idea is that we should not be too quick to judge. The gentleman has stated his concern. Everything is not going to be in black and white. There are gray areas to which we will not always understand as we are on the outside looking in, sort to speak. My situation is not yours and yours is not mine.

Blanc2

"Give me Alfre Woodard over Jennifer Aniston any day of the week, period".

THANK YOU! Same here man, and to answer Brenda's question, no I do not think there is anything wrong with non-BM (Or half-BM) liking and reacting to BW's physical differences. Men White and not are always gushing over White women's physical differences, so why can't we BW lovers do the same?

SFbyDay Exactly. For the record, women as a group are terrifying, maddening, impossible to understand, and yet for some reason utterly irresistible. When I was a single man I feared rejection but figured out how to overcome the fear by being true to myself and approaching only individual women in whom I was genuinely interested.

Blanc2SFbyDay

The reason that the battle of the sexes will never be won by either side is too much fraternizing with the enemy.

Brenda55Blanc2SFbyDay Who is looking to win? Wasnt it Renee Z in Jerry Maguire that had some line about "maybe men are the enemy... but I LOVE the enemy" or something along those lines? I think we all need one big electronic group hug....

EarthJeffBlanc2SFbyDay

You got it

{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}

Blanc, PREACH!

Aabaakawad 483 pts moderator

Talk to the one in the "I ♥ White Guys" T-shirt.

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Lail Pegues 10 pts

I have fallen into the not sure he's hitting on me trap before when an other than black man has approached me. The approach has leaned toward the more subtle so I kind of missed it before. However, once I am sure of the situation I am just as receptive as I would be in any other situation. Just go for it. There is no difference. The same things work.

MyBetterSelf 41 pts

Lail Pegues "The approach has leaned toward the more subtle so I kind of missed it before." Same here. Thanks to this blog, I'm FAR MORE aware than before. Thank you Christelyn and the BB&W community. As a bw who's definitely into IRR, I didn't always clue-in on the subtleties of some non-bm's approaches and therefore missed opportunities to find out what could have happened. I completely agree with the previous posts encouraging you to "say hello." For me, that helps make it clear the man is interested in ME as a woman he finds attractive versus someone just making conversation. Thank you BB&W for helping me clue in on these subtleties lest I'd still be in the land of the lost. I definitely like GoneInternational's suggestion of picking a "third object" as a conversation starter. If the woman is responsive (smiles, maintains eye contact, etc., etc. -- gives the "green light") followup by making it plain. "Hi, I'm Jeff..." something along these lines. See what happens from there. Best of luck to you EarthJeff. She's out there. Don't give up!

jbutlergreen 25 pts

Just say hello already. I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from but you could also miss a great opportunity to make a nice friend unless you reach out. I hate rejection more than the next person and to be honest with you, I haven't had that many responses from the men I've reached out to online but at least I gave it a try. Someday, you'll make that love connection but today, I offer this advice. If you see a woman that peaks your interest, I want you to find some courage, look fear in the eyes and say "Go on now, go. Walk out the door. Don't turn around now, cause you're not welcome anymore. I've got all my life to live, I've got all my love to give. I will survive!" Seriously! (you gotta love Gloria Gaynor) By the way, how do we contact you for a status update?? :)

jbutlergreen Gee, thanks, cant get that song out of my head.... lol. It will be rattling around in there all night.... I am one of those geeky freaks that actually liked some disco (Donna Summer? Hot Stuff? Yep, an I-tunes purchase. Just dont say the Bee Gees.... Please, dont say the Bee Gees... Time to lose a corner of my man-card, now quoting sappy love story movies too...

This comment has been deleted

PearlEarthJeffjbutlergreen

Same here Pearl, Donna is MY GIRL! She was one of the first in my long line of never-ending BW crushes!

EarthJeff

See we have something in common already. You just didn't know it. And so it begings.....?????

modernmystic 105 pts

CK, you may have another calling as a matchmaker. Like Patti Stanger, (is that how her name is spelled?, you know the Millionaire Matchmaker. My guilty pleasure. )

Did Jeff mention the age range he's interested in dating?

modernmystic I am in my upper 40s. Anyone who doesn't think "wow, he is too old for me" or "geez, he is too young for me" would be my interest range.... ;) Southeast Michigan is geographic range.... Windsor is close enough but too big a pain to cross the border nowadays. Toledo is acceptably close. You would think with such a wide range.... hmmmm

Lili2009 1216 pts

In my single days, I would've been mortified had a white man I was interested in said, "Thanks but I prefer white girls." UGH! There is an extra sting to that rejection. And although I had crushes on white men, I always figured I couldn't date one because I never saw that coupling out and about (and I sure as hell didn't have the guts to flirt.) It was only when my coworker/friend (a white woman) claimed to know a few guys who were interested in going out with me if I was interested. My first reaction was, "how does she know so many black guys?" Sad! So, I get where Jeff's coming from totally!

Well Jeff looks you got a lot of varied advice and much of it is great. As I advise with taking advice, take what you can use and leave the rest behind. Be who you are, not every blk woman will want it but SOME blk woman does. Just as I say with most bw who are nervous about wm, you only need one. You don't need all bw to love you. You only need one, which means you'll face some rejection but as someone said below don't let that get you down. We've all been rejected it hurts the ego but we get over it and move and just don't hold it against all bw when some nutty one rejects you, she's crazy that's her issue not yours. I know ppl talk of the shy wm, I must say I have yet to meet him but I've also only dated wm so I get that you guys flirted a little different but not that different LOL. It may also be where you live, where I live most wm seem really comfortable asking out and dating bw. So it's not only differences in culture which aren't that different, we're all Americans, it may be regional. Those things make a difference in who ppl are and how they act. I wish you luck finding the woman of your dreams, she's out there. She may be here on BB&W don't overlook there's some single ladies on here looking and we got some awesome women on here. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

cherry_LA 7 pts

No don't poke your tongue out at me (it's weird). I like to be approached they same way as my any of my other friends. Say hello, make eye contact, walk up to me, comment on my cute outfit, say I'm pretty and all the normal things you say to any woman your interested in meeting. I'm a middle class sort of woman (college educated, professional, average boring American) so you don't need a magic bullet to say hello. But I can only say what I expect from a man ...

cherry_LA

THIS!

Flutter 147 pts

Pearl

Ha! Epic!

Luna Noire 396 pts

HAHAHAHAHA! God, I must be getting old! That seems incoherent to me. Still, I love it, its got a certain infectious cadence.

I hate feeling like an old lady! Now I'm laughing at myself...

PearlLuna Noire

I have to say I so agree Pearl.

Pearl So sad; he lost you AND he ended up in [shudder] Bakersfield.

Pearl I teared up just at the thought of moving to BakeOven.

But Grandmother Chu loves Bakersfield. She talks lovingly about it at least once a week. She's only been there for one afternoon once to sign some paperwork, but she loves loves loves Bakersfield. She owns a couple of acres there, working for her 24/7, at least while the spot call on Low Sweet Mix is above Eighty, otherwise the donkeys go back to sleep, to awaken at the magic number.

OK, because you're young, just this one time, I'll give you a clue: http://science.kqed.org/quest/files/2011/07/seepbakersfield.jpg

I WAS going to let it go at that picture, but this is a teachable moment. When you're looking for a life mate AFTER COLLEGE, avoid the ones who can recite Kobe's and Jordan's assist averages by season. They read the sports page and throw the rest of the paper away. Avoid those ones; side-eye and leave. The ones who can effortlessly decode that "donkey" sentence from above and add in "Well, yeah, costs more in electricity below Sixty than you get FOB from TEPPCO" are worth your time. They may have cribbed it all from the WSJ, but that's sign of potential in itself.

Mocha Z 1795 pts

Law WanxiPearl

"When you're looking for a life mate AFTER COLLEGE, avoid the ones who can recite Kobe's and Jordan's assist averages by season. They read the sports page and throw the rest of the paper away. Avoid those ones; side-eye and leave."

Pearl, dahling, if you haven't heard anything else puhlease with a capital P take this seriuously!

If he likes sports, tennis is a good one, lol. Yes, I am biased.

Mocha ZPearl I think the donkey pumps threw her off. Most people think producing oil wells look like

http://www.redwingaerials.com/images/740_ENERGY_OIL_AND_GAS_IMAGE_4966.jpg

which is a drilling rig, not a long-term production well. Maybe it was too much oil investor and pump owner jargon. IDK.

Question of the Week: White Guy Asks, “How Can I Get Over My Fear of Approaching Black Women?”

Author : Christelyn Karazin

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Question of the Week: White Guy Asks, “How Can I Get Over My Fear of Approaching Black Women?”

Author : Christelyn Karazin

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Definitely not your mama’s relationship book…

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