Got this note from a reader….
I have this huge problem and I know that you have the most current insight on the answer. I would love to swirl, but I’m a full figured woman and I have been told by plenty of women that white men well most non-black men don’t date full figured women. Is this true? I’m in the process of working out and getting more healthier but truth is, I will never be small, I’m always going to have a fuller figure. I guess it’s just my body frame, but besides that is it the truth behind what I have been told about swirling and being full figured?
I’ll believe white men prefer slender womben when I never see another fat white womban married to a white man aka when Say Yes To The Dress only features womben of color.
My friend, someone who has been featured on Evia’s site based on a YouTube video she created with her white fiance (now husband) has always been an extremely thick womban and has gotten bigger since she met her husband. He literally looks like an A&F model. They’re very happy together.
And Lord spare me from being with a man who will leave me if I gain weight. Lord, spare me from being with someone that damn shallow. *smh* That’s like a man leaving his wife if she goes natural.
Sorry, I meant to say, “Say Yes To the Dress: Big Bliss!”
Is it me? I can’t hear the video.
@ReneeMoore I guess it’s not just me either, had to turn my sound up on high but could hear it.
@ReneeMoore Yeah I really appreciate these videos but I wish they’d use an external mic. Sometimes they can be really hard to hear. I also feel this way when people play music throughout their videos (especially with lyrics). They often have great stuff to say but it can be very hard to hear them and if there’s music then it gets loud. Perhaps one of the readers with technical knowledge can recommend an inexpensive efficient setup.
I know you said that this hotel was so gorgeous, but I don’t see it: Both of you ladies look sooo beautiful. I don’t understand why they you would put you in a grey corner with plastic cups of water for your interview.
On the other hand, the audio quality was great – so maybe that was the trade off.
Great conversation!
I sure wish I could hear this. I’ve tried every browser I have and no joy.
Well, Im sure weight plays a factor in all romantic relationships, but honestly? I think women put way more focus on it than men do. That isn’t to say that men don’t care at all. Because they do. I just don’t think they care as much as we think they do. You don’t have to be a size 00 to please most men. As long as you’re at a healthy weight, and fill out your clothes nicely. I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
Even a girl who’s ‘a little chubby’ or a girl who doesn’t have the ideal figure won’t have too much trouble finding a date. I mean, really. Its not like we live in a world full of Victoria Secret/Abercrombie & Fitch models. Most white people in this country aren’t rocking State Of The Art bodies and they manage to hook up, date and get married just fine.
I say, as long as you aren’t like 80+ pounds overweight (and it shows) or look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UrdSzR0BxU you shouldn’t have that much of problem.
@sMoriarty Word. I used to be so down on myself about my weight and while I have lost a bit(like 10-12 pounds) I’m still a size 14/16. And I don’t remember having this many suitors in years. Old men ask me out, young guys ask me out. Old men stare at me, married men stare at me, puerto rican men, black men, white men, indian men. They don’t care about weight as much as women do,especially not as they get older.
@nieshasdavis See, that’s what I’m talking about! 😀 I have a similar situation. I lost about 15 pounds and am now at a size 10/11 (but looking forward to losing more)..and I definitely notice that more guys (of all colors) are attracted to me…I guess when you feel good about yourself, other people notice that..Of course, losing weight helps..but the confidence that comes with the weight loss is big plus!
@nieshasdavis @sMoriarty See, that’s what I’m talking about! 😀 I have a similar situation. I lost about 15 pounds and am now at a size 10/11 (but looking forward to losing more)..and I definitely notice that more guys are attracted to me…I guess when you feel good about yourself, other people notice that..Of course, losing weight helps..but the confidence that comes with the weight loss is big plus!
@sMoriarty “That isn’t to say that men don’t care at all. Because they do. I just don’t think they care as much as we think they do. You don’t have to be a size 00 to please most men. As long as you’re at a healthy weight, and fill out your clothes nicely. I don’t think you have anything to worry about.”
You basically said everything I wanted to say. .This is one instance where average is good enough.
“Most white people in this country aren’t rocking State Of The Art bodies and they manage to hook up, date and get married just fine”
I really think some black women think all white women and non black women are walking around with stick thin figures or something…and “that’s what you have to do to attract white men” :-/ Unless you want a David Beckham look alike, I don’t think so. You better dress appropriately for your size, get your sexy self out there and work it!! 😀 (I know I’m corny you guys, don’t judge me).
@MySmile @sMoriarty It might be more true that people who are dating outside of their race are apt to be comfortable with more or less difference than are others. Take a black guy who’s out for white women; is he more likely to chase Coco or that little thing who played “Ally McBeal”? No secret there, eh? Similarly, with white guys, just flip the amount of junk in the trunk with which he’s likely to be comfortable. Some people will always seek to go radical in such things, whereas most will cut down on the amount of non-dairy creamer. (Never underestimate the tendency of people to unconsciously factor in the possibility of future babies here. Every grandparent’s first impulse is to try and find a family resemblance, especially when they’re the father of the groom.)
I am a big gal myself……and enough of you have seen me so you all know I’m telling the truth. I am ringed up to a rainbeau.
There is someone out there for everyone.
Now lets get blunt for a moment.
1.) If you are big but your grooming and clothing choices are on point you will attract a mate.
Too many plus sized gals give up or think that they will pay attention to that stuff when they are thin and get the whole new wardrobe. Do it now. Invest in properly fitting foundation garments, footwear and clothing that flatter. Tight on fat does not make you look slim. It make you look like a stuffed sausage.
Poor choices in foot wear make your feet look like a rolled beef roast. It also affects how you walk. Waddling is not graceful and too many large gals walk around like their feet hurt. That is not a good look and turns off men.
Get properly fitted shoes at a comfortable heel height.
I think it is time for some fashion and grooming tips for big gals.
Keep your hair and nails up. Neat is good. Find a style that works with a full face.
3.)Be scrupulous about your hygiene. Funk is a turn off and if you have an issue with that due to your size be honest about it and take steps to stay fresh during the day. There are products that work and you may need to take a moment during the day while at work or before you go out directly from the job to freshen up.
4.)Check your attitude. If you are not satisfied with the way you feel about yourself it shows and that is the first thing some guy is going to pick up on.
You can smell a man with issues a mile a way. Well men can smell a woman with issues a mile away also and will do the same as you will. Run in the other direction.
The big gals that I see out there with men are fun to be around and accept their size. No one likes a Debbie downer.
5.)Keep you diet regimen to yourself. You weight loss program is the last thing a guy wants to hear about while on a date. If your are out just order what you can from the menu enjoy it and his company. He does not need to know or care about why you are eating the way you are. He also does not want to hear you longing to be the thin gal you see in public or in the media.
6.)There is a world beyond your size. Be able to talk about a multitude of subjects and not just diet and exercise. Dull is a drag no matter what your size.
7.) Finally when it comes to taking the clothes off relax and have a good time. The guy pretty much knows what is under your garments and if it has gotten that far he does not what to hear all of your anxieties or have to coax you our of your clothes when he is about to get busy.
Want him with the same vigor that he wants you and it will be fine.
@Brenda55 “Too many plus sized gals give up or think that they will pay attention to that stuff when they are thin and get the whole new wardrobe. Do it now. ”
This. All day long. There is this mentality that some women who are working on themselves physically get where they think, “Oh there’s no point in me working on my style now because I’m so big! I’ll wait until I’m a size ____ to care.” The truth is, if you don’t care now, you won’t care then.
I experienced this, and it’s shocking in retrospect that I was okay with not caring. I have my OWN style now, and it’s so cool to know what looks good on you and what doesn’t, what fits your tastes, what colors flatter you, etc. You don’t need to postpone investing in your style and how you look and I wouldn’t recommend it. The reason being that investing how you look, health and style wise can give you a feeling of real confidence. You feel comfortable because you’re doing your own thing, and it really does show.
So don’t wait to dress to the nines, do it now! o/
@Brenda55 Ok you said it and said well. Thank you!
Evia has posted all kinds of brides on her blog; thin, curvy, tall, short, regular sized, plus sized, dark skinned, light skinned, cafe au lait, weaves, braids, locs, afros, single , single mothers, etc. and they all found quality mates. So I do not agree that a woman’s weight keeps her out of the game or limits her options. Men have different tastes and preferences when it comes to women. My brother has a friend who is a skinny guy, but he loves large women, his wife of 2 1/2 years is a lovely size 24 nigerian girl. But I agree whole heartedly that the attitude, hygeine, appearence, etc. can be a the real deal breaker not the dress size.
@DUsher Thank-you. Also when you all go over to Evia’s blog and look at those photoes. Take a look at the guys. Most of them are average guys. Average guys with good jobs who are willing to treat a woman nice, commit and settle down. Those women have their piorties in the right order.
@Brenda55 Yes they do!
@Brenda55
Well said,. Ladies if you are looking sloppy no man, even if he loves plus size women will not give you a second glance.
Everything thing that was said on the video is true…but I believe that if you are not happy with yourself you can’t be happy/confident with a significant other…How are you going to pursue a person male/female when you are unhappy about your appearance…The choice is yours….. be miserable and allow people to take advantage of you or be a happier you and walk into a room with confidence…I know men are visual..to the extreme..but women are visual too…and you can’t be fake to you…but we have to understand its all about being comfortable with you…there are a lot of plus size women that are confident…and it works for them but the key word is confident…if you are not it will show….I have a serious issue with being healthy…I want to be in a relationship its been a long long long time…but I don’t want to be in a relationship that is not on my own terms…so I have to wait and take care of myself so I can be happy when I’m ready to go into the dating world…trust me I’m far from delusional…but its all about me…
@josie3144 What does that really mean?
If a guy you were intrested in asked you out right now would you give it a go or would you pass?
@Brenda55 @josie3144 If a person doesn’t feel good about themselves then how will you feel good about the mate you choice…I think I would pass
@Brenda55 If a person doesn’t feel good about themselves then they wouldn’t be able to choice a proper mate…I would probably pass right now…
Yes and No. If you’re healthy and firm you get more looks, compliments, and men will pay for your coffee. Men like healthy women. If your healthy.. and full figured.. (that can mean a lot of things), then no that won’t stop you, you’ll get compliments and yep guys will buy you coffee. Now if you are obese and unhealthy… that’s a whole ‘nother thang honey.
I like my men fit and healthy, so I need to be fit and healthy.
@SheThrives11 I am glad that you are bringing up this point.
I think that the reason that some women are having trouble meeting men is not just a structural one. For every women who is having a difficult time there is a women who looks like her as far as size, shape and age who has someone. This is not just a black woman thing by any stretch.
Some women are not hitting it off because they are not realistic about who they are, what they look like and how they carry themselves.
This is my question.
How many of you have done an honest appraisal of your own looks before you head out on the dating scene?
How many of you big gals are passing the big guys by that may be interested? How many of you ladies are passing on older guys when your long in the tooth yourself. What if the guy is shorter than you are?
How many of you are passing on Joe Average and see it as settling when you are really no box of sweets yourself?
Quality men come in all shapes, sizes, colors and ages.
Some people what prefection but can you offer the same? I know women love those plain jane get the hunk stories. Or the stories of the guys who see the “real you under the flab” but is that even remotly realistic. What about you looking a little deeper?
@Brenda55 You’re preaching! I think that may be the case a lot of the times. If you’re a thicker lady, don’t look down on a thicker dude. If you expect people to be attracted to you for who you are, you need to return the favor.
@Zindzi_Zenani @Brenda55 I’m glad somebody said this…Some women are really holding out for that Matthew Mccounaghey, Ryan Gosling, or whoever….I love average Joes! I don’t expect women to date someone they’re not attracted to, but you can’t tell me the only people who spark your interest are guys who look like they came out of GQ magazine…guess some people really are that shallow though.
As for shorter guys, I don’t know about you all, but I just can’t do it. That is where my shallowness kicks in..I’m only 5’5″ (okay maybe 5’7″ with shoes and fro height lol) ..I am not shallow in most other ways, but I’ve tried the shorter guy thing, and I didn’t like it..at all!!! At least I tried lol..
@MySmile @Zindzi_Zenani @Brenda55 Heh I’m also not keen on short guys so why pretend?
As for holding out for those types of guys you named… Personally I don’t think it’s the case that when somebody specifies that they want an athletic guy with a healthy lifestyle it equates with looking for the Hollywood/GQ specimen. I for one want somebody who takes care of themselves.
@SheThrives11 Exactly!!!
I am going to be honest about my experiences, more white men around my age approached me when I was thinner it may not hold true for everyone but it did in my case. I am 21 and it seems that younger men(20-30) are more concerned with the woman they are seeing being thinner. The guy I most recently dated was 39 , and he wasn’t as obsessed. I am 5’10 so 125lbs was very lean toned and modelesque for me, 155-160 is OK but I dont think I look my best and I feel like crap, it’s just too much weight for my frame I have slowed down and I feel tired which is why I am losing weight to get back to my old size
. Keep in mind I am not very fashionable I am a t-shirt and jeans type of person, dresses and heels are just uncomfortable to me but I do make an effort to make sure my hair skin and nails are kept up/maintained and I do wear some make-up, so being fit and healthy is a bonus for me.
@thecrazyartist When am I gonna see you on America’s Next Top Model? ‘Cause from your description, sounds like you’d be what the catwalk’s been lookin’ for (bwaahhaaaaa)?
@cupcakejune81, no disrespect to you, but I’m deleting your comment.
I’m doing it because it promotes eating disorders which is what “pro ana” does. For those that don’t know, “pro ana” stands for pro-anorexia. As promoting anorexia nervosa and in some cases bulimia.
I’m not necessarily aware of exactly who follows us, but such a post could be triggering for someone with an eating disorder, and I’m not taking the chance.
I’ve been through those spaces, and for all the talk of weight loss, fear of fat, and even fear and hatred of food, all I felt when reading those posts was pain and sadness. For those persons rather than myself, and I would strongly recommend anyone avoid “pro-ana” spaces. ESPECIALLY as I said, if you suffer from an eating disorder and may be triggered. There are plenty of sites that promote health and exercise and taking care of yourself in a safe and sensible way.
Let’s stick to that. o/
@Toni_M I read her post in my mail boxx but had no idea what pro ana was.
Eeeeeeeeek!!!!! I agree with your reason for taking the post down. Getting fit in a safe and healthy way should be promoted
I liked the bulk of what she was saying and she made some very good points about her experence and the pros and cons of losing weight and I am happy that the poster has been sucessful in reaching her goals.
Keep up the good work cupcakejune81. Stay fit AND stay healthy.
People think this is a simple fat v. skinny question, but personally think there is a lot else to consider. Because as I’ve said many times in my comments on this topic, we’re not white men- we haven’t a clue what they all really like. Black women should be losing weight to get fit and healthy, full stop. Being attractive to men, men of other races should be a pleasant side effect. If your sole reason for losing weight is to attract men you’re either going to be miserable the whole time because you will be unsure of who likes you for you. Or you won’t keep the weight off for long.
Also, I’d like to note to the woman asking the question in particular, and I say this will all due respect. If you’ve never been thin then you really don’t know what you’re real body frame is like then you don’t know if you’ll “always” be full figured. I don’t know your size or your goals and preferences, but if you look at black women like BeautifulBrwnBabyDol, she lost from very big to very petite and continues to tone and shape her body. You won’t know what your body is capable of unless you do it. So don’t simply resign that you’ll always be full-figured even if you lose weight. That’s just continuing to hold yourself back from your full potential. You definitely don’t have to be super slim, but I’m just saying, don’t limit yourself when it comes to your own health and feeling good about you.
Back to the topic at hand though. We cannot look at white men like they’re all built like David Beckham and that they all expect their woman to look like Posh. That is simply untrue. The other day I was on a city bus and I saw the cutest IR couple. A chubby black girl was holding hands and kissing up on her white boyfriend, who was also chubby and a little nerdy looking. And I thought, wow it’s not only great that he chose her, but also that she chose him. Because most black women would not be checking for this type of dude who looks like he just crawled out of his Dungeon and Dragon’s alcove in his parent’s basement yesterday.
This whole judging people on their looks thing is a two way street. I personally don’t see how black women can be so up in arms about white men’s preferences for thin women when they make no apologies for their own preferences. If you are only interested in men that look like David Beckham and you look like Madea, well 2+2=fish honey. That goes without saying. If you’re unwilling to ease up on your preferences or do something to change your body then you will mostly likely find problems in finding a mate.
But again, no one said dating white/non black men meant you had to be a size 0. So I really see the whole I’m losing weight but I’ll never be skinny enough for a white man as a cop out honestly. If people are looking for excuses as to why they don’t want to move forward with IR dating, there’s not a lot we can do about that. Or if they’re looking for excuses for why they shouldn’t push their body to the limit, again not a lot we can do.
Most of the women in real life who are into IR dating are not stick thin- in fact most of them started losing weight after being stable relationships- for themselves, not for their partners. I have one friend who has the best luck with white men. *Every* time we got out she’s always chatting up a new guy. And while she’s far from overweight, she’s definitely not twig skinny either. You know what attracts these men to her? The fact that she’s gorgeous, presents herself well, she speaks five languages and knows how to keep a conversation interesting in all of them. She has the personality to go toe to toe with these men. I personally find that sometimes people like to hide behind their thinness or standard beauty as an excuse to be devoid of personality and I’m pretty sure that’s not we want. We are not looking for shallow relationships, so when these shallow ass men tell you that there are no white men in the world that will appreictae a *woman’s* size and/or shape, you keep it moving. You develop your body the way you want, you develop your personality the way you want and you find the best man you can find. Full stop.
And other’s have also mentioned that if a big woman takes care of herself and is put together she won’t want for a man. That is the absolute truth. Being big is one thing, but being big and sloppy an wanting a put together man is a totally different thing. Yes opposites do attract, but for the most part people get together through compatibility. Their choice in partner is basically a reflection of themselves and how they feel about themselves. That’s why people always say you have to be what you want in a mate.
@VintageNarcissa Vintage, I could not have stated this better.
For the second to last para I meant most of the women that *I know* in real life that date IR are not stick thin.
In fact, the one black woman that I know who is stick thin and into IR has the most trouble with men because she has no personality. She has no problem meeting them, but she doesn’t know how to keep them.
@VintageNarcissa Does she have hobbies? Things she’s passionate about? I’ve never understood being unable to carry on a conversation, unless it’s with people you just have zero in common with. But otherwise, given current events, your passions ,etc it should be pretty easy to converse with someone you’re interested in or vice versa.
@dani-BBW LoL! I haven’t a clue honestly. I don’t speak to her anymore. In fact, my good friend who introduced me to her has been trying to drop her as a friend for as long as I’ve known her. She (my friend) simply feel obligated to be her friend because they’ve known each other since high school. Most of what I know about the girl is from what my friend tells me (complains to me about). We’ve only interacted with each other one on one without my friend there a handful of times, meaning, less than 5 times in the about 3-4 years that we were cordial. I won’t go into the whole drama between me and her, but the bottom line is she’s very shallow. Her closest friends other than my friend are also very shallow so that’s how she maintains relationships. As for men, she meets them in shallow situations, at bars, clubs, sketchy online dating sites, where there’s not a lot of talking going on. After that, she has sex with them on the first date, and a lot of it is not them trying to take advantage of her. She’s the one who compulsively puts herself in these situations and then cries about not being able to find a good man. Once she was seeing a man who wanted a relationship with her, and she met this other man who she was interested in at the same time. She came to me, my friend and my boyfriend for advice and we all told her don’t sleep with this other man, see how things go with the first guy before you pick who you want. Did she listen? No, she slept with the guy, and when she told the first guy he didn’t want her anymore. Like she really feels her only redeeming qualities are that she’s skinny and that she has sex. I mean, I may be biased because we did not end on good terms, but at one point I did care about her as a friend and tried to not only steer her in the right direction, but also to lead by example. And like I said if people are unwilling to be proctive in their own lives and develop themselves in the proper way to get what they want, there’s not a lot anyone else can do. She doesn’t really had any direction in her life. She joined the Navy because my friend plans to join (she had to lose weight first to meet regulation) and basically was going to follow my friend into the service. She made it through bootcamp but hasn’t gone any further than that. I really don’t know what she’s talk to a man about other than partying and sex 😡
@VintageNarcissa that’s interesting. Most (say 90%) of the women / know in IR are slender. Seriously.
@KingsDaughter @VintageNarcissa To the majority of white men fat/overweight = ugly. It doesn’t matter if the woman in question actually has a pretty face.
@VintageNarcissa That whole thing was excellent.
@VintageNarcissa Amen! However, I remember saying something similar (“womben who are overweight need to lose weight for themselves, not to attract men”) and folks got a lil pissy with me.
I’m sorry, but losing weight just to get a man is not going to land you in a good place.
Physical appearance seems to me like the most transitory of criterion with which to make a selection of a mate. Over time, hardly anyone maintains their youthful good looks. Dating or marrying based solely on whether or not someone is handsome or pretty seems shallow an immature to me. High school kids do that. There has to be more there than just another pretty face.
There is no denying that physical appearance can play a factor in the initial attraction, but it is only one factor, as others here have wisely noted. Drop dead gorgeous men know they are just that, and, of course, use that to their advantage, just as a similarly-blessed woman would do. Average guys, or less-than-Adonis men have just as much to offer a woman as Mr. Studly. I’d recommend giving them a second look.
After many years of marriage, Mr. Studly may very well be bald, hard-of-hearing and have dentures. How important will his appearance be to you then? When you love someone, you see them in a very idealized way. Your love for them colors your vision of them. As the years go by, you love them more and more for their fidelity, loyalty strength of character and the fact that you were there for each other through thick and thin. THAT’S a good reason to love someone, IMHO.
@MixedUpInVegas WELL SAID!!!
I have learned that women judge our own beauty much more harshly than men do. Being attractive to the opposite sex is more a factor of how you present yourself than your actual physical features. Look your best, wear a smile, focus on being friendly with people and someone will notice you.
The most important thing in life is to play your cards right.
@Joyce345 “I have learned that women judge our own beauty much more harshly than men do”
Exactly. I’ve had quite a few conversations with guys, and though they notice your overall physique (body shape and certain “assets”), many really don’t care about your stretch marks, a bit of tummy fat, small love handles, or those dimples in your booty :-P. . Sure, they want someone they are attracted to, but for most guys, being attractive has little to do with looking like a supermodel. When it comes to women they would actually make their girlfriend or wife , they find a combination of things sexy. I’m not sure if we give guys enough credit. They may be simple, but I’m not sure if they’re THAT simple (I know some are though).
Take it from someone who knows, losing weight will not automatically make you attractive. Confidence can cover a mulitiude of sins. Without confidence, you can be phyiscally hot, and still be alone.
I have recently admitted to myself that not only am I introverted, that I’m also painfully shy. I have lost lots of weight and I’m still shy. I have very little confidence in myself. I look great, but that means very little. I can look sexy, but it does no good if I stay in my house.
Confidence is everything.
@ChristieRJohnson I would agree with that. I have dealt with self-esteem issues that I am just coming out of in the past couple of years. Almost no men were attracted to me for the longest time despite being smallish…inner confidence really matters a lot more than we may give credence to.
@ChristieRJohnson “I have recently admitted to myself that not only am I introverted, that I’m also painfully shy. I have lost lots of weight and I’m still shy. I have very little confidence in myself. ”
Christie, one thing to keep in mind. I am sure that you have lots to offer. I used to be painfully shy and I still have something of a self confidence problem. But I have come to realize and emphasize my really good qualities. You can too. Trust me on this.
Well, I point out that Christie Brinkley, who was the icon of hot womanhood as a model and lousy actress, has gone through FIVE marriages, while Jessica Tandy, who was just a good actress, was married to Hume Cronyn for nearly 40 years. Look at all the disastrous Hollywood marriages of super-hot couples. Then look at Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara, still together.
I really think that it’s personality and compatibility that matter, not physical appearance. If you judge your future mate purely by physical appearance, you’re not going to have happy, long-term marriages.
@Kiwiwriter Good point. Look at Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward.
@Kiwiwriter Well, I would say that Jessica Tandy and Hume Cronyn were attractive when they were young and a pretty even match in terms of relative attractiveness.
Now, Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, as Brenda55 mentions below? That was a mismatch in terms of looks. She was attractive, but that man was searingly attractive, he was SMOKIN’ HOT. He really loved her. And she really loved him.
Let’s go to the other side of the coin. Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel? And he cheated on her? Astounding.
@Luna Noire @Kiwiwriter I think that’s her point…look at how “hot” Brinkley supposedly is (if that’s your aesthetic) and it has not meant that she’s been in successful relationships. Sure, I’m sure lots of men have offered and fawned over her, but she’s been in multiple failed marriages…with some guys whose looks can’t even compare to hers.
@Zindzi_Zenani @Luna Noire That is exactly what I mean, Zindzi_Zenani. Christie Brinkley, by most definitions, is still hot at age 55, and was obviously hotter when younger. She has gone through five failed marriages. One of them had a wedding ceremony on the ski slope where the couple was injured in an accident. The emergency responders who saved the pair were the guests of honor, and the highlight of the wedding was Christie ripping open the pregnancy test result that sped up the marriage and announce to everyone, “It’s a boy!” That marriage lasted until the husband went bankrupt. Her latest husband cheated on her with, as expected, the baby-sitter. She then admitted that she had “marriage and dependency issues.”
So think about this shallowness and tackiness. My point about Hume and Jessica is more that they stayed together until death did them part, even doing plays and movies together late in life. For awhile, the only way a movie-maker or theatrical producer could get one was to hire the other as well, which is how attached they were to each other. By this time, neither were smokin’ hot, but their love transcended that.
I am always astonished and amused when I hear about the latest husband cheating on a hottie wife. It just shows to me the shallowness of the relationship.I’m stunned that Arnold Schwarzenegger concealed his illegitimate son from his wife…for 10 years. I can’t conceal the purchase of a book on E-bay from my wife for 10 minutes! Tiger Woods leaving his cell phone and all his phone numbers lying around…did he think he could get away with it? Even Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky…if some intern came on to me, I’d be demanding the name of her supervisor and that supervisor’s supervisor, and have both of them in my office within 20 minutes, and all three would be cleaning out their desks after the meeting. It just goes on an on and on…name a couple. Whitney and Bobby Brown. Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore. Tom Cruise has gone through three wives. Vanessa Williams has been through three husbands.
I’ve been married 17 years…yes, I joke about wanting to get it on with Rae Dawn Chong, Taraji P. Henson (she is really old enough to have a son in university?), Vivica A. Fox, Gabrielle Union, or Kerry Washington.
However, there is absolutely no way I could make a move or receive a move on any woman today. Occasionally I meet a single girl who is attractive and we get along, but I always bring up my wife and daughter early in the conversation to send the message, “Sorry, my dear, I’m taken.” Or I make my standard joke, “If I hadn’t been happily married for 17 years, I’d be asking you out to dinner/out for a drink/for your phone number. But since that’s all behind me now, all I can say is: if your boyfriend isn’t treating you like a goddess, send him to me and I’ll give him a lecture he’ll never forget.” And they crack up.
And that’s as far as it and I go. I could no more cheat on my wife than I could flap my arms and fly to the moon.
Getting a little off-topic, I know, but I’m just irritated with the Western beauty industry, which sends the message to women that you have to be able to hide behind a pencil, dress like a slut, and be shallow as the wading pool at the JFK Recreation Center to land a decent guy, and the only determinant that a guy is decent is the tone of his muscles, shape of his jaw, and size of his wallet. Horse manure.
Ladies, just remember…that shy guy in your political science class who DOESN’T have a cool car just might make a pretty decent boyfriend and a loyal, hard-working husband. And that girl in your office who wears the low-cut blouse and shows off the size 34s is probably NOT going to wind up with a guy who sees anything good about her besides how she looks next to him at the big party.
Find a guy who will leave the toilet seat down, clean up the dog poop in the backyard, hold and keep a job that pays the bills, pays attention to your kids, and treats you with the respect he deserves. He probably won’t look like Daniel Sunjata or Brad Pitt, but he’ll probably have a lot of redeeming features
@Kiwiwriter @Zindzi_Zenani @Luna Noire Yeah, the problem is women biologically want the alpha dog and not the nice beta guys who will treat them right. I know many women who would suggest you are asking them to lower their standards and men are never asked to do that. They are expected to chase after the beauty queen. Nobody ever says that shy girl in the glasses who’s a little chubby and has no fashion sense is the one you should want.
@Luna Noire @Kiwiwriter Money and power trumps looks in a man every time. A woman can have all the money and power in the world and her looks and age will still matter.
It’s misleading to tell fat/”big”/”curvy” women to say there isn’t someone out there for them. Because it’s a big world with a lot of men in it, and there’s a man somewhere that wants what these women have.
But, I think it also is misleading and does these women a disservice to keep telling them that all they need is confidence and their dating concerns will disappear. If you’re 5’4′ and 190 lbs, you can have oodles of confidence and still not turn too many heads. You know? You can spend a lot of money on nice clothes, on your ‘do, be confident, etc. and not get too many dates, because, let’s face it, most guys will enjoy talking to you, but not want to do anything else with you. Because that is too much weight for most men.
Is that all men? Of course not, that’s just crazy talk. But weighing that much at that height really reduces the percentage of men that are going to have long-term interest in you. You’re going to be shopping in a store where the shelves are a little bare.
Even if you’re confident.
Let’s not willfully distort the reality of the situation here.
@Luna Noire you said, “Let’s not willfully distort the reality of the situation here.
Whose reality are you speaking of? There are several billion people on this planet. Are you speaking of what Cosomo, Glamour, Vogue, reality tv, Western Culture? etc. is saying is acceptable? It is a very dangerous thing to pass of our personal experiences and views as truth when it is not. As I have said so many times in so many posts none of us NONE can speak for every single man on the planet, much less this country.
You also said “But weighing that much at that height really reduces the percentage of men that are going to have long-term interest in you.” Again I ask SAYS WHO??? Have you gotten a unanimous vote from every man on this view? I would love to see that list. This is not to say a woman should not take care of herself and to be her healthiest but do not assume a woman at 5’4 and 190 is a bowling ball. yes some women are obese calling themselves curvy, but also remember that in the fashion industry a woman at a size 12 is considered “plus size”. Just like men have different preferences, woman carry their weight differently. When i was in fashion school, one of my teachers gave us a handout of seven women all a size 10 but they were different heights and carried their weight in different places which means if we were to make each of them an outfit we would have to adjust our master pattern seven times to fit each of them correctly. Here is a 350 pound woman and I ask you would consider her fat??http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61345.
As far as your comment of the shelves being bare, All any quality woman needs is ONE off that shelf. ONE.
As far as the comment of alludo
Yup. the game begins. Point out the exceptions, or all the possible exceptions to the generalization that’s true. Somehow, this makes the truth suspect in the minds of the people that rush to the fray with these rejoinders.
No one’s fat; everyone’s perfect just the way they are, these fat women just need confidence and nice clothes, I get it. You just keep telling them that, and when they wail that they still can’t get the kind of guy they want, just look at them and shrug your shoulders, right?
All this feel-good theatre is not going to help women that, let’s face it, just need to lose some weight. Tough love, maybe, but sometimes that’s the best kind of love.
@Luna Noire Luna I have no beef with what you are saying. I am fat. I was a fat teen, a fat twenty, thirty and forty something. I did not marry until my late forties.
Do I think that my weight may have been a factor? Sure do.
My husband is one of this guys who likes a woman with a little meat on her bones. You cannot deny that they are out there….but……. they are the exception and not the rule. That is a fact.
This is really all about improving your odds in the dating market. If you as a man or woman look closer the what the established norms for appereance are you will have an easier time of it. That is the truth. Be too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, too what ever you are going to have to make adjustments to accomedate. That is just being realistic. If you are fat and are waiting for the world to change it’s attitudes about excess weight keep waiting. It is not going to happen. So no I do not think that the truth is suspect.
@DUsher @Luna Noire Amen! That appearance-centered way of dating is NOT my reality and thin ain’t in with everyone. And yes, all you need is ONE guy. I don’t need the pick of the litter; just the one dude who’s right for me.
As for misleading womben by telling them that all they need is a great personality (and to be a great person) to get a man…I don’t find that misleading at all. There are PLENTY of womben who fit the Western standard of beauty who might get all the dates in the world, but can never seem to be in a relationship. Looking good is surely not all it takes to “get a man.” C’mon now people.
And the conversation is now veering towards the Kafkaesque. Why put up with reality when you can just invent your own?
Hey, you know what I don’t acccept? Gravity. It just doesn’t fit with my reality.
Ladies, thanks for the memories.
@Luna Noire In India they have Monsoon Storms every year. I do not experience those out here in California. So if we adopt your view on this, that means that the East Indians should not prepare their homes for these annual storms because that is not our reality due to the fact we don”t experience those In the United States.
This has nothing to do with”creating” our own reality, this has to do with the fact that your theory is flawed and you seem to be annoyed that not everyone is drinking the kool-aid. Based on your view of this that means the women who are plus sized/heavy who are in happy stable marriages/relationships are an anomaly they should separate or divorce their men because it goes against what you believe about it.
People are individuals,they are attracted to different things and different people. What may appeal to one person may not appeal to another As I aforementioned in a previous comment my brother’s friend a skinny guy loves heavy women and his wife is a size 24 and he is in love with his wife but based on what your reality dictates, he should not be, she needs to lose 100 pounds THEN he should desire her, right? Sorry there are multitudes of women out there who are dis-proving your theory and finding quality mates on those so called barely stocked shelves.
I will say this and will leave it be, Any woman should be the best she can be on her end in looks, confidence,etc. the men I have encountered seem to be attracted to women who are confident and take good care of themselves and that does not mean she is a size 6. Also, as people get older, sometimes things change. The 20 year- old guy who wanted J-LO in his 30 and 40’s may want a woman who is still attractive to him, but her character, personality, compatibility etc. It depends on the individual. And to go back to your point of sarcasm people creating their own reality to a certain degree that may be true come to think of it, every man and woman has their own view on who they find attractive away from the magazines, television, and the westernized Barbie and Ken brainwashing. the smart ones don’t let someone else tell them what is attractive to them, they know for themselves.
@DUsher @Luna Noire
“Also, as people get older, sometimes things change.”
You make a lot of really good points in your posts espically this one.
Qualities that mattered when you are younger don’t as we age.
That 36-24-36 measurnent that guys want at twenty is not all that important at 50. The guy is now soft around the middle himself and balding and the emotional part of the relationship with a woman become more important as opposed to the sexual. That has been my experence.
@Zindzi_Zenani @Luna Noire Zindizi right on, I have seen plenty of gorgeous women who have alot of dates but no stable relationships. Looking good is part of it, nothing wrong with being attractive at all, but I have met some FINE guys, who after you got past the looks, were grade A JERKS! Naomi Campbell is beautiful but has a horrible temper! So Looks are not enough. I heard one guy state, “I don’t care how beautiful she is, some other guy is tired of her crap” Look alone do not cut it.
@Brenda55 @Luna Noire Thank you Brenda for the compliment.
@Zindzi_Zenani @DUsher @Luna Noire We need to be careful and distinguish between attracting attention, getting a man and keeping a man. Three different things. If you want to increase your odds of finding a man you need to cast a wide net and play the odds. Period. End of story. Being the best physical specimen possible will enable you to attract enough attention and thereby increase your choices. From there you may proceed to getting a man and if it doesn’t work out, you will be able to toss that fool aside and attract another more expeditiously. Now, obviously if you want to keep a man, you will need more than your physical charms.
@Brenda55 @DUsher @Luna Noire I disagree. Ladies should do everything humanly possible to keep their shape as they age and it is possible. He may get squishy, but you never should. Because trust that depending on his resources he will trade you in for a younger, hotter model. Besides, overweight especially in your middle age and as a black person is a prescription for health issues like diabetes and high blood pressure. Seen it happen to too many folks in my family.
@Luna Noire
Reality:
I’m 5’4″ and 190lbs, and I was passed over for girls who were SIGNIFICANTLY larger than me at my height. They dated and married those normal, regular everyday guys that I dated. They married these girls!!!
Compatibility is more important than weight. Besides, all there needs to be is ONE GUY that falls for that “heavier” confident, smart and beautiful girl… So the odds are still good for them.
Also 190lbs looks different on different people, so be careful when using numbers. It’s much easier to use pictures.
@Luna Noire You definitely want to play the odds and increase your chances. Agreed.
“It’s misleading to tell fat/”big”/”curvy” women to say there isn’t someone out there for them. Because it’s a big world with a lot of men in it, and there’s a man somewhere that wants what these women have.”
I agree with this because while I can not speak for all men and because some men do want women of “Barbie proportions”, I adore nice curves on a woman and have no problem with someone who is full figured and there are other men who do as well. Now, I will grant that you have to get to the point of the meet, of the conversation so the other qualities have a chance to be evaluated as well because size is not that big a deal to us. People… MOST people… well, we are visual and we are going to check out the “idyllic” targets that are supposedly more pleasing to the eye first. Now does that mean that if you do not fit that supposed mold you do not have a chance of even being looked over “first”. No. You can be pretty. You can be inviting with a sweet smile…. sparkling eyes….. you can draw that interest first…
I’m a plus size woman size 16 down from a 22, I realize that a great deal of men like smaller women. I also realize that many men are what one of my male friends calls visually impatient. They want the sexy body and pretty face but can’t wait to find out what else is attached to it. Then they realize she may be a golddigger, mean, or just plain dumb. Not saying all fine women are just that sometimes a guy can chase the superficial then realize there is nothing else there. I am losing weight now b/c I am so tired of hearing you are so funny, smart, pretty blah blah blah. Talk with me then tell me some line about how they aren’t ready for a relationship then date the smaller woman only weeks later. Only to try and come back in a few months when they realize he and the other woman have nothing in common. I’m pretty sick of that scenario. So I am taking control of my life and weight. I’ve lost some weight already and I can tell the difference in the type of men I’m attracting. I’ll see how it goes. 🙂
Check this out http://twitpic.com/aeemuv
and this
http://ca.askmen.com/daily/austin/49_fashion_style.html
Okay, so didn’t listen to the video cause it wasn’t working when I tried but wanted to throw my hat in the ring. Depending on how big you are the weight could very well be an issue. Men like slimmer women generally speaking. The real question is, do you like your weight? Don’t worry too much about what men are thinking? Are you feeling good about your body image or do you think that you could stand to lose a few or tone up? For me, I want to lose weight. I’ve battled the bulge since forever and now I have a weird relationship with my weight. Even when I was thin my self esteem was so low that I didn’t date any good guys for years. I gained close to 60 pounds when i went away to college and have been yo-yo-ing between 160-190 for the past two years. I want to lose the weight because I do, not to please some man. The funny thing is, I’m not much heavier than i was a few years ago and there weren’t nearly as many prospects back then as now. But now my style has changed, I’m more outgoing, have more confidence and I swear,men have been coming out of nowhere trying to get at me.
Also, I do think that being more slim will get more men to approach you but that doesn’t mean the caliber will be better. For example, I know a slim blonde woman who is dating a married man.It’s not like her being a size 6 is getting her top notch guys. I know others who don’t have any real prospects or were single for years before getting in a relationship. Being slim ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.
@nieshasdavis “Also, I do think that being more slim will get more men to approach you but that doesn’t mean the caliber will be better. For example, I know a slim blonde woman who is dating a married man.It’s not like her being a size 6 is getting her top notch guys.”
Exactly. My mom has a friend who is a thin Asian woman. She is very sweet, but she has no confidence. She also worries too much and is a pushover. She is divorced from a borderline racist wm and she is now messing with a married man who treats her like crap as well. Looks can get you somewhere (you can’t deny that!), but they won’t get you everywhere. Self esteem and personality will take you far, too.
I also think that when you look a certain way or get a lot of attention, you have to “vet” (this word is still funny to me for some reason) even harder..because a lot of guys may just want you for looks or arm (bed) candy…I’ve been on both sides (considered pretty and unattractive), depending on who’s judging. I’ve talked to guys who didn’t care about my feelings, thoughts, personality, or goals..but only wanted to discuss how good I look..believe it or not, that can be hurtful…,
In other instances guys are more respectful towards women who they consider to be a catch. If they think a woman is unattractive, they may assume she has low self esteem and just try to use her…I’ve had this happen to me while going through one of my ugly duckling phases. Guys would talk to me any kind of way assuming I’d be happy to get any little bit of attention…especially since I was bigger than a couple of my friends..guess either way you gotta watch out.
It’s so true that men are generally attracted to confidence and a positive, open disposition. A women who is comfortable in her own skin, no matter its size. One can be a size 0 or a size 30…if she is a miserable, whiny, needy so-and-so they will run from her as fast as their legs can carry them. Hell, you would run for yourself in that state if it was physically possible. So turn your light on, look and feel good to yourself, and many moths will be drawn in.
I’m not a plus-sized woman, and even so, I am well aware that I don’t fit everyone’s standard of beauty. I see bigger and very big women with men day in and day out…the fact is that if being overweight was a factor in getting a mate, someone forgot to let millions of people know they aren’t supposed to be in a relationship with someone who finds them attractive.
Everyone has physical flaws if one takes a critical look, even Ryan Gosling. Most men are simply not as hard on the flaws a woman’s body. The weirdest thing of all, to me, is that they often like the very body part we can’t stand or hardly think is attractive on us. Go figure.
@Statuesque I agree, perceptions of beauty are different for everyone. For instance, I don’t find Ryan Gosling remotely sexy or handsome but my BFF swoons every time he appears on the screen.
Weight won’t definitely keep you out of the interracial dating game, but it is a significant factor. Also, when you’re dating you want as much edge as possible, and less negatives. So if you’re overweight, you might want to optimize your chances by losing a little weight.
I’ve been at both ends of the spectrum so I will add that I have had better success with interracial dating as a slimmer, toned woman versus as a thicker, jiggly woman. Like others have mentioned, I think age plays a role because I am in my 20s and date guys in that age range. With the men I’m interested in, being over a size 4/6 is certainly not going to help you, and unless you’re really tall a double digit size is just a no. You wouldn’t even know it but you’re not being considered at all; they simply won’t notice you. Just like we have standards for the men we like, they have an idea of the type of woman they’d like to date, introduce to their parents, and marry, and she isn’t a plus-size woman.
However, it has not been the end all, be all. Weight is a factor, but is not THE factor that determines if you will be successful in dating or not. Ultimately, weight may allow you to be a contender but it won’t ensure you win the battle.
Another thing is that you should do it for yourself — I lost weight because I’m into fashion and I couldn’t comfortably wear the clothes I wanted at my previous size. Then it became about being the fittest me I could be, and that reflects on my attitude and interests, which also helps.
@AleeL Agreed. I lost 34 pounds, going from a size 12 to a size 4. I am in my thirties and found guys my age to behave the same way. I got the odd nod as a size 8, but it’s really in becoming a size 6 that I noticed that I was being noticed. Men who I had known and didn’t consider me in a romantic sense began to do so.
“You wouldn’t even know it but you’re not being considered at all; they simply won’t notice you. ”
True. Men just don’t notice you if you’re not attractive to them. Who wants to be invisible?
“I lost weight because I’m into fashion and I couldn’t comfortably wear the clothes I wanted at my previous size. Then it became about being the fittest me I could be, and that reflects on my attitude and interests, which also helps.”
Moi aussi. At first, I wanted to lose the weight to feel better about myself. Now that I do, I am more interested in improving my fitness, instead of losing more weight. A man (yes, he was white) asked me to go and play tennis with him the other day, and even though I have never played, I felt comfortable knowing that I could keep up, physically. Knowing that your body is up for the challenge gives you courage and confidence.
Another benefit of being physically well-tuned is that people afford you a certain level of respect when they know that you take time to take care of your body. In losing weight, I also added a lot of muscle and am quite toned and it is amazing how much deference I am afforded by both people I know and from strangers.
@edenifill @AleeL
Congrats on your weight loss!
I also started to notice attention at size 6, then lots more at 4 (now 2-4). 4/6 must be the magic size, lol!
Isn’t it great how losing weight encourages you to be more fit as well? So it’s like a whole mind and body transformation.
I find that as men age the less they care, I am 21 5’10 155-160lbs and a size 8-10, I used to weight 125 before a depression spell/just plain laziness set in my goal is now 125-135 . I am losing weight to feel better about me, but I can’t help but notice that men my age just don’t approach me as much as they used to, especially younger white men. older men 35+ don’t seem to mind as much. I have also noticed that as my weight decreases the more younger men seem interested(my heaviest was 175lbs in march, not a good place as I was bingeing on schlotskys, papa johns, sbarro, qdoba and junk food).
There are however a subset of older men that do care as much as younger men do, some of them are health nuts who at 50 pride themselves in their ability to mantain a six pack , the others are the 50 year old frat boys who never stopped going to college parties, they may not live on campus, go to school,are married and have a career not related to the college, but for some reason they keep attending college parties.
@thecrazyartist 50 yr old frat boys? That’s a scary image lol
@thecrazyartist Fuller figure on a woman usually equates to older and/or matronly. Congratulations on getting smaller. I’m the same size as you (8/10) but shorter and much older. At 21 I was 115 lbs. Lupus drugs changed all that for me and I’ve had years of going up and down in weight. At my heaviest a lot of older men came on to me. I think it’s media and more black women coming to the fore who are slender and guys your age are more influenced by that. I’m 39.
I’d say “maybe” to that question.
Most guys are firstly interested in a woman based on her looks (straight from the horse’s mouth btw) and hey, weight plays a big part in that, let’s be realistic. Women aren’t all that different when it comes to being attracted firstly based on looks.
Personally,I’m not keen on fat guys. A couple of pounds over wouldn’t be bad but I generally like guys who take care of themselves and try to stay fit because I look after myself. It has a lot to do with compatibility. Similarly, for example I don’t drink or smoke and i don’t want someone who does. That sort of compromise I can’t make.
YES, DAMMIT BLACK WOMEN YES! THE DATING GAME PERIOD – NO MATTER THE RACE IN THE USA!
Yes, you look DAMN GOOD with a little… to a lot more weight than others with clothing, but these guys are thinking about what’s going on underneath and its not that they will ever get the “opportunity”, but it’s like an old Warner Brothers cartoon when you see Bugs Bunny morph into a turkey. You will morph into what the guy thinks is going on underneath which will determine the interest/disinterest.
Look, I, for the life of me, cannot understand, how Black women do not see that, as a group, showing our true athleticism (these boys didn’t get their musculature just from their fathers), our warrior bodies, our posture and grace – having those things reflected through a distinctly toned and capable body is our ticket to greater equality in this country (given our already illustrated movements towards professional, spiritual and academic excellence). OUR BODIES CANNOT BE IGNORED IN OUR BATTLE FOR EQUALITY. It is our bodies that are used to discredit our being no matter the shade (shade will determine how forgiving others will be of ones girth). Forget “attitudes”. THAT IS WHY WE ARE AT OUR MOST VULNERABLE WHEN WE ARE ENDLESSLY PORTRAYED AS OBESE. We are not protected and left to fend for ourselves. If we can overcome this NEW-FOUND acceptance of obesity by BLACK WOMEN (because my sisters were NOT this big only 15 years ago in cosmopolitan areas), we will be able to garner the support of those who influence imagery in America and each other. Honestly, this is the final piece for Black women to accept in order for us to move forward/BATTLE towards an equal female society. The increase in obesity in Black women has everything to do with depression and income disparities. THAT is not a trait of Black womanhood. That is a trait of socio-economics and an unequal society that trends towards affecting minority communities more than others (low quality food, education, unsafe places to walk, immobility). We must overcome these barriers by taking care of not only minds and spirits, but our bodies as well. Our bodies that, when obese, shows the tell-tale signs of abuse (food or movement atrophy) or illness and disease (thyroid, etc…).
If you have the other pieces in place (education, spirit/kindness, etc…), taking care of your body, your temple, not for a man, but for G_d is sure to bring you closer to the right people, friends and relationships no matter the race or background. It is just not right for us to settle for less.
HI ladies, one thing about being my age (54) is that I have seen a lot and I can tell you that there is an unending variety of what men find sexy. I like short women, tall women, Asian women, white women, Latinas (I’ll stop now or the list will grow off the page). I also like women who look like they are helpless and vulnerable and women who can kick the bad guy’s butt. I am attracted to women from a lower social class who appreciate my success and women who are more successful than me. You get the idea. I know several guys who only like very large ladies. I know some who can’t date a woman taller than them. Yes, slender is the style these days but it’s only a style.
Have not yet listened to the video, did read the article.
My answer to the stated question is a qualified “yes”.
People who can be clumped together in a group — for whatever reason — still are going to have individual preferences, even though conditioning of one sort or another may have been undergone by most of all of the group and some or most of the “training” “takes lesser or greater effect” on most or all of the group. People can be “trained” and yet some will “follow their own way”. Others may outgrow the training due to experiences or their conscience coming alive and them responding to it, etc., etc.,…Not everyone does; we all know that. And, a personal preference one would have expressed naturally may have been in place before any training.
Best not to judge too harshly.
All that said, I find that “white” guys (so many I’ve been around do the following that I think it is a long handed down cultural thing) of all ages take much notice of a slim figure and sharp notice of a very slim but curvy — i.e., ample breasts, firm and small — but with rounded though not extreme curve to the — derriere, tiny–even “relatively” small (or at least a “nice” indentation of the ) waist gets extra points, flat tummy (super bonus points–but I think that’s for everybody!) and long hair ( and you’ve “got it made”. “Good legs” seem to be something of a particular focus for many and can override a lot…have an appreciation all their own…something…
I’ve also noticed though a lot of them (still) profess (in certain circles) the ‘grand appreciation’ of blue eyed blonds (bleached or dyed or extensions or however–and it seems this is fading because it’s not so important to have that kind of physical obeisance to the powers-that-were in the workplace and culture) or black hair and blue eyes –exotic, but still “white”– there is quite a draw toward a woman of “different background”, especially with relatively darker skin tone than the man in question, who still embodies the physical ideal described above. There is also a set of personality traits which seem to be associated–in their minds–with the “type” of woman whom they would feel psychologically comfortable, so they can have the “flavor” of differences (in this instance–the surface of outward appearance. Surface surface appearance! LOL) but the core is still the same (which, in some ways ironically, goes to show that people are the same!)
Some want (some, or a lot of) what they associate with a “white” woman in an “other than white” body.
Some don’t like “white” women (they know their “machinations” too well, from up close and personal, first hand experience, or simply aren’t attracted to them — no sexual or other spark, like brother and sister.
Some have been ruined by some of their culture’s training about “white” women being better and needing their old culture’s crazy definition of the ultimate in respect at all times, etc., and feel they can’t have a normal, engaging, “fun” relationship with them.
See all of it down here in the South all the time. Though you have to be careful it’s not some weird racial thing that can have many permutations….That said, having lived through a lot of racial awfulness in the romantic/sexual/relationship arena, some people are unbelievably grounded and clear about the truth of human transcendance of their labels and the understanding that labels are just that…some people revel in the cultural differences and others acknowledge yet don’t give them much importance…they (whatever their “background”} just take the person as is when the one they love–and who loves them–shows up…
Personal experience is that “black” people, both men and women, young and older, like my hair (or at least have something to say about it!)–which is extremely long.
“Black” men, again both younger and older, seem to–and some have said to my face (I didn’t ask!) they–like a “thick” or “thicker” woman. If I am dressed in slim fitting or “cool” clothes, my figure, or “taste”–shows a bit and I think it is more the apparent body confidence as well as a general appreciation that is noted more than feeling they have seen their “ideal”.
There is still the “color” consciousness that lingers — “lighter” is “stuck up”–some men have said that is why I’ve rejected their advances.
There is also the resentful acceptance of the “white man’s” classification of people as “black-only” even if you have a recently varied background and have lived and moved among many aspects of those cultures–which I have–and a frustrated, almost angry (if not angry!) confusion when you don’t automatically classify yourself as “black”. (Not being accepted/embraced by “black” people may have had something to do with it! I’m just sayin’.)
These men, who don’t want me, also don’t want me to happily engage men of other “races” or “age groups”. They want me to be a nun and not somehow shame them–or myself.
If a “black” man, young or older, has a few minutes conversation with me, they notice how quiet, engaging, respectful, thoughtful, etc., I am/behave, and I must say, fewer than before are shocked into incomprehension, shunning me for it, or perversely acting/saying that I should be/act more like a “black” woman–what?
“Black” women. Younger show me how much they have absorbed the past when they talk about my hair being “good” or some such (regardless of quality of formal education received). A real shocker. (I have been told more than once that their is “another person with hair thought to be as long or longer than mine” and I once replied I wasn’t interested–it’s not a contest!) Though some are embracing “natural” styles–for a period, at least. There is also a “reserve” or “hesitation” in judging my body–which I think is a good thing–but I think it has a lot to do with being overwhelmed by my hair! Older women without reservation like my “natural” hair (and say they want to, or are, going that way) and say they were “small” (in body size/weight) at one time and wish they still were. My super flat stomach is a source of awe (to “white” women of all ages, too).
My manner puts “black” people off for the most part, and it is not because I am rude, abrupt, stuck up or anything else like that. It seems to be changing a little bit, though. They just don’t like me, or associate how I am with their insecurities or incorrect judgements, which forces me into “other” realms–what, am I supposed to sit at home and die out because you’ve no place for me?
Hey Mar, I thought the topic was about swirling?
I had a lot of “white” male interest–for whatever reasons—then I lost 7 pounds. It sky-rocketed at that point, and it became bolder and almost overwhelming with even younger, very sexy older, and “connected” types–younger and older– being more obvious that they were interested by letting their appreciation/interest (we’re past their “assessment” by now) linger as they await my cue to move in. Often, over many encounters…(just being in the same place qualifies because of the intensity).
Some have unresolved issues/problems…make assumptions…they learn I respect myself and drop away or into the background, still mesmerized, and now transfixed. Some don’t seem to know/connect with that they are romantically/physically/attracted to me but hone in and stay near, repeatedly…I could go on and on and may come back to this site to post more but I am tired and have to go…also want to listen to the video…
I would love to see more on this topic. Especially if you could go into weight loss surgery.
I am a bigger woman. I am 28 years old and I am SO frustrated.
I go out to eat and my friends comment on how little I eat. I go to the gym at least 3 times a week for about 2 hours.
I count calories and I try to eat salads and I even cut those in half.
Both of my parents are overweight. Even morbidly obese, but I don’t want to excuse just genetics.
I just feel hopeless. I go and I weigh myself and I gain weight. I know that as a black woman, that if I am even going to have the smallest hope, I need to lose weight. And even with personal trainers and calorie counting, it doesn’t seem like it is going to happen.
So, I would love to see more of the weight loss surgery options. I will have to wait, as I am a full time graduate student and money is something out of reach right now, but I must set my sights on the future. I am that much closer to 30 and being alone.
Hi Serita, try this site…http://blackgirlsguidetoweightloss.com/. Also, have you done an honest inventory of how many calories you take in per day?
@Christelyn Thank you for posting the website. I will take a look at it.
I do count my calories, and I believe it is accurate. I use the “Lose It” app for the iPhone. It tells me that if I can keep my calories under 1,999 a day, I can lose a pound and a half in a week. (1,999 seems like a lot to me, but that is the number that it gave me according to my current body weight. I usually end up being 500 calories under a day!)
@Serita Okay well then there’s something not right there. If you’re working out three times a week and you’re at or under 2,000 calories per day, I think you might need to see a doctor.
@Serita @Christelyn You have to EAT for your body to burn calories. If you eat too few – your body goes into starvation mode and your metabolism slows down to conserve the energy (fat ) you have because your body has gotten used to being starved. You have to eat more often each day. Eat 5-6 small healthy meals EVERYDAY and your body will begin to burn calories. It is the schedule your body is on that is causing you to not lose weight. You have to trick your metabolism into working again. Remember when you were a kid- you ate all day and lost weight all day= plus you were busy doing something until you were tired… we get older – more sitting in one place (work and/or school) and the a schedule to eat by – breakfast lunch and dinner and a snack. Not good for our body. Try the small meal (snack) 5-6 times a day and try not to eat too late.
@Serita The site that Chris is a very good one. YOu also may want to try recording what you eat on this site for a few days
http://www.myfitnesspal.com
It is free and is one of the easist tracking tools to use on the net.
You may think that you are not eating a lot, but as I found what I was eating had a lot of calories in it and that I was consuming way more calories than I needed. That was the problem and I had to change what I ate and how I cooked it.
You also may what to look into portion control. You may not think that the portion is large but you would be surprised. There are also a lot of videos on Youtube about this that are worth looking at.
@Brenda55 Thank you for the “heads up”. I will check out and see how myfitnesspal differs from “Lose It” and I will also look at YouTube, videos.
@Serita
Hey Serita! Please get a full physical and blood work. Make sure they check your thyroid. That may be the problem. My mother had to get hers removed and has lost weight without trying. I hope things work out for you 🙂
@Serita Maybe you should try a different approach to weight loss. I tried EVERYTHING and was getting no where, fast. Then, I started the Atkins Diet and lost 120 pounds. I don’t count calories, I count carbs and sugar. That’s where my weight was coming from: bread, pasta, flour, sugar. I replaced empty carbs with carbs found in fruits and vegetables and the weight melted away. It’s something that you have to commit to for good, though. Once you stop watching the carbs, the weight will come back.
@Serita Hi Serita, Check out The Power of your Metabolism.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Your-Metabolism-Frank-Suarez/dp/0978843754/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363135952&sr=1-1&keywords=power+of+metabolism
This is a awesome book with great insight. I know you will find it helpful.
@Serita
It needs to be said: your perspective is damn foolish. “I go and I weigh myself and I gain weight. I know that as a black woman, that if I am even going to have the smallest hope, I need to lose weight.” Gym–>builds muscle–>muscle weighs more than fat–> perceived weight gain. The sensible thing is to eat BETTER not less. Clearly your salads aren’t working for you so why don’t you actually try to be healthy? I’m a thick girl, I will always be a thick girl. My English boyfriend loves it and you kind of don’t get whiter than that. So that idea is shot. Judging by the number of men (all white/non black) that still approach me regularly, as petite and curvy as I am, prove you don’t need a flat tummy and small butt to be attractive.
You need to work out your body image issues first. Is your goal to be thin or to be healthy? Is your goal to be in any relationship or to be in a good place. If you want to be thin stop eating. If you want to be healthy take a look at your work out and your eating habits. Is your workout effective? Does it promote the building of lean muscle and strength? Are you tracking your weight or your body fat? Get a body fat, body muscle and body water composition scale its a great investment to track progress. When you workout do you give your body recovery time? Is your diet nutritious enough? Does it fulfill your body’s activity requirements? Lettuce is the dumbest thing people try to eat to lose weight. The more you deprive yourself the more your body will fight to retain energy (fat stores). Your body is programmed to survive not to look like an emaciated model. Take better care of it.
I have lost 15lbs to date and kept it off for a year. I have not once counted calories. I even fell of the bandwagon for 5 months. I know the weight has been in fat since I measure my body fat and body muscle once a week. That is despite having adult asthma. I changed my eating habits to a more vegetarian diet with lean (non red) meat. But you know what? Sometimes I want a burger. So I have it. I don’t have one regularly and I don’t beat myself up when I do, I just get back on track. I eat chips and salsa when I want a salty snack and I avoid takeout since I can usually cook better lower cost meals anyway. That’s how I’ve made progress and keep making progress. It has to be a lifestyle change. Both of my sisters are size 2’s on fat days. That’s great for them. I’m built differently. You are too, embrace it.
Go out and meet people. Not in a thirsty way, but in a do what you like and meet people who have the same interests as you way. I met my boyfriend of 2 years pursuing my interests. Life doesn’t begin when you date someone it begins when you wake up happy and do what you enjoy. Also go to quality places and spend your time with quality people. Hanging out is a slutty nightclub might not attract the kind of man you probably want. Besides fitness should be for you and no one else. If a guy only wants you when you lose weight assuming you are not morbidly and dangerously obese (but even then they meet partners too) that’s a big and obvious warning sign about him! Confidence is what attracts people or else no skinny chicks would ever be single. So for Pete’s sake learn to freaking love yourself! ;D
@Serita Wow this sounds really sad. For you to believe that because you are black you need to lose weight more than anyone else needs too says you don’t think highly of yourself. if you are having problems losing weight maybe its not how much you eat, but what you eat. cut out all processed foods, eat 4 servings of fruit a day, if that is not working check your thyroid. Do not use color as an excuse for bettering yourself, better yourself for YOU, meaning the person who you are on the inside. Hopefully you find the way and better yourself.
I’m a beautiful 53 year old BBW. All of my serious relationships have been with white men, which includes my ex-husband. I guess I look approachable. I’ve always been confident and outgoing. I haven’t let my weight limit me or who I date. I’ve always been pursued by attractive successful men. I think it’s more about how you carry yourself and if you show that you love yourself. Do you feel sexy and desirable? If so, it will show. Also, I live in Minnesota, I may be seen as exotic lol.
People are people everybody has been mixing for a long time~<a href=”http://www.healingherbsbyrene.weebly.com”>HHBR Naturals</a>
People are people if they Love you they Love you~We all have been mixing for a Long time~<a href=”http://www.healingherbsbyrene.weebly.com”>HHBR Naturals</a>
Please stop listening to idiots. I know quite a few interracial relationships and the White men did not have a problem with the full figured black lady. Some, just like some black men, prefer the meat on the bones. TELEVISION has tainted our vision of ourselves as beautiful of all sizes and colors. We as a society have been brainwashing ourselves into thinking, our darker skin is less than, out thick kinky hair is unattractive, and our adult sized lips, hips and all other parts are too much or unattractive. But look around- who is dying from tanning to get darker skin? Who is paying big bucks to have larger fuller lips? Who is buying and breeding thicker kinkier hair? Who is risking it all for a larger butt? It makes no sense that if all of that makes me ugly then why are they buying and dying to be ugly? So please know that White does not make him Mr. Right, and Extra does not make you less than. He may be a good man or a bad man (they come in all colors from all countries). If you love you – then you will find a man that will love you – all sizes.
I met my fiance who is white by the way online. We were members of the same gaming group and we were friendly and we would chat all the time and he let me know he was starting to have feelings for me and wanted to me face to face and I have to point out that I was over-weight and he would always encourage me to stick to my weight loss goals and I was insulted at first when he said he wanted to meet me because I thought it was because I was losing the wight and he went off on me lol…He told me to think back to when we first became friends and how he wanted to meet me before that and he knew what I looked liked before the weight started coming off and because of my own hang ups I kept saying no. He told me looks didn’t matter to him because beauty fades and I have shown that I was kind and caring and knew some of the best dirty jokes that he has ever heard. and he wanted something deep and meaningful and he thinks he found it with me. After much back and forth I finally agreed to meet him and I must say he has turned out to be the best thing that has ever happened to me. We as black women are told the to be chubby or thick which ever you want to call it is something to be ashamed of and men will not date, let alone marry a thick girl. After a year of dating long distance and seeing each other twice a month we are getting married. So to quote him any man that can’t look past what’s on the outside to see the beauty on the inside is wasting time.
This is just really stupid! Slim, trim, or healthy is not synonymous with being white. There are fat white women too!! If a white man doesn’t like fat black women, he doesn’t like fat “any” woman … plain and simple. My husband is white and I’m not trim or slim.
I’m “full figured” and my husband is White. My weight gain didn’t happen until recently, but he doesn’t have a problem with how I look. I think that insecurity is mostly the woman’s POV of herself. I’ve decided to give up on the whole idea that White men don’t like Black women because of their hair, size, shape etc. I believe ultimately, it comes down to your attitude.
I prefer my meat dark!
I am not afraid. And I highly encourage not to solely SEEK to swirl, but to open up your options and think outside the box. Why LIMIT yourselves; especially with the epidemic shortage of quality BM?
I just received the “Swirling” book from Amazon & was about to sit down to read it before I stumbled on to this article & YouTube video. Initially, I found it narrow-minded & offensive, especially the observation that plus size celebrities that are proud of their figure EVENTUALLY lose weight; concluding that they were never really happy with themselves to begin with. Not only is that presumptious, but inaccurate. While they loved their body, their health dictated otherwise resulting in the need to drop lbs to live; not that they weren’t happy to begin with. So as I was getting ready to put this book back in the package to return it ASAP, I took another look. I can say that some excellent points were made, but would recommend that you convey them in a less superior; authoritative, demonizing & belittling manner. Not for nothing, but speaking about someone needing to lose weight when you are wearing a tank top sundress in which you obviously need to drop some lbs in the arm area @ the very least really isn’t the move. Besides, I don’t see that extra flesh stopping you from keeping your husband. So, thanks for the education & I hope you accept the one I gave to you. Reading the book now to see what other insights you have in store. BTW, I’m a proud plus size women (Ms. Full-Figured USA 2005) who carries herself with diginity, pride in her appearance, with a carriage of confidence comfortably, is a seasoned RN health care professional & clinician. BTW, my pic was taken last week after coming from the gym which I do 4xs week & notice my features are FAR from distorted! Good day.
@AGWStew Thank you for your purchase of “Swirling.” I will work furiously to get my fat arms under control. 🙂