Sophia A. Nelson: Black Women and the “F-word”

You raise an interesting question--what indeed, DOES it mean to be feminine? I'm not Sophia, so I won't put words in the author's mouth, but I believe femininity is less about wearing stilettos and more about a state of mind. You said, "I feel that I cannot be weak. I CANNOT. I don’t know how to be anything else." A suppose a good place to start is to perhaps explore WHY you feel this way.

Pierre,

Thank you so much for that post. BW need to hear male voices in our defense sometimes b/c we NEVER get it. Thank you for recognizing that we BW are WOMEN like everyone else and deserve to be treated and accepted as such. BW have every right to come together in a safe place and vent, laugh, or whatever we need to do to counteract all the negativity we receive DAILY from within and outside of our communities.

I do hope you stick around as well! :)

LMBO!!!!

can we throw in some Holy water? Or let's just get the job done - Bleach kills everything!

I go for the bleach idea and it stinks bad enough that maybe they'll never come back.

Yeah, I like Neecy too. Always on point.

ITA Liza.

i am always leery of people who looooove to complain about things and people they so call "don't find empowering". I have respect for ANYONE who gives of their time and energy to fight for causes they are passionate about - especially things that have the INTENTION of helping others.

the idea is not that they need NOR want to appeal to every BW and they won't. But the fact they are DOING SOMETHING (whether you agree with their delivery, topics, attitude or platform etc) is what matters.

People who bitch and complain about others blogs and such are usually people who are not doing a damn thing themselves, NOR are they willing to do anything they feel can and will help people.

If most or all of BWE bloggers have issues etc., then strat your own BWE blog that is the anti thesis of what you HATE so much about the others. Don't go on their platforms complaining about them.

cosign

I agree. I am supportive of all the blogs as well. BW are in different stages and the variety of blogs address that. If something is not applicable to me/can't understand/not my taste etc I keep it moving. If there is a need not being addressed then peeps can chip in.

Yep. Those who don't like it, don't read it, lol.

EXACTLY. The door out of "BWE HELL" is just a click away.

I meant to say that I filter out a lot of the advice and other information I read on websites that I feel don't apply to me/I don't relate to . . .

There are many things on BWE/BWIR websites I can't relate to so I just don't try like you Elaine there are so many positive aspects to bw, I don't see some of the obesession with the negative parts. Some I just don't get b/c that's not what I saw in my own life or dating experience. Some of it I have but I've learned and now I move on. I don't feel like suffering the black woman's burden so I've decided not to participate in that. LOL.

Eugenia, I can certainly see why there's an obsession with the negative parts, because if you've lived through bad things like that, it certainly impacts your outlook. Like you, though, I have not experienced some of the issues that crop up over and over again on these BWE blogs. I don't feel smug about that or anything, and I don't try to play down the importance of things that I haven't experienced just because it's not in my life history, but since I can't relate to it, I just shrug it off and keep moving forward towards my goals. I have empathy for the women that had to go through whatever crap is being discussed in a particular moment, and I feel lucky I didn't have to go through the same crap, but I don't want to dwell on it and have it taint my outlook on life in general.

I have more than enough things that have gone wrong along the way in my life's journey; enough so that I will never run out of things to feel bad about so I decide to go that route. I'm with you, I can't pick up everyone else's burdens in addition to mine, in fact, I'm trying to lighten my own load of burdens as it is.

Pam in FL, I can relate. I don't feel smug either and I can't just tell women oh it's been for easy for me to do so and so, so it's gonna be easy for you. Because you're right life comes with all kinds of challenges this just hasn't been one of my mine. In my relationship with my fiancee, I'm trying to have it rein in peace and joy. And since I'm not a person that really worries about strangers and my family is supportive and I get along with his family, I'm thankful we're having a easy time. Because yes, I know many couples face some drama and unfortunately it's from people who should love and support them. But yes, like you I have interest in being a martyr for any cause. My interest and the reason I like this blog is because I want bw who are open to IR and maybe haven't saw themselves as a potential mate for a non-bm to know that they can find a good and suitable mate and that they deserve one. B/c not only have many bw not see themselves as mate for non-bm, they don't think they are potential mates for any man just have given up on being married at all. I never thought I'd never get married, ever and I want my beautiful nieces to know they can be more than a baby mama/sidepiece for any dang body, they are worth more than that. I want them to know their potential as women. Yes there are all kinds of challenges in life, thinking you're worthy of having a good functional relationship with a man who loves you and that you love shouldn't be one of them.

Elaine: Then you start to over analyze EVERYTHING from your past and what’s going on in your present . . .

lostkitty:
That is what I had been doing ever since I found these BWE/IR blogs less than a year ago: analyzing my past based on what is going on in the present. That can become very depressing, if one is not careful.

Up until I found the BWE blogs, I had always moved on from my many failures and misfortunes (like protracted illnesses that derailed many of my plans), without blaming anything or anyone in particular. After I found the BWE blogs, however, I started reinterpreting all the things that had happened to me and all the decisions that I had made at those particular points in time, especially my interracial relationships with WM.

I am forty years old and I was not aware of some of the stereotypes regarding black women until I read Karyn Folan's book and started visiting BWE websites. Maybe it is because, even though I grew up a black inner city, I was never a part of it socially, like my brothers and sisters (they are all still there and love it). I was a shy, loner type who stayed inside and read books and watched TV. The boys and girls who would have been negative influences did not want to be bothered with me. And I left that all black environment when I was 18 and have never since lived in another one.

There is a lot of anger expressed by the participants (and sometimes the blogger) on some of these blogs. I am not an angry person, so I can't relate. And believe me, I have a lot of things to be angry and bitter about. Life holds no guarantees for anyone. A person can do all the "right" things and still fail. Even though I am not married, I really can't blame stereotypes or WM lack of interest in BW-- I have never had trouble attracting WM, even now that I am older.

Sometimes a person follows a path that does not ultimately lead to her desired destination. That's life--unless you are a soothsayer. Stereotypes, negative indoctrination, a bad childhood or racism are not the invariable causes of bad decisions or undesired outcomes in a particular situation.

At first I liked the BWE blogs, but I now feel that they are just highlighting the dysfunctions and negative aspects of black women. These blogs are broadcasting to the world that black women in America (and other Western countries) are desperate and lonely and do not know how to comport themselves in a nonabrasive, feminine manner. I know that these blogs were meant for black women, but they are revealing to the world that black women need to be overhauled before they can become suitable wife material.

Black women need to stop talking about dating, escaping and improving their lives and just date, escape, and improve their lives. Quietly, like Asian women have done and are doing. And black women also need to stop referring to the black "crabs in a barrel" whom they feel are trying to keep black women down. People have a right to their "negative" opinions. No one can stop a black woman who REALLY wants to climb outside the barrel, short of killing her. Complaining about the lack of support or negative opinions of "crabs" just makes black women look like victims.

Also, just because someone does not "support" or "encourage" a black woman's aspirations does not mean the person wants to undermine her or wish her ill. Other people--including black women--are not obligated to stroke BW's fragile egos. Adult women who need constant validation from others, particularly strangers, are scary to me and I bet they are scary to most men, except the ones who are looking for easy victims.

Lostkitty, I do understand and agree with some of the things you said there. I must say that out of all the BWE blogs out there, I do like this one the most. I do love how this site focuses on black women who are doing amazing things. We have writers, global travelers, lawyers, business women, and etc that have been featured in this blog, and, while I know these women have existed for a while, it's a totally different thing to actually read their stories. A lot of those stories have been truly inspirational for me personally to do what I want to do now. Then you have the No Wedding, No Womb movement, which, regardless of what others have said, is at least trying to bring the OOW issue to the forefront so that we can figure out a solution. I can say with the other BWE, it's a little to "heavy" for me to read. Every time I read a post on the other BWE, I always need to watch an uplifting video afterwards lol. I put those sites on the same level as the people who claim that the Apocalypse is coming, giving their blow by blow report on the how, when, and why. There's not too many inspirational stories, if any at all. Even though those blogs are created with the intent to help black women, I think they really miss the mark with some BW, because the blogs are usually filled with such air of negativity and superiority. For a lack of a better of word, I find those bloggers very annoying lol.

I say all this to say that I think a better approach to BWE is to do positive reinforcement, which is seen more here on BBW than on the others. We need be totally bombarded by positive BW role models, and forget what BM and other men, or even other women for that matter, have said/thought and continue to say about us. Forget the stereotypes, and promote black women to be themselves whether it be the "feminine" woman, the sports fanatic, Sister "Take Charge" (corporate woman), the rocker chick, the quirky book worm, the combo of any of the aforementioned, and etc. Promote the individuality of black women. Again, we aren't a monolithic group. It's time to uplift ourselves without relying on whether so and so outside of the BW community will approve. We don't need anybody's input or permission. We have the right to be who we want to be, just like WW, AW, and HW have that right. This is what needs to be shouted from the rooftops and instilled in black women across this country. Ok rant over lol

Elaine:
I can say with the other BWE, it’s a little to “heavy” for me to read. Every time I read a post on the other BWE, I always need to watch an uplifting video afterward lol.

Even though those blogs are created with the intent to help black women, I think they really miss the mark with some BW, because the blogs are usually filled with such air of negativity and superiority. For a lack of a better of word, I find those bloggers very annoying lol.

lostkitty:
I feel the same way about most of the BWE blogs that I have read. There really is a lot of negativity and air of superiority, even though the blogger/participants may be providing some useful kernels of wisdom. You have to eat some garbage in order to get a few spoonfuls of healthy food. I believe that some of the BWE bloggers are using blogging as a form of psychotherapy. They really are still quite wounded from their life experiences. Of course they may have good intentions, but remember what they say about the road to hell.

I like this blog very much. And I realize that I don't need to agree with everyone's viewpoint in order to appreciate it. There is no way that even black women from the same family can have exact life experiences, let alone all black women in America or the West. My not experiencing something does not invalidate the experience of someone who has.

In addition, my sharing an experience or fact that someone may interpret as negative does not mean that I am trying to discourage her from following a particular path. For example, if I tell someone that it is freezing outside, does that mean I am admonishing that person to stay inside? I don't think so. A person who is emotionally unhealthy, however--as are some of these BWE bloggers and blog participants--may interpret it to mean that she is being discouraged from going outside. I personally would evaluate the statement to see whether it applies to me; if I am dressed for the freezing cold, than I will go outside. If I am not, then I will add the appropriate articles of clothing in order to keep from freezing. I would not become angry at the person for telling me something that I did not want to hear.

Also, there is no way that we as black women are going to thrive in a world that is doing nothing to make life easy for us if we cannot take constructive criticism or allow un-constructive criticism to roll off our backs. We cannot expect to get through life by trying to silence other black people with labels such as "hater", "crab in the barrel" or any of the other labels that many BWE bloggers like to append to people whom they believe don't support black women.

Your posts are well-written, reasonable and very perceptive. I love your "cold weather" analogy. I too feel that a lot of posters get angry when others point out facts that they don't want to hear and then label them as "trolls", "haters" and decide that that person is out to discourage black women.

I wasn't going to respond to you (out of fear of being called one of the "angry women on BWE blogs") but I really don't care what you think.

First off LK, you need to understand something. There are plenty of BW who appreciate and have benefited off of the FREE information on how we can better our lives as women, open our minds and break free from the chains of mental enslavement that the black community has instilled in MOST AA women. And that information (whether you find it uplifting, negative or whatever) is coming from BLACK WOMEN who feel they want to do their part in bringing forth the issues that AA women face. If you have a problem with the blogger, issues they tackle and the participants its as easy as not clicking on the link to the blog.

How dare you come here on a BWE platform and talk down about most of the bloggers and their participants who ARE getting something out of them. If you aren't and its made your life WORSE then leave. its simple.

You have audacity as well to talk about negativity. In almost every post you make, you are crowing about how "old" you are at 40. I find that negative and not uplifting and angry personally. Maybe YOU need to realize that some women participants that you "deem angry" might be those same women who are 40+ and don't feel their life has ended. So you may wanna check you "negativity" at the door first.

If you somehow escaped indoctrination as a AA women - GOOD FOR YOU. But you do have some gall coming to a BWE forum claiming to "eat some garbage to get a few spoonfuls of healthy" and my question to you is WHY even bother? How insulting that comment is to all or most of the BW who come to these forums as a community and further more insulting to the BWE bloggers who are actually TRYING to do something.
No one should internalize “garbage” nor should they go to places where they feel they have to sift through “garbage” to find something good.

What are you doing to try to empower BW? How dare you sit on your keyboard typing all of what you find so unappealing about most BWE blogs and such. You stated in your previous post that BW should just stop talking and doing. Maybe you should heed your own advice. Stop talking down about blogs that you obviously can't stop coming to, but find are not serving any real purpose b/c the bloggers and participants are dealing with issues. SO WHAT! Its their blog and they can talk about whatever they choose. And so what if its psychotherapy for them. THEY started a blog for a reason and purpose. If its to hash out their own anger, issues and such then ITS THIER BLOG AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO IT. You have no right to insult them for why and what they are doing - especially if you HAVE NOT DONE NOR are doing ANYTHING to empower BW.

I am REALY offended by your comments about BWE bloggers. No one is perfect but they are TRYING to do something. that’s more than what a lot of folks who bitch and complain about them are doing.

I keep thinking this person will just go away but they won't, what is that about?

Elaine like you I believe in subtle flirting, I do not however believe in being overt with men and we all know the difference. And I wouldn't if I were a woman ask for a man's phone number, that puts all the responsibility for asking for the date on you and even if you gave him your number, he doesn't have to call b/c he knows you have his and eventually with a lot of women we start doing the work. We don't want to rejected so we call to ask why hasn't he called and such and it's all downhill from there.

Elaine, okay, just putting that out there. I surely wouldn't suggest "spitting game" at a guy or otherwise being very obvious. :)

Hi Alee! I was the person who asked the question. Thanks for sharing your story and congrats!

I agree with Elaine though... I totally AGREE with your approach and consider that flirting, not pursuing. I've done the exact same thing and gotten dates that way... simply striking up a conversation with a man I found interesting instead of waiting for him to do it. I definitely agree that more BW should be open to doing that!

But I wasn't going to ask them out on dates, buy them drinks and GO AFTER THEM, as has been suggested by a few people here. Whenever I followed your approach, I found that the man was glad to talk to me and then HE went and asked me out after that.

I find that whenever this conversation comes up on any BW-oriented board, signals get crossed a little bit. I don't think anyone is against a BW starting a conversation with a man or flirting. When I think of the word "approach," I'm looking at it in a totally different context... as in, the BW is the aggressor from beginning to end... not merely the one who starts the conversation and then lets the man pick up from there.

Bunny77,

Okay, thanks. Some women give me the "eye" when they ask who approached first and I tell them I did. They say they would never do that: the guy has to approach them first. So just checking.

Alee,

I think your approach is perfect. There are ways women can subtly get things moving without coming off as desperate and masculine.

that's smart and the natural way of doing it.

I have to disagree that white men are color-blind like you say. I am dark-skinned, and short of standing on my head reciting poetry or sending up a flare, I cannot get any white guys to even look at me. I think white men are just as colorist as black men.

Hmmm. I'm very dark, and have never lacked for attention from white men, including my steady boo now. And I know some of the other women on this blog have said they're dark-skinned, too. They seem to do okay in that area, too. And, if you look at Evia's Interracial Marriage blog, where she has engagement announements and marriage announcements from the NYTimes, a lot of those sistas are very dark, and they're marrying white men.

I'm not saying this to be mean or catty, but could there be other reasons why you're not getting the play from white guys that you want?

Focusing on the one thing you have no control over seems like the easy excuse. Again, not to be a non-supportive bitch, but you must have noticed that being dark has not slowed the rest of us down one single bit in terms of actualizing IR dating.

Just sayin'.

Regardless, I wish you the best in that area. I hope you're able to realize your goals as far as dating out. I hope this lands on your end as helpful, not mean or mean-spirited.

lol, I agree. White men have no problem approaching, dating and marrying black women as long she's willing and attractive. The idea of being color stuck is something we non-white people are obsess with for various reasons. To most white people, a black person is just that whether we are Halle Berry or Naomi Campbell shade.

Vance, thanks for writing.

I've been a black woman for 33 years (lol) and honestly, I never knew that black women were considered unfeminine either until other black people told me that.

While I think it's good that I received an education when I was older (in college) about historical stereotypes of black women, I have to say that I think the black community (women included) saddled me with baggage as a young adult that I didn't need to have. I grew up in a majority black city and attended majority black schools and NEVER knew about Mammy/Jezebel stereotypes, BW being considered "mules of the world," being seen as unfeminine, etc.

This was stuff I "learned" in college... thank goodness I had a strong foundation before I went to school, but suddenly, in college, I was feeling the weight of all these stereotypes that I never knew existed! Here I was talking with other black women about our burdens, etc... when I never experienced them!!!

That's one reason why I had to STOP reading Essence after a while... every time a writer said, "As black women, we often face XYZ," I'd think to myself, "Really? Since when?" I was tired of a magazine geared toward black women giving me a negative complex about being a black woman!!!

So... I guess I'm saying that while I appreciate Sophia's work (I LOVE her as a writer) and that of others, I sometimes wonder if focusing on a past that many of us have not necessarily lived as BW today is a positive thing... just thinking out loud.

Agreed...I was blissfully clueless until my foray into the blogosphere. I hen started to see all this foolishness. I do wonder sometimes how much perception drives reality.

*this

Lol, *then. Sorry, I just woke from a nap after pulling an all-nighter doing work. My brain is still sort of scrambled.