“White Men Best Natural Allies in Battle to Counter Negative Misconceptions of Black Women,” Says Oakland Rainbeau

“White Men Best Natural Allies in Battle to Counter Negative Misconceptions of Black Women,” Says Oakland Rainbeau

From “Paul in Oakland”l–”From a personal perspective, I have recently looked beyond myth and stereotype and have discovered that BW are incredible, remarkable and beautiful. Yet, as a group, BW are too often physically abused, disrespected, socially limited and under-appreciated. Beauty is meant to be appreciated. It is a crime the beauty of BW has been made socially invisible to a large segment of our culture — and even to them. To the extent I failed to perceive this beauty in the past, my bad.”

Author : ** Guest Author **

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You might remember the video I posted last week featuring the unseen white guy who commented at a SWIRLING event Janice and I attended hosted by Meet Up group, Sisters With White Misters. That voice belonged to a guy named Paul. He was tickled to know he made it on to the video, but wanted to expand on his thoughts to share with all of you. Below is an unedited note from him to me that he asked that I pass on to this community.

——————————————

Paul (from Oakland CA)

As the (unseen) male voice on the video, I’d like to add a few comments.  For those of us who are relatively new to interracial dating (less than a year), learning the social cues/values of another race can take some time.  (Especially for white men who may have little experience with the culture of black women.)  However, as a white male, I personally find that learning about black women has been very rewarding.  This is a thought I’d like to see more white men discover.  

Why?

From a personal perspective, I have recently looked beyond myth and stereotype and have discovered that black women are incredible, remarkable and beautiful.  Yet, as a group, black women are too often physically abused, disrespected, socially limited and under-appreciated.  Beauty is meant to be appreciated. It is a crime the beauty of black women has been made socially invisible to a large segment of our culture — and even to them.  To the extent I failed to perceive this beauty in the past, my bad.

From a practical perspective, white men are the best natural allies in the battle to counter the negative misconceptions of black women.   Why?  Black men and white women might think they benefit from the existing misconceptions.  (Actually they don’t, but that is another matter.)  Thus, even if the majority of black men and white women are supportive of treating black women with equal respect (including the right to engage in interracial dating between white men and black women), there are still too many who are secretly (or even openly) hostile to the idea of a white man even paying attention to a black woman.  However, there is no advantage for white men (a statistically large segment of society) to perpetuate the prejudice that prevents everyone from seeing black women as being beautiful and valuable. In fact, their failure to appreciate black women is their own loss.     

From a social justice perspective, every group should be “allowed” and encouraged to view black women as beautiful, valuable and desirable.  Prejudice and social stereotypes that “limit” expression, care, concern and love for black women is wrong — and it has many negative consequences.  It is a sad truth that violence against black women is largely ignored.  Maybe it is ignored by different people for different reasons, but it would not be ignored if black women were truly appreciated by all.  Even if black women recognize their own value, they will suffer so long as their value can only be appreciated by some black men  — and then hidden away from all others.   

Of course, to do this, white men and black men must overcome the prejudice and hate that arises when a white man and black woman break stereo-type to discover and appreciate each other as individuals.  This will be a new experience for many white men.  When I was yelled at for holding hands with a black woman, I was surprised. (I do not have much experience in being the subject of a racial attack.)  She was not surprised —She was pissed because she was sick and tired of receiving this kind of abuse! I got a glimpse of her world, yet I still have much to learn.  

But even though interracial dating might not always be easy, it is worth it.  Breaking down the barriers of racial prejudice is a noble and worthy cause — especially when coupled with the prospect of a “happily-ever-after” ending for two people.  Go find your love!

Interracial dating between all races is an idea whose time has come. March on!

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Joyce345 1751 pts

Very interesting analysis Paul. Bw, more than anyone else are in dire need of strategic alliances. I would prefer to expand this analysis to say that a bw should vet all people individually because allies can be white men, white women or any other fair minded person.

 

This reminds me of a friend I had in a Kenyan primary school. She was a white girl called Eva. She was the only white girl in the whole school. Prior to her arrival, the Indian kids picked the black kids. They picked on me the most because I was the darkest. They said I was dirty, like my color was supposed to wash off or something.

 

Anywho, Eva arrived and suddenly ALL the Indian girls wanted to be close to her. Eva and I became best of friends and this forced the Indian kids to show me respect. The weird thing is, she didn't even have to fight for me actively.

 

I believe marriage to a white man can be one such strategic alliance for bw.

 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 Joyce345  Your story of making just one friend highlights the power of a single connection   Her friendship with you was probably a positive for her as well. And while marriage may be the goal for some, friendship is the first step. 

Joyce345 1751 pts

 Oaktown Paul  

You are right that marriage is just one of many alliances. any fair minded person can be an ally.

ELLE ROCHELLE 141 pts

Hi Paul, 

Just read your post and I do understand and even agree with your POV.  I have all kinds of allies in my circle and do welcome more very positive piece.  Thanks for sharing. 

uninterracial 987 pts

So much I want to say, so much I can’t say, but I will ask this: why can’t we as black women be each other’s allies in elevating our reputation? I know, I know the white male power patriarchy speech (I’ve heard enough about it in my Women’s Studies courses) – they started it. IMO, they are NOT going to stop it. A few WM here or there may feel the way Paul may feel, but I’m sorry, this will not be at the top of their priority list and that’s just real. Trust, if Mitt wins tomorrow night, forget it, no one is going to care. Look, people in general are sick of black people complaining about everything and asking someone else to remedy it. I guess men like Paul can try to reach out to other WM and tell them, “Hey, they’re not so bad, they’re great.”, but the reality is what they SEE counts more than anything.  The loudmouths, 4-5 babydaddy having, overweight obese, obviously fake hair, fake nails wearing women, that is what they see. Now, you may not fit that profile but to them, you are a needle in a haystack. Black women need to be mentors to other black females before they become women. We need to elevate ourselves and not look to others to help BW be more appealing to the masses; only we can do that.

heyimPearlilikefries 2128 pts

 uninterracial  Fake nails aren't bad... but seeing them on women like that make them seem bad. 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 astringofpearls  uninterracial    BW helping BW to elevating themselves is great.  Nothing wrong with that. But I do not agree with the idea that concepts of "Male Patriarchy" should cause you to exclude WM from your group of friends / potential allies.

 

Why? 

 

A good male friend can do much more than "reach out to other WM and tell them, “Hey, they’re not so bad, they’re great.” 

 

What a strong male friend can do for you is this: Walk up to any other male in a room and say "Hey, how are you doing .Blah, blah, blah..... --- BTW this is my [BW] friend, she is awesome, she is great / so much fun because .blah blah blah .... !!!! And, if this not work the first time, he can repeat this conversation as often as necessary.

 

This is not a complicated skill, and you can do the same for him.

 

However, while an racially mixed introduction is pretty simple, it carries many positive messages.

(1) I like this person --- of a different race,

(2) She is obviously willing to talk to white guys (cause she's talking to me) and

(3) I am validating the possibility of IRD. 

 

If a white man is a  "friend" / Ally he will probably do this for you. (Some men will be better at this than others.) Why? WM are generally not that territorial. If I'm not dating a gal, I'm happy to see her with someone else.

 

And maybe you can introduce a WM to one of your friends. This is just friends helping friends find friends. That is the natural alliance of which I speak. 

 

Forget theory, history and social constructs ---- and just go out and make one connection at a time.         

 

dani-BBW 1840 pts

 Oaktown Paul   Someone on here did this, last year. She got engaged and moved to Oakland I think. She and her SO hosted a couple of dinner parties where she invited some of her BW friends and her guy his WM friends. There were a couple of connections too. Darn, what was her name? It's not Browncow, but something similar.

uninterracial 987 pts

 Oaktown Paul   Hi Paul, I'm was born and raised in SF just so you know what mindset I'm coming from. I brought up Male Patriarchy because I didn't want someone replying to me giving me the rundown how it works. Heard enough of it in college, done with it. Anyway,  I have introduced my husbands friends to my black friends but the long distance thing (Central Valley/SF) doesn't really work out too well. Trust me I know. What I'm saying is that's it great you want to spread the word, but your word alone will not help the cause if we don't help you in the process. Understand, I'm not attacking you, but what you do, or want to do, simply is not enough. We as black women have got to get ourselves in check before ANYBODY sees us as potential mates. Right now, we are not there.

NoDramaCiCi 365 pts

 Oaktown Paul   astringofpearls  uninterracial

 Random thought...I heard a "relationship expert" say that a woman should go to a party and flirt with the ugliest guy there. This way all the other men see her and know that she is available (possibly desparate) to date and open to flirting. Then more men will come up to her to flirt.

 

Lol...I dont know why your racially mixed introduction reminded me of that.

onmywayup 1919 pts

 NoDramaCiCi  Oaktown Paul   astringofpearls  uninterracial Wow...that sounds like advice I would never take! I don't want any dude thinking I'm desperate...eww.

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@uninterracial @Oaktown Paul why do one thing, why do as many things as possible. Why is it always either/or? Why not do what you both suggested and some other stuff suggested on here too. Cover the board, that's not a bad thing. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

MercedesHasLeftTheBuilding 1090 pts

 dani-BBW  Oaktown Paul  

 

i believe her name was QueenBee?

NewMaya3 357 pts

 uninterracial  Oaktown Paul

 We as black women have got to get ourselves in check before ANYBODY sees us as potential mates. Right now, we are not there.

 

There are a LOT more black women who have it going on than is seen in the media.  They are just not pushed to the front stage.  The Basketball Wives are not going to change neither is NeNe. I was appalled that she is on the cover of Ebony.   However, just because these types of women exist does not mean that the rest of us should not be acknowledged.  Another big problem with black women and your comments reminded me is that there is a lot of self hatred among SOME black women and I am certainly not one of them.   I love black women and I want the REST of us to be acknowledged because the negative ones always will be.

 

Who are you (and I mean this in the most respectful way) to declare that because there are SOME black women who wear fake hair, nails, have babies out of wedlock , etc, etc. to say that until we fix these problems the black women that have it going on dont deserve to be acknowledged?  So accomplished, educated, classy, worldly, progressive, black women should be held back until ALL black women get it together.  With all due respect...that sounds nuts :)

NewMaya3 357 pts

 dani-BBW  Oaktown Paul

 I think that I am going to do the same thing.  I think that I want to have a couple of dinner parties at my house with some white guys and black girls and see  what happens.....

NewMaya3 357 pts

 uninterracial  Oaktown Paul

 

That's just like some black guys stating that because there are so many dead beat dads, black men in jail, black men who trail in education and black men who dont treat women well that black men should not be seen as potential mates or aligned with white women.   That is a just crazy !!!  You sound like you are really hard on black women. 

 
uninterracial 987 pts

 NewMaya3  Oaktown Paul Don't get it twisted Miss Maya, I love my sisters AND my brothers. "Self-Hate" is so overused. I guess since I married to a white man I hate myself even more, right? Whatever. Those indeed are still MY people no matter how you slice it, I just want them to do better. What with the self-hate nonsense with all due respect? I don't hate myself or am prejudice against black women. Look up the definition before you go there.

 

If you feel that I'm being hard, I'm sorry, but coddling usually doesn't work. I don't know if you've noticed. When you want something to change, you can't be passive, you got to get in there and tell the truth!  Hasn't Chris been doing this? Does she suffer from self-hate as well? Women have to be responsible for themselves.

 

As far as imagery, unfortunately the community in which I'm from this is what you see. Oh, and the media doesn't help. They push this image to the forefront to let the general public know this is all we are when we are not. So back to what I was saying, we have alot of work to do. As long as these images persist, "...accomplished, educated, classy, worldly, progressive, black women" WILL be overlooked, held back, you name it. You know what they say, one bad apple...

NewMaya3 357 pts

 Oaktown Paul    

Forget theory, history and social constructs ---- and just go out and make one connection at a time.

 

Paul, you are awesome!  Thanks! 

 
uninterracial 987 pts

 astringofpearls Okay, point taken. My aunt wears them too, but I mean the really garish ones. Yikes!!

heyimPearlilikefries 2128 pts

 uninterracial  Yeah they make them look awful! But I have seen ones that are really classy and neat, so it's not impossible... they are actually.. doing it on... purpose *cringe* lol

eugeniaberg 7245 pts moderator

@astringofpearls @uninterracial I wear acrylic nails myself, they're over my real nails but if you ever watch my vlogs I got them on surprisingly even for me I get nothing but compliments about my nails from the vlog and in real life. I like them it's the only pampering I really enjoy doing for myself and everything else on me is conservative so it's hoot when ppl notice my nails, it's just different from my entire look.

Statuesque 2069 pts

I liked and agree with what Paul had to say.  Regardless of whatever system or pecking order was created by White men in previous generations, it is up to current day White men to change the paradigm for themselves. This is what Paul has done in his realization that he's actually allowed to be with whomever he pleases, and this new option for love and romance is available to him.  Didn't many of us come to the same conclusion?  

 

I thought the insights around the WM-BW alliance piece were spot on.  I have heard it said many times that Black men and White women are on different but equal footing (he's dinged because he's Black, she's dinged because she is a woman).  In a way there is a commiseration there, if you will, of being similarly shut out. There is no commiseration aspect with the WM-BW pairing.  I happen to think the "natural" part of this is the potential

 

Given the trends in upward mobility among a large segment of Black women, why wouldn't upwardly mobile or successful White men notice these women in their midst and discover advantages to dating and marrying them? These men aren't actually marrying down and uplifting a woman when they choose intelligent, dynamic, supportive and loving Black women, but they are openly rejecting a standard for their behavior that was vehemently enforced for hundreds of years in this country:  No legitimizing and consecrating relationships with Black women allowed.  There is no power structure resting on slavery or Jim Crow to maintain, but there are plenty of people whose mentalities prop it up overtly or subconsciously.

 

Not every White guy who dates Black women will think like Paul, and not every Black women will cosign his thoughts.  This notion of representation (I hope) will start to fade away.

 

 

Statuesque 2069 pts

Jeez, sorry for the typos.  

 

"I happen to think that the 'natural' part of this is the potential for two individuals to get together even though others don't think it makes sense."

 

"...not every Black woman will cosign his thoughts."

dani-BBW 1840 pts

Kind of late to the party but I finally got to read the post and all of the comments. To me, it's really just a guy's macro view on relationships between black women and white men. For example, "learning the social cues/values of another race can take some time," "black women are incredible, remarkable and beautiful...beauty is meant to be appreciated but a large segment of the population has been made invisible," "white men continuing to perpetuate prejudices that keep BW invisible is WM's own loss," "Prejudice and social stereotypes that “limit” expression, care, concern and love for black women is wrong — and it has many negative consequences...violence against black women is largely ignored." I don't have a problem with any of this.

 

Maybe the headline is what got people riled up? There isn't very much about how WM are best allies for BW but rather more of what the benefits would be for WM to ally for BW. Perhaps a better one would be "For WM by WM: Failing to see the beauty of BW is your loss (and contributes to social injustice)."

 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 dani-BBW Dani_BBW   Very Astute Observation!  I agree that your proposed title better reflects the intent of the author. As originally submitted, I did not provide a title.  

Jamila 7701 pts moderator

 Oaktown Paul   dani-BBW Christelyn creates really get titles that get people talking. :) 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 Jamila  dani-BBW  I agree. Generating a discussion is more important that the post itself.

dani-BBW 1840 pts

JamilaOaktown Paul  She does! I am not blessed 

 with that talent however, so I will defer to Chris in all of her marketing/PR wisdom!

 

Jamila 7701 pts moderator

 Oaktown Paul   dani-BBW Egads, I hate when I see that I made a typo but people have already 'liked' the comment so I don't want to erase it. 

 

*great*, not *get*

Bren82 1395 pts

"From a social justice perspective, every group should be “allowed” and encouraged to view black women as beautiful, valuable and desirable. Prejudice and social stereotypes that “limit” expression, care, concern and love for black women is wrong — and it has many negative consequences. It is a sad truth that violence against black women is largely ignored. Maybe it is ignored by different people for different reasons, but it would not be ignored if black women were truly appreciated by all". Totally agree with this. Opened minds open eyes.

DeepWater 2519 pts

Y'all (mods) are quick on the draw, he'll show his hand soon enough.  

 

NewMaya3 357 pts

There is one important thing that has not been stated here.  How do you think that black men's image has pretty much come up since Obama was elected.  You see white women as the wives of black men REGULARLY in commercials.  You see white women as the love interest of black men on prime time shows REGULARLY.  You see about 3 or 4 reality shows with black men and white women couples REGULARLY.  Want to know why?  Because white women have become allies for black men.  I notice that from the Hood Rat black guy to the Sophisticated Businessman, they realize this and that is pretty much why more black men more than ever show their ass.  White women have MADE them mainstream.  They have MADE them acceptable.  That is why black men are having an easier time right now than black women are. 

 

Kelly Ripa is a big black man ally.  She got Michael Strahan in and every middle aged white woman (at home) in America is watching ABC at 8:59 am.  They are collectively successfully uplifting black men while pacifying white men at the same time.  They are playing both sides of the fence but they are definite allies to black men and that is why you see that change in attitude with black men collectively.  Now even if some white men become allies for us, there are some black women that are so far gone, they wont know how to take advantage of it.

 

What we are sitting here arguing about, going back and forth about is actually happening between white women and black men.  Now even with that black men still screw up when they get with white women but that is another story.  They screw up but they at least know that white women are their allies and they actually play both sides of the fence also (at the least the ones who care).  The other black men could care less about black women and dont play both sides of the fence.

 

Black women seem to catch onto things real slow but what we are arguing about with each other is successfully going on between white women and black men.  Only black women would not screw up with white men like black men are screwing up.

CherieMaria 838 pts

We do catch on too slow. When it comes to image, you either sink or swim. Either you are going to use the advantages to social come ups or you are not. We are so busy trying to be fair and moral and  not to offend anyone that we reject those that look to lift up black women specifically. Could this be part of the reason why we have other types of men afraid to vouch for us? You are right, white women are black men's allies. And it did not come with a question of who, what, why? Other races of women come to their defense (the ones who date them) and vise versa, in a minute. We have to give a man a whole survey of questions before he qualifies to help us out. Us black women seem so focused on finding something wrong rather than lifting our social status, which would be beneficial to us. I have seen it before with black women telling non black men they have to be fair to other women as far as them preferring us in terms of looks and potential partners. We shoot ourselves in the foot...

onmywayup 1919 pts

 CherieMaria Yes, I agree about some black women trying to be fair to the non-black women. What is that mess?  Do they think that the non-black women are being "fair" with them?  As someone who knows white, Latina, and Asian women who are not afraid to date, mate, and marry black men (everyone else be danged)...I know that this whole fairness thing is hurting us.  I mean, seriously! I'm all for being nice, but self-preservation is necessary!

MySmile 4282 pts

 onthewaydown  CherieMaria Well, for me personally..I guess I've had bad experiences with men who only like bw or made a super duper huge deal out of me being black....they were more of the wigger types .and acted very similar to dbr black men... or they "othered" me and expected me to fit certain stereotypes.....but I'm trying not to be so quick to judge. I don't feel like we have to necessarily be "fair" but I don't feel as though this is a competition and I don't feel as though someone should feel obligated to put down white women to sort of "justify" dating me...if you get my drift. If they really feel a certain way, then okay.... I'm not uplifting anyone else, I'm just saying that I don't feel as though by a guy also being into ww that's it's a threat or something, unless he puts them on pedestal over everyone else (then he can have his perfect little white princess lol..next!) ...Viewing ww as competition is not helping me get any dates...and dating guys who also like ww has not been much of a problem for me...

onmywayup 1919 pts

 MySmile  CherieMaria Oh yeah, I definitely agree with you there.  I was not really thinking about those kinds of men...I was more thinking of the kind who primarily date black women because they are more attracted to them.  Like there are some who just prefer darker skin, etc. Anyway, I personally am not all that competitive, so  I have no problem with a man who likes other types of women as well as black women.  (Though when he's with me, I should be number 1! Lol.)

 

However, I am not going to go out of my way to tell someone who prefers black women to date other women if that's not what they want...I would be equally insulted if someone told me to date a certain race or type of guy to "be fair."  What I am attracted to is what I am attracted to, and it may not be fair...but I am sure there is someone else for that particular person.

 

I'm also not a fan of the men who put other races of women down, or think that just because I am black that I have to behave a certain way. 

DeepWater 2519 pts

 NewMaya3  Sidebar here:

 

"How do you think that black men's image has pretty much come up since Obama was elected."

 

Well, to me, the man is just pure tastiness.   Foine, foine, and foine.   Shole would like a "ride" with him on Air Force One, mmmm, hmmm, shole would (bwwwaaaahhhaaaa, mile high fo' real)  

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/obama-leather-bomber-jacket_n_2058322.html

Brenda55 20995 pts moderator

I have a question.  I this just an honest difference of opinion or some new troll tactic where we slice the mountain oysters off of any guy who wander into this space?

Jamila 7701 pts moderator

Brenda55

For me it was just an honest difference of opinion. I think that the poster below who used the term "negress" in her reply to something Paul said was probably being overly sensitive. 

 

However, reading this thread has made me think that perhaps there are some of us here who feel that we have to fall all over ourselves to make this a comfortable space for white men. I'm a moderator and regular writer of posts here--sometimes people vociferously disagree with me, sometimes they give me virtual high-fives because they think something I said was great, sometimes a person will hate what I say in one post and love what I say in the next.

 

Why would any guest poster come here and expect--and/or why would the rest of us expect--to find no disagreement to anything he or she said? Did Paul even think that every poster was going to say, "Wow, that was the greatest thing ever!" *drops mic, walks off stage*

 

While I'm glad that Paul is here, I'm not going to give him any more special treatment or leeway that I would extend to anyone else.

 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 Jamila  Brenda55 I expect no special treatment, nor do I want universal praise. And, if I have the time, I am quite willing to stick up for my self. The most gratifying part of my writing the article is that it has sparked conversation and debate.  The worst would have been silence --- as if I were being ignored. So debate on, I view your willingness to participate in the discussion as a positive --- even if we disagree.

Jamila 7701 pts moderator

@Oaktown Paul @Brenda55

 

 Thank you Paul, and once again, I really am glad you're here and taking the time to have this discussion with us. I'm definitely not attacking you, just disagreeing with some of the ideas--most of them not even presented by you--that seem to be floating around on this thread. 

Oaktown Paul 859 pts

 Jamila  Brenda55  Receiving mixed messages/ is not a bad thing.  Maybe some people think a man should be strong enough to withstand the rough and tumble that goes on inside of this site.  Hence, no special treatment. Others might consider a rather rude hello.  I can see the perceived merit of both perspectives. I now feel welcomed, and I know that others wlill take me to task if need be. That's fair enough for me.          .  .

ASwirlGirl 3225 pts

 Brenda55 I don't think it's necessarily a new troll tactic, but I do believe some BW need to stop being so sensitive, already. Gee whiz. We say we want more men to come on the boards and participate by sharing their opinions and experiences, yet it almost seems like heaven needs to help them if they do. 

NewMaya3 357 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Brenda55

 Black women are rough.  White women are black men's allies and they just love it!

Jamila 7701 pts moderator

 NewMaya3  ASwirlGirl  Brenda55 Thank you D.L. Hughley for that wonderful public service announcement! 

PamelaFoster 665 pts

 Jamila  dang girl you going hard today :))    

 
DeepWater 2519 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Brenda55  Well, ASG, Black women and our images have and continue to deal with bs on the daily, so bs detector is turned up on the dial to Def Con Red Alert when folk are "new" here and (may be) coming up with ever new ways to "control" our thoughts and feelings on interracial relationships / marriage / family / and as a whole women within the so-called "Black Identity".

ASwirlGirl 3225 pts

 DeepWater  Brenda55 I get that, but also remember the context from which Oaktown Paul  's post stemmed from. He was the speaker we couldn't see in the video Christelyn   posted from the Swirling event. He had some great things to say in that setting, and he just expanded on them in a note to Chris. There isn't a devil behind *every* stump. Sure, my radar is up - but I don't keep mine at Def Con Red Alert level. LOL!

DeepWater 2519 pts

 ASwirlGirl  Brenda55  Oaktown Paul   Christelyn    Bwwwwaaaahhhhaaaa.   I feel you though, no there isn't a "devil behind every stump", true that.   Well, Def Con Red Alert is a tad bit extreme, I'm just sayin.......lol......I can read between the lines pretty well so when I see bs I'mma straight up call it for what it is.   That's just me.